Tariffs are a double-edged sword....

[IsaacNewton]

The initial "rejoicing" by some Trump supporters regarding the imposition of tariffs on steel and aluminum imports, will (unfortunately) soon wear off.

Why???

Actually rather simple, the planned "tax" on imports will never match the lower costs of production in other countries such as Mexico, Canada, China, etc.......BUT, what that tax will certainly do, is raise the cost for all of us (including the domestic steel and aluminum workers') on cars, soda cans, airplane manufacturing, housing, etc.

Plus, the tariffs will surely trigger trade wars on some of our own exports as importers of our products will retaliate by making such products' prices (through their own tariffs) prohibitive for foreign buyers.

So, the "simple solutions" offered by Trump are just another example of his bravado to incite his dwindling base....but, like most things that Trump proposes the cheering and rejoicing will be short-lived even if such proposals were ever to materialize.

We're talking about conservatives here, they just have no clue about economics other than spending trillions of dollars without increasing the income to pay for that. They live in a knee-jerk world where if you make a profit today then that model is solid gold. But it never is. Tariffs are simply cheating in a global economy where the US industry can't compete. And the US isn't the only one doing it other countries do some of this as well, while some of them give subsidies to their industries that can't compete. But in the end it all comes back to who can't compete because wages somewhere else are dirt cheap.

The US though is supposed to be the powerhouse of economics. For us to cheat throws the entire world out of balance, it's like when the Patriots cheat it screws every team in the league. Tariffs have been proven over and over not to work and in fact have huge unintended consequences that hurt almost all sectors of the economy of the country imposing the tariffs. Europe is imposing tariffs on Harley Davidson motorcycles sold there. With HD lucky to be still in business this is just another blow to sales the company can't afford. And motorcycles are made with a lot of steel and aluminum, the price of which is now going up due to tariffs.

Dear IsaacNewton
I wish you'd call into Mark Levin's show
and tell him you AGREE with him. He is
screaming and yelling about conservatives
who sell out for popular politics, and lose their
whole argument against govt meddling in manipulating the market!!!

Thank you, and for once I see the left agreeing
with opponents on the right. Wow. never thought
I'd see that. Levin and others would FLIP to see
intelligent liberals getting this, while conservatives
who supposedly want free market not govt micromanagement
are lost on this issue! WTF???
Why are more liberals getting this and not conservatives???
(last time I was this confounded, it was the conservatives
yelling about freedom of choice not mandates
and the liberals didn't get what was wrong with their own leaders' policies)

You need to take the bifocals from your eyes. All you see are left and right, the world isn't made up that way.

Second Mark Levine is a screaming batshit. An angry radio evangelist that makes money off of his audience whom he dupes into buying the same book over and over and over. He isn't a patriot, he isn't a Christian, he isn't a good person. He's a leech like Jimmy Swaggart and Pat Robertson, and Alex Jones. He scares people into giving him money.

 

[miketx]

The initial "rejoicing" by some Trump supporters regarding the imposition of tariffs on steel and aluminum imports, will (unfortunately) soon wear off.

Why???

Actually rather simple, the planned "tax" on imports will never match the lower costs of production in other countries such as Mexico, Canada, China, etc.......BUT, what that tax will certainly do, is raise the cost for all of us (including the domestic steel and aluminum workers') on cars, soda cans, airplane manufacturing, housing, etc.

Plus, the tariffs will surely trigger trade wars on some of our own exports as importers of our products will retaliate by making such products' prices (through their own tariffs) prohibitive for foreign buyers.

So, the "simple solutions" offered by Trump are just another example of his bravado to incite his dwindling base....but, like most things that Trump proposes the cheering and rejoicing will be short-lived even if such proposals were ever to materialize.

We're talking about conservatives here, they just have no clue about economics other than spending trillions of dollars without increasing the income to pay for that. They live in a knee-jerk world where if you make a profit today then that model is solid gold. But it never is. Tariffs are simply cheating in a global economy where the US industry can't compete. And the US isn't the only one doing it other countries do some of this as well, while some of them give subsidies to their industries that can't compete. But in the end it all comes back to who can't compete because wages somewhere else are dirt cheap.

The US though is supposed to be the powerhouse of economics. For us to cheat throws the entire world out of balance, it's like when the Patriots cheat it screws every team in the league. Tariffs have been proven over and over not to work and in fact have huge unintended consequences that hurt almost all sectors of the economy of the country imposing the tariffs. Europe is imposing tariffs on Harley Davidson motorcycles sold there. With HD lucky to be still in business this is just another blow to sales the company can't afford. And motorcycles are made with a lot of steel and aluminum, the price of which is now going up due to tariffs.

Dear IsaacNewton
I wish you'd call into Mark Levin's show
and tell him you AGREE with him. He is
screaming and yelling about conservatives
who sell out for popular politics, and lose their
whole argument against govt meddling in manipulating the market!!!

Thank you, and for once I see the left agreeing
with opponents on the right. Wow. never thought
I'd see that. Levin and others would FLIP to see
intelligent liberals getting this, while conservatives
who supposedly want free market not govt micromanagement
are lost on this issue! WTF???
Why are more liberals getting this and not conservatives???
(last time I was this confounded, it was the conservatives
yelling about freedom of choice not mandates
and the liberals didn't get what was wrong with their own leaders' policies)

You need to take the bifocals from your eyes. All you see are left and right, the world isn't made up that way.

Second Mark Levine is a screaming batshit. An angry radio evangelist that makes money off of his audience whom he dupes into buying the same book over and over and over. He isn't a patriot, he isn't a Christian, he isn't a good person. He's a leech like Jimmy Swaggart and Pat Robertson, and Alex Jones. He scares people into giving him money.

Gives you heartburn don't it traitor?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The initial "rejoicing" by some Trump supporters regarding the imposition of tariffs on steel and aluminum imports, will (unfortunately) soon wear off.

Why???

Actually rather simple, the planned "tax" on imports will never match the lower costs of production in other countries such as Mexico, Canada, China, etc.......BUT, what that tax will certainly do, is raise the cost for all of us (including the domestic steel and aluminum workers') on cars, soda cans, airplane manufacturing, housing, etc.

Plus, the tariffs will surely trigger trade wars on some of our own exports as importers of our products will retaliate by making such products' prices (through their own tariffs) prohibitive for foreign buyers.

So, the "simple solutions" offered by Trump are just another example of his bravado to incite his dwindling base....but, like most things that Trump proposes the cheering and rejoicing will be short-lived even if such proposals were ever to materialize.

Tariffs are reckless, irresponsible, and unwarranted – they won’t have the desired effect.

They also run counter to free market dogma that ‘conservatives’ are supposed to support.

 

[bgrouse]

Trumps big tariff is no different than him raising taxes on consumers ..

manufacturers get hit with a increase in the production/distribution cost of their product, and pass that increase down to consumers/users ...

Not necessarily. Like I said, business are already run to maximize profit. So more likely than not the owners will eat the reduced profit.

exactly .. so now to keep their profit margin at max levels they raise their price to offset the increase and keep it there.

What does an increased tax have to do with being able to increase prices or reduce wages? If they set their prices at X and wages at Y, it was because consumers were not willing to pay more than X and workers weren't willing to work for less than Y. What does an increased corporate tax have to do with a consumer's willingness to pay more for an item or a worker's willingness to work for less?

there was no increase in tax - the tariff increased the distribution cost .. increased distribution costs are passed on to consumers = trump horse turd

Once again, business already charge as much as they can. It's how business works: to maximize profit.

So, taxing other countries for imports and that is bad as it will add to the cost of products.Taxing corporations and the rich is good as it will add to the cost of products.

Is this the left wing logic?

Why would taxing corporations add to the cost of products (I assume you mean the consumer's price)? Business are generally already operated to maximize profit, so they're already selling for the most and paying their workers the least. Logically, increasing taxes will only cut into the money that's left for the lazy layabouts/owners who inherited it.

In the business I’m in, when taxes go up we raise prices, we pass the cost to the consumer, I don’t know of a business that doesn’t raise the price when the cost of doing business goes up. So the cost is passed to the consumer.

So if your waiter screws up your order and has to redo it (which uses more time and food), your bill doubles?

Trumps big tariff is no different than him raising taxes on consumers ..

manufacturers get hit with a increase in the production/distribution cost of their product, and pass that increase down to consumers/users ...

Not necessarily. Like I said, business are already run to maximize profit. So more likely than not the owners will eat the reduced profit.

exactly .. so now to keep their profit margin at max levels they raise their price to offset the increase and keep it there.

What does an increased tax have to do with being able to increase prices or reduce wages? If they set their prices at X and wages at Y, it was because consumers were not willing to pay more than X and workers weren't willing to work for less than Y. What does an increased corporate tax have to do with a consumer's willingness to pay more for an item or a worker's willingness to work for less?

Dear bgrouse
Look what happens when a company is faced with adding costs of health care benefits
to meet requirements. they either hire part time workers to cover the demands, or they reduce bonuses. They change the easiest factors they can control.


They can't just cut the salaries of their top mgmt,
because if they do, they lose their Experienced staff
who will seek better salaries at other companies
if the one they are at cannot compete with what the market can pay.

Bullshit! You think the CEO of Walmart is going to quit and go work for $10 / hour because his salary went down from $25 million to $24 million? Damn right they cut bonuses! The upper staff often collect from the profit in the form of bonuses to themselves.

If all companies end up having to raise prices,
then they can stay competitive. The shift goes there.

That's why when gas prices rise, so do the prices on food because of the trucking costs going up.
Since all prices across the market go up, then the companies remain competitive
with each other, at the prices the market will bear.

That's the easiest factor to change.
Just pass the buck to the consumer.
Since all companies are feeling the same impact,
they get away with it.

If consumers start buying cheaper online,
then more companies close their storefronts
and start consolidating that way.

BTW when "owners eat the reduced profit"
they still have to cut jobs and bonuses
because they don't have that extra revenue to work with.

So workers and thus consumers are STILL affected.

 

[tyroneweaver]

The initial "rejoicing" by some Trump supporters regarding the imposition of tariffs on steel and aluminum imports, will (unfortunately) soon wear off.

Why???

Actually rather simple, the planned "tax" on imports will never match the lower costs of production in other countries such as Mexico, Canada, China, etc.......BUT, what that tax will certainly do, is raise the cost for all of us (including the domestic steel and aluminum workers') on cars, soda cans, airplane manufacturing, housing, etc.

Plus, the tariffs will surely trigger trade wars on some of our own exports as importers of our products will retaliate by making such products' prices (through their own tariffs) prohibitive for foreign buyers.

So, the "simple solutions" offered by Trump are just another example of his bravado to incite his dwindling base....but, like most things that Trump proposes the cheering and rejoicing will be short-lived even if such proposals were ever to materialize.

/----/ You mean China may increase the tariff on a Jeep by another $30,000 each?

with nat's pension for the hyperbole, why stop there. Jack it up to a 100k. So we can (In my best mark dice voice) descend into trade war hell.

 

[nat4900]

with nat's pension for the hyperbole, why stop there. Jack it up to a 100k. So we can descend into trade war hell.

Your GED classes aren't doing you much good......The word you're looking for is PENCHANT not "pension," you fucking moron....LOL

 

[BluesLegend]

Trumps big tariff is no different than him raising taxes on consumers ..

manufacturers get hit with an increase in the production/distribution cost of their product, and pass that increase down to consumers/users ...



while the RW is busy kissing his old fat ass Trump is playing his sidewalk shell game on their stupid ass.

Obviously its different since you liberal pukes would rejoice over tax increases on consumers.

 

[tyroneweaver]

with nat's pension for the hyperbole, why stop there. Jack it up to a 100k. So we can descend into trade war hell.

Your GED classes aren't doing you much good......The word you're looking for is PENCHANT not "pension," you fucking moron....LOL

So, taxing other countries for imports and that is bad as it will add to the cost of products.Taxing corporations and the rich is good as it will add to the cost of products.

Is this the left wing logic?

Why would taxing corporations add to the cost of products (I assume you mean the consumer's price)? Business are generally already operated to maximize profit, so they're already selling for the most and paying their workers the least. Logically, increasing taxes will only cut into the money that's left for the lazy layabouts/owners who inherited it.

In the business I’m in, when taxes go up we raise prices, we pass the cost to the consumer, I don’t know of a business that doesn’t raise the price when the cost of doing business goes up. So the cost is passed to the consumer.

Farmers and cattlemen can't.

 

[tyroneweaver]

Trumps big tariff is no different than him raising taxes on consumers ..

manufacturers get hit with an increase in the production/distribution cost of their product, and pass that increase down to consumers/users ...



while the RW is busy kissing his old fat ass Trump is playing his sidewalk shell game on their stupid ass.

And what tactic was used to get the ACA passed the SCOTUS?

 

[tyroneweaver]

The initial "rejoicing" by some Trump supporters regarding the imposition of tariffs on steel and aluminum imports, will (unfortunately) soon wear off.

Why???

Actually rather simple, the planned "tax" on imports will never match the lower costs of production in other countries such as Mexico, Canada, China, etc.......BUT, what that tax will certainly do, is raise the cost for all of us (including the domestic steel and aluminum workers') on cars, soda cans, airplane manufacturing, housing, etc.

Plus, the tariffs will surely trigger trade wars on some of our own exports as importers of our products will retaliate by making such products' prices (through their own tariffs) prohibitive for foreign buyers.

So, the "simple solutions" offered by Trump are just another example of his bravado to incite his dwindling base....but, like most things that Trump proposes the cheering and rejoicing will be short-lived even if such proposals were ever to materialize.

We're talking about conservatives here, they just have no clue about economics other than spending trillions of dollars without increasing the income to pay for that. They live in a knee-jerk world where if you make a profit today then that model is solid gold. But it never is. Tariffs are simply cheating in a global economy where the US industry can't compete. And the US isn't the only one doing it other countries do some of this as well, while some of them give subsidies to their industries that can't compete. But in the end it all comes back to who can't compete because wages somewhere else are dirt cheap.

The US though is supposed to be the powerhouse of economics. For us to cheat throws the entire world out of balance, it's like when the Patriots cheat it screws every team in the league. Tariffs have been proven over and over not to work and in fact have huge unintended consequences that hurt almost all sectors of the economy of the country imposing the tariffs. Europe is imposing tariffs on Harley Davidson motorcycles sold there. With HD lucky to be still in business this is just another blow to sales the company can't afford. And motorcycles are made with a lot of steel and aluminum, the price of which is now going up due to tariffs.

SO We have no concept of economics????
Here's the price of wheat over the last 40 years.
If we're such dumb sons a bitches,how'd we feed this nation and stay in business with the voluminous cost of machinery over that time period.

Wheat Prices - 40 Year Historical Chart

 

[task0778]

Trumps big tariff is no different than him raising taxes on consumers ..

manufacturers get hit with a increase in the production/distribution cost of their product, and pass that increase down to consumers/users ...

Not necessarily. Like I said, business are already run to maximize profit. So more likely than not the owners will eat the reduced profit.

Can't imagine where this line of thinking comes from, owners do not eat the reduced profit unless the profit margin was already so large that the new profit margin is still better than other investments. I assume you realize that money flows to where it earns the most profit, so investments in new business or expansion to existing business pretty much dries up in those industries that use steel or aluminum to make their products, because the profit margin is now so much smaller.

It's on a case by case basis, sometimes businesses can raise prices to cover the increased costs of material without much impact in sales, depends on what alternatives your customers have to what you're selling. Or it could be that with the new tariff, foreign goods produced offshore are now cheaper than US goods made here and some US businesses cannot compete here at home or abroad. Which means they go out of business if they can't find some way of staying competitive.

Maybe the profit margin is already too thin for the owners to eat the lost profit so it wouldn't worth while any longer for smaller companies to stay in business without some changes. Maybe they move elsewhere to a non-union state or offshore, or maybe they find other ways to absorb the increased costs of material by reducing labor costs and/or in some other way cut the cost of supply. Maybe they switch to some other metal, maybe they automate some functions or outsource them. Show me some logic or theory that says it's more likely that business owners will just eat the loss in profits, where does that line of reasoning come from?

 

[Siete]

Trumps big tariff is no different than him raising taxes on consumers ..

manufacturers get hit with an increase in the production/distribution cost of their product, and pass that increase down to consumers/users ...



while the RW is busy kissing his old fat ass Trump is playing his sidewalk shell game on their stupid ass.

But it's good that other countries put tariffs on American products. lol

I damn sure wouldnt you or Trump to separate the US from other countries.


yawnnnnnnnnnnnnn

 

[bgrouse]

Trumps big tariff is no different than him raising taxes on consumers ..

manufacturers get hit with a increase in the production/distribution cost of their product, and pass that increase down to consumers/users ...

Not necessarily. Like I said, business are already run to maximize profit. So more likely than not the owners will eat the reduced profit.

Can't imagine where this line of thinking comes from, owners do not eat the reduced profit unless the profit margin was already so large that the new profit margin is still better than other investments. I assume you realize that money flows to where it earns the most profit, so investments in new business or expansion to existing business pretty much dries up in those industries that use steel or aluminum to make their products, because the profit margin is now so much smaller.

It's on a case by case basis, sometimes businesses can raise prices to cover the increased costs of material without much impact in sales, depends on what alternatives your customers have to what you're selling.

Once again, pricing is based on how much the owners/managers think the consumer will pay. I ask again: if the waiter screws up your order and ends up spending double the time and food to make your meal, does he double your bill?

Or it could be that with the new tariff, foreign goods produced offshore are now cheaper than US goods made here and some US businesses cannot compete here at home or abroad. Which means they go out of business if they can't find some way of staying competitive.

Maybe the profit margin is already too thin for the owners to eat the lost profit so it wouldn't worth while any longer for smaller companies to stay in business without some changes. Maybe they move elsewhere to a non-union state or offshore, or maybe they find other ways to absorb the increased costs of material by reducing labor costs and/or in some other way cut the cost of supply. Maybe they switch to some other metal, maybe they automate some functions or outsource them. Show me some logic or theory that says it's more likely that business owners will just eat the loss in profits, where does that line of reasoning come from?

 

[HenryBHough]

Until now I felt that liberals just didn't give a shit about American jobs dying as other nations dump their products on us.

But now I understand that they not only don't give a shit about those jobs....they actively want America to have no industry and so be easy prey for their favorite dictators when the war comes. It's part of the preparations to ensure America loses!

 

[task0778]

Trumps big tariff is no different than him raising taxes on consumers ..

manufacturers get hit with a increase in the production/distribution cost of their product, and pass that increase down to consumers/users ...

Not necessarily. Like I said, business are already run to maximize profit. So more likely than not the owners will eat the reduced profit.

Can't imagine where this line of thinking comes from, owners do not eat the reduced profit unless the profit margin was already so large that the new profit margin is still better than other investments. I assume you realize that money flows to where it earns the most profit, so investments in new business or expansion to existing business pretty much dries up in those industries that use steel or aluminum to make their products, because the profit margin is now so much smaller.

It's on a case by case basis, sometimes businesses can raise prices to cover the increased costs of material without much impact in sales, depends on what alternatives your customers have to what you're selling.

Once again, pricing is based on how much the owners/managers think the consumer will pay. I ask again: if the waiter screws up your order and ends up spending double the time and food to make your meal, does he double your bill?

Or it could be that with the new tariff, foreign goods produced offshore are now cheaper than US goods made here and some US businesses cannot compete here at home or abroad. Which means they go out of business if they can't find some way of staying competitive.

Maybe the profit margin is already too thin for the owners to eat the lost profit so it wouldn't worth while any longer for smaller companies to stay in business without some changes. Maybe they move elsewhere to a non-union state or offshore, or maybe they find other ways to absorb the increased costs of material by reducing labor costs and/or in some other way cut the cost of supply. Maybe they switch to some other metal, maybe they automate some functions or outsource them. Show me some logic or theory that says it's more likely that business owners will just eat the loss in profits, where does that line of reasoning come from?

"Once again, pricing is based on how much the owners/managers think the consumer will pay"

See, here's the problem with that line of thinking: if you think customers will pay X and you make a decent profit then your competitors will find a way to cut their costs so they can charge X-1 and undercut your business. So, a business has to constantly be finding ways to stay competitive on prices or lose marketshare; it does not help when the gov't (Trump) arbitrarily raises your costs of materials needed to produce your products so that now you gotta charge X+1, whereas your foreign competitors are still charging X.

"I ask again: if the waiter screws up your order and ends up spending double the time and food to make your meal, does he double your bill?"

Irrelevant to the conversation, but I'll answer anyway. Any business that is inefficient doesn't last long. The owner may raise prices and possibly get away with it for a short while, but eventually fails. Would you go back to that place? I wouldn't.

 

[bgrouse]

Trumps big tariff is no different than him raising taxes on consumers ..

manufacturers get hit with a increase in the production/distribution cost of their product, and pass that increase down to consumers/users ...

Not necessarily. Like I said, business are already run to maximize profit. So more likely than not the owners will eat the reduced profit.

Can't imagine where this line of thinking comes from, owners do not eat the reduced profit unless the profit margin was already so large that the new profit margin is still better than other investments. I assume you realize that money flows to where it earns the most profit, so investments in new business or expansion to existing business pretty much dries up in those industries that use steel or aluminum to make their products, because the profit margin is now so much smaller.

It's on a case by case basis, sometimes businesses can raise prices to cover the increased costs of material without much impact in sales, depends on what alternatives your customers have to what you're selling.

Once again, pricing is based on how much the owners/managers think the consumer will pay. I ask again: if the waiter screws up your order and ends up spending double the time and food to make your meal, does he double your bill?

Or it could be that with the new tariff, foreign goods produced offshore are now cheaper than US goods made here and some US businesses cannot compete here at home or abroad. Which means they go out of business if they can't find some way of staying competitive.

Maybe the profit margin is already too thin for the owners to eat the lost profit so it wouldn't worth while any longer for smaller companies to stay in business without some changes. Maybe they move elsewhere to a non-union state or offshore, or maybe they find other ways to absorb the increased costs of material by reducing labor costs and/or in some other way cut the cost of supply. Maybe they switch to some other metal, maybe they automate some functions or outsource them. Show me some logic or theory that says it's more likely that business owners will just eat the loss in profits, where does that line of reasoning come from?

"Once again, pricing is based on how much the owners/managers think the consumer will pay"

See, here's the problem with that line of thinking: if you think customers will pay X and you make a decent profit then your competitors will find a way to cut their costs

More bullshit! Unless the business owners are literally so dumb that they can't anticipate a similar response from their competitors, they will almost certainly avoid price wars. Think about it, are oil execs just scraping by on 50-60 thousand dollar salaries, having undercut one another until they can't take another price cut? Are the Waltons or Target execs just getting by because of their price wars?

 

[task0778]

Trumps big tariff is no different than him raising taxes on consumers ..

manufacturers get hit with a increase in the production/distribution cost of their product, and pass that increase down to consumers/users ...

Not necessarily. Like I said, business are already run to maximize profit. So more likely than not the owners will eat the reduced profit.

Can't imagine where this line of thinking comes from, owners do not eat the reduced profit unless the profit margin was already so large that the new profit margin is still better than other investments. I assume you realize that money flows to where it earns the most profit, so investments in new business or expansion to existing business pretty much dries up in those industries that use steel or aluminum to make their products, because the profit margin is now so much smaller.

It's on a case by case basis, sometimes businesses can raise prices to cover the increased costs of material without much impact in sales, depends on what alternatives your customers have to what you're selling.

Once again, pricing is based on how much the owners/managers think the consumer will pay. I ask again: if the waiter screws up your order and ends up spending double the time and food to make your meal, does he double your bill?

Or it could be that with the new tariff, foreign goods produced offshore are now cheaper than US goods made here and some US businesses cannot compete here at home or abroad. Which means they go out of business if they can't find some way of staying competitive.

Maybe the profit margin is already too thin for the owners to eat the lost profit so it wouldn't worth while any longer for smaller companies to stay in business without some changes. Maybe they move elsewhere to a non-union state or offshore, or maybe they find other ways to absorb the increased costs of material by reducing labor costs and/or in some other way cut the cost of supply. Maybe they switch to some other metal, maybe they automate some functions or outsource them. Show me some logic or theory that says it's more likely that business owners will just eat the loss in profits, where does that line of reasoning come from?

"Once again, pricing is based on how much the owners/managers think the consumer will pay"

See, here's the problem with that line of thinking: if you think customers will pay X and you make a decent profit then your competitors will find a way to cut their costs

More bullshit! Unless the business owners are literally so dumb that they can't anticipate a similar response from their competitors, they will almost certainly avoid price wars. Think about it, are oil execs just scraping by on 50-60 thousand dollar salaries, having undercut one another until they can't take another price cut? Are the Waltons or Target execs just getting by because of their price wars?

Sanity has left the building.

 

[bgrouse]

Not necessarily. Like I said, business are already run to maximize profit. So more likely than not the owners will eat the reduced profit.

Can't imagine where this line of thinking comes from, owners do not eat the reduced profit unless the profit margin was already so large that the new profit margin is still better than other investments. I assume you realize that money flows to where it earns the most profit, so investments in new business or expansion to existing business pretty much dries up in those industries that use steel or aluminum to make their products, because the profit margin is now so much smaller.

It's on a case by case basis, sometimes businesses can raise prices to cover the increased costs of material without much impact in sales, depends on what alternatives your customers have to what you're selling.

Once again, pricing is based on how much the owners/managers think the consumer will pay. I ask again: if the waiter screws up your order and ends up spending double the time and food to make your meal, does he double your bill?

Or it could be that with the new tariff, foreign goods produced offshore are now cheaper than US goods made here and some US businesses cannot compete here at home or abroad. Which means they go out of business if they can't find some way of staying competitive.

Maybe the profit margin is already too thin for the owners to eat the lost profit so it wouldn't worth while any longer for smaller companies to stay in business without some changes. Maybe they move elsewhere to a non-union state or offshore, or maybe they find other ways to absorb the increased costs of material by reducing labor costs and/or in some other way cut the cost of supply. Maybe they switch to some other metal, maybe they automate some functions or outsource them. Show me some logic or theory that says it's more likely that business owners will just eat the loss in profits, where does that line of reasoning come from?

"Once again, pricing is based on how much the owners/managers think the consumer will pay"

See, here's the problem with that line of thinking: if you think customers will pay X and you make a decent profit then your competitors will find a way to cut their costs

More bullshit! Unless the business owners are literally so dumb that they can't anticipate a similar response from their competitors, they will almost certainly avoid price wars. Think about it, are oil execs just scraping by on 50-60 thousand dollar salaries, having undercut one another until they can't take another price cut? Are the Waltons or Target execs just getting by because of their price wars?

Sanity has left the building.

So why don't you go ahead and show me all those poor, barely-scraping-by big box store execs that nearly undercut each other out of existence? Start with the Waltons and Walmart's execs.

 

[rshermn]

Until now I felt that liberals just didn't give a shit about American jobs dying as other nations dump their products on us.

But now I understand that they not only don't give a shit about those jobs....they actively want America to have no industry and so be easy prey for their favorite dictators when the war comes. It's part of the preparations to ensure America loses!

Wow. That was a stupid post. We now know your opinion. But no one cares about your opinion, me boy. But, thanks for trying.

 

[Toro]

Tariffs are taxes that redistribute wealth from the many to the few.

Republicans used to be against this type of thing.