Zone1 Tax the Rich! Make them Pay their Fair Share!

[JonKoch]

People got to keep a larger percentage of the GDP?

Stop convincing me Reagan's tax cuts were awesome!!!!

True, Ronnie gutted revenues AS he blew up spending, like Dubya and Cheeto did


That's the primary reason the US debt's over $39 trillion

 

[Hollie]

True, Ronnie gutted revenues AS he blew up spending, like Dubya and Cheeto did


That's the primary reason the US debt's over $39 trillion

Do give credit to the corpse who pretended to be president, Biden, and his green new boondoggle. A masterstroke of deficit spending.

 

[alang1216]

The success someone EARNS is not a reason to be penalized and forced to support those who don't have the ambition to succeed.

I pretty much agree with that. Here is what I don't like... The billionaire dies and gives a few billion to his kid. That kid, not only never has to work, but pays a lower income tax rate than a plumber

 

[alang1216]

Yet here you are jealously coveting another's earned wealth and advocating robbing them of a greater portion of their wealth simply because they are more successful than you are. How about fair? Pay for what you use---LOL, like scam impeachments that cost tax payers for political theater. Taxes should be paid equally by all in the country. I will gladly pay the $224,900 portion of the national debt that is owed by my family if you and every other deadbeat will do the same.
The per capita amount of U.S. public debt is approximately $112,450 as of early 2026. This figure represents the share of the national debt attributed to each citizen.
pgpf.org Wikipedia

I'll consider your proposal once we stop spending a billion a day bombing Iran.

 

[alang1216]

Right now the poor pay at a much higher rate since most taxes, like gas tax, are not progressive.

Where do the "poor pay at a much higher rate"?

Be specific.

Lower-income households pay a higher effective tax rate in the United States primarily through state and local tax systems. While the federal tax system is progressive (higher earners pay a higher percentage), state and local governments frequently rely on regressive taxes—such as sales tax, excise taxes, and property taxes—that disproportionately consume a larger share of a low-income family's budget.

Here is where the poor pay a higher rate, according to tax policy analysis:

• State and Local Tax Systems (General): According to the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy (ITEP), in 45 states, low-income residents pay a higher effective tax rate than the top 1 percent.
• The "Terrible 10" States: The states with the most regressive tax systems—meaning they hit the poor the hardest—are Washington, Florida, Texas, South Dakota, Nevada, Tennessee, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Oklahoma, and Wyoming.
• Consumption Taxes (Sales Tax): Because lower-income families spend all or most of their earnings on basic needs (necessities) that are subject to sales tax, while higher-income families save and invest a large portion of their income (which is not taxed by sales tax), the effective sales tax rate is higher for the poor.
• Excise Taxes ("Sin" Taxes): Taxes on specific goods like gasoline, tobacco, and alcohol are often flat fees per unit (e.g., per gallon or pack). These hit low-income consumers harder as a percentage of their income.
• Payroll Taxes: While not always labeled "regressive," Social Security payroll taxes are capped, meaning wealthy people pay 0% tax on income above a certain limit, resulting in a lower percentage of their total income going toward this tax compared to the working poor.

Key Findings on Disparity:

• Washington State: The poorest 20% of families in Washington pay 17.8% of their income in state and local taxes, whereas the top 1% pay roughly 3%.
• National Average: The bottom 20% of taxpayers pay a state and local effective tax rate of 11.4%, which is more than 50% higher than the rate paid by the top 1% (7.4%).
• "Low-Tax" Trap: States with no income tax (e.g., Texas, Florida) often boast about being low-tax, but they make up for it with high sales and property taxes, making them high-tax for the poor.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

True, Ronnie gutted revenues AS he blew up spending, like Dubya and Cheeto did


That's the primary reason the US debt's over $39 trillion

Dems had control of the House, Senate and Presidency several times since Reagan.

Why didn't they raise the top rate back to 70%? Why didn't they cut spending below Reagan's levels?

DURR

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I pretty much agree with that. Here is what I don't like... The billionaire dies and gives a few billion to his kid. That kid, not only never has to work, but pays a lower income tax rate than a plumber

The billionaire dies and gives a few billion to his kid.

And pays a 40% tax.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Lower-income households pay a higher effective tax rate in the United States primarily through state and local tax systems. While the federal tax system is progressive (higher earners pay a higher percentage), state and local governments frequently rely on regressive taxes—such as sales tax, excise taxes, and property taxes—that disproportionately consume a larger share of a low-income family's budget.

Here is where the poor pay a higher rate, according to tax policy analysis:

• State and Local Tax Systems (General): According to the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy (ITEP), in 45 states, low-income residents pay a higher effective tax rate than the top 1 percent.
• The "Terrible 10" States: The states with the most regressive tax systems—meaning they hit the poor the hardest—are Washington, Florida, Texas, South Dakota, Nevada, Tennessee, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Oklahoma, and Wyoming.
• Consumption Taxes (Sales Tax): Because lower-income families spend all or most of their earnings on basic needs (necessities) that are subject to sales tax, while higher-income families save and invest a large portion of their income (which is not taxed by sales tax), the effective sales tax rate is higher for the poor.
• Excise Taxes ("Sin" Taxes): Taxes on specific goods like gasoline, tobacco, and alcohol are often flat fees per unit (e.g., per gallon or pack). These hit low-income consumers harder as a percentage of their income.
• Payroll Taxes: While not always labeled "regressive," Social Security payroll taxes are capped, meaning wealthy people pay 0% tax on income above a certain limit, resulting in a lower percentage of their total income going toward this tax compared to the working poor.

Key Findings on Disparity:

• Washington State: The poorest 20% of families in Washington pay 17.8% of their income in state and local taxes, whereas the top 1% pay roughly 3%.
• National Average: The bottom 20% of taxpayers pay a state and local effective tax rate of 11.4%, which is more than 50% higher than the rate paid by the top 1% (7.4%).
• "Low-Tax" Trap: States with no income tax (e.g., Texas, Florida) often boast about being low-tax, but they make up for it with high sales and property taxes, making them high-tax for the poor.

The poor don't pay at a much higher rate?

 

[Hafar1014]

Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. "Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration.” Abraham Lincoln addressed the importance of labor in his presidential address.

Thats funny when you consider that a machine and AI can replace over priced labor. The business owner is where the value is . He creates the need for labor. Labor only creates work. The market determines the value of labor. There has to be a profit to pay a wage. Government is the enemy of profits. CA raised the min wage and people lost their jobs and businesses moved out. Now how much do you make on unemployment

 

[JonKoch]

Dems had control of the House, Senate and Presidency several times since Reagan.

Why didn't they raise the top rate back to 70%? Why didn't they cut spending below Reagan's levels?

DURR

Control? As in 60 in the Senate to stop the filibuster? (BESIDES THE LESS THAN 60 DAYS OBAMA HAD AS THE US WAS SHEDDING MILLIONS OF JOBS IN 2009)

But yes, Clinton (93) Obama (ACA and partial increasing Dubya's tax cuts for the rich and Sleepy Joe (IRA) DID GET MORE REVENUES

As pointed out BJ Bill did cut spending. Obama, like Sleepy Joe, inherited a shit show from the GOP


BUT THOSE THREE WERE THE ONLY PRESIDENTS SINCE CARTER THAT HANDED THE NEXT GUY A SMALLER DEFICIT THAN WHAT THEY WERE HANDED

 

[JonKoch]

The billionaire dies and gives a few billion to his kid.

And pays a 40% tax.

lmaorog. Sure, sure

Common Tax Avoidance Strategies

• Grantor Retained Annuity Trusts (GRATs): Wealthy individuals transfer assets like stocks into a trust for a set term. They receive annual annuity payments from the trust, and if the assets appreciate beyond a certain federal rate (the Section 7520 rate), the excess growth passes to heirs tax-free.

• Intentionally Defective Grantor Trusts (IDGTs): These trusts allow assets to grow outside of the grantor's taxable estate while the grantor continues to pay the trust's income taxes. This further reduces the taxable estate without triggering additional gift taxes.
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• Buy, Borrow, Die: This strategy involves holding onto appreciating assets (Buy), borrowing against them for liquidity (Borrow) at low interest rates, and passing the assets to heirs upon death (Die). Because the heirs receive a stepped-up basis, the lifetime of capital gains is erased for tax purposes.
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• Family Limited Partnerships (FLPs): Owners place assets into a partnership and gift minority shares to heirs. Because minority shares lack control and are harder to sell, they are valued at a "discount" by the IRS, significantly reducing the taxable value of the gift.

• Dynasty Trusts: These trusts are designed to last for generations, sometimes hundreds of years, bypassing multiple rounds of estate taxes that would normally occur each time a generation passes.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Control? As in 60 in the Senate to stop the filibuster? (BESIDES THE LESS THAN 60 DAYS OBAMA HAD AS THE US WAS SHEDDING MILLIONS OF JOBS IN 2009)

But yes, Clinton (93) Obama (ACA and partial increasing Dubya's tax cuts for the rich and Sleepy Joe (IRA) DID GET MORE REVENUES

As pointed out BJ Bill did cut spending. Obama, like Sleepy Joe, inherited a shit show from the GOP


BUT THOSE THREE WERE THE ONLY PRESIDENTS SINCE CARTER THAT HANDED THE NEXT GUY A SMALLER DEFICIT THAN WHAT THEY WERE HANDED

Control? As in 60 in the Senate to stop the filibuster?

Clinton raised taxes with fewer than 60 votes in the Senate.

DURR

 

[JonKoch]

Thats funny when you consider that a machine and AI can replace over priced labor. The business owner is where the value is . He creates the need for labor. Labor only creates work. The market determines the value of labor. There has to be a profit to pay a wage. Government is the enemy of profits. CA raised the min wage and people lost their jobs and businesses moved out. Now how much do you make on unemployment

LMAOROG. The old job creators myth huh?



The claim that increasing the minimum wage causes significant job losses is largely considered a myth in recent economic research, which often finds little to no detectable negative impact on employment for moderate increases. While conventional theory suggests higher labor costs reduce hiring, many studies indicate that increased wages do not lead to widespread job losses, but rather boost consumer spending and reduce employee turnover.

 

[JonKoch]

Control? As in 60 in the Senate to stop the filibuster?

Clinton raised taxes with fewer than 60 votes in the Senate.

DURR

• Method: The administration utilized the budget reconciliation process, which allows certain tax and spending legislation to pass with a simple majority.

 

[JonKoch]

Control? As in 60 in the Senate to stop the filibuster?

Clinton raised taxes with fewer than 60 votes in the Senate.

DURR

You going to continue to ignore reality and cherry pick?



SINCE RONNIE REAGAN, EVERY GOP PREZ HAS GUTTED REVENUES AND INCREASED SPENDING

DUBYA/GOP MEDICARE EXPANSION IN 2003 ALONE COSTS $230+ BILLION THIS YEAR, OF COURSE WITHOUT A SINGLE PENNY OF FUNDING

GOP Budget Busting 101​

Thread 'GOP Budget Busting 101'

Apr 6, 2026

OK People let's get to the topic of debt, how we got here ($39+ trillion) and how GOP policy vs Democratic policies influenced it.

If you don't want to bring actual facts or data, just stand off



From 1945 to 1980 the US debt to GDP was shrinking. Measuring the debt via GDP accounts for population growth and inflation, and it's how every credible economist or nation measures revenues and expenses



US debt to GDP ABOUT 119% IN 1945, THE HIGHEST EVER TO THAT TIME


US DEBT TO GDP IN 1980 was 31%

What were we hearing from the GOP at that time? Let's take a ;look at Ronnie...

• JonKoch
• Replies: 72
• Forum: Economy

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[JonKoch]

Thats funny when you consider that a machine and AI can replace over priced labor. The business owner is where the value is . He creates the need for labor. Labor only creates work. The market determines the value of labor. There has to be a profit to pay a wage. Government is the enemy of profits. CA raised the min wage and people lost their jobs and businesses moved out. Now how much do you make on unemployment

Wow, the worlds 4th largest economy, where I'm at, everyone's on unemployment?

 

[Mac-7]

Great idea if you change the fact that the top 1% of earners receive more than the bottom 60% in tax breaks and grants.

Its difficult even for bleeding heart wipe-every-nose libs to give tax breaks to welfare bums who dont pay taxes

I guess the (un) Earned Income Tax Credit comes closest

This year a single baby momma with 3 children will get roughly $5000 more back from the IRS than she paid in

 

[JonKoch]

Its difficult even for bleeding heart wipe-every-nose libs to give tax breaks to welfare bums who dont pay taxes

I guess the (un) Earned Income Tax Credit comes closest

This year a single baby momma with 3 children will get roughly $5000 more back from the IRS than she paid in

THANKS RONNIE, ONE OF THE FEW THINGS HE GOT CORRECT


President Ronald Reagan significantly strengthened the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) as part of the Tax Reform Act of 1986, praising it as a pro-family, anti-poverty tool. He expanded the credit, indexed its parameters for inflation, and aimed to reduce the federal tax burden on low-income families.

• Anti-Poverty Focus: Reagan described the tax reform, which included the EITC expansion, as "the best anti-poverty," "best pro-family," and "best job creation measure to come out of Congress".
• "Work Bonus": The EITC was strongly supported by conservatives under Reagan as a way to "make work pay" and an alternative to traditional welfare.

 

[Mac-7]

THANKS RONNIE, ONE OF HE FEW THINGS HE GOT CORRECT


President Ronald Reagan significantly strengthened the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) as part of the Tax Reform Act of 1986, praising it as a pro-family, anti-poverty tool. He expanded the credit, indexed its parameters for inflation, and aimed to reduce the federal tax burden on low-income families.

• Anti-Poverty Focus: Reagan described the tax reform, which included the EITC expansion, as "the best anti-poverty," "best pro-family," and "best job creation measure to come out of Congress".
• "Work Bonus": The EITC was strongly supported by conservatives under Reagan as a way to "make work pay" and an alternative to traditional welfare.

Yes, Reagan was for it

But he was wrong

The money thrown at those women is largely wasted on gold teeth, big screen tv’s ect

But it is at least a bonanza for the retailers in the hood

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

• Method: The administration utilized the budget reconciliation process, which allows certain tax and spending legislation to pass with a simple majority.

Why didn't Clinton, Obama or Biden raise rates to 70% using reconciliation?