Someone please explain the logic of what God is doing because I don't get it

[JoeB131]

You’ve never been polite. You’re always grumbling.

I’m not a Christian.

I put all the Abrahamic Religions in the same category of stupid.

 

[Mindful]

You’ve never been polite. You’re always grumbling.

I’m not a Christian.

I put all the Abrahamic Religions in the same category of stupid.

Want me to care about that?

 

[Gracie]

God created the universe, put human beings on Earth, and then each of us lives a short life mostly consisting of struggling to survive and suffering, then we die.

Some of us go to heaven, some of us go to hell, based on criteria no one can agree on.

Some say we go to heaven if we believe Jesus is our Savior.

But what happens to all the unlucky people who never heard of Jesus because they were born before he was born or live in countries where Christianity isn't widespread?

Some people believe we go to heaven if we have faith and avoid sin. But everyone sins, every day. If you die with one mortal sin on your soul, nothing else matters, you go to hell.

The question I have is why did God set up the whole crazy system to begin with?

Why put us on Earth, to suffer and die? Why not put us in heaven right off the bat?

What good is it to send people to hell?

I'm seriously questioning the logic of believing in a God who is all knowing and all loving and yet sends people to hell for sins God knew before they were born they would commit.

I'm not saying I'm ready to throw Christianity out the window.

The alternative doesn't appear good either.

People who don't believe in God and don't fear going to hell have committed most of the world's nastiest deeds. So faith has a purpose.

And I do believe in God because I can't figure out how a universe can exist without something causing it to exist.

But I'm telling you I need someone to explain how God's plan includes all the horrible things that happen every day.

I feel your pain. But it all depends on WHICH God you believe in or have faith in. MINE does not send innocent people to a supposed hell. They are just absent from Him if truly evil and know right from wrong but choose wrong. The rest of us will toil on earth, learn from that toiling, and then be rewarded by being IN his presence."On Earth as it is in heaven". Remember that phrase.

 

[Meriweather]

I know some of you Christians try to claim that he just made his daughter join a religious order (which didn't exist for women in that time period).

Then they don't understand the story any better than you.

 

[Meriweather]

But it all depends on WHICH God

One God; many perspectives, plenty of which are wrong; all of which are incomplete.

 

[Indeependent]

How patronising of you.

Actually, I'm being much too polite.

If you told me that your invisible friend commanded you to be a jackass and engage in anti-social behavior, I would look at you funny.

That you call your invisible friend "God" doesn't make it any better.

Cool...What's the entire story about?
Answer now, not in an hour.
I bet you don't know.

Dude, I don't live on here.

Short version. Jephthah was the son of a whore who was asked to lead Israels armies against the Ammonites. He promised God he would sacrifice the first thing he saw when he got home if God gave him victory. he won, killed thousands of Ammonites (who probably weren't bothering anyone at that point) and when he got home, the first living thing he ran into was his daughter. Because he had made a promise to God, he sacrificed her as a burnt offering.

It's kind of fucked up.

He doesn't. He claimed Catholic school and Church skipped over this story. I told him it had not--I had heard the story both in religion class and in Church. I explained what it was about, and he would have nothing to do with it, just as he has nothing to do with anything that shines a good light on either God or religion.

My Catholic school never told the story. In fact, the ONLY story from Judges we got to hear was Samson, and we heard the Disney Version, not the actual text of the bible where Samson shows the values of Osama bin Laden.

There's really no way you can paint the story of Jephthah in a way that makes him or God look good. I know some of you Christians try to claim that he just made his daughter join a religious order (which didn't exist for women in that time period). But nope. He slaughtered and burned her. it's right in the bible.

WoW! You really are a narrow minded jackass who can't see context...

Short version. Jephthah was the son of a whore who was asked to lead Israels armies against the Ammonites. He promised God he would sacrifice the first thing he saw when he got home if God gave him victory. he won, killed thousands of Ammonites (who probably weren't bothering anyone at that point) and when he got home, the first living thing he ran into was his daughter. Because he had made a promise to God, he sacrificed her as a burnt offering.

Jephthah is not the most sophisticated guy who receives a promise from God that he will win a war that is impossible to win.
The promise is kept.

Jeff Bezos promises to give JoeB $50,000,000.00 and actually gives JoeB $50,000,000.00.

Jephthah blurts out that he will offer a sacrifice to God consisting of the first thing he sees when he gets home.

JoeB is so excited he tells Jeff Bezos that he is so thankful that when he (JoeB) gets home, he will give Jeff Bezos the first thing he sees he gets home.

Jephthah gets home and sees his daughter.

JoeB gets home, opens his door and sees the empty bottle of scotch inside the door that he hasn't yet thrown out.

Jephthah does not offer his daughter as a sacrifice because the penalty for doing so is death if seen by 2 witnesses and we all know that the victor of war is escorted home.

JoeB has to tell Jeff Bezos that he is sending him an empty bottle that used to have scotch in it.
Jeff Bezos wants his money back but the money no longer belongs to Jeff Bezos.

Jephthah got his military victory and looks like a fool.
Jess Bezos spends the rest of his life talking about this Bozo JoeB.

Now you see how emotional people such as yourselves are always shooting off your mouths and saying stupid things without thinking.

 

[Indeependent]

You’ve never been polite. You’re always grumbling.

I’m not a Christian.

I put all the Abrahamic Religions in the same category of stupid.

99% of those here put you in the category of self-hating racist.

 

[james bond]

The way I look at it is God and Satan are dividing sides. People like to blame God for everything, but forget about Satan because he is very good at hiding.

Okay, a whole lot of problems with this.

The first is that why did God create Satan and allow him to exist to start with?

The second is, looking at the bible, God kills hundreds of thousands or maybe millions of people. Satan only kills 10 people, on a wager with God in the book of Job.

For that matter, in the Book of Job, Satan is allowed to come and go as he pleases in Heaven and is called a "Son of God." When Job asks God why he has inflicted so much misery on him, God replies, "I'm God, you can't question me."

>>The first is that why did God create Satan and allow him to exist to start with? <<

I think you know the answer. God created Lucifer who became his best angel. Even the most inattentive student of the Bible knows this.

God killed all the humans except for one family because of evil. Remember, Lucifer was cast down to Earth and became its evil leader because of Adam's sin. He made the majority of humans so evil that the innocent were in danger. This is happening again as atheism is rising.

>>For that matter, in the Book of Job, Satan is allowed to come and go as he pleases in Heaven and is called a "Son of God." When Job asks God why he has inflicted so much misery on him, God replies, "I'm God, you can't question me."<<

Give me the chapter and verse, please.

 

[Meriweather]

Jephthah does not offer his daughter as a sacrifice because the penalty for doing so is death if seen by 2 witnesses and we all know that the victor of war is escorted home.

It appears that Jephthah did sacrifice his daughter. Needlessly. As any Rabbi or Judge could/should have told him. God made it clear to Abraham that child sacrifice was not wanted. We see that lesson was learned and passed on because when Jacob said he would sacrifice one-tenth of all he had, he certainly did not sacrifice one of his sons (which were certainly part of all he had). Jephthah's first error was offering an unwanted sacrifice.

His second mistake was not talking to a Rabbi or a Judge about the circumstance he had created for himself. The mistake of his peers (other leaders) is that upon learning of Jephthah's vow, they did not go to him. (All too often people think that if a person wants advice from someone higher or more learned than himself, that person has the duty to seek out the more knowledgeable, not expect the expert to come to him.)

The error of those who did know the Law better, like any other person of that day, would not presume to tell the person in command of his mistake. Even when we are in awe or in fear of someone higher up, when we know more, we still have the duty to put that fear or awe behind us and offer the knowledge we have.

I am aware that some believe Jephthah's daughter lived, but in away in isolation. Should that have been the case, the sacrifice was just as brutal. Ask the parents of modern day children who could not bear the isolation imposed on them due to the Covid virus and committed suicide.

When JoeB reads scripture he seems to do so with the motive of proving to others what an awful being God is. He doesn't take into consideration the object of the story, and the original audience, who surely knew Jephthah erred. There was more to learn from the story...first and foremost not to offer any sacrifice that is not pleasing to God.

 

[Indeependent]

Jephthah does not offer his daughter as a sacrifice because the penalty for doing so is death if seen by 2 witnesses and we all know that the victor of war is escorted home.

It appears that Jephthah did sacrifice his daughter. Needlessly. As any Rabbi or Judge could/should have told him. God made it clear to Abraham that child sacrifice was not wanted. We see that lesson was learned and passed on because when Jacob said he would sacrifice one-tenth of all he had, he certainly did not sacrifice one of his sons (which were certainly part of all he had). Jephthah's first error was offering an unwanted sacrifice.

His second mistake was not talking to a Rabbi or a Judge about the circumstance he had created for himself. The mistake of his peers (other leaders) is that upon learning of Jephthah's vow, they did not go to him. (All too often people think that if a person wants advice from someone higher or more learned than himself, that person has the duty to seek out the more knowledgeable, not expect the expert to come to him.)

The error of those who did know the Law better, like any other person of that day, would not presume to tell the person in command of his mistake. Even when we are in awe or in fear of someone higher up, when we know more, we still have the duty to put that fear or awe behind us and offer the knowledge we have.

I am aware that some believe Jephthah's daughter lived, but in away in isolation. Should that have been the case, the sacrifice was just as brutal. Ask the parents of modern day children who could not bear the isolation imposed on them due to the Covid virus and committed suicide.

When JoeB reads scripture he seems to do so with the motive of proving to others what an awful being God is. He doesn't take into consideration the object of the story, and the original audience, who surely knew Jephthah erred. There was more to learn from the story...first and foremost not to offer any sacrifice that is not pleasing to God.

Thanks for the post.
I actually read the verses and it's obvious that neither Jephthah nor his daughter nor her friends knew that it's easy to absolve oneself of an oath.
As you have stated, Jephthah paid the price for not knowing anything and not wanting advice.

 

[BreezeWood]

Thanks for admitting you never read the OT.
If you read the actual chapters, you would see that God only punishes people who destroy society and teach their kids to do the same.

Actually, what I see is a petty diety who slaughters people on a whim.

Such as stoning a man for picking up sticks on the Sabbath.

Or forcing Jephthah to sacrifice his daughter because he made a foolish vow.

Or killing the baby of David and Bathsheba to prove that adultery is wrong.

Or killing 70,000 Israelites because David did a census God told him to do. Or maybe it was Satan. Kind of hard to tell, because the bible gives two different accounts.

Frankly the God of the Old Testament is about one step above a Batman villain.

For a guy with a Cracker Jacks degree in history you sure do reference a lot of stuff incorrectly or out of context.
But...you are a Liberal.

Probably anti Jew too.

The bias was palpable.

JoeB thinks dark skinned people are too weak minded so they need his help; J thinks this makes him non-racist.
He hates religion, especially Judaism because we haven’t murdered as many people as other religions.
JoeB is an idiot.

.

He hates religion, especially Judaism because we haven’t murdered as many people as other religions.

Thanks for admitting you never read these passages yourself.

.
by not reading your book, if you might - what specifically makes your religion different than the simple spoken religion of antiquity, namely the triumph of good vs evil.

is there a difference between who murders and who causes murder.

I believe you mean what is the difference between killing and murdering.
Jews have no inclination to convert anyone so we don't commit murder because you won't give us your tithe.

.

He hates religion, especially Judaism because we haven’t murdered as many people as other religions.

I believe you mean what is the difference between killing and murdering.
Jews have no inclination to convert anyone so we don't commit murder because you won't give us your tithe.

by not reading your book, if you might - what specifically makes your religion different than the simple spoken religion of antiquity, namely the triumph of good vs evil.

.
the question was what would they be converting too ...

- whatever on your murder story, ignoring the state of israel would be beneficial for your lacking no.s in the crime.

Can you elaborate on how stopping 5 invading nations is murder?

.

by not reading your book, if you might - what specifically makes your religion different than the simple spoken religion of antiquity, namely the triumph of good vs evil.

the question was what would they be converting too ...

.
... the question remains unanswered -
.
.

Can you elaborate on how stopping 5 invading nations is murder?

.
not a difficult task, side stepping seems your need for a distraction ... and why address "invasion" when discussing - israel and murder - self defense is another subject.

 

[Indeependent]

Thanks for admitting you never read the OT.
If you read the actual chapters, you would see that God only punishes people who destroy society and teach their kids to do the same.

Actually, what I see is a petty diety who slaughters people on a whim.

Such as stoning a man for picking up sticks on the Sabbath.

Or forcing Jephthah to sacrifice his daughter because he made a foolish vow.

Or killing the baby of David and Bathsheba to prove that adultery is wrong.

Or killing 70,000 Israelites because David did a census God told him to do. Or maybe it was Satan. Kind of hard to tell, because the bible gives two different accounts.

Frankly the God of the Old Testament is about one step above a Batman villain.

For a guy with a Cracker Jacks degree in history you sure do reference a lot of stuff incorrectly or out of context.
But...you are a Liberal.

Probably anti Jew too.

The bias was palpable.

JoeB thinks dark skinned people are too weak minded so they need his help; J thinks this makes him non-racist.
He hates religion, especially Judaism because we haven’t murdered as many people as other religions.
JoeB is an idiot.

.

He hates religion, especially Judaism because we haven’t murdered as many people as other religions.

Thanks for admitting you never read these passages yourself.

.
by not reading your book, if you might - what specifically makes your religion different than the simple spoken religion of antiquity, namely the triumph of good vs evil.

is there a difference between who murders and who causes murder.

I believe you mean what is the difference between killing and murdering.
Jews have no inclination to convert anyone so we don't commit murder because you won't give us your tithe.

.

He hates religion, especially Judaism because we haven’t murdered as many people as other religions.

I believe you mean what is the difference between killing and murdering.
Jews have no inclination to convert anyone so we don't commit murder because you won't give us your tithe.

by not reading your book, if you might - what specifically makes your religion different than the simple spoken religion of antiquity, namely the triumph of good vs evil.

.
the question was what would they be converting too ...

- whatever on your murder story, ignoring the state of israel would be beneficial for your lacking no.s in the crime.

Can you elaborate on how stopping 5 invading nations is murder?

.

by not reading your book, if you might - what specifically makes your religion different than the simple spoken religion of antiquity, namely the triumph of good vs evil.

the question was what would they be converting too ...

.
... the question remains unanswered -
.
.

Can you elaborate on how stopping 5 invading nations is murder?

.
not a difficult task, side stepping seems your need for a distraction ... and why address "invasion" when discussing - israel and murder - self defense is another subject.

what would they be converting to
Are you retarded?
The religion of those that threaten to murder them.

 

[BreezeWood]

Thanks for admitting you never read the OT.
If you read the actual chapters, you would see that God only punishes people who destroy society and teach their kids to do the same.

Actually, what I see is a petty diety who slaughters people on a whim.

Such as stoning a man for picking up sticks on the Sabbath.

Or forcing Jephthah to sacrifice his daughter because he made a foolish vow.

Or killing the baby of David and Bathsheba to prove that adultery is wrong.

Or killing 70,000 Israelites because David did a census God told him to do. Or maybe it was Satan. Kind of hard to tell, because the bible gives two different accounts.

Frankly the God of the Old Testament is about one step above a Batman villain.

For a guy with a Cracker Jacks degree in history you sure do reference a lot of stuff incorrectly or out of context.
But...you are a Liberal.

Probably anti Jew too.

The bias was palpable.

JoeB thinks dark skinned people are too weak minded so they need his help; J thinks this makes him non-racist.
He hates religion, especially Judaism because we haven’t murdered as many people as other religions.
JoeB is an idiot.

.

He hates religion, especially Judaism because we haven’t murdered as many people as other religions.

Thanks for admitting you never read these passages yourself.

.
by not reading your book, if you might - what specifically makes your religion different than the simple spoken religion of antiquity, namely the triumph of good vs evil.

is there a difference between who murders and who causes murder.

I believe you mean what is the difference between killing and murdering.
Jews have no inclination to convert anyone so we don't commit murder because you won't give us your tithe.

.

He hates religion, especially Judaism because we haven’t murdered as many people as other religions.

I believe you mean what is the difference between killing and murdering.
Jews have no inclination to convert anyone so we don't commit murder because you won't give us your tithe.

by not reading your book, if you might - what specifically makes your religion different than the simple spoken religion of antiquity, namely the triumph of good vs evil.

.
the question was what would they be converting too ...

- whatever on your murder story, ignoring the state of israel would be beneficial for your lacking no.s in the crime.

Can you elaborate on how stopping 5 invading nations is murder?

.

by not reading your book, if you might - what specifically makes your religion different than the simple spoken religion of antiquity, namely the triumph of good vs evil.

the question was what would they be converting too ...

.
... the question remains unanswered -
.
.

Can you elaborate on how stopping 5 invading nations is murder?

.
not a difficult task, side stepping seems your need for a distraction ... and why address "invasion" when discussing - israel and murder - self defense is another subject.

what would they be converting to
Are you retarded?
The religion of those that threaten to murder them.

.

what would they be converting to
Are you retarded?
The religion of those that threaten to murder them.

.
no, both are abrahamic, they and their neighbors ... desert religions, you are confused murder and warfare are not the same. when fought honorably.

 

[Indeependent]

Thanks for admitting you never read the OT.
If you read the actual chapters, you would see that God only punishes people who destroy society and teach their kids to do the same.

Actually, what I see is a petty diety who slaughters people on a whim.

Such as stoning a man for picking up sticks on the Sabbath.

Or forcing Jephthah to sacrifice his daughter because he made a foolish vow.

Or killing the baby of David and Bathsheba to prove that adultery is wrong.

Or killing 70,000 Israelites because David did a census God told him to do. Or maybe it was Satan. Kind of hard to tell, because the bible gives two different accounts.

Frankly the God of the Old Testament is about one step above a Batman villain.

For a guy with a Cracker Jacks degree in history you sure do reference a lot of stuff incorrectly or out of context.
But...you are a Liberal.

Probably anti Jew too.

The bias was palpable.

JoeB thinks dark skinned people are too weak minded so they need his help; J thinks this makes him non-racist.
He hates religion, especially Judaism because we haven’t murdered as many people as other religions.
JoeB is an idiot.

.

He hates religion, especially Judaism because we haven’t murdered as many people as other religions.

Thanks for admitting you never read these passages yourself.

.
by not reading your book, if you might - what specifically makes your religion different than the simple spoken religion of antiquity, namely the triumph of good vs evil.

is there a difference between who murders and who causes murder.

I believe you mean what is the difference between killing and murdering.
Jews have no inclination to convert anyone so we don't commit murder because you won't give us your tithe.

.

He hates religion, especially Judaism because we haven’t murdered as many people as other religions.

I believe you mean what is the difference between killing and murdering.
Jews have no inclination to convert anyone so we don't commit murder because you won't give us your tithe.

by not reading your book, if you might - what specifically makes your religion different than the simple spoken religion of antiquity, namely the triumph of good vs evil.

.
the question was what would they be converting too ...

- whatever on your murder story, ignoring the state of israel would be beneficial for your lacking no.s in the crime.

Can you elaborate on how stopping 5 invading nations is murder?

.

by not reading your book, if you might - what specifically makes your religion different than the simple spoken religion of antiquity, namely the triumph of good vs evil.

the question was what would they be converting too ...

.
... the question remains unanswered -
.
.

Can you elaborate on how stopping 5 invading nations is murder?

.
not a difficult task, side stepping seems your need for a distraction ... and why address "invasion" when discussing - israel and murder - self defense is another subject.

what would they be converting to
Are you retarded?
The religion of those that threaten to murder them.

.

what would they be converting to
Are you retarded?
The religion of those that threaten to murder them.

.
no, both are abrahamic, they and their neighbors ... desert religions, you are confused murder and warfare are not the same. when fought honorably.

That's what I said.
A defensive war is killing.
An offensive war for greed and avarice is murdering.

 

[BreezeWood]

He hates religion, especially Judaism because we haven’t murdered as many people as other religions.
JoeB is an idiot.

Jews have no inclination to convert anyone so we don't commit murder because you won't give us your tithe.

by not reading your book, if you might - what specifically makes your religion different than the simple spoken religion of antiquity, namely the triumph of good vs evil.

.
is there an echo chamber - or just the breeze, independant - that travels through one ear and out the other.

 

[BS Filter]

God created the universe, put human beings on Earth, and then each of us lives a short life mostly consisting of struggling to survive and suffering, then we die.

Some of us go to heaven, some of us go to hell, based on criteria no one can agree on.

Some say we go to heaven if we believe Jesus is our Savior.

But what happens to all the unlucky people who never heard of Jesus because they were born before he was born or live in countries where Christianity isn't widespread?

Some people believe we go to heaven if we have faith and avoid sin. But everyone sins, every day. If you die with one mortal sin on your soul, nothing else matters, you go to hell.

The question I have is why did God set up the whole crazy system to begin with?

Why put us on Earth, to suffer and die? Why not put us in heaven right off the bat?

What good is it to send people to hell?

I'm seriously questioning the logic of believing in a God who is all knowing and all loving and yet sends people to hell for sins God knew before they were born they would commit.

I'm not saying I'm ready to throw Christianity out the window.

The alternative doesn't appear good either.

People who don't believe in God and don't fear going to hell have committed most of the world's nastiest deeds. So faith has a purpose.

And I do believe in God because I can't figure out how a universe can exist without something causing it to exist.

But I'm telling you I need someone to explain how God's plan includes all the horrible things that happen every day.

No one knows that answer to that question. If you want to know the answer some day, then believe on Jesus. If God gave you all the answers now you wouldn't have to have faith in Him.

 

[BreezeWood]

The way I look at it is God and Satan are dividing sides. People like to blame God for everything, but forget about Satan because he is very good at hiding.

Okay, a whole lot of problems with this.

The first is that why did God create Satan and allow him to exist to start with?

The second is, looking at the bible, God kills hundreds of thousands or maybe millions of people. Satan only kills 10 people, on a wager with God in the book of Job.

For that matter, in the Book of Job, Satan is allowed to come and go as he pleases in Heaven and is called a "Son of God." When Job asks God why he has inflicted so much misery on him, God replies, "I'm God, you can't question me."

>>The first is that why did God create Satan and allow him to exist to start with? <<

I think you know the answer. God created Lucifer who became his best angel. Even the most inattentive student of the Bible knows this.

God killed all the humans except for one family because of evil. Remember, Lucifer was cast down to Earth and became its evil leader because of Adam's sin. He made the majority of humans so evil that the innocent were in danger. This is happening again as atheism is rising.

>>For that matter, in the Book of Job, Satan is allowed to come and go as he pleases in Heaven and is called a "Son of God." When Job asks God why he has inflicted so much misery on him, God replies, "I'm God, you can't question me."<<

Give me the chapter and verse, please.

.

He (they) made the majority of humans so evil that the innocent were in danger. This is happening again as atheism is rising.

.
that is not true they would have killed satan ... that though already occurred their own triumph over evil - those put to death chose evil and threatened to cause humanities extinction - humanity was given one last chance, the religion of antiquity.

or so they thought at the time - they relented and sent covid to save now flora and fauna from most of humanity again, the "religious" in particular.

 

[JoeB131]

Then they don't understand the story any better than you.

I understand the story just fine.

A savage God demanded a savage sacrifice.

Now, you can speculate that this was an explanation of a time when the Hebrews were trying to whitewash their past (where human sacrifice was probably a lot more common), but Jephy's story was probably so well known, they had to do some extra scrubbing.

But there really isn't a version of this story where Yahweh looks good.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Then they don't understand the story any better than you.

I understand the story just fine.

A savage God demanded a savage sacrifice.

Now, you can speculate that this was an explanation of a time when the Hebrews were trying to whitewash their past (where human sacrifice was probably a lot more common), but Jephy's story was probably so well known, they had to do some extra scrubbing.

But there really isn't a version of this story where Yahweh looks good.

It's just so obviously the immoral musings of a terrified, superstitious, iron age person. And when Meriweather says you "don't understand", he is now having fun playing with his own, self-appointed, authoritative divinity. As if he spoke with God and got the "real skinny". So he and the iron age author of this myth have quite a bit in common.

 

[Indeependent]

He hates religion, especially Judaism because we haven’t murdered as many people as other religions.
JoeB is an idiot.

Jews have no inclination to convert anyone so we don't commit murder because you won't give us your tithe.

by not reading your book, if you might - what specifically makes your religion different than the simple spoken religion of antiquity, namely the triumph of good vs evil.

.
is there an echo chamber - or just the breeze, independant - that travels through one ear and out the other.

You are not making yourself clear.
If you want to say Israelis are murderers, say it.
Then Link to some sources to back it up.