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The "Catholic" Conundrum

DGS49

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The Pennsylvania State Legislature is figuratively patting itself on the back these days because it passed a law that will give victims of long-ago priestly sexual abuse the right to sue today, and still collect money damages.

Pennsylvania ends future child sex abuse charges time limits

My perspective may be slanted because I have been a Catholic in the pews for 70 years, and despite 12 years of Catholic parochial schooling, I never saw any evidence of abuse, but it seems to me that the public narrative on this issue is neither rational nor reasonable. Some facts?

There are no words sufficient to describe the INDIVIDUAL PRIESTS to committed these crimes. They intentionally went through years and years of screening, education, and training, apparently with the intention of using their religious positions and privileges to victimize (mainly) young boys, and they did everything possible to hide what they were doing from parents, teachers, pastors, bishops, and the law-enforcement community. When caught and confronted, they used Catholic beliefs against their superiors, claiming true remorse and promising NEVER TO ENGAGE IN THESE BEHAVIORS AGAIN. Then repeated them as long as they could get away with it. There is no punishment sufficient for these bastards.

And then you have the pastors and bishops. The ones who were involved are guilty of many things. Failing to take the abuse seriously enough. Failure to recognize the persistence of this behavior once it has manifested itself. Failure to recognize the seriousness of the harm on the victims.

But at the root of the problem at this level (pastors, Bishops), is the fact that they took Catholic teachings seriously. Catholics teach and believe that sin can be overcome with the grace of God. Catholics teach and believe that with a "good Act of Contrition," a person can "amend his life," forever. And when a Bishop, in the 50's, 60's, and 70's learned of these situations, met with the offending priests, heard their confessions, gave them absolution, and heard them promise never to do it again, they were convinced that the problem - at least with respect to that individual priest - was solved.

Which is why the priests were merely reassigned to another parish.

I submit that NO BISHOP EVER REASSIGNED A PRIEST WITH THE KNOWLEDGE, OR EVEN THE EXPECTATION, THAT THE CONDUCT WOULD CONTINUE. It was always with faith that the offending Priest had been transformed by the grace to God, and would not offend again.

Now we know that this belief was almost-criminally naive. With 20/20 hindsight, "we" say that the Bishops should have known that Catholic teachings and belief with respect to this particular sort of sin is all bullshit. And that is exactly what "we" are saying: The Bishops should have known that their religious beliefs, all based on Biblical teachings, were nonsense.

And now, in this enlightened age, "we" draw the following picture of "JUSTICE." (1) The Kids are victims whose injuries are permanent, for life. (2) Money damages are the best means that "society" can use to compensate for those damages. (3) Since the actual perpetrators are either dead, imprisoned, or totally impecunious, as are the involved Bishops, the source for these money damages must be The Church.

But what is "The Church," financially speaking? It is nothing more than the accumulated assets, money, and the insurance policies of the innocent almsgivers of the past hundred years.

So "justice" is the confiscation of the alms given to The Church by innocent almsgivers, to compensate victims (and their lawyers - 40% usually) of those priests who secretly exploited and abused the Church itself to commit their crimes. And the Pennsylvania legislature - bless their hearts - has made it easier for "justice" to take its toll on the innocent.

But don't let anyone tell you that Leftists are trying to kill organized religion. That would be paranoid.
 

ReinyDays

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The Catholic Bible doesn't say "forgive and forget" ... just says to forgive ... we should never forget ...

I disagree with the premise these monsters enter the priesthood in bad faith ... I think they honestly want to do God's work here on Earth, but then grow weak as time goes on ... we ask these folks to be celibate and that's crazy stupid ... every priest should have a nagging wife, every nun should have a lazy husband ... they're human and deserve all the benefits of human relationships ... it's not that hard ... or ... ummm ... well ... you know what I mean ...

I can forgive the priest who sins against young children ... but I damn well wouldn't let that priest loose among young children again ... and in every case, ALL CRIMES are to be reported to the civil authorities ... this isn't Medieval English, Catholics can't have their own justice system ... they get the Establishment Clause, and nothing else ...
 

rightwinger

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The Pennsylvania State Legislature is figuratively patting itself on the back these days because it passed a law that will give victims of long-ago priestly sexual abuse the right to sue today, and still collect money damages.

Pennsylvania ends future child sex abuse charges time limits

My perspective may be slanted because I have been a Catholic in the pews for 70 years, and despite 12 years of Catholic parochial schooling, I never saw any evidence of abuse, but it seems to me that the public narrative on this issue is neither rational nor reasonable. Some facts?

There are no words sufficient to describe the INDIVIDUAL PRIESTS to committed these crimes. They intentionally went through years and years of screening, education, and training, apparently with the intention of using their religious positions and privileges to victimize (mainly) young boys, and they did everything possible to hide what they were doing from parents, teachers, pastors, bishops, and the law-enforcement community. When caught and confronted, they used Catholic beliefs against their superiors, claiming true remorse and promising NEVER TO ENGAGE IN THESE BEHAVIORS AGAIN. Then repeated them as long as they could get away with it. There is no punishment sufficient for these bastards.

And then you have the pastors and bishops. The ones who were involved are guilty of many things. Failing to take the abuse seriously enough. Failure to recognize the persistence of this behavior once it has manifested itself. Failure to recognize the seriousness of the harm on the victims.

But at the root of the problem at this level (pastors, Bishops), is the fact that they took Catholic teachings seriously. Catholics teach and believe that sin can be overcome with the grace of God. Catholics teach and believe that with a "good Act of Contrition," a person can "amend his life," forever. And when a Bishop, in the 50's, 60's, and 70's learned of these situations, met with the offending priests, heard their confessions, gave them absolution, and heard them promise never to do it again, they were convinced that the problem - at least with respect to that individual priest - was solved.

Which is why the priests were merely reassigned to another parish.

I submit that NO BISHOP EVER REASSIGNED A PRIEST WITH THE KNOWLEDGE, OR EVEN THE EXPECTATION, THAT THE CONDUCT WOULD CONTINUE. It was always with faith that the offending Priest had been transformed by the grace to God, and would not offend again.

Now we know that this belief was almost-criminally naive. With 20/20 hindsight, "we" say that the Bishops should have known that Catholic teachings and belief with respect to this particular sort of sin is all bullshit. And that is exactly what "we" are saying: The Bishops should have known that their religious beliefs, all based on Biblical teachings, were nonsense.

And now, in this enlightened age, "we" draw the following picture of "JUSTICE." (1) The Kids are victims whose injuries are permanent, for life. (2) Money damages are the best means that "society" can use to compensate for those damages. (3) Since the actual perpetrators are either dead, imprisoned, or totally impecunious, as are the involved Bishops, the source for these money damages must be The Church.

But what is "The Church," financially speaking? It is nothing more than the accumulated assets, money, and the insurance policies of the innocent almsgivers of the past hundred years.

So "justice" is the confiscation of the alms given to The Church by innocent almsgivers, to compensate victims (and their lawyers - 40% usually) of those priests who secretly exploited and abused the Church itself to commit their crimes. And the Pennsylvania legislature - bless their hearts - has made it easier for "justice" to take its toll on the innocent.

But don't let anyone tell you that Leftists are trying to kill organized religion. That would be paranoid.

So Father, you have been molesting Alter Boy Timmy and are ready to repent. Now, say three Our Fathers and two Hail Marys and sin no more

You really think Bishops believed that? The Bishops and Cardinals were concerned with one thing.......Protecting the reputation of the Catholic Church.
They bullied the children to keep quiet, they told parents the situation was taken care of......then just shipped the Offender off without limiting temptation and without supervision.

That is why the Catholic Church has been condemned. Not because they have a few bad apples in their flock
 

rightwinger

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So "justice" is the confiscation of the alms given to The Church by innocent almsgivers, to compensate victims

Seems fair to me
 

Bo Didleysquat

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The Pennsylvania State Legislature is figuratively patting itself on the back these days because it passed a law that will give victims of long-ago priestly sexual abuse the right to sue today, and still collect money damages.

Pennsylvania ends future child sex abuse charges time limits

My perspective may be slanted because I have been a Catholic in the pews for 70 years, and despite 12 years of Catholic parochial schooling, I never saw any evidence of abuse, but it seems to me that the public narrative on this issue is neither rational nor reasonable. Some facts?

There are no words sufficient to describe the INDIVIDUAL PRIESTS to committed these crimes. They intentionally went through years and years of screening, education, and training, apparently with the intention of using their religious positions and privileges to victimize (mainly) young boys, and they did everything possible to hide what they were doing from parents, teachers, pastors, bishops, and the law-enforcement community. When caught and confronted, they used Catholic beliefs against their superiors, claiming true remorse and promising NEVER TO ENGAGE IN THESE BEHAVIORS AGAIN. Then repeated them as long as they could get away with it. There is no punishment sufficient for these bastards.

And then you have the pastors and bishops. The ones who were involved are guilty of many things. Failing to take the abuse seriously enough. Failure to recognize the persistence of this behavior once it has manifested itself. Failure to recognize the seriousness of the harm on the victims.

But at the root of the problem at this level (pastors, Bishops), is the fact that they took Catholic teachings seriously. Catholics teach and believe that sin can be overcome with the grace of God. Catholics teach and believe that with a "good Act of Contrition," a person can "amend his life," forever. And when a Bishop, in the 50's, 60's, and 70's learned of these situations, met with the offending priests, heard their confessions, gave them absolution, and heard them promise never to do it again, they were convinced that the problem - at least with respect to that individual priest - was solved.

Which is why the priests were merely reassigned to another parish.

I submit that NO BISHOP EVER REASSIGNED A PRIEST WITH THE KNOWLEDGE, OR EVEN THE EXPECTATION, THAT THE CONDUCT WOULD CONTINUE. It was always with faith that the offending Priest had been transformed by the grace to God, and would not offend again.

Now we know that this belief was almost-criminally naive. With 20/20 hindsight, "we" say that the Bishops should have known that Catholic teachings and belief with respect to this particular sort of sin is all bullshit. And that is exactly what "we" are saying: The Bishops should have known that their religious beliefs, all based on Biblical teachings, were nonsense.

And now, in this enlightened age, "we" draw the following picture of "JUSTICE." (1) The Kids are victims whose injuries are permanent, for life. (2) Money damages are the best means that "society" can use to compensate for those damages. (3) Since the actual perpetrators are either dead, imprisoned, or totally impecunious, as are the involved Bishops, the source for these money damages must be The Church.

But what is "The Church," financially speaking? It is nothing more than the accumulated assets, money, and the insurance policies of the innocent almsgivers of the past hundred years.

So "justice" is the confiscation of the alms given to The Church by innocent almsgivers, to compensate victims (and their lawyers - 40% usually) of those priests who secretly exploited and abused the Church itself to commit their crimes. And the Pennsylvania legislature - bless their hearts - has made it easier for "justice" to take its toll on the innocent.

But don't let anyone tell you that Leftists are trying to kill organized religion. That would be paranoid.


Are we still pretending this society is aghast at child sodomization? Our entire ruling aristocracy is involved and we all sat on our asses while Ghislaine Maxwell was allowed to slither back into the shadows. What is "The Church"? The Roman Catholic Church was the world's first multinational corporation and called for the enthnic cleansing of the Americas in Papal Bulls as early as the 1500s. Fucking children and genocide sanctioned by god's middlemen.
 

bullwinkle

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So "justice" is the confiscation of the alms given to The Church by innocent almsgivers, to compensate victims (and their lawyers - 40% usually) of those priests who secretly exploited and abused the Church itself to commit their crimes.
DGS49, I believe every word of your dissertation about this issue, and commend you for it.

But I also know that the Church at Rome is rich as Croesus. I know there are parishes that are poor as "church mice", but the Catholic Church as an institution is rolling in dough as well as tradition. I'd guess much of it is alms comes from the congregations, but the "Church" also owns businesses and makes astute investments.

Money actually can't compensate for anything. Not death, nor mental damage or any kind of loss, but it seems to be the only means to punish the aggressor in a way that makes them take heed.
 

rightwinger

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The story of pedophile priests has been around for decades

The Church does not seem like they have repented as the stories of cover ups and denials continue

Now, the label of a Church full of pedophile Priests is a cruel joke.

A joke they deserve
 

rightwinger

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So "justice" is the confiscation of the alms given to The Church by innocent almsgivers, to compensate victims (and their lawyers - 40% usually) of those priests who secretly exploited and abused the Church itself to commit their crimes.
DGS49, I believe every word of your dissertation about this issue, and commend you for it.

But I also know that the Church at Rome is rich as Croesus. I know there are parishes that are poor as "church mice", but the Catholic Church as an institution is rolling in dough as well as tradition. I'd guess much of it is alms comes from the congregations, but the "Church" also owns businesses and makes astute investments.

Money actually can't compensate for anything. Not death, nor mental damage or any kind of loss, but it seems to be the only means to punish the aggressor in a way that makes them take heed.
Money can’t compensate the lives they have destroyed
 

Jarlaxle

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The Catholic Church should have been declared a criminal organization and had all of its assets seized. They spent DECADES covering up for the diddlers...and one of the worst, instead of rotting in a cell, got a cushy job in the Vatican.
 

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