TEST--- are you a CONSERVATIVE or a LIBERAL????

[antagon]

There is a kind of disconnect here. You seem to criticize conservatives for benefitting from government programs even as they object to those very programs or principles of government that create them.

One of many components of conservativism is that it often acts against its own interests in order to embrace a higher principle. The Colonists certainly did when they decided to rid themselves from the authority of, and therefore any protection or other benefits of, the mother land. In fact they risked everything in their willingness to take their freedom by force.

Likewise, many conservatives are willing to give up certain deductions, tax credits, and various forms of security and guarantees in order to have more personal freedom over their assets and property and more options and opportunities available to them.

The fact that conservatives take advantage of such in the meantime is not damning nor hypocritical. They have had personal freedoms, assets, property, options, and opportunities taken from them by the government so that the government could give them some of that back.

The conservatives in the Tax Protest groups, Tea Parties, and similar groups, like the Founders generation did way back then, are demanding the right to govern themselves and take power of their own destinies. They do not want government to have the power to determine how their lives will be. Those who value security and what appears to be freebies more than they value their freedom of course despise the freedom movements.

i wouldnt square this criticism with informed conservatives. there's plenty of room for that ideology without reproach. i liken it to the brakes on a car. toyota anyone?

tpartiers are more the drive with the handbrake pulled types from my viewpoint a good mile and a half from the trees.

there absolutely is hypocrisy and ignorance in the combined demography and the ideology of the group. to liken them to 'partiers in 1773 is a big stretch. these folks claim patriot, not separatist, after all. some do dawn trident hats. many dont realize the give-take in the way you point out: theyre not acting as an informed conservative might, and knowingly taking a step back for two forward. there's little informed about their politics, from what i can tell.

instead, theyre dictating some extreme changes to the economy without really being the players who have to cope with them... that is, for many, if they keep getting their pensions or keep their overhead jobs. if it was a social conservatism movement, great. knowledge is arbitrary on morality. this enclave is speaking economics out of their wrong end.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Basically, at these rallies, you have retired military, pensioneers and semi retired people complaining about the cost of Government. But don't you dare look at the cost of providing Veterans benefits and pensions, don't touch Social Security or Medicare. It is the OTHER peoples benefits that they want cut out

I think it is fair to suggest that these programs will have to face some cuts in a mutual sharing of the burden. I also think it is a completely different set of circumstances when you throw people who worked and earned a benefit that they also paid into in many cases, up against entitlements with no work or sacrifice required. Do you think you could that least make that distinction RW?

Of course......But all these programs still put a burden on the taxpayer. Want to offer up your military pension or VA benefits? Want to offer up a cut in your Social Security check or Medicare benefits while you scream in protest about Government spending?

But we all know that is not what they are so voicefully protesting. They are protesting against benefits that others will receive, but they don't need

So because some people get benefits that they earned and/or paid into for their entire adult lives; that means that they are not permitted to complain about the gross government spending on other programs.

Things like a 35 year old who hasn't looked for work in 3 years but draws welfare and food stamps to sit at home and smoke dope while talking on his cell phone and flipping through his 600 cable channels?

Would those be the programs we're not supposed to bitch about, while you make a stupid fucking attempt to compare them to military retirement and Social Security?

Get real.

 

[Foxfyre]

There is a kind of disconnect here. You seem to criticize conservatives for benefitting from government programs even as they object to those very programs or principles of government that create them.

One of many components of conservativism is that it often acts against its own interests in order to embrace a higher principle. The Colonists certainly did when they decided to rid themselves from the authority of, and therefore any protection or other benefits of, the mother land. In fact they risked everything in their willingness to take their freedom by force.

Likewise, many conservatives are willing to give up certain deductions, tax credits, and various forms of security and guarantees in order to have more personal freedom over their assets and property and more options and opportunities available to them.

The fact that conservatives take advantage of such in the meantime is not damning nor hypocritical. They have had personal freedoms, assets, property, options, and opportunities taken from them by the government so that the government could give them some of that back.

The conservatives in the Tax Protest groups, Tea Parties, and similar groups, like the Founders generation did way back then, are demanding the right to govern themselves and take power of their own destinies. They do not want government to have the power to determine how their lives will be. Those who value security and what appears to be freebies more than they value their freedom of course despise the freedom movements.

i wouldnt square this criticism with informed conservatives. there's plenty of room for that ideology without reproach. i liken it to the brakes on a car. toyota anyone?

tpartiers are more the drive with the handbrake pulled types from my viewpoint a good mile and a half from the trees.

there absolutely is hypocrisy and ignorance in the combined demography and the ideology of the group. to liken them to 'partiers in 1773 is a big stretch. these folks claim patriot, not separatist, after all. some do dawn trident hats. many dont realize the give-take in the way you point out: theyre not acting as an informed conservative might, and knowingly taking a step back for two forward. there's little informed about their politics, from what i can tell.

instead, theyre dictating some extreme changes to the economy without really being the players who have to cope with them... that is, for many, if they keep getting their pensions or keep their overhead jobs. if it was a social conservatism movement, great. knowledge is arbitrary on morality. this enclave is speaking economics out of their wrong end.

You speak as one who has spent absolutely no time with the people in a Tea Party organizational meeting or demonstration. I have done both which is how I know first hand how misinformed you are about who the Tea Partiers are and what they are all about.

You speak as one who has spent too much time reading and believing the intentionally designed and implemented Tea Party smears and media disinformation--some are quite subtle in how that is done. I have spent most of a lifetime either in or studying the media, and I can assure you that the effort to discredit the Tea Parties is quite deliberate and mostly dishonest.

I wish you would look deeper for your information.

 

[SFC Ollie]

I don't need to take a test, I know who I am. I am an American. which means I hold conservatism close to my heart and do all I can to live the principles in my own life, never forcing anyone to make a choice that is against their will, if in fact their will has not already been stolen away by government and political correctness

The will of the majority of the American people has just been ignored by this President, the Democratic held congress and the democratic held senate. That's going to change in 8 months when conservatives win back the house and the senate in the 2010 elections. That's my prediction.

And just what is it you think they will do to improve the situation? I'd love to hear what their platform is. If you know, kindly elaborate so that we can all get excited about the "changes in Washington." Thus far, it's been a big fat zero, other than to threaten to overturn the health care bill. Apparently, the cons in Washington don't even realize how lengthy a process that would be, and then when Obama vetoes it (should it come to pass), they would need 67 Senate votes to override his veto. Do they honestly think they're going to win that big a majority in November?

C'mon!! Let's hear it from Repubicans/Conservatives!!! Show me your hopey-changey ideas (ones that will actually work, that is).

Do you know that they are already writing new regulations to fix the problems with this Health Care Bill? Already finding the problems. Would it not have been better to slow down and read it before they voted on the piece of crap?

 

[Foxfyre]

The will of the majority of the American people has just been ignored by this President, the Democratic held congress and the democratic held senate. That's going to change in 8 months when conservatives win back the house and the senate in the 2010 elections. That's my prediction.

And just what is it you think they will do to improve the situation? I'd love to hear what their platform is. If you know, kindly elaborate so that we can all get excited about the "changes in Washington." Thus far, it's been a big fat zero, other than to threaten to overturn the health care bill. Apparently, the cons in Washington don't even realize how lengthy a process that would be, and then when Obama vetoes it (should it come to pass), they would need 67 Senate votes to override his veto. Do they honestly think they're going to win that big a majority in November?

C'mon!! Let's hear it from Repubicans/Conservatives!!! Show me your hopey-changey ideas (ones that will actually work, that is).

Do you know that they are already writing new regulations to fix the problems with this Health Care Bill? Already finding the problems. Would it not have been better to slow down and read it before they voted on the piece of crap?

And all the other times we have patiently posted the GOP proposals that WOULD have worked, they have been ignored by those on the Left.

Meanwhile the Democrats are scrambling to fix stuff that got into the bill they didn't want and to get stuff into the bill that had to be there but got left out and they're frantically trying to divert the public attention and debate away from the subject altogether now.

It is going to require dedication, patience, perserverance, and overcoming fatigue for the GOP to keep this appropriately alive until the election. But at least with good conservatives in there, Obama won't have an opportunity to stack the courts with people who will dismiss the valid lawsuits coming in and engrave the most objectionable stuff in granite.

 

[antagon]

There is a kind of disconnect here. You seem to criticize conservatives for benefitting from government programs even as they object to those very programs or principles of government that create them.

One of many components of conservativism is that it often acts against its own interests in order to embrace a higher principle. The Colonists certainly did when they decided to rid themselves from the authority of, and therefore any protection or other benefits of, the mother land. In fact they risked everything in their willingness to take their freedom by force.

Likewise, many conservatives are willing to give up certain deductions, tax credits, and various forms of security and guarantees in order to have more personal freedom over their assets and property and more options and opportunities available to them.

The fact that conservatives take advantage of such in the meantime is not damning nor hypocritical. They have had personal freedoms, assets, property, options, and opportunities taken from them by the government so that the government could give them some of that back.

The conservatives in the Tax Protest groups, Tea Parties, and similar groups, like the Founders generation did way back then, are demanding the right to govern themselves and take power of their own destinies. They do not want government to have the power to determine how their lives will be. Those who value security and what appears to be freebies more than they value their freedom of course despise the freedom movements.

i wouldnt square this criticism with informed conservatives. there's plenty of room for that ideology without reproach. i liken it to the brakes on a car. toyota anyone?

tpartiers are more the drive with the handbrake pulled types from my viewpoint a good mile and a half from the trees.

there absolutely is hypocrisy and ignorance in the combined demography and the ideology of the group. to liken them to 'partiers in 1773 is a big stretch. these folks claim patriot, not separatist, after all. some do dawn trident hats. many dont realize the give-take in the way you point out: theyre not acting as an informed conservative might, and knowingly taking a step back for two forward. there's little informed about their politics, from what i can tell.

instead, theyre dictating some extreme changes to the economy without really being the players who have to cope with them... that is, for many, if they keep getting their pensions or keep their overhead jobs. if it was a social conservatism movement, great. knowledge is arbitrary on morality. this enclave is speaking economics out of their wrong end.

You speak as one who has spent absolutely no time with the people in a Tea Party organizational meeting or demonstration. I have done both which is how I know first hand how misinformed you are about who the Tea Partiers are and what they are all about.

You speak as one who has spent too much time reading and believing the intentionally designed and implemented Tea Party smears and media disinformation--some are quite subtle in how that is done. I have spent most of a lifetime either in or studying the media, and I can assure you that the effort to discredit the Tea Parties is quite deliberate and mostly dishonest.

I wish you would look deeper for your information.

virtually all of my information is from tea partiers right here on USMB and who ive seen on the street. that is as close as im willing to get, thank you. i appraise it as an inferior and misinformed alternative to conservatism from the reagan era, which i could respect. this cant hold a candle to it. not even close.

until conservatism gets a grip, their credibility is shot. tparty rhetoric is a step toward even less rational solutions than the two-faced ones the republicans are hooked on. where are the informed, pragmatic conservatives? the government needs them back in the GOP, stat.

 

[rightwinger]

i wouldnt square this criticism with informed conservatives. there's plenty of room for that ideology without reproach. i liken it to the brakes on a car. toyota anyone?

tpartiers are more the drive with the handbrake pulled types from my viewpoint a good mile and a half from the trees.

there absolutely is hypocrisy and ignorance in the combined demography and the ideology of the group. to liken them to 'partiers in 1773 is a big stretch. these folks claim patriot, not separatist, after all. some do dawn trident hats. many dont realize the give-take in the way you point out: theyre not acting as an informed conservative might, and knowingly taking a step back for two forward. there's little informed about their politics, from what i can tell.

instead, theyre dictating some extreme changes to the economy without really being the players who have to cope with them... that is, for many, if they keep getting their pensions or keep their overhead jobs. if it was a social conservatism movement, great. knowledge is arbitrary on morality. this enclave is speaking economics out of their wrong end.

You speak as one who has spent absolutely no time with the people in a Tea Party organizational meeting or demonstration. I have done both which is how I know first hand how misinformed you are about who the Tea Partiers are and what they are all about.

You speak as one who has spent too much time reading and believing the intentionally designed and implemented Tea Party smears and media disinformation--some are quite subtle in how that is done. I have spent most of a lifetime either in or studying the media, and I can assure you that the effort to discredit the Tea Parties is quite deliberate and mostly dishonest.

I wish you would look deeper for your information.

virtually all of my information is from tea partiers right here on USMB and who ive seen on the street. that is as close as im willing to get, thank you. i appraise it as an inferior and misinformed alternative to conservatism from the reagan era, which i could respect. this cant hold a candle to it. not even close.

until conservatism gets a grip, their credibility is shot. tparty rhetoric is a step toward even less rational solutions than the two-faced ones the republicans are hooked on. where are the informed, pragmatic conservatives? the government needs them back in the GOP, stat.

The Tea Party rhetoric...egged on by Fox News and Limbaugh is appealing to a solid conservative base that gets off on the name calling, extremism, barely hidden threats and deception.
However, to most Americans and to the Moderate/Centrists this type of behavior is repulsive.

It will bury the once Grand Old Party

 

[Foxfyre]

i wouldnt square this criticism with informed conservatives. there's plenty of room for that ideology without reproach. i liken it to the brakes on a car. toyota anyone?

tpartiers are more the drive with the handbrake pulled types from my viewpoint a good mile and a half from the trees.

there absolutely is hypocrisy and ignorance in the combined demography and the ideology of the group. to liken them to 'partiers in 1773 is a big stretch. these folks claim patriot, not separatist, after all. some do dawn trident hats. many dont realize the give-take in the way you point out: theyre not acting as an informed conservative might, and knowingly taking a step back for two forward. there's little informed about their politics, from what i can tell.

instead, theyre dictating some extreme changes to the economy without really being the players who have to cope with them... that is, for many, if they keep getting their pensions or keep their overhead jobs. if it was a social conservatism movement, great. knowledge is arbitrary on morality. this enclave is speaking economics out of their wrong end.

You speak as one who has spent absolutely no time with the people in a Tea Party organizational meeting or demonstration. I have done both which is how I know first hand how misinformed you are about who the Tea Partiers are and what they are all about.

You speak as one who has spent too much time reading and believing the intentionally designed and implemented Tea Party smears and media disinformation--some are quite subtle in how that is done. I have spent most of a lifetime either in or studying the media, and I can assure you that the effort to discredit the Tea Parties is quite deliberate and mostly dishonest.

I wish you would look deeper for your information.

virtually all of my information is from tea partiers right here on USMB and who ive seen on the street. that is as close as im willing to get, thank you. i appraise it as an inferior and misinformed alternative to conservatism from the reagan era, which i could respect. this cant hold a candle to it. not even close.

until conservatism gets a grip, their credibility is shot. tparty rhetoric is a step toward even less rational solutions than the two-faced ones the republicans are hooked on. where are the informed, pragmatic conservatives? the government needs them back in the GOP, stat.

Okay, I'll bite.

Please enlighten me on what an informed alternative to conservativism from the Reagan era would look like instead of the concepts the Tea Partiers are putting out there.

And what would an 'informed, pragnatic conservative' look like?

Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[Thinman]

where are the informed, pragmatic conservatives? the government needs them back in the GOP, stat.

Antagon, what would you expect to hear from an 'informed, pragmatic conservative' about this healthcare bill?

Conservatives aren't against healthcare. Conservatives object to the government telling us we have to buy a product or service. We also object to the cost and believe there are free market solutions.

If the major part of the law doesn't go into effect until some future date, why couldn't we have slowed down and investigated other options? What was the hurry? There is only one answer to that question - a socialist agenda - must pass it quickly while we have super majorities and before the general public catches on.

What other reason????

 

[Foxfyre]

where are the informed, pragmatic conservatives? the government needs them back in the GOP, stat.

Antagon, what would you expect to hear from an 'informed, pragmatic conservative' about this healthcare bill?

Conservatives aren't against healthcare. Conservatives object to the government telling us we have to buy a product or service. We also object to the cost and believe there are free market solutions.

If the major part of the law doesn't go into effect until some future date, why couldn't we have slowed down and investigated other options? What was the hurry? There is only one answer to that question - a socialist agenda - must pass it quickly while we have super majorities and before the general public catches on.

What other reason????

For the life of me, if there were no other objectionable factors in the healthcare legislation, I can't understand how ANY America would not be appalled at the government requiring them to buy anything they don't want.

 

[antagon]

You speak as one who has spent absolutely no time with the people in a Tea Party organizational meeting or demonstration. I have done both which is how I know first hand how misinformed you are about who the Tea Partiers are and what they are all about.

You speak as one who has spent too much time reading and believing the intentionally designed and implemented Tea Party smears and media disinformation--some are quite subtle in how that is done. I have spent most of a lifetime either in or studying the media, and I can assure you that the effort to discredit the Tea Parties is quite deliberate and mostly dishonest.

I wish you would look deeper for your information.

virtually all of my information is from tea partiers right here on USMB and who ive seen on the street. that is as close as im willing to get, thank you. i appraise it as an inferior and misinformed alternative to conservatism from the reagan era, which i could respect. this cant hold a candle to it. not even close.

until conservatism gets a grip, their credibility is shot. tparty rhetoric is a step toward even less rational solutions than the two-faced ones the republicans are hooked on. where are the informed, pragmatic conservatives? the government needs them back in the GOP, stat.

Okay, I'll bite.

Please enlighten me on what an informed alternative to conservativism from the Reagan era would look like instead of the concepts the Tea Partiers are putting out there.

And what would an 'informed, pragnatic conservative' look like?

Inquiring minds want to know.

i'll bite back...

not...

i made an effort not to use any pejorative pictures of these modern conservatives, neo- if you wish. if the pictures dont do it, their rhetoric does.

 

[rightwinger]

virtually all of my information is from tea partiers right here on USMB and who ive seen on the street. that is as close as im willing to get, thank you. i appraise it as an inferior and misinformed alternative to conservatism from the reagan era, which i could respect. this cant hold a candle to it. not even close.

until conservatism gets a grip, their credibility is shot. tparty rhetoric is a step toward even less rational solutions than the two-faced ones the republicans are hooked on. where are the informed, pragmatic conservatives? the government needs them back in the GOP, stat.

Okay, I'll bite.

Please enlighten me on what an informed alternative to conservativism from the Reagan era would look like instead of the concepts the Tea Partiers are putting out there.

And what would an 'informed, pragnatic conservative' look like?

Inquiring minds want to know.

i'll bite back...

not...

i made an effort not to use any pejorative pictures of these modern conservatives, neo- if you wish. if the pictures dont do it, their rhetoric does.

Oh....I get it now

Intelectuals are.....GOOD

Hatemongers are.......BAD

 

[Thinman]

You lost me, young man. Remember, I am a grouchy old man with tea Party tendencies, so a verbal answer is required to convince me.

 

[antagon]

where are the informed, pragmatic conservatives? the government needs them back in the GOP, stat.

Antagon, what would you expect to hear from an 'informed, pragmatic conservative' about this healthcare bill?

republican legislators from any era, given this minority position would crack the whip against this bill.

conservative citizens of yore would, however, know what socialism, communism, fascism, marxism and nazism are, and wouldnt have these misnomers as the centerpiece of their dissent.

 

[Thinman]

How would you label a government that can tell its' citizens that they must purchase a product or service?

Now that this administration has established a precedent, what product or service comes next?

 

[Foxfyre]

where are the informed, pragmatic conservatives? the government needs them back in the GOP, stat.

Antagon, what would you expect to hear from an 'informed, pragmatic conservative' about this healthcare bill?

republican legislators from any era, given this minority position would crack the whip against this bill.

conservative citizens of yore would, however, know what socialism, communism, fascism, marxism and nazism are, and wouldnt have these misnomers as the centerpiece of their dissent.

They would when one or more of those ideo/political systems manifests itself even in small ways. And smart people recognize a duck when they see one.

Smart people also understand that such ideo/political systems seldom just go BOOM and suddenly they are there. They generally start out as seemingly innocuous, even benevolent action. No need for alarm. Don't make a mountain out of a molehill. Extremist terms are not warranted. The frog doesn't jump out of the pot if you warm the water slowly.

Does the line: "You should have stopped me at the dinner roll." mean anything to you?

 

[Father Time]

Which side of the fence

If you ever wondered which side of the fence you sit on, this is a great test!



If a conservative doesn't like guns, he doesn’t buy one.

If a liberal doesn't like guns, he wants all guns outlawed.

If a conservative doesn't like porn they'll demand it be censored.

If a conservative is a vegetarian, he doesn’t eat meat.

If a liberal is a vegetarian, he wants all meat products banned for everyone.

Name one animal rights group that wants meat banned, I haven't even seen PETA call for it to be banned.

If a conservative is homosexual, he quietly leads his life.

If a liberal is homosexual, he demands legislated respect.

If you think gay marriage is legislated respect you're an idiot.

If a conservative doesn't like a talk show host, he switches channels.

So I take it you don't consider Sarah Palin a conservative.

If a conservative is a non-believer, he doesn't go to church.

A liberal non-believer wants any mention of God and religion silenced. (Unless it's a foreign religion, of course!)

Once again name one mainstream liberal group that wants religion banned. And before you start I should remind you that no wanting public sponsored prayer/religion is not the same thing.

If a conservative reads this, he'll forward it so his friends can have a good laugh.

A liberal will delete it because he's "offended".

So what? You telling me you let every email you don't like just sit around and take up space?

Oh and I got 5:1 odds you'll resort to No True Scotsman.

 

[antagon]

How would you label a government that can tell its' citizens that they must purchase a product or service?

Now that this administration has established a precedent, what product or service comes next?

america?

welcome to the club, man. dunno about you but ive been purchasing retirement insurance, retirement/incapacity medical coverage, workers comp, corporate charters, licenses, auto insurance, liability insurance, testing fees, continuing education.. all sorts of things i'd rather wing it without.

 

[Father Time]

Which side of the fence

If you ever wondered which side of the fence you sit on, this is a great test!



If a conservative doesn't like guns, he doesn’t buy one.

If a liberal doesn't like guns, he wants all guns outlawed.

If a conservative is a vegetarian, he doesn’t eat meat.

If a liberal is a vegetarian, he wants all meat products banned for everyone.

If a conservative is homosexual, he quietly leads his life.

If a liberal is homosexual, he demands legislated respect.

If a conservative is down-and-out, he thinks about how to better his situation.

A liberal wonders who is going to take care of him.

If a conservative doesn't like a talk show host, he switches channels.

Liberals demand that those they don't like be shut down.

If a conservative is a non-believer, he doesn't go to church.

A liberal non-believer wants any mention of God and religion silenced. (Unless it's a foreign religion, of course!)

If a conservative decides he needs health care, he goes about shopping for it, or may choose a job that provides it.

A liberal demands that the rest of us pay for his.

If a conservative reads this, he'll forward it so his friends can have a good laugh.

A liberal will delete it because he's "offended".

Well, I forwarded it.

$

Note to Maple:

Can you post this at least another seven times. That'll make the nice round number of 100 - the number of times this has been posted.

BTW, this should have been in the humour or flame zone....

It must be a fairly true assessment, otherwise you as a FLAMING LIBERAL would not be bothered by it. It bothers you, doesn't it???

Are you on drugs?

If I insult you and say mean things about you, you wouldn't be upset unless everything I say is true?

Ok then.

You're a serial dog rapist who spends his free time trying to poison children and blame the communists.

Remember if you get upset it must be true!

 

[Immanuel]

"The change I bet you wasn't expecting"?

Oh my God, I would be so embarrassed being in the vicinity of that sign!

Immie