The Classical Liberal Enlightenment: A revolution against Big Gov or Small Gov?

The Classical Liberal Enlightenment: A revolution against Big Gov or Small Gov?


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PaintMyHouse

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...No Worse Enemy
The Founders feared the power of government like they feared that of any group with too much power. Modern Liberals want neither a small government nor a large government, but an effective one that serves the needs of the people. That is where the Founders started as well, even though those included as "people' was not the list that should have been.

You live in a Liberal Nation. If you don't like it, there's the door...
 
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Delta4Embassy

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Dunno what a big government is vs a small one. Might be worth doing to add up how many government employees they are and then comparing that to other countries with similar populations. Maybe our "big government" relative to our population is smaller than others? Or vice-versa.
 

Derideo_Te

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Facts prove that the OP is FOS!

The USA has one of the lowest per capita public sector employment rates in the world. If anything America is already a "small government" nation.



CHART OF THE DAY Guess Which Country Has The Highest Percentage Of Workers Employed By The Government - Business Insider

And those figures are consistent with what we see from 2 decades ago. America was a "small government" nation under Clinton too.

upload_2015-2-14_16-5-0.png


http://www.ilo.org/public/english/bureau/stat/download/wp_pse_e.pdf

So once again the extreme rightwing is pushing yet another bogus fallacy in the OP as a means to bash "liberals".

Chalk it up as yet another EPIC FAIL for the Libertarian Utopians who never allow actual FACTS to get in the way of their chronic ignorance and stupidity.

:lmao:
 

ScienceRocks

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I don't think the op knows what he is attempting to talk about...The enlightenment was against the crown and the say of one or a few men. Pretty much for democracy and the voice of the people.

Having a small government that doesn't invest in our own country is just dumb and has nothing to do with this argument.
 

Clementine

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When I think of big government, it's not the actual number of people but the amount of power they have over the people. What matters is the distribution of power and there is no doubt that too much has shifted from the people to government. The less freedom and liberty for the people, the bigger the power of government. One dictator can have too much power, as in North Korea, Cuba and other crappy countries. Governments there are big in power though small minded.
 

Billy000

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I don't know why these Progressives call themselves "liberals" when they promote the expansion and shackles of Big Gov, the antithesis of the Enlightment.

We should call progressives the "Counter-Enlightenment"
Your poll is extremely vague. Nuance matters. Big government could be totalitarianism which is what virtually zero Americans want. Small government could be borderline anarchy.

Given most American's attitudes, including that of politicians, there is a preference of small government. To me, the idea of a too small of government is just as scary as too big. I want reasonable personal liberties, but I also care about laws and regulations for society and the economy that protects the greater good.
 

norwegen

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I don't think the op knows what he is attempting to talk about...The enlightenment was against the crown and the say of one or a few men. Pretty much for democracy and the voice of the people.

Having a small government that doesn't invest in our own country is just dumb and has nothing to do with this argument.
In America, the Enlightenment was the "say" of an entire country. The DoI and Constitution were products of it.

Government does not invest in a country like the people do.
 

Derideo_Te

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I don't think the op knows what he is attempting to talk about...The enlightenment was against the crown and the say of one or a few men. Pretty much for democracy and the voice of the people.

Having a small government that doesn't invest in our own country is just dumb and has nothing to do with this argument.
In America, the Enlightenment was the "say" of an entire country. The DoI and Constitution were products of it.

Government does not invest in a country like the people do.
It was the government that invested in the Louisana territories. It was the government that invested in the shipping canals. It was the government that invested in the land for the railroads. It was the government that invested in schools and public libraries. It was the government that invested in the electrification of rural areas. It was the government that invested in dams and hydroelectric power. It was the government that invested in the highways and bridges. It was the government that invested in the Internet. It was the government that invested in space exploration. It is the government that is investing in alternate energy just like it invested in nuclear energy.
 

norwegen

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I don't think the op knows what he is attempting to talk about...The enlightenment was against the crown and the say of one or a few men. Pretty much for democracy and the voice of the people.

Having a small government that doesn't invest in our own country is just dumb and has nothing to do with this argument.
In America, the Enlightenment was the "say" of an entire country. The DoI and Constitution were products of it.

Government does not invest in a country like the people do.
It was the government that invested in the Louisana territories. It was the government that invested in the shipping canals. It was the government that invested in the land for the railroads. It was the government that invested in schools and public libraries. It was the government that invested in the electrification of rural areas. It was the government that invested in dams and hydroelectric power. It was the government that invested in the highways and bridges. It was the government that invested in the Internet. It was the government that invested in space exploration. It is the government that is investing in alternate energy just like it invested in nuclear energy.
So government invests in a country like the people do?
 

Billy000

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I don't think the op knows what he is attempting to talk about...The enlightenment was against the crown and the say of one or a few men. Pretty much for democracy and the voice of the people.

Having a small government that doesn't invest in our own country is just dumb and has nothing to do with this argument.
In America, the Enlightenment was the "say" of an entire country. The DoI and Constitution were products of it.

Government does not invest in a country like the people do.
It was the government that invested in the Louisana territories. It was the government that invested in the shipping canals. It was the government that invested in the land for the railroads. It was the government that invested in schools and public libraries. It was the government that invested in the electrification of rural areas. It was the government that invested in dams and hydroelectric power. It was the government that invested in the highways and bridges. It was the government that invested in the Internet. It was the government that invested in space exploration. It is the government that is investing in alternate energy just like it invested in nuclear energy.
So government invests in a country like the people do?
You do know the government is run by people right?
 

Derideo_Te

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I don't think the op knows what he is attempting to talk about...The enlightenment was against the crown and the say of one or a few men. Pretty much for democracy and the voice of the people.

Having a small government that doesn't invest in our own country is just dumb and has nothing to do with this argument.
In America, the Enlightenment was the "say" of an entire country. The DoI and Constitution were products of it.

Government does not invest in a country like the people do.
It was the government that invested in the Louisana territories. It was the government that invested in the shipping canals. It was the government that invested in the land for the railroads. It was the government that invested in schools and public libraries. It was the government that invested in the electrification of rural areas. It was the government that invested in dams and hydroelectric power. It was the government that invested in the highways and bridges. It was the government that invested in the Internet. It was the government that invested in space exploration. It is the government that is investing in alternate energy just like it invested in nuclear energy.
So government invests in a country like the people do?
We the People are the government OF the people and FOR the people.
 

norwegen

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I don't think the op knows what he is attempting to talk about...The enlightenment was against the crown and the say of one or a few men. Pretty much for democracy and the voice of the people.

Having a small government that doesn't invest in our own country is just dumb and has nothing to do with this argument.
In America, the Enlightenment was the "say" of an entire country. The DoI and Constitution were products of it.

Government does not invest in a country like the people do.
It was the government that invested in the Louisana territories. It was the government that invested in the shipping canals. It was the government that invested in the land for the railroads. It was the government that invested in schools and public libraries. It was the government that invested in the electrification of rural areas. It was the government that invested in dams and hydroelectric power. It was the government that invested in the highways and bridges. It was the government that invested in the Internet. It was the government that invested in space exploration. It is the government that is investing in alternate energy just like it invested in nuclear energy.
So government invests in a country like the people do?
We the People are the government OF the people and FOR the people.
Got ya'.

It was the people that invested in the Louisana territories. It was the people that invested in the shipping canals. It was the people that invested in the land for the railroads. It was the people that invested in schools and public libraries. It was the people that invested in the electrification of rural areas. It was the people that invested in dams and hydroelectric power. It was the people that invested in the highways and bridges. It was the people that invested in the Internet. It was the people that invested in space exploration. It is the people that is investing in alternate energy just like it invested in nuclear energy.
 

Derideo_Te

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I don't think the op knows what he is attempting to talk about...The enlightenment was against the crown and the say of one or a few men. Pretty much for democracy and the voice of the people.

Having a small government that doesn't invest in our own country is just dumb and has nothing to do with this argument.
In America, the Enlightenment was the "say" of an entire country. The DoI and Constitution were products of it.

Government does not invest in a country like the people do.
It was the government that invested in the Louisana territories. It was the government that invested in the shipping canals. It was the government that invested in the land for the railroads. It was the government that invested in schools and public libraries. It was the government that invested in the electrification of rural areas. It was the government that invested in dams and hydroelectric power. It was the government that invested in the highways and bridges. It was the government that invested in the Internet. It was the government that invested in space exploration. It is the government that is investing in alternate energy just like it invested in nuclear energy.
So government invests in a country like the people do?
We the People are the government OF the people and FOR the people.
Got ya'.

It was the people that invested in the Louisana territories. It was the people that invested in the shipping canals. It was the people that invested in the land for the railroads. It was the people that invested in schools and public libraries. It was the people that invested in the electrification of rural areas. It was the people that invested in dams and hydroelectric power. It was the people that invested in the highways and bridges. It was the people that invested in the Internet. It was the people that invested in space exploration. It is the people that is investing in alternate energy just like it invested in nuclear energy.
In which case why don't you extrapolate that back to the OP?

It is the people who decide what we want our own government to do and what size it needs to be to make that happen.

And since the people come in all political persuasions the government we have reflects all of the things we want it to do. So the liberals want affordable healthcare and the conservatives want an unaffordable defense department. We the People just have to pay for both of those things and that means that we need to raise taxes in order to afford them.

This is not rocket science.
 

regent

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It is not the size of government that implies an ideology but what the government does.
 

Billy000

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I don't think the op knows what he is attempting to talk about...The enlightenment was against the crown and the say of one or a few men. Pretty much for democracy and the voice of the people.

Having a small government that doesn't invest in our own country is just dumb and has nothing to do with this argument.
In America, the Enlightenment was the "say" of an entire country. The DoI and Constitution were products of it.

Government does not invest in a country like the people do.
It was the government that invested in the Louisana territories. It was the government that invested in the shipping canals. It was the government that invested in the land for the railroads. It was the government that invested in schools and public libraries. It was the government that invested in the electrification of rural areas. It was the government that invested in dams and hydroelectric power. It was the government that invested in the highways and bridges. It was the government that invested in the Internet. It was the government that invested in space exploration. It is the government that is investing in alternate energy just like it invested in nuclear energy.
So government invests in a country like the people do?
We the People are the government OF the people and FOR the people.
Got ya'.

It was the people that invested in the Louisana territories. It was the people that invested in the shipping canals. It was the people that invested in the land for the railroads. It was the people that invested in schools and public libraries. It was the people that invested in the electrification of rural areas. It was the people that invested in dams and hydroelectric power. It was the people that invested in the highways and bridges. It was the people that invested in the Internet. It was the people that invested in space exploration. It is the people that is investing in alternate energy just like it invested in nuclear energy.
Um yeah and his point is those investments were not private, for-profit investments. They were investments for the welfare of the society.
 

ScienceRocks

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We pay taxes for the government to maintain our roads, bridges and police!
We pay taxes for the government to invest in our country.

I wouldn't want your idea of small government...As it is just useless and stupid.
 

ScienceRocks

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I don't think the op knows what he is attempting to talk about...The enlightenment was against the crown and the say of one or a few men. Pretty much for democracy and the voice of the people.

Having a small government that doesn't invest in our own country is just dumb and has nothing to do with this argument.
In America, the Enlightenment was the "say" of an entire country. The DoI and Constitution were products of it.

Government does not invest in a country like the people do.
It was the government that invested in the Louisana territories. It was the government that invested in the shipping canals. It was the government that invested in the land for the railroads. It was the government that invested in schools and public libraries. It was the government that invested in the electrification of rural areas. It was the government that invested in dams and hydroelectric power. It was the government that invested in the highways and bridges. It was the government that invested in the Internet. It was the government that invested in space exploration. It is the government that is investing in alternate energy just like it invested in nuclear energy.
So government invests in a country like the people do?
The government is the people. lol
 

Derideo_Te

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We the People are the government OF the people and FOR the people.
Then why are Progressives like you so upset and trying to change the government? Apparently this government is by and for the people, so the status quo must be what the people want.

Ironic!

It is regressive libertarian utopians like you who are "trying to change the government".
 

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