Zone1 Tax the Rich! Make them Pay their Fair Share!

[JonKoch]

He increased taxes 11 times

Which 11 taxes did he increase? What was the before rate and the after rate?

AND increased SS taxes which hit the workers

Yes, workers had to pay more to save Social Security.

His 11 tax increases took back about half the tax cut of 1981



Workers saved SS? Weird, I thought the GOP was hiding behind the extra revenues to hide the true costs of tax cuts for the rich with Dubya/Cheeto

 

[sparky]

No just your posting history Cupcake

ad hominems roll right off my back here Jon.........that all you got?

~S~

 

[JonKoch]

So are you willing to pay 47% of your income to the feds? 56%? Why do you figure that they should pay those cockamamie rates and you don't? Because they have more? SMH. Run along commie troll.

Yeah, I think we had $5.8 trillion in debt Jan 20th 2001, then Dubya/GOP policies took over and the rest is $39+ trillion debt


THERE SHOULD BE A MIN ALTERNATIVE TAX OF ANY INCOME ABOVE $1 MILLION A YEAR, 50% ON ANYTHING ABOVE THAT. We had like 1,100+ families in 2011 last I looked who made over $1 million each but paid zero federal income taxes (like Cheeto)

 

[JonKoch]

I didn't say anything about AL. Do you have a problem reading. WA doesn't have a resource other than OTHER TAXPAYERS that they are redistributing the wealth of. Try again, parasite.

Sorry, just thought those damn socialists taking OUR money to fund themselves, might hurt you? Guess not

 

[JonKoch]

LMAOROG, I lived and worked through that period and I studied and improved my skills and gained a comfortable retirement. While I am certainly not part of the 1%, I also don't hold any jealousy or animosity because they have been successful. It has been a symbiotic relationship, my employers were more successful and as a result, so was I. Cry me a river, parasite.

Yeah, it's jealousy shaking head

 

[sparky]

Sorry, just thought those damn socialists taking OUR money to fund themselves, might hurt you? Guess not

Apparently you don't realize you're going down socialist avenue Jon

such is the left now

~S~

 

[JonKoch]

quantify it Jon

~S~

How do taxes affect income inequality?

taxpolicycenter.org

 

[JonKoch]

Apparently you don't realize you're going down socialist avenue Jon

such is the left now

~S~

Sorry? What is Alaska doing but socialism, with money we've paid?

Next think the US will have publicly funded schools, fire, police, etc

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

NOTHING ABOUT THIS WAS UNREALIZED CAPITAL GAINS CUPCAKE, THIS WAS 100% INCOME. YOU ARE THINKING OF THE ONE WHERE USING THAT PUT THE BILLIONAIRES AT 4% EFFECTIVE RATES

• Methodology: The analysis by Saez and Zucman includes all federal, state, and local taxes, providing a comprehensive, though debated, view of the total tax burden.

Zucman countered that his and Saez’s analysis considers the EITC and other credits like it as transfers of income, akin to food stamps or jobless benefits, rather than tax provisions.

“If you start counting some transfers as negative taxes, it is not clear where to stop,” he said via email. “Do you treat the EITC as a negative tax? veterans’ benefits? medicaid? defense spending? … There’s no clear line and the results become arbitrary.”



There is general agreement among economists, however, that the tax burden of the rich has fallen considerably in recent decades.



“The rich definitely pay less in taxes than they did in the past and less than they should,” Furman said.

https://archive.ph/i9pbY#selection-381.92-381.218

NOTHING ABOUT THIS WAS UNREALIZED CAPITAL GAINS CUPCAKE, THIS WAS 100% INCOME.
You're wrong.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

His 11 tax increases took back about half the tax cut of 1981



Workers saved SS? Weird, I thought the GOP was hiding behind the extra revenues to hide the true costs of tax cuts for the rich with Dubya/Cheeto

His 11 tax increases took back about half the tax cut of 1981

You mean they didn't increase existing tax rates? DURR

Workers saved SS?

Who else was going to save it?

I thought the GOP was hiding behind the extra revenues to hide the true costs of tax cuts

Did revenues go down after the tax cuts? Link?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Yeah, I think we had $5.8 trillion in debt Jan 20th 2001, then Dubya/GOP policies took over and the rest is $39+ trillion debt


THERE SHOULD BE A MIN ALTERNATIVE TAX OF ANY INCOME ABOVE $1 MILLION A YEAR, 50% ON ANYTHING ABOVE THAT. We had like 1,100+ families in 2011 last I looked who made over $1 million each but paid zero federal income taxes (like Cheeto)

We had like 1,100+ families in 2011 last I looked who made over $1 million each but paid zero federal income taxes (like Cheeto)

They had taxable income over $1 million and paid zero federal income taxes?

Link?

 

[Concerned American]

Yeah, it's jealousy shaking head



View attachment 1241442

ROTFLMAO, so send in your $112,490 to bring it down. If we didn't allow 20 million illegals in and pay for politically motivated scam impeachments and lawfare, that debt wouldn't be nearly as high. How about this, you and your party quit whining that you don't have as much as others and obstructing progress and actually work to make this country better. Hmmm parasite?

 

[Concerned American]

Sorry? What is Alaska doing but socialism, with money we've paid?

The natural resources of that state belong to all citizens of that state. They are paying the rightful owners. That is not socialism. Try again.

 

[JonKoch]

NOTHING ABOUT THIS WAS UNREALIZED CAPITAL GAINS CUPCAKE, THIS WAS 100% INCOME.
You're wrong.

View attachment 1241444
View attachment 1241445

So just BS. Like "higher earners pay higher rates" contradicting the headline claim? LMAOROG. Sure MOST INCOME FROM THE 400 RICHEST, THIS STUDY, PAYS CAPITAL GAINS. THAT ALONE REFUTES THE BS


But yes when the TOP 1% CBO, TAX POLICY CENTER, ETC FIND THE TAX SYSTEM IS STILL PROGRESSIVE, BARELY


The U.S. federal individual income tax is highly progressive, with the top 1% paying roughly 40% of all federal income taxes. However, when combined with regressive state/local sales taxes and payroll taxes, the overall tax system is only mildly progressive. While income taxes target high earners, tax expenditures and capital gains preferences lower the overall progressivity.

Who Pays Taxes in America in 2024

America's tax system is just barely progressive, and not nearly as progressive as many suggest or as progressive as it could be. There is plenty of room for lawmakers to improve the progressivity of the tax code to combat economic, wealth, and racial inequality.

itep.org

In their 2019 book The Triumph of Injustice: How the Rich Dodge Taxes and How to Make Them Pay, , economists Emmanuel Saez and Gabriel Zucman do not include unrealized capital gains in their core measure of taxable income to analyze tax rates in 2018.

New Book by Gabriel Zucman and Emmanuel Saez: The Triumph of Injustice, How the Rich Dodge Taxes and How to Make Them Pay | Clausen Center

The Clausen Center is proud to share this new title by UC Berkeley's own Gabriel Zucman and Emmanuel Saez: The Triumph of Injustice: How the Rich Dodge Taxes and How to Make Them Pay.

clausen.berkeley.edu

Based on studies like those in The Triumph of Injustice (referenced in Zucman 2024), economists Emmanuel Saez and Gabriel Zucman generally focus on realized income and taxes actually paid in their core analysis of effective tax rates for 2018. While they argue for taxing wealth, their core tax rate calculations typically exclude unrealized capital gains.



Therefore, for their primary 2018 tax burden estimations, Saez and Zucman do not include unrealized capital gains in their core taxable income measure.

https://gabriel-zucman.eu/files/BSYZ2025NBER.pdf

 

[JonKoch]

The natural resources of that state belong to all citizens of that state. They are paying the rightful owners. That is not socialism. Try again.

Oh I thought they were part of the US, we just get to subsidize them via socialism. Got it

 

[JonKoch]

We had like 1,100+ families in 2011 last I looked who made over $1 million each but paid zero federal income taxes (like Cheeto)

They had taxable income over $1 million and paid zero federal income taxes?

Link?

Not looking for the 2011 one BUT


While 0.4% of tax filers earning over $1 million paid no federal income tax in 2023, this is a relatively small portion of that high-income group


A small share of filers (0.4%) making over $1 million did not pay any federal income tax in 2023. This happens for a number of reasons: large tax deductions, tax credits, lower tax rates on some kinds of income, or business losses.

Who doesn’t pay federal income taxes? | USAFacts

Whether someone owes federal income tax depends on their income, deductions, and credits. In 2023, 3 in 10 filers owed nothing.

usafacts.org

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

So just BS. Like "higher earners pay higher rates" contradicting the headline claim? LMAOROG. Sure MOST INCOME FROM THE 400 RICHEST, THIS STUDY, PAYS CAPITAL GAINS. THAT ALONE REFUTES THE BS


But yes when the TOP 1% CBO, TAX POLICY CENTER, ETC FIND THE TAX SYSTEM IS STILL PROGRESSIVE, BARELY


The U.S. federal individual income tax is highly progressive, with the top 1% paying roughly 40% of all federal income taxes. However, when combined with regressive state/local sales taxes and payroll taxes, the overall tax system is only mildly progressive. While income taxes target high earners, tax expenditures and capital gains preferences lower the overall progressivity.

Who Pays Taxes in America in 2024

America's tax system is just barely progressive, and not nearly as progressive as many suggest or as progressive as it could be. There is plenty of room for lawmakers to improve the progressivity of the tax code to combat economic, wealth, and racial inequality.

itep.org

In their 2019 book The Triumph of Injustice: How the Rich Dodge Taxes and How to Make Them Pay, , economists Emmanuel Saez and Gabriel Zucman do not include unrealized capital gains in their core measure of taxable income to analyze tax rates in 2018.

New Book by Gabriel Zucman and Emmanuel Saez: The Triumph of Injustice, How the Rich Dodge Taxes and How to Make Them Pay | Clausen Center

The Clausen Center is proud to share this new title by UC Berkeley's own Gabriel Zucman and Emmanuel Saez: The Triumph of Injustice: How the Rich Dodge Taxes and How to Make Them Pay.

clausen.berkeley.edu

Based on studies like those in The Triumph of Injustice (referenced in Zucman 2024), economists Emmanuel Saez and Gabriel Zucman generally focus on realized income and taxes actually paid in their core analysis of effective tax rates for 2018. While they argue for taxing wealth, their core tax rate calculations typically exclude unrealized capital gains.



Therefore, for their primary 2018 tax burden estimations, Saez and Zucman do not include unrealized capital gains in their core taxable income measure.

https://gabriel-zucman.eu/files/BSYZ2025NBER.pdf

 

[JonKoch]

His 11 tax increases took back about half the tax cut of 1981

You mean they didn't increase existing tax rates? DURR

Workers saved SS?

Who else was going to save it?

I thought the GOP was hiding behind the extra revenues to hide the true costs of tax cuts

Did revenues go down after the tax cuts? Link?

EASY ONE THERE




1981 F/Y - Carter's last year - 19.1% GDP revenues


1982- Reagan FIRST YEAR 18.6%
1983- Reagan 17%
1984- Reagan 16.9%
1985- Reagan 17.2%
1986- Reagan 17%
1987- Reagan 17.9%
1988- Reagan 17.7% (Cut taxes from top rate of 50% the US had since LBJ, to 28%, LARGEST TAX CUT FOR THE RICH TO DATE)
1989- Reagan 17.8%



US DEBT TO GDP IN January 1981 was 31%



U.S. federal debt-to-GDP ratio at the end of fiscal year 1989 (September 30, 1989) was approximately 39% . Debt had increased from under $1 trillion to over $2.86 trillion in Ronnie final F/Y



Ronnie,- DAMN, TRIPLING US DEBT (though increasing it ONLY 31% of GDP to 39% of GDP, is pretty good, compared to Dubya/Dementia Donnie


Let's bypass that serial tax increaser, Poppy Bush for now and go to the best conservative Prez since Ike, BJ Bill

• Total Federal Debt (1993): ~$4.351 trillion (at fiscal end).
• Debt-to-GDP Ratio (1993): ~64.0%.

Wait, was Poppy a secret proliferate spender?


"During George H.W. Bush’s presidency (1989–1993), the U.S. national debt rose by approximately $1.55 trillion, representing a 54% increase over his four-year term. He inherited a large deficit from the Reagan administration and faced a struggling economy, which, along with the savings and loan bailout, contributed to this rapid debt growth."


Oh right that "great economy the Gipper "built"



All right BJ Bill Clinton takes over the US and debt to GDP was 64%



Poppy had 17% of GDP in revenues his final F/Y (1993) October 1, 1992 to September 30, 1993


1994- Clinton first year - 17.5% GDP revenues
1995- Clinton 17.9%
1996- Clinton 18.3%
1997- Clinton 18.7%
1998- Clinton 19.3% (First Clinton BUDGET surplus)
1999- Clinton 19.3% (Second Clinton surplus)
2000- Clinton 20% (Third Clinton surplus)
2001- Clinton 18.9% (Fourth Clinton surplus)
How did BJ BILL CLINTON, take US from

• Debt-to-GDP Ratio (1993): ~64.0%. TO JUST 54.7% IN F/Y 2001

DAMN


LINKS HERE

GOP Budget Busting 101​

Thread 'GOP Budget Busting 101'

Monday at 5:45 PM

OK People let's get to the topic of debt, how we got here ($39+ trillion) and how GOP policy vs Democratic policies influenced it.

If you don't want to bring actual facts or data, just stand off



From 1945 to 1980 the US debt to GDP was shrinking. Measuring the debt via GDP accounts for population growth and inflation, and it's how every credible economist or nation measures revenues and expenses



US debt to GDP ABOUT 119% IN 1945, THE HIGHEST EVER TO THAT TIME


US DEBT TO GDP IN 1980 was 31%

What were we hearing from the GOP at that time? Let's take a ;look at Ronnie...

• JonKoch
• Replies: 21
• Forum: Economy

• 
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[Toddsterpatriot]

Not looking for the 2011 one BUT


While 0.4% of tax filers earning over $1 million paid no federal income tax in 2023, this is a relatively small portion of that high-income group


A small share of filers (0.4%) making over $1 million did not pay any federal income tax in 2023. This happens for a number of reasons: large tax deductions, tax credits, lower tax rates on some kinds of income, or business losses.

Who doesn’t pay federal income taxes? | USAFacts

Whether someone owes federal income tax depends on their income, deductions, and credits. In 2023, 3 in 10 filers owed nothing.

usafacts.org

Right, they "earned over $1 million" before "large tax deductions, tax credits, lower tax rates on some kinds of income, or business losses".

 

[JonKoch]

View attachment 1241454

Yeah, like REAL economists they figure how much taxes fall on Corps, or not. It's called tax incidence

Tax incidence, or tax burden, is the economic analysis of who ultimately bears the cost of a tax, which often differs from who legally pays it. It is determined by the relative price elasticity of supply and demand, rather than legislative intent, as taxes are shifted through price changes.