CDZ Squatter Rights

[Onyx]

In the end-should less drastic measures fail-I would have no problem dragging your cold limp body out of my house and off my land.

That does not answer my question. What are you basing the claim that it is "your land" on?

If you maintain it is yours because you live on, look after, and maintain it, then I would acknowledge that it is truly your land.

I have put my life on the line to defend my Country. It would be a mistake to assume I would not defend my home.

Lol, no you didn't.

You sold your soul to a corrupt military-industrial complex that instills terror on the third world to keep the profits rolling in. How many enemies of the state did you cap, killer?

 

[9thIDdoc]

In the end-should less drastic measures fail-I would have no problem dragging your cold limp body out of my house and off my land.

That does not answer my question. What are you basing the claim that it is "your land" on?

If you maintain it is yours because you live on, look after, and maintain it, then I would acknowledge that it is truly your land.

I have put my life on the line to defend my Country. It would be a mistake to assume I would not defend my home.

Lol, no you didn't.

You sold your soul to a corrupt military-industrial complex that instills terror on the third world to keep the profits rolling in. How many enemies of the state did you cap, killer?

Nope, just great training for riding the world of low-life wanna-be thieves.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I get it YOU think no one is entitled to own land

Then YOU (seriously?) would be wrong.

I said right from the gecko that I am for sustained land ownership.

YOU are wrong and until the laws are changed that abolish land ownership you will be wrong and since those laws will never be abolished you will always be wrong

The law is the highest moral authority for mindless tools and sheep.

Like I have said repeatedly in this thread, all of you have failed to give an actual moral justification. No, the government telling you that it is okay to deprive others of a livelihood that you abandon is not a legitimate justification.

That's a completely false premise

that I own land even large tracts of land does not mean that I am depriving anyone of a livelihood

 

[Onyx]

That's a completely false premise

that I own land even large tracts of land does not mean that I am depriving anyone of a livelihood

You only have moral ownership of the land that you sustain. It has yet to be proven that you can make a moral claim to own land which you are not using.

Seriously, is it this hard to come up with a single moral justification? The best argument in this entire thread was argumentum ad populum.

 

[Skull Pilot]

That's a completely false premise

that I own land even large tracts of land does not mean that I am depriving anyone of a livelihood

You only have moral ownership of the land that you sustain. It has yet to be proven that you can make a moral claim to own land which you are not using.

Seriously, is it this hard to come up with a single moral justification? The best argument in this entire thread was argumentum ad populum.

WTF is moral ownership?

And your "morals" and mine are obviously 2 different things
I don't need a moral reason to own any property. If I hold the deed it is mine to do or not do whatever the fuck I please with it

 

[Onyx]

WTF is moral ownership?

What moral justification do you have that you own what you claim you own?

If you cannot give an actual substantive reason to back up your claim, then it holds no weight whatsoever.

I don't need a moral reason to own any property. If I hold the deed it is mine to do or not do whatever the fuck I please with it

If that deed is not justified by any actual reasoning, then your claim is unjust as well. Remember? Back in the day humans used to be able to sell other humans.

You cannot buy or sell what was never yours. You own your body because you are the one that lives in it. You own the land because you are the one that sustains it. If you are not sustaining land that you claim ownership over, then what basis does your claim have?

 

[Skull Pilot]

WTF is moral ownership?

What moral justification do you have that you own what you claim you own?

If you cannot give an actual substantive reason to back up your claim, then it holds no weight whatsoever.

I don't need a moral reason to own any property. If I hold the deed it is mine to do or not do whatever the fuck I please with it

If that deed is not justified by any actual reasoning, then your claim is unjust as well. Remember? Back in the day humans used to be able to sell other humans.

You cannot buy or sell what was never yours. You own your body because you are the one that lives in it. You own the land because you are the one that sustains it. If you are not sustaining land that you claim ownership over, then what basis does your claim have?

If I am paying the taxes on the land I am sustaining it

 

[Onyx]

If I am paying the taxes I am sustaining it

Except that is purely abstract.

By the same merit, I could put a quarter in a piggy bank everyday and claim ownership over anything I want.

 

[Andylusion]

That's a completely false premise

that I own land even large tracts of land does not mean that I am depriving anyone of a livelihood

You only have moral ownership of the land that you sustain. It has yet to be proven that you can make a moral claim to own land which you are not using.

Seriously, is it this hard to come up with a single moral justification? The best argument in this entire thread was argumentum ad populum.

That's your opinion of the arguments made. Not an established fact.

The only person here that agrees with your premise, your morality, and your mythology, is you.

Even those that support general perspective, don't support the rest of your made up crap.

 

[Skull Pilot]

If I am paying the taxes I am sustaining it

Except that is purely abstract.

By the same merit, I could put a quarter in a piggy bank everyday and claim ownership over anything I want.

which is what you're doing with other people's land

 

[xyz]

As far as squatting buildings, I have heard there are some countries and/or municipalities that allow people to squat unoccupied buildings, but this isn't very common.

Usually in most places when squatting a building, the squatters have to have a talk with the owner, and the owner decides to let them stay if they help in the upkeep, say paint the walls, fix up cracks and so on. Of course, they can also get kicked out if the owner wants them out.

There are also some squats where the squatters pay a small nominal fee, and while this may be seen as renting and there is a fine line, the owner is still required to pay property tax on the property, so it might just cover that. Some anarchist squats have actually been run like this, it's more about the opportunity to find something in a specific place. In practice they still function as other squats: guests can stay for free, they have concerts, etc.

 

[Onyx]

That's your opinion of the arguments made. Not an established fact.

Actually it is an established fact. Not one moral justification has been made. Only conjectural statements of ownership, not backed up by anything substantive.

You guys, especially you, have presented nothing besides hot air, conjecture, hyperbole, and emotionally charged rhetoric. That would be okay and all if you could back your position up with reasonable arguments, but.... none such exist.

The only person here that agrees with your premise, your morality, and your mythology, is you.

Argumentum ad populum is a preferred tactic of intellectually dishonest idiots. Just saying.

Even those that support general perspective, don't support the rest of your made up crap.

Not that it would influence the truth if you are correct, but what gives you the right to speak on others behalf.[/QUOTE]

 

[Onyx]

which is what you're doing with other people's land

 

[Onyx]

As far as squatting buildings, I have heard there are some countries and/or municipalities that allow people to squat unoccupied buildings, but this isn't very common.

Usually in most places when squatting a building, the squatters have to have a talk with the owner, and the owner decides to let them stay if they help in the upkeep, say paint the walls, fix up cracks and so on. Of course, they can also get kicked out if the owner wants them out.

There are also some squats where the squatters pay a small nominal fee, and while this may be seen as renting and there is a fine line, the owner is still required to pay property tax on the property, so it might just cover that. Some anarchist squats have actually been run like this, it's more about the opportunity to find something in a specific place. In practice they still function as other squats: guests can stay for free, they have concerts, etc.

A couple points

- Squatting is very common. Every country has abandoned buildings and individuals that do not have property, but are also not wastemen. When it comes down to living in the streets or creating a squat, the choice are clear for most.

- Most of what you said about 'civil' squatting is true, but more often than not the squatters have to pay the property tax too.

- Anarchists squats are pretty common, although I never saw the appeal. It seems like it would be better to just buy off the building overtime rather than have more money stolen just to maintain squat status.

 

[xyz]

It seems like it would be better to just buy off the building overtime rather than have more money stolen just to maintain squat status.

If it's a big building, there's no way they could come up with that kind of money.

 

[WinterBorn]

That's a completely false premise

that I own land even large tracts of land does not mean that I am depriving anyone of a livelihood

You only have moral ownership of the land that you sustain. It has yet to be proven that you can make a moral claim to own land which you are not using.

Seriously, is it this hard to come up with a single moral justification? The best argument in this entire thread was argumentum ad populum.

And who gets to judge whether I am using or maintaining the land? Just because I have not plowed, bulldozer, overbuilt and ruined a piece of land does not mean I do not own it.

Also, most people claim ownership for land because they paid for it. That payment was a direct result of their labors. You do not get to walk in and decide you own it, without any payment to the person who sacrificed time and effort to get it.

 

[WinterBorn]

Okay, since Andylusion and company have committed to deflecting to high heavens, I will pose the question for everybody, since they have shown themselves incapable of answering it.

What moral justification is there to claim ownership over unused land? I have yet to hear a single answer, and my patience for intellectually dishonest tactics like deflection and conjecture is weaning.

First of all, I traded hours, days and even years of work for that property. Now, whether I have done something with it now or will do something in the future, you have no way of determining. I have a piece of rural property that I use for camping, hunting, and as a wildlife sanctuary (with other land owners in the area). Unless you are willing to reimburse me for what I spent buying it (effectively trading time, effort, and sacrificing myself), you do not own it. And what you see as undeveloped, I see as wild. Your squatting would destroy that.

 

[Skull Pilot]

That's a completely false premise

that I own land even large tracts of land does not mean that I am depriving anyone of a livelihood

You only have moral ownership of the land that you sustain. It has yet to be proven that you can make a moral claim to own land which you are not using.

Seriously, is it this hard to come up with a single moral justification? The best argument in this entire thread was argumentum ad populum.

And who gets to judge whether I am using or maintaining the land? Just because I have not plowed, bulldozer, overbuilt and ruined a piece of land does not mean I do not own it.

Also, most people claim ownership for land because they paid for it. That payment was a direct result of their labors. You do not get to walk in and decide you own it, without any payment to the person who sacrificed time and effort to get it.

see HE wants to tell you if you are "sustaining" your own land to his standards if you're not he thinks he can claim it as his own

 

[WinterBorn]

That's a completely false premise

that I own land even large tracts of land does not mean that I am depriving anyone of a livelihood

You only have moral ownership of the land that you sustain. It has yet to be proven that you can make a moral claim to own land which you are not using.

Seriously, is it this hard to come up with a single moral justification? The best argument in this entire thread was argumentum ad populum.

And who gets to judge whether I am using or maintaining the land? Just because I have not plowed, bulldozer, overbuilt and ruined a piece of land does not mean I do not own it.

Also, most people claim ownership for land because they paid for it. That payment was a direct result of their labors. You do not get to walk in and decide you own it, without any payment to the person who sacrificed time and effort to get it.

see HE wants to tell you if you are "sustaining" your own land to his standards if you're not he thinks he can claim it as his own

If he wants a place to live he can earn it like everyone else.

 

[WinterBorn]

Here is why I say I own the land.

As an example, I will use my piece of rural land. I paid $12k for it some years ago. At the time, I was making around $85k as a lineman (utility, not football). I was losing around 30% in various taxes. So my net was just under $60k a year. If I had put every penny I made towards the land. It would have taken just over 10 weeks to pay for the land. So for 10 weeks I was risking injury or death, spending untold hours doing hard physical work, sacrificing time with my family, missing out on plenty of things, and generally giving up much of my life in exchange for that property.

In other words, I paid for my land with blood, sweat, and sacrifice. You don't get to take it simply because you think you should have it.