Tariffs are a double-edged sword....

[nat4900]

The initial "rejoicing" by some Trump supporters regarding the imposition of tariffs on steel and aluminum imports, will (unfortunately) soon wear off.

Why???

Actually rather simple, the planned "tax" on imports will never match the lower costs of production in other countries such as Mexico, Canada, China, etc.......BUT, what that tax will certainly do, is raise the cost for all of us (including the domestic steel and aluminum workers') on cars, soda cans, airplane manufacturing, housing, etc.

Plus, the tariffs will surely trigger trade wars on some of our own exports as importers of our products will retaliate by making such products' prices (through their own tariffs) prohibitive for foreign buyers.

So, the "simple solutions" offered by Trump are just another example of his bravado to incite his dwindling base....but, like most things that Trump proposes the cheering and rejoicing will be short-lived even if such proposals were ever to materialize.

 

[Cellblock2429]

The initial "rejoicing" by some Trump supporters regarding the imposition of tariffs on steel and aluminum imports, will (unfortunately) soon wear off.

Why???

Actually rather simple, the planned "tax" on imports will never match the lower costs of production in other countries such as Mexico, Canada, China, etc.......BUT, what that tax will certainly do, is raise the cost for all of us (including the domestic steel and aluminum workers') on cars, soda cans, airplane manufacturing, housing, etc.

Plus, the tariffs will surely trigger trade wars on some of our own exports as importers of our products will retaliate by making such products' prices (through their own tariffs) prohibitive for foreign buyers.

So, the "simple solutions" offered by Trump are just another example of his bravado to incite his dwindling base....but, like most things that Trump proposes the cheering and rejoicing will be short-lived even if such proposals were ever to materialize.

/----/ You mean China may increase the tariff on a Jeep by another $30,000 each?

 

[Papageorgio]

So, taxing other countries for imports and that is bad as it will add to the cost of products.Taxing corporations and the rich is good as it will add to the cost of products.

Is this the left wing logic?

 

[task0778]

The OP got wiped out, musta been a little too vociferous but the essential inference is true. The recent steel and aluminum tariffs are going to help workers who produce steel in this country but also drive up the cost of steel here since the cheaper foreign steel will not be available at least at the lower prices that exist now. So, those industries that buy that steel and make products like cars, planes, washing machines, bicycles, and beer cans are going to be more expensive to make here, and that will not be good news for the people employed in those companies, or for US consumers. Which BTW vastly outnumber the steel producing employees.

And then there's the added costs that will come with the pushback in other non-related industries where foreign countries hit us with tariffs on imports into their economies, which always happens. Florida oranges, Kentucky bourbon, Wisconsin Harley, etc., are going to become more expensive elsewhere when Canada, Mexico, the EU, and who knows who else retaliates. Politically they have to.

So: higher costs, higher inflation, higher interest rates, and less competition. I think we just kicked ourselves in the balls economically speaking. And geopolitically speaking that ain't no way to make or keep friends. OK, I get that some countries are screwing us over on some of these trade deals; but there's gotta be smarter ways than this to change the status quo.

 

[emilynghiem]

The initial "rejoicing" by some Trump supporters regarding the imposition of tariffs on steel and aluminum imports, will (unfortunately) soon wear off.

Why???

Actually rather simple, the planned "tax" on imports will never match the lower costs of production in other countries such as Mexico, Canada, China, etc.......BUT, what that tax will certainly do, is raise the cost for all of us (including the domestic steel and aluminum workers') on cars, soda cans, airplane manufacturing, housing, etc.

Plus, the tariffs will surely trigger trade wars on some of our own exports as importers of our products will retaliate by making such products' prices (through their own tariffs) prohibitive for foreign buyers.

So, the "simple solutions" offered by Trump are just another example of his bravado to incite his dwindling base....but, like most things that Trump proposes the cheering and rejoicing will be short-lived even if such proposals were ever to materialize.

Thanks nat4900

Even Mark Levin was arguing the Tariffs are putting the tax burden
on the wrong side of the equation. they historically do not work,
as demonstrated by the previous crash and depression that
was made worse by this type of approach.

What we need is similar to the environmentalist movement to put the cost of hazards in production back on the companies profitting from exploiting resources including workers.

If China is held responsible for paying back all the labor and benefits of their workers, as restitution for sweatshop labor and unsafe work conditions,
then the money they make off this labor can go into developing better
worker conditions instead of feeding the huge Chinese military and govt.

Instead of the US owing China for money we borrow,
we should ask to renegotiate that debt down in exchange
for investment in corrections to the human rights and labor abuses.

We fund that economy when we buy from China,
so we are indirectly responsible for why this market keeps operating
under substandard levels that don't protect the workers but exploit their labor.

The sustainable solutions I have seen for changing the labor dynamic
involve worker owned coops, and setting up campus style housing
jobs and education in place of sweatshops, trafficking and even prisons.

By working with American and Chinese community and national leaders on sustainable reforms, we can settle these debts and damages by investing credits or restitution owed to workers and victims of slave labor or sex trafficking, and finance jobs and management training in converting more production facilities into safe campus style complexes and townships that provide housing, work, education, and health/social services on site to workers.

This would take partnership between the best leadership and ideas from the conservative business communities and the grassroots socialist liberal workers unions, investing in common solutions where all sides of the political spectrum have arrived as similar conclusions -- that the control of the resources has to be localized and managed by the people in order to cover the demands and diversity of these populations.

But these people have to have strong structures in place to work with govt and not against warring factions that disrupt good working relations from top to bottom.

How can we work with China to normalize relations between workers and communities at local levels with top leaders in govt, unless we follow this same model in our own country and fix our problems at the same time?

The people in the middle, the community leaders in businesses and schools, churches and parties, can come together as independents
and form councils and coalitions across states, nations and parties.

If we can agree to pursue and develop the "campus model" for
democratizing the structures and connecting the people with govt,
we can all win, and refinance past debts and damages from abuses
to invest in sustainable systems and reforms that serve and represent
the people and keep nations and govts operating effectively instead
of crashing.

www.rightsfortheworkers.org
www.earnedamnesty.org
based on campus concepts
and HUD legislation for reforming public housing:
www.campusplan.org

 

[bgrouse]

So, taxing other countries for imports and that is bad as it will add to the cost of products.Taxing corporations and the rich is good as it will add to the cost of products.

Is this the left wing logic?

Why would taxing corporations add to the cost of products (I assume you mean the consumer's price)? Business are generally already operated to maximize profit, so they're already selling for the most and paying their workers the least. Logically, increasing taxes will only cut into the money that's left for the lazy layabouts/owners who inherited it.

 

[Meathead]

The initial "rejoicing" by some Trump supporters regarding the imposition of tariffs on steel and aluminum imports, will (unfortunately) soon wear off.

Why???

Actually rather simple, the planned "tax" on imports will never match the lower costs of production in other countries such as Mexico, Canada, China, etc.......BUT, what that tax will certainly do, is raise the cost for all of us (including the domestic steel and aluminum workers') on cars, soda cans, airplane manufacturing, housing, etc.

Plus, the tariffs will surely trigger trade wars on some of our own exports as importers of our products will retaliate by making such products' prices (through their own tariffs) prohibitive for foreign buyers.

So, the "simple solutions" offered by Trump are just another example of his bravado to incite his dwindling base....but, like most things that Trump proposes the cheering and rejoicing will be short-lived even if such proposals were ever to materialize.

Another poster with an amazing grasp of the obvious. Probably get a Nobel for economics.

 

[conserveguy877]

Clearly the OP looks over the fact nobama led us to a 20 trillion deficit. America needs helps. And this has been the plan when Trump started his campaign. America can't get ripped off at this time of the century. The unhinged lefties like this OP... are still living like it's 1995. Reason why they cannot understand the fair trade adjustments.

 

[Siete]

Trumps big tariff is no different than him raising taxes on consumers ..

manufacturers get hit with an increase in the production/distribution cost of their product, and pass that increase down to consumers/users ...



while the RW is busy kissing his old fat ass Trump is playing his sidewalk shell game on their stupid ass.

 

[bgrouse]

Trumps big tariff is no different than him raising taxes on consumers ..

manufacturers get hit with a increase in the production/distribution cost of their product, and pass that increase down to consumers/users ...

Not necessarily. Like I said, business are already run to maximize profit. So more likely than not the owners will eat the reduced profit.

 

[Siete]

Trumps big tariff is no different than him raising taxes on consumers ..

manufacturers get hit with a increase in the production/distribution cost of their product, and pass that increase down to consumers/users ...

Not necessarily. Like I said, business are already run to maximize profit. So more likely than not the owners will eat the reduced profit.

exactly .. so now to keep their profit margin at max levels they raise their price to offset the increase and keep it there.

stop candy coating Trumps horse turds - they're still horse turds.

 

[bgrouse]

Trumps big tariff is no different than him raising taxes on consumers ..

manufacturers get hit with a increase in the production/distribution cost of their product, and pass that increase down to consumers/users ...

Not necessarily. Like I said, business are already run to maximize profit. So more likely than not the owners will eat the reduced profit.

exactly .. so now to keep their profit margin at max levels they raise their price to offset the increase and keep it there.

What does an increased tax have to do with being able to increase prices or reduce wages? If they set their prices at X and wages at Y, it was because consumers were not willing to pay more than X and workers weren't willing to work for less than Y. What does an increased corporate tax have to do with a consumer's willingness to pay more for an item or a worker's willingness to work for less?

 

[Siete]

Trumps big tariff is no different than him raising taxes on consumers ..

manufacturers get hit with a increase in the production/distribution cost of their product, and pass that increase down to consumers/users ...

Not necessarily. Like I said, business are already run to maximize profit. So more likely than not the owners will eat the reduced profit.

exactly .. so now to keep their profit margin at max levels they raise their price to offset the increase and keep it there.

What does an increased tax have to do with being able to increase prices or reduce wages? If they set their prices at X and wages at Y, it was because consumers were not willing to pay more than X and workers weren't willing to work for less than Y. What does an increased corporate tax have to do with a consumer's willingness to pay more for an item or a worker's willingness to work for less?

there was no increase in tax - the tariff increased the distribution cost .. increased distribution costs are passed on to consumers = trump horse turd

 

[nat4900]

Taxing corporations and the rich is good as it will add to the cost of products.

Is this the left wing logic?

Let us know when the rich are struggling as much as the middle class, and let us know when corporations actually EVER pay the statutory tax rate when loopholes have disappeared.....Deal?

 

[IsaacNewton]

The initial "rejoicing" by some Trump supporters regarding the imposition of tariffs on steel and aluminum imports, will (unfortunately) soon wear off.

Why???

Actually rather simple, the planned "tax" on imports will never match the lower costs of production in other countries such as Mexico, Canada, China, etc.......BUT, what that tax will certainly do, is raise the cost for all of us (including the domestic steel and aluminum workers') on cars, soda cans, airplane manufacturing, housing, etc.

Plus, the tariffs will surely trigger trade wars on some of our own exports as importers of our products will retaliate by making such products' prices (through their own tariffs) prohibitive for foreign buyers.

So, the "simple solutions" offered by Trump are just another example of his bravado to incite his dwindling base....but, like most things that Trump proposes the cheering and rejoicing will be short-lived even if such proposals were ever to materialize.

We're talking about conservatives here, they just have no clue about economics other than spending trillions of dollars without increasing the income to pay for that. They live in a knee-jerk world where if you make a profit today then that model is solid gold. But it never is. Tariffs are simply cheating in a global economy where the US industry can't compete. And the US isn't the only one doing it other countries do some of this as well, while some of them give subsidies to their industries that can't compete. But in the end it all comes back to who can't compete because wages somewhere else are dirt cheap.

The US though is supposed to be the powerhouse of economics. For us to cheat throws the entire world out of balance, it's like when the Patriots cheat it screws every team in the league. Tariffs have been proven over and over not to work and in fact have huge unintended consequences that hurt almost all sectors of the economy of the country imposing the tariffs. Europe is imposing tariffs on Harley Davidson motorcycles sold there. With HD lucky to be still in business this is just another blow to sales the company can't afford. And motorcycles are made with a lot of steel and aluminum, the price of which is now going up due to tariffs.

 

[Papageorgio]

So, taxing other countries for imports and that is bad as it will add to the cost of products.Taxing corporations and the rich is good as it will add to the cost of products.

Is this the left wing logic?

Why would taxing corporations add to the cost of products (I assume you mean the consumer's price)? Business are generally already operated to maximize profit, so they're already selling for the most and paying their workers the least. Logically, increasing taxes will only cut into the money that's left for the lazy layabouts/owners who inherited it.

In the business I’m in, when taxes go up we raise prices, we pass the cost to the consumer, I don’t know of a business that doesn’t raise the price when the cost of doing business goes up. So the cost is passed to the consumer.

 

[emilynghiem]

Trumps big tariff is no different than him raising taxes on consumers ..

manufacturers get hit with a increase in the production/distribution cost of their product, and pass that increase down to consumers/users ...

Not necessarily. Like I said, business are already run to maximize profit. So more likely than not the owners will eat the reduced profit.

exactly .. so now to keep their profit margin at max levels they raise their price to offset the increase and keep it there.

What does an increased tax have to do with being able to increase prices or reduce wages? If they set their prices at X and wages at Y, it was because consumers were not willing to pay more than X and workers weren't willing to work for less than Y. What does an increased corporate tax have to do with a consumer's willingness to pay more for an item or a worker's willingness to work for less?

Dear bgrouse
Look what happens when a company is faced with adding costs of health care benefits
to meet requirements. they either hire part time workers to cover the demands, or they reduce bonuses. They change the easiest factors they can control.


They can't just cut the salaries of their top mgmt,
because if they do, they lose their Experienced staff
who will seek better salaries at other companies
if the one they are at cannot compete with what the market can pay.

If all companies end up having to raise prices,
then they can stay competitive. The shift goes there.

That's why when gas prices rise, so do the prices on food because of the trucking costs going up.
Since all prices across the market go up, then the companies remain competitive
with each other, at the prices the market will bear.

That's the easiest factor to change.
Just pass the buck to the consumer.
Since all companies are feeling the same impact,
they get away with it.

If consumers start buying cheaper online,
then more companies close their storefronts
and start consolidating that way.

BTW when "owners eat the reduced profit"
they still have to cut jobs and bonuses
because they don't have that extra revenue to work with.

So workers and thus consumers are STILL affected.

 

[Papageorgio]

Taxing corporations and the rich is good as it will add to the cost of products.

Is this the left wing logic?

Let us know when the rich are struggling as much as the middle class, and let us know when corporations actually EVER pay the statutory tax rate when loopholes have disappeared.....Deal?

Only partially quoting me? Pretty dishonest of you. I’m not going to play your silly games because you want to twist my point.

 

[emilynghiem]

The initial "rejoicing" by some Trump supporters regarding the imposition of tariffs on steel and aluminum imports, will (unfortunately) soon wear off.

Why???

Actually rather simple, the planned "tax" on imports will never match the lower costs of production in other countries such as Mexico, Canada, China, etc.......BUT, what that tax will certainly do, is raise the cost for all of us (including the domestic steel and aluminum workers') on cars, soda cans, airplane manufacturing, housing, etc.

Plus, the tariffs will surely trigger trade wars on some of our own exports as importers of our products will retaliate by making such products' prices (through their own tariffs) prohibitive for foreign buyers.

So, the "simple solutions" offered by Trump are just another example of his bravado to incite his dwindling base....but, like most things that Trump proposes the cheering and rejoicing will be short-lived even if such proposals were ever to materialize.

We're talking about conservatives here, they just have no clue about economics other than spending trillions of dollars without increasing the income to pay for that. They live in a knee-jerk world where if you make a profit today then that model is solid gold. But it never is. Tariffs are simply cheating in a global economy where the US industry can't compete. And the US isn't the only one doing it other countries do some of this as well, while some of them give subsidies to their industries that can't compete. But in the end it all comes back to who can't compete because wages somewhere else are dirt cheap.

The US though is supposed to be the powerhouse of economics. For us to cheat throws the entire world out of balance, it's like when the Patriots cheat it screws every team in the league. Tariffs have been proven over and over not to work and in fact have huge unintended consequences that hurt almost all sectors of the economy of the country imposing the tariffs. Europe is imposing tariffs on Harley Davidson motorcycles sold there. With HD lucky to be still in business this is just another blow to sales the company can't afford. And motorcycles are made with a lot of steel and aluminum, the price of which is now going up due to tariffs.

Dear IsaacNewton
I wish you'd call into Mark Levin's show
and tell him you AGREE with him. He is
screaming and yelling about conservatives
who sell out for popular politics, and lose their
whole argument against govt meddling in manipulating the market!!!

Thank you, and for once I see the left agreeing
with opponents on the right. Wow. never thought
I'd see that. Levin and others would FLIP to see
intelligent liberals getting this, while conservatives
who supposedly want free market not govt micromanagement
are lost on this issue! WTF???
Why are more liberals getting this and not conservatives???
(last time I was this confounded, it was the conservatives
yelling about freedom of choice not mandates
and the liberals didn't get what was wrong with their own leaders' policies)

 

[miketx]

Trumps big tariff is no different than him raising taxes on consumers ..

manufacturers get hit with an increase in the production/distribution cost of their product, and pass that increase down to consumers/users ...



while the RW is busy kissing his old fat ass Trump is playing his sidewalk shell game on their stupid ass.

But it's good that other countries put tariffs on American products. lol