2nd Amendment, Scalia and what the Founders meant: Commas, Common Sense and Justice. The question is how to interpret the comma after 'free state.'

But it's not unlimited. Heller recognized that the Second Amendment does not protect "dangerous and unusual weapons" and stated that "M-16 rifles and the like" may be banned. However, the Court did not clearly define which weapons fall within that category, leaving substantial room for dispute in subsequent Second Amendment litigation.
I'd give up talking to that moron. All he's good for is "fake news" "TDS" "Duhhhhh", I think his knuckles must hurt something chronic from them dragging on the floor every day.

You can present evidence to him, and he'll just say "no". No argument coming back, just pure MAGA dumbshit.
 
I'd give up talking to that moron. All he's good for is "fake news" "TDS" "Duhhhhh", I think his knuckles must hurt something chronic from them dragging on the floor every day.

You can present evidence to him, and he'll just say "no". No argument coming back, just pure MAGA dumbshit.
the court has ruled several times, and it is an individual right not connected to the militia ad it encompasses any weapon that is of use or in use by the military or in common use in the civilian world.
 
the court has ruled several times, and it is an individual right not connected to the militia ad it encompasses any weapon that is of use or in use by the military or in common use in the civilian world.
They hate the truth, and rather than accept it, they choose to lie about it.
 
But it's not unlimited. Heller recognized that the Second Amendment does not protect "dangerous and unusual weapons" and stated that "M-16 rifles and the like" may be banned. However, the Court did not clearly define which weapons fall within that category, leaving substantial room for dispute in subsequent Second Amendment litigation.

No where in Heller did it say M-16s could be banned.

In particular, no where did it say that AR=15s could be banned. And Scalia, the author of the Heller opinion and Thomas, later stated in their dissent in Friedman v Highland Park.....

There are now over 32 million AR-15 rifles in private hands......

======
That analysis misreads Heller. The question under Heller is not whether citizens have adequate alternatives available for self-defense. Rather, Heller asks whether the law bans types of firearms commonly used for a lawful purpose—regardless of whether alternatives exist. 554 U. S., at 627–629. And Heller draws a distinction between such firearms and weapons specially adapted to unlawful uses and not in common use, such as sawed-off shotguns. Id., at 624–625. The City’s ban is thus highly suspect because it broadly prohibits common semiautomatic firearms used for lawful purposes.

Roughly five million Americans own AR-style semiautomatic rifles. See 784 F. 3d, at 415, n. 3. The overwhelming majority of citizens who own and use such rifles do so for lawful purposes, including self-defense and target shooting. See ibid. Under our precedents, that is all that is needed for citizens to have a right under the Second Amendment to keep such weapons. See McDonald, 561 U. S., at 767–768; Heller, supra, at 628–629.

========


======
The most commonly cited estimates are:

  • About 24.4 million AR-15/modern sporting rifles in civilian circulation as of 2020, according to the firearm industry trade association, the National Shooting Sports Foundation.
  • About 28.1 million in circulation as of 2021.
  • About 30.7 million in circulation as of 2022.
  • About 32 million in circulation as of 2023, according to the NSSF's latest production-based estimate.
 
Did militiamen have cannons?

The answer is no.

A militiaman's weaponry was a musket. Not a cannon.
Yes. There was cannon at the militia armory the British wer marching to seize at the Battle of Lexington and Concord.
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Militia Artillery Units in the American Revolutionary War​

During the American Revolutionary War (1775–1783), the colonial militia formed the backbone of the Patriot forces, but they were not a full-time, professional army. Instead, they were part-time, locally organized volunteer units drawn from adult male citizens, often farmers, artisans, and tradespeople grokipedia.com. While most militia units were infantry, some states and commanders raised artillery components to supplement the Continental Army’s firepower.

Role and Organization​

  • Artillery in the militia was typically light field artillery, not heavy siege guns. These were often muskets with long barrels or light cannons (like 3–6 pounders) mounted on carts or wagons.
  • Artillery was usually attached to infantry regiments rather than forming independent units. For example, Connecticut’s militia regiments sometimes included light dragoon or artillery companies alongside foot and horse units Wikiwand +1.
  • Artillery service was short-term—often weeks or months—because militia members were expected to return to civilian life after the threat passed grokipedia.com.
  • Many militia artillerymen were volunteers who could also serve as infantry, and they often provided their own weapons and equipment Wikipedia.

Examples of Militia Artillery Units​

While comprehensive state-by-state lists of artillery companies are limited, some known militia units that included artillery or light gunnery roles include:

  • Governor’s Foot Guards (Connecticut) – sometimes equipped with light guns for ceremonial or defensive use Wikiwand .
  • Seymour’s Regiment of Light Dragoons (Connecticut) – light cavalry with potential for artillery support in skirmishes Wikiwand .
  • 1st Battalion State Regiment (Connecticut) – included artillery components alongside infantry Wikiwand .
  • Various militia regiments in states like Massachusetts, New York, and Virginia often had artillery companies attached for specific campaigns, especially in the Southern theater where mobility was key grokipedia.com.

Tactical Use​

  • Militia artillery was used for defensive positions, supporting infantry assaults, and harassing British lines in skirmishes.
  • In the Southern campaigns, partisan militia bands sometimes used light artillery to disrupt British supply lines and communications grokipedia.com.
  • Because militia artillery was less disciplined and less mobile than the Continental Army’s, it was often deployed in support roles rather than as the main offensive arm.

Summary​

Militia artillery units in the Revolutionary War were light, mobile, and irregular compared to the Continental Army’s standardized artillery. They were integrated into infantry regiments, often provided by volunteers, and used primarily for support and harassment rather than sustained siege operations. Their existence reflected the need to supplement the Continental Army’s firepower with locally available manpower and resources Wikipedia+2."
 
the court has ruled several times, and it is an individual right not connected to the militia ad it encompasses any weapon that is of use or in use by the military or in common use in the civilian world.
Nobody is talking about it not being an individual right.

What are reading to come up with that answer?

Imagine what it looks like. I write something, you reply to something completely different.

Either you're not reading what I'm writing, or you don't understand what I'm writing. What's worse?

You have M14 Shooter agreeing with you. This is a guy who just says "no" to everything. You want to be in the same boat as someone who is incapable of making an argument? Probably.

You people only care about getting what you want. You don't care what people have to say. If you think it goes against what you want, you just pull out the same arguments you've been using for years, regardless of whether the person is even talking about that thing or not.

It's ridiculous.

MAGA people on this forum make MAGA supporters look like idiots. Probably because they are.
 
Nobody is talking about it not being an individual right.

What are reading to come up with that answer?

Imagine what it looks like. I write something, you reply to something completely different.

Either you're not reading what I'm writing, or you don't understand what I'm writing. What's worse?
you want to restrict the right so go play your word games with someone else.
 
Yes. There was cannon at the militia armory the British wer marching to seize at the Battle of Lexington and Concord.
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Militia Artillery Units in the American Revolutionary War​

During the American Revolutionary War (1775–1783), the colonial militia formed the backbone of the Patriot forces, but they were not a full-time, professional army. Instead, they were part-time, locally organized volunteer units drawn from adult male citizens, often farmers, artisans, and tradespeople grokipedia.com. While most militia units were infantry, some states and commanders raised artillery components to supplement the Continental Army’s firepower.

Role and Organization​

  • Artillery in the militia was typically light field artillery, not heavy siege guns. These were often muskets with long barrels or light cannons (like 3–6 pounders) mounted on carts or wagons.
  • Artillery was usually attached to infantry regiments rather than forming independent units. For example, Connecticut’s militia regiments sometimes included light dragoon or artillery companies alongside foot and horse units Wikiwand +1.
  • Artillery service was short-term—often weeks or months—because militia members were expected to return to civilian life after the threat passed grokipedia.com.
  • Many militia artillerymen were volunteers who could also serve as infantry, and they often provided their own weapons and equipment Wikipedia.

Examples of Militia Artillery Units​

While comprehensive state-by-state lists of artillery companies are limited, some known militia units that included artillery or light gunnery roles include:

  • Governor’s Foot Guards (Connecticut) – sometimes equipped with light guns for ceremonial or defensive use Wikiwand .
  • Seymour’s Regiment of Light Dragoons (Connecticut) – light cavalry with potential for artillery support in skirmishes Wikiwand .
  • 1st Battalion State Regiment (Connecticut) – included artillery components alongside infantry Wikiwand .
  • Various militia regiments in states like Massachusetts, New York, and Virginia often had artillery companies attached for specific campaigns, especially in the Southern theater where mobility was key grokipedia.com.

Tactical Use​

  • Militia artillery was used for defensive positions, supporting infantry assaults, and harassing British lines in skirmishes.
  • In the Southern campaigns, partisan militia bands sometimes used light artillery to disrupt British supply lines and communications grokipedia.com.
  • Because militia artillery was less disciplined and less mobile than the Continental Army’s, it was often deployed in support roles rather than as the main offensive arm.

Summary​

Militia artillery units in the Revolutionary War were light, mobile, and irregular compared to the Continental Army’s standardized artillery. They were integrated into infantry regiments, often provided by volunteers, and used primarily for support and harassment rather than sustained siege operations. Their existence reflected the need to supplement the Continental Army’s firepower with locally available manpower and resources Wikipedia+2."

Oh great, you copied and pasted AI.

Here's the thing. Westwall made a claim that there was privately owned cannon.

What your AI says is "some states and commanders raised artillery components"

So, you haven't proven anything. One thing says that that cannon was provided by the states. Well, that goes against the argument.

The other states that "commanders" provided cannon. Well, that needs to be specified what it means. Because it's too vague to be of use. Which commanders?

Also I have stated that "arms" is something a person can carry on their own. A cannon required a lot of people to make it function.

Just because you can have something, doesn't mean it's a right.

Also, that the ordinary militia men, according to the AI you posted, did not have cannon, kind of supports my argument.
 
Oh great, you copied and pasted AI.

Here's the thing. Westwall made a claim that there was privately owned cannon.

What your AI says is "some states and commanders raised artillery components"

So, you haven't proven anything. One thing says that that cannon was provided by the states. Well, that goes against the argument.

The other states that "commanders" provided cannon. Well, that needs to be specified what it means. Because it's too vague to be of use. Which commanders?

Also I have stated that "arms" is something a person can carry on their own. A cannon required a lot of people to make it function.

Just because you can have something, doesn't mean it's a right.

Also, that the ordinary militia men, according to the AI you posted, did not have cannon, kind of supports my argument.
The COLONIES didn’t arm the militias. The members provided their own weapons. The Second also allowed citizens to own private warships. Ever hear of privateers?
 
The COLONIES didn’t arm the militias. The members provided their own weapons. The Second also allowed citizens to own private warships. Ever hear of privateers?

Yes, I know.

Now, back to that argument Westwall was making.

His argument is that people armed themselves with cannon. So, that if people armed themselves with cannon in the past, therefore they can arm themselves with artillery in the modern era.

I'm asking for EVIDENCE of this.

Westwall said "look, I have a webpage that has the evidence" but after repeated asking, was unable to provide a single fact, a single quote, a single anything.

You have also provided NOTHING.

WHO had cannon? Which individuals had cannon?

Even then it doesn't matter unless it was a usual weapon for normal militiamen to have, which your AI said was not the case. But just for shits and giggles, try and prove Westwall right, because Westwall gave up without providing a single thing, other than insults.
 
Boon
Yes, I know.

Now, back to that argument Westwall was making.

His argument is that people armed themselves with cannon. So, that if people armed themselves with cannon in the past, therefore they can arm themselves with artillery in the modern era.

I'm asking for EVIDENCE of this.

Westwall said "look, I have a webpage that has the evidence" but after repeated asking, was unable to provide a single fact, a single quote, a single anything.

You have also provided NOTHING.

WHO had cannon? Which individuals had cannon?

Even then it doesn't matter unless it was a usual weapon for normal militiamen to have, which your AI said was not the case. But just for shits and giggles, try and prove Westwall right, because Westwall gave up without providing a single thing, other than insults.
[/QUOTE
Boonesboro in Kentucky had at least one privately owned cannon. At least one of the private fort/trading posts on the Great Plains had cannon and swivel guns.
 
I post my opinions and facts I remember. I don’t owe you proof or even courtesy given your attitude.
Ah, yes. You post "what you remember"..... :rolleyes:

How about you actually go out and find the facts and the statistics.

No, you don't owe me anything. You don't even need to come on this forum. You don't need to try.

However, I've found, that by searching for the facts and the statistics, I get a much better understanding of the topic for myself. Which is why I understand the topic much better than the MAGA fools who come on here and post their "opinions and what they remember". Which isn't ******* much, is it?


This isn't just you. It's EVERY MAGA person on this forum. Every single one is incapable of looking for facts and statistics. EVERY SINGLE ONE. What does that say.

You say I have a bad attitude. I do. Because I come on here every day and I have to deal with people who's response to me posting the evidence, making the argument as best as I can, is "no, you're wrong".

They don't even try. They just say "no, you're wrong".

You can see Westwall doing it on this thread, you can see M14 Shooter doing it. So why should I have a good attitude towards people who put no effort into anything?

You're lucky I even bother replying to you.
 
Ah, yes. You post "what you remember"..... :rolleyes:

How about you actually go out and find the facts and the statistics.

No, you don't owe me anything. You don't even need to come on this forum. You don't need to try.

However, I've found, that by searching for the facts and the statistics, I get a much better understanding of the topic for myself. Which is why I understand the topic much better than the MAGA fools who come on here and post their "opinions and what they remember". Which isn't ******* much, is it?


This isn't just you. It's EVERY MAGA person on this forum. Every single one is incapable of looking for facts and statistics. EVERY SINGLE ONE. What does that say.

You say I have a bad attitude. I do. Because I come on here every day and I have to deal with people who's response to me posting the evidence, making the argument as best as I can, is "no, you're wrong".

They don't even try. They just say "no, you're wrong".

You can see Westwall doing it on this thread, you can see M14 Shooter doing it. So why should I have a good attitude towards people who put no effort into anything?

You're lucky I even bother replying to you.
Please don’t
 
15th post
The Second Amendment extends, prima facie,to all instruments that constitute bearable arms - those in common use, or commonly chosen for use, for lawful purposes.
The AR15, and the like, are "commonly available"*, in common use, and commonly chosen for use, for lawful purposes, and are, therefore "bearable arms".
As such, they, by definition, cannot be dangerous and unusual, and, under the 2nd Amendment, cannot be banned.
Your argument overreads Heller. “In common use” is not a magic phrase that automatically immunizes any popular firearm from regulation. Heller recognized both that protected arms are commonly used for lawful purposes and that “dangerous and unusual weapons” may be banned, expressly noting that “M-16 rifles and the like” are outside the protected core. District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570, 624–27, 627 n.26 (2008)

An AR-15 may be common in the market, but market prevalence is not the same as constitutional protection. Bruen requires a historical-tradition analysis, not a purely popularity-based test. New York State Rifle & Pistol Ass’n v. Bruen, 597 U.S. 1 (2022)

Common ownership is relevant, but it is not dispositive. The constitutional question remains whether the weapon falls within the historical tradition of arms the Second Amendment protects, or instead within the category of dangerous and unusual weapons that Heller said may be prohibited. District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)
It did. See above.


* "Commonly available", per Justice Kagan, Sotomayor and Jackson in Cargill, dissent
Sorry,
Heller did not clearly and exhaustively define the category. It used broad language, preserved the “dangerous and unusual weapons” limitation, and gave “M-16 rifles and the like” as an example, but it did not provide a line-drawing rule for every modern firearm. District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570, 624–27, 627 n.26 (2008).

Also, citing “commonly available” from a Cargill dissent does not establish Second Amendment law. A dissent is not binding, and Cargill was not a Second Amendment case. Garland v. Cargill, 602 U.S. 406 (2024).

Popularity is relevant, but it is not dispositive. The actual constitutional question remains whether the arm fits within the protected category under Heller and Bruen. District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008); New York State Rifle & Pistol Ass’n v. Bruen, 597 U.S. 1 (2022).
 
Your argument overreads Heller. “In common use” is not a magic phrase that automatically immunizes any popular firearm from regulation. Heller recognized both that protected arms are commonly used for lawful purposes and that “dangerous and unusual weapons” may be banned, expressly noting that “M-16 rifles and the like” are outside the protected core. District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570, 624–27, 627 n.26 (2008)

An AR-15 may be common in the market, but market prevalence is not the same as constitutional protection. Bruen requires a historical-tradition analysis, not a purely popularity-based test. New York State Rifle & Pistol Ass’n v. Bruen, 597 U.S. 1 (2022)

Common ownership is relevant, but it is not dispositive. The constitutional question remains whether the weapon falls within the historical tradition of arms the Second Amendment protects, or instead within the category of dangerous and unusual weapons that Heller said may be prohibited. District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

Sorry,
Heller did not clearly and exhaustively define the category. It used broad language, preserved the “dangerous and unusual weapons” limitation, and gave “M-16 rifles and the like” as an example, but it did not provide a line-drawing rule for every modern firearm. District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570, 624–27, 627 n.26 (2008).

Also, citing “commonly available” from a Cargill dissent does not establish Second Amendment law. A dissent is not binding, and Cargill was not a Second Amendment case. Garland v. Cargill, 602 U.S. 406 (2024).

Popularity is relevant, but it is not dispositive. The actual constitutional question remains whether the arm fits within the protected category under Heller and Bruen. District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008); New York State Rifle & Pistol Ass’n v. Bruen, 597 U.S. 1 (2022).
in 39 the court held a weapon must be of use or in use by the military. Thus, an ar-15 is protected.
 
Your argument overreads Heller. “In common use” is not a magic phrase that automatically immunizes any popular firearm from regulation.
Your statement is false, and you knew it was false when you made it
"In common use for traditionally legal purposes" is the term the court uses to decide if a firearm qualifies as a "bearable arm" and thus falls under the protections of the 2nd
Heller recognized both that protected arms are commonly used for lawful purposes and that “dangerous and unusual weapons” may be banned, expressly noting that “M-16 rifles and the like” are outside the protected core. District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570, 624–27, 627 n.26 (2008)
Your prove my claim, above. Thank you
An AR-15 may be common in the market, but market prevalence is not the same as constitutional protection.
The AR15(et al) is the most popular rifle in America, commonly available, in common use, and commonly chosen for use, for just about every legal purpose there is for a firearm - if the AR15s level of availability, use, and choice for use does not meet Heller's "in common use and thus is a bearable arm, protected by the 2nd" test, then no firearm does.
Bruen requires a historical-tradition analysis, not a purely popularity-based test. New York State Rifle & Pistol Ass’n v. Bruen, 597 U.S. 1 (2022)
Thank you for demonstrating you do not understand Bruen
Hint: the historical-tradition analysis is the 2nd step, independent from the 1st.
We're discussing the 1st step.
The constitutional question remains whether the weapon falls within the historical tradition of arms the Second Amendment protects, or instead within the category of dangerous and unusual weapons that Heller said may be prohibited. District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)
Thank you for again demonstrating you do not understand Heller, Caetano or Bruen.
Hint: the historical-tradition analysis is the 2nd step, independent of the 1st.
We're discussing the 1st step.
Heller did not clearly and exhaustively define the category. It used broad language,
It did, and intentionally so -- and, unquestionably, the AR15(et al) meets the requirements of that language.
Also, citing “commonly available” from a Cargill dissent does not establish Second Amendment law.
I didn't say it did. I used the words of the lunatic anti-gun liberal justices to support and expand my point.
If a firearm is commonly available, commonly used, and commonly chosen for use for traditionally lawful purposes, it qualifies as a "bearable arm" and falls under the protection of the 2nd Amendment.
This describes the AR15(et al)
You cannot demonstrate otherwise.
The actual constitutional question remains whether the arm fits within the protected category under Heller and Bruen. District of Columbia v. Heller,
Thank you for further demonstrating you do not understand Bruen
Hint: The historical-tradition analysis is the 2nd step, independent of the 1st.
We're discussing the 1st step.

 
Last edited:
in 39 the court held a weapon must be of use or in use by the military. Thus, an ar-15 is protected.
There's no factual or rational basis for the proposition the AR15(et al) do not meet each and every test necessary to qualify as a "bearable arm" and thus fall under the protection of the 2nd.
They will dance around it, they will lie about it, but they will not demonstrate otherwise.
 
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