Sovereignty??

[Gungnir]

To steal private property? Sure there are. So much for the ideals of individual rights and property rights.

I extend those right only to citizens of this country; and when convenient to certain allies in their countries.

Umm, no actually. Its derived from the Constitution. Nothing in there about profiability to the American people.

The President has the authority to use the military in undeclared actions as well as the Congress having the ability to grant letters of Marque -- things to be decided on the metric of profitability.

So your willing to let innocent Burmese civilians die because of the idiotic Burmese government? Nice.

Yes. I am willing to cease all foreign to reduce the Federal Deficit as well.

 

[Larkinn]

I extend those right only to citizens of this country; and when convenient to certain allies in their countries.

Well have fun when all foreign businesses pull out of the United States. So much for free trade.

The President has the authority to use the military in undeclared actions as well as the Congress having the ability to grant letters of Marque -- things to be decided on the metric of profitability.

Actually its things to be decided on whatever they feel should be decided on, not some metric you just made up.

Yes. I am willing to cease all foreign to reduce the Federal Deficit as well.

Well good to know your an utter bastard. And an idiot as well. You do know that foreign aid actually helps the US, yes?

 

[Annie]

No, actually it IS being delivered to the people, its just being used as a propaganda tool. That aid is saving lives, and no amount of your whining and bitching about it changes that fact.



Do you think the US sent torturers to protect the people of Iraq? Funny how your views change if we are talking about UN personnel v. US personnel that commit atrocities.



Idiot. The Junta is going to take the aid the US gives as well. I don't hear you condemning the US, why is that? And actually we should make the UN able to enforce its own edicts via an international military. Oh wait, you don't want that. You want it to be able to enforce its edicts by saying "hey...you...do x" and everyone falling in line. Well no shit its not happening just like that.

Same old bullshit. People criticize the UN for failing to have the power to do what they themselves specifically don't want the UN to have the power to do.

The UN is the power behind the rapes and abuse of many a country. Their mandate was to make a place to talk to avoid armed conflicts between nations, starting with Korea, that seems not to have worked out too well. Perhaps it's time to throw out this Wilsonian idea, it's been as effective as Versailles Treaty and the 14 points.

 

[Larkinn]

The UN is the power behind the rapes and abuse of many a country.

As is the US. These isolated incidents aren't generalized onto the entire US military, so why would you generalize them onto the entire un?

Their mandate was to make a place to talk to avoid armed conflicts between nations, starting with Korea, that seems not to have worked out too well.

Perhaps you should figure out what their mandate actually was before saying that its failed that mandate. By the way, if the ONLY thing it was supposed to do was give a forum to states to talk, its succeeded. See the hundreds of treaties that are affiliated are linked to the UN.

Perhaps it's time to throw out this Wilsonian idea, it's been as effective as Versailles Treaty and the 14 points.

Except for, you know, the succeesess I posted...

 

[Swamp Fox]

Nice strawman. By the way, their "permission" gets you a strong international coalition with lots of other countries providing troops, money, and support.

Compare Iraq War I with UN support and 200,000 non-US troops and Iraq War 2 with no UN support and 50,000 non-US troops.

Country Number of Troops Comments / Major Events
United States 575,000 - 697,000
Saudi Arabia 52,000 - 100,000
United Kingdom 43,000 - 45,400
Egypt 33,600 - 35,000
France 18,000
Syria 14,500
Morocco 13,000
Kuwait 9,900
Oman 6,300
Pakistan 4,900 - 5,500
United Arab Emirates 4,300
Qatar 2,600
Bangladesh 2,200
Canada 2,000
Australia 1,800
Italy 1,200
Netherlands 600
Niger 600
Senegal 500
Spain 500
Bahrain 400
Belgium 400
Afghanistan 300
Argentina 300
Czechoslovakia 200
Greece 200
Poland 200
South Korea 200
Philippines 200[citation needed] Medical personnel
Denmark 100
Hungary 50
Norway 280

So the half a million US troops wouldn't have been able to win without the 100 from Denmark, 50 from Hungary or 280 from Norway.

Your "argument", if it can even be called that was that it wasn't the US's fault. Considering this is irrelevant since the UN got food in first and saved lives before the US did because of the legitimacy the UN has, and the legitimacy the US lacks.

But did the food get to the people it was supposed to or did the UN give it to the junta and pat themselves on the back for their goodwill and effort?

Actually no, its considered international territory. Even if it wasn't reposessing it strikes of socialism. But then I guess it would be expected that someone like you would have a fair degree of self-hatred.

How can part of New York City be international territory? Thant's like saying we own part of Paris.

Wow, where did that come from? Projecting much?

Hardly, since I am not a liberal nor an asshole.

 

[Annie]

As is the US. These isolated incidents aren't generalized onto the entire US military, so why would you generalize them onto the entire un?

really? Want to trade link for link?


Perhaps you should figure out what their mandate actually was before saying that its failed that mandate. By the way, if the ONLY thing it was supposed to do was give a forum to states to talk, its succeeded. See the hundreds of treaties that are affiliated are linked to the UN.

hmm, maybe you should read their mission statement, based upon ther founding? Yes, they talk and prevent zip problems.

Except for, you know, the succeesess I posted...

right, those were so long lasting. Really made the world a better place. Not.

 

[Swamp Fox]

right, those were so long lasting. Really made the world a better place. Not.

Give it up Kathianne, Parkin is convinced that the UN is the new GOD!

 

[Larkinn]

Country Number of Troops Comments / Major Events
United States 575,000 - 697,000
Saudi Arabia 52,000 - 100,000
United Kingdom 43,000 - 45,400
Egypt 33,600 - 35,000
France 18,000
Syria 14,500
Morocco 13,000
Kuwait 9,900
Oman 6,300
Pakistan 4,900 - 5,500
United Arab Emirates 4,300
Qatar 2,600
Bangladesh 2,200
Canada 2,000
Australia 1,800
Italy 1,200
Netherlands 600
Niger 600
Senegal 500
Spain 500
Bahrain 400
Belgium 400
Afghanistan 300
Argentina 300
Czechoslovakia 200
Greece 200
Poland 200
South Korea 200
Philippines 200[citation needed] Medical personnel
Denmark 100
Hungary 50
Norway 280

So the half a million US troops wouldn't have been able to win without the 100 from Denmark, 50 from Hungary or 280 from Norway.

Wow, are you honestly this dishonest? I was thinking of maybe the 100k from Saudi Arabia, or the 50k from Britain. I think those troops helped just a tad. Perhaps why the US begged for troops for this little incursion as well.

But did the food get to the people it was supposed to or did the UN give it to the junta and pat themselves on the back for their goodwill and effort?

Some of it got to the people. The UN had no control over where it went once it was in there. They preferred to give it to them in the hopes of saving some lives, which was absolutely the correct choice.

How can part of New York City be international territory? Thant's like saying we own part of Paris.

We do. Read a little bit about embassies and how they work.

 

[Larkinn]

right, those were so long lasting. Really made the world a better place. Not.

Actually, as the RAND organization says, they were. And yes, I think the peaceful resolution of conflicts does make the world a better place.

really? Want to trade link for link?

And that will prove what, exactly?

hmm, maybe you should read their mission statement, based upon ther founding? Yes, they talk and prevent zip problems.

Try reading their charter. And actually they do a lot more than talk. And tell me exactly how you know that they prevent no problems? If they prevented a problem, would you know about it?

 

[Gungnir]

So much for free trade.

Countries should favor their own.

Actually its things to be decided on whatever they feel should be decided on, not some metric you just made up.

I do not understand what you are saying. The Quasiwar and Babary Pirates War were deemed profitable to our interest, otherwise we wouldn't have involved ourselves in those undeclared wars.

Well good to know your an utter bastard. And an idiot as well. You do know that foreign aid actually helps the US, yes?

I know who my father is. We are in DEBT, lots of it. I cut leaches off first.

Nor shall I endanger the lives of American servicemen to bring aid into countries across the world.

The less of them there are to feed, the less likely they will starve.

 

[Larkinn]

Countries should favor their own.

Free Trade DOES favor their own. Allowing other citizens to own US land DOES favor the US.

I do not understand what you are saying. The Quasiwar and Babary Pirates War were deemed profitable to our interest, otherwise we wouldn't have involved ourselves in those undeclared wars.

And the Iraq war? Thats been terribly profitable, eh?

I know who my father is. We are in DEBT, lots of it. I cut leaches off first.

Congratulations.

Burma makes 2.7 billion off of the natural gas reserves it sells to the Chinese. If their regime fell, they would be much more amenable to selling those reserves with the Americans.

Thats worth a bit of food. Your short-sighted views help neither them, nor us.

Nor shall I endanger the lives of American servicemen to bring aid into countries across the world.

Massive instability in volatile areas of the world DOES endanger American servicemen.

The less of them there are to feed, the less likely they will starve.

Wonderful philosophy.

 

[Gungnir]

And the Iraq war? Thats been terribly profitable, eh?

That is how it was sold. We were told the end result of not doing so would result in statesponsored terror and a nuclear state dictating oil prices to us.

 

[cbi0090]

Well, I read very recently that it appears the U.N. agrees with me over governments that are obviously committing crimes against humanity, like Burma, etc. Of course, China and Russia will do what they can to stop it but it apparently will now be internationally illegal for a government to commit or allow crimes against there own countrymen and women.

 

[eots]

"Today, America would be outraged if U.N. troops entered Los Angeles to restore order [referring to the 1991 LA Riot]. Tomorrow they will be grateful! This is especially true if they were told that there were an outside threat from beyond [i.e., an "extraterrestrial" invasion], whether real or promulgated [emphasis mine], that threatened our very existence. It is then that all peoples of the world will plead to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this scenario, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well-being granted to them by the World Government."

Dr. Henry Kissinger, Bilderberger Conference, Evians, France, 1991

Quotes from Illuminists

 

[Charles_Main]

Actual by a strict interpetation of the constitution. Our membership in the UN is not even legal, as we are to Avoid entangling alliances over seas.

 

[matty]

Ok. But, since we're on the subject, I will post this for fun, not sure if there's any truth in it yet...

UN Accomplishment...

United Nations Accomplishments & Achievements

Here's another:

UN Involved in massive child kidnapping ring...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/01/03/wsudan03.xml