Sold on Obama

[geauxtohell]

You guys can keep living in a dream world. Where Obama is just going to walk in for a second term. However facts are facts. This time around is going to be harder for him to win than last time. It is undeniable. People know who he is now. He can not pretend to be some honest, fair, Pragmatic, Moderate, Because he has shown us all that he is not.

Actually, whether this will be an easy or difficult election cycle is largely dependent on what the GOP does and who they field.

So far, it's been a total disaster. People will certainly vote for Obama again unless the right gives them a good reason not too. You guys are going to have to do much better than the usual suspects and you need to divorce yourself from the whacked out fringe (i.e. the birthers) which really turn off the moderates.

 

[GoneBezerk]

Iraq was winding down after the insurgency was defeated while Bush was in office. This was AFTER Obama and Reid predicted we lost in Iraq, but today idiots like you and Obama claim Iraq was Obama's victory.

So far in Afghanistan Obama and his people only pissed off the 4-star in charge there and his staff, thus the Rolling Stone article which caused the 4-star to get fired.

Petreaus was brought in to clean up the mess there, but now is headed to the CIA to keep him from retiring and running for the Republicans. It remains to be seen if Afghanistan can be won by "Obama." Our best ally (England) doesn't like Obama and is pulling their forces out of the Middle East because of cooling relations in addition to budget problems.

We shall see if your god can pull Afghanistan out of his butt like the miracle of UBL falling in his lap thanks to the CIA and military doing work well back into Bush's term. So far Obama's people have fumbled the football in regards to UBL by covering up the pictures, releasing intel too soon that the CIA could've used if kept secret, etc.....but you're too dumb to know these things.

Well, Bush already had us drawing down in Iraq and we haven't left under Obama.

So what? You seem to be confused. I don't care who get's credit for originating the event, I just want to see us out. Contrasted with McCain's "We'll be there 100 years if necessary" it was an obvious choice.

The popular election of Obama was a message to the corrupt governments that we propped up that American military adventurism was over and they needed to get their house in order.

Of course, I wouldn't have voted for McCain or Clinton based on their involvement in getting us into Iraq to begin with.

We also never left Afghanistan under Bush, so you don't pay attention to details.

I never said we did. Check your own attention to detail.

Next, you'll claim Obama gets credit for the intel gathered under Bush that found the trail to UBL.

He's the CINC. He get's credit for everything that happens or fails to happen under his watch. That's how it works. Obama was at the helm when we took out OBL. He greenlighted a dangerous operation and didn't tip off the Pakis. He did everything 100% right in regards to getting Bin Laden.

So again, Iraq is no longer a ******* mess, we have told Afghanistan we are leaving, and OBL is rotting at the bottom of the ocean.

That's exactly what I voted for. He'd have to sufficiently screw up to lose my vote at this point.

What's more funny is you guys, after 8 years of Presidential incompetence under Bush, acting like we have no basis for our vote.

 

[geauxtohell]

Iraq was winding down after the insurgency was defeated while Bush was in office. This was AFTER Obama and Reid predicted we lost in Iraq, but today idiots like you and Obama claim Iraq was Obama's victory.

He's seen us out of the matter. I don't care who get's credit for the matter (again for you), I just care that he's committed the policy decisions to ensure it's happened.

If you want to whine about how Bush should get credit for cleaning up his own ******* mess, go for it. No one gives a **** about that. The end result is all that matters. We have a small window of opportunity before Iraq turns septic again, Obama has taken advantage of that.

So far in Afghanistan Obama and his people only pissed off the 4-star in charge there and his staff, thus the Rolling Stone article which caused the 4-star to get fired.

You seem to be mistaken: Generals work for the President. Not the other way around. McChrystal was poorly served by his staff. However, he fucked up and let the perception of a rift between him and the civilian command of the military exist. That is unacceptable and goes far beyond any single conflict. I suspect McChrystal knew his goose was cooked the second the article came out. For similar, but more egregious reasons, Truman fired McArthur. Truman was right. McArthur was wrong. It was an unpopular move on Truman's part, but necessary. General officers can never be allowed to be openly contemptuous of the civilian leadership of the military. It's a mortal sin. On that note, things seem to have vastly improved under Petreaus. So maybe it was a good thing McChrystal left.

Petreaus was brought in to clean up the mess there, but now is headed to the CIA to keep him from retiring and running for the Republicans.

LMAO. As if Petreaus, a Rhodes Scholar, isn't smart enough to have a say in his own career. Frankly, I thought Petreaus had earned the Chairman's job. This is an interesting move. It is also not a move Petreaus is obligated to take.

It remains to be seen if Afghanistan can be won by "Obama." Our best ally (England) doesn't like Obama and is pulling their forces out of the Middle East because of cooling relations in addition to budget problems.

Wars like Afghanistan aren't "won". You just stabilize the situation enough to allow yourself room to get the hell out. That is what is going on in Afghanistan. The larger economic barriers to stability will still be there and the country will be unstable for the remainder of my life I suspect.

We shall see if your god

Ironic that you like to insult liberal's intelligence while resorting to dopey Beckish insults.

can pull Afghanistan out of his butt like the miracle of UBL falling in his lap thanks to the CIA and military doing work well back into Bush's term. So far Obama's people have fumbled the football in regards to UBL by covering up the pictures, releasing intel too soon that the CIA could've used if kept secret, etc.....but you're too dumb to know these things.

LMAO. Keep telling yourself that. OBL was a big chalk mark in the "W" section in the war on Terror. For whatever excuses you are going to make for the man, that was a mark that Bush was unable to make. It probably didn't help that he diverted intelligence assets into Iraq. As it turns out, OBL wasn't exactly doing a bang up job of hiding.

 

[GoneBezerk]

GTH - You are just clueless in regards to the military and foreign policy. It took years and information from GITMO to track down UBL in Pakistan. GITMO....the place Obama said he would shut down.

So if GITMO was shut down the day Obama took office, maybe he would've srewed himself out of his flag waving moment with UBL.

Iraq....was won by Bush, not Obama. I have friends still over there, you should tell Obama he forgot to call them home. Maybe he lost that line along with the "Iraq is lost" and "GITMO will be closed" lines.

Afghanistan was handed over to NATO, you know what you libs said we should always do....coalition war fighting. Bush did what you wanted in Afghanistan, it's just that our allies can't do anything without us holding their hand (see Libya).

So you are going to vote for Obama because he got us out of Iraq (which he didn't), he got UBL (despite fighting the intel as a Senator) and he is focused on Afghanistan (we never left under Bush). I'd say that is a mediocre foundation to support Obama given the economy, taxes, our debt, our dollar, etc.

Again, you liberals show how stupid you are....

 

[Sallow]

Of Course not everyone who voted for Obama is going to vote for A republican this time. However there will be many Independents, Who voted for Obama, who will not vote for him again. They will either stay home, or Vote Republican. He has also ticked off some on his left. His base, which are not going to run out and vote Republican, but they might be upset enough to not vote at all.

You guys can keep living in a dream world. Where Obama is just going to walk in for a second term. However facts are facts. This time around is going to be harder for him to win than last time. It is undeniable. People know who he is now. He can not pretend to be some honest, fair, Pragmatic, Moderate, Because he has shown us all that he is not.

That's ridiculous. President Obama is moderate, pragmatic, relatively fair and honest. That's the problem with the conservatives, they've moved so far to the right..they are now radical. And they think that's the norm. They make arguments about well settled issues as if they were current..like civil rights and abortion. Starting 2 full blown wars is perhaps the most radical event in US history..with the exceptions of course of the Revolution and the Civil war. And still, that gets glossed over as some sort of normal response to an event that was terrible, but in no way justified what happened. And that's just the worst in the series of what would have been considered some very radical policy changes.

The mid-terms were an anomaly..but not hard to understand. We elected our first black president, the economy was in shambles, a far reaching health care reform bill was passed, and there were reforms underway for Medicare. The republicans nationalized each and every local election to make it seem that Democrats had put up "death panels" and were cutting 500 billion from Medicare to get rid of the elderly. It worked. But no one should be proud of that.

 

[Sallow]

GTH - You are just clueless in regards to the military and foreign policy. It took years and information from GITMO to track down UBL in Pakistan. GITMO....the place Obama said he would shut down.

So if GITMO was shut down the day Obama took office, maybe he would've srewed himself out of his flag waving moment with UBL.

Iraq....was won by Bush, not Obama. I have friends still over there, you should tell Obama he forgot to call them home. Maybe he lost that line along with the "Iraq is lost" and "GITMO will be closed" lines.

Afghanistan was handed over to NATO, you know what you libs said we should always do....coalition war fighting. Bush did what you wanted in Afghanistan, it's just that our allies can't do anything without us holding their hand (see Libya).

So you are going to vote for Obama because he got us out of Iraq (which he didn't), he got UBL (despite fighting the intel as a Senator) and he is focused on Afghanistan (we never left under Bush). I'd say that is a mediocre foundation to support Obama given the economy, taxes, our debt, our dollar, etc.

Again, you liberals show how stupid you are....

Almost total nonsense.

But I take heart in this..because people in general are believing it less and less.

 

[Avorysuds]

Of Course not everyone who voted for Obama is going to vote for A republican this time. However there will be many Independents, Who voted for Obama, who will not vote for him again. They will either stay home, or Vote Republican. He has also ticked off some on his left. His base, which are not going to run out and vote Republican, but they might be upset enough to not vote at all.

You guys can keep living in a dream world. Where Obama is just going to walk in for a second term. However facts are facts. This time around is going to be harder for him to win than last time. It is undeniable. People know who he is now. He can not pretend to be some honest, fair, Pragmatic, Moderate, Because he has shown us all that he is not.

That's ridiculous. President Obama is moderate, pragmatic, relatively fair and honest. That's the problem with the conservatives, they've moved so far to the right..they are now radical. And they think that's the norm. They make arguments about well settled issues as if they were current..like civil rights and abortion. Starting 2 full blown wars is perhaps the most radical event in US history..with the exceptions of course of the Revolution and the Civil war. And still, that gets glossed over as some sort of normal response to an event that was terrible, but in no way justified what happened. And that's just the worst in the series of what would have been considered some very radical policy changes.

The mid-terms were an anomaly..but not hard to understand. We elected our first black president, the economy was in shambles, a far reaching health care reform bill was passed, and there were reforms underway for Medicare. The republicans nationalized each and every local election to make it seem that Democrats had put up "death panels" and were cutting 500 billion from Medicare to get rid of the elderly. It worked. But no one should be proud of that.

Wtf makes Obama a moderate? I honestly didn't even bother reading the rest because it was only that far into your post that I was like, LOLZ!

 

[geauxtohell]

GTH - You are just clueless in regards to the military and foreign policy.

Look, fuckstick, I was in Afghanistan for a year. What about you? I'll put my collective knowledge of what the ground realities in Afghanistan are up against anyone.

You haven't demonstrated that you have any special dispensation or understanding of "military and foreign policy". You are just spouting off the same, lame talking points. Put down the Jonah Goldberg hackery and read some real sources (Lester Grau, Soldiers of God, Steve Coll, etc. on Afghanistan) and get back to me.

As it stands, I am from Missouri. You are going to have to do better than stomping your damn feet and insisting I don't know what the **** is really going on. I am relatively nonplussed by such stupidity.

It took years and information from GITMO to track down UBL in Pakistan. GITMO....the place Obama said he would shut down.

So if GITMO was shut down the day Obama took office, maybe he would've srewed himself out of his flag waving moment with UBL.

Iraq....was won by Bush, not Obama.

Iraq wasn't "won" by anyone. We only succeeded in setting up a moderately repressive regime that has opened up a niche for radical Islam to operate out of and greatly strengthened Iran's position in the region.

We didn't win. We just stopped the bleeding enough to make a clean get away.

I have friends still over there, you should tell Obama he forgot to call them home. Maybe he lost that line along with the "Iraq is lost" and "GITMO will be closed" lines.

Either way, there are substantially less soldiers there now and the mission has changed. No one has suggested we withdrawal overnight or completely, most of us just wanted to come to a point were Americans were dying everyday as Iraqis tried to figure out how they were going to divide the oil money.

Since GWB had the biggest American Embassy in the history of American Embassies built over there, we are always going to have soldiers in there now.

Afghanistan was handed over to NATO, you know what you libs said we should always do....coalition war fighting. Bush did what you wanted in Afghanistan, it's just that our allies can't do anything without us holding their hand (see Libya).

No. If Bush had done what "we wanted" in Afghanistan, we wouldn't have fucked around for 6 years in the "Graveyard of Superpowers" while he diverted the military into Iraq.

So you are going to vote for Obama because he got us out of Iraq (which he didn't), he got UBL (despite fighting the intel as a Senator) and he is focused on Afghanistan (we never left under Bush). I'd say that is a mediocre foundation to support Obama given the economy, taxes, our debt, our dollar, etc.

Again, you liberals show how stupid you are....

You telling me how intelligent you are smacks of the pimply faced dork in the locker room bragging about how many sluts he's bagged.

 

[GoneBezerk]

Ok nutjob....err da big bad woof.

GTH - You are just clueless in regards to the military and foreign policy. It took years and information from GITMO to track down UBL in Pakistan. GITMO....the place Obama said he would shut down.

So if GITMO was shut down the day Obama took office, maybe he would've srewed himself out of his flag waving moment with UBL.

Iraq....was won by Bush, not Obama. I have friends still over there, you should tell Obama he forgot to call them home. Maybe he lost that line along with the "Iraq is lost" and "GITMO will be closed" lines.

Afghanistan was handed over to NATO, you know what you libs said we should always do....coalition war fighting. Bush did what you wanted in Afghanistan, it's just that our allies can't do anything without us holding their hand (see Libya).

So you are going to vote for Obama because he got us out of Iraq (which he didn't), he got UBL (despite fighting the intel as a Senator) and he is focused on Afghanistan (we never left under Bush). I'd say that is a mediocre foundation to support Obama given the economy, taxes, our debt, our dollar, etc.

Again, you liberals show how stupid you are....

Almost total nonsense.

But I take heart in this..because people in general are believing it less and less.

 

[Sallow]

Of Course not everyone who voted for Obama is going to vote for A republican this time. However there will be many Independents, Who voted for Obama, who will not vote for him again. They will either stay home, or Vote Republican. He has also ticked off some on his left. His base, which are not going to run out and vote Republican, but they might be upset enough to not vote at all.

You guys can keep living in a dream world. Where Obama is just going to walk in for a second term. However facts are facts. This time around is going to be harder for him to win than last time. It is undeniable. People know who he is now. He can not pretend to be some honest, fair, Pragmatic, Moderate, Because he has shown us all that he is not.

That's ridiculous. President Obama is moderate, pragmatic, relatively fair and honest. That's the problem with the conservatives, they've moved so far to the right..they are now radical. And they think that's the norm. They make arguments about well settled issues as if they were current..like civil rights and abortion. Starting 2 full blown wars is perhaps the most radical event in US history..with the exceptions of course of the Revolution and the Civil war. And still, that gets glossed over as some sort of normal response to an event that was terrible, but in no way justified what happened. And that's just the worst in the series of what would have been considered some very radical policy changes.

The mid-terms were an anomaly..but not hard to understand. We elected our first black president, the economy was in shambles, a far reaching health care reform bill was passed, and there were reforms underway for Medicare. The republicans nationalized each and every local election to make it seem that Democrats had put up "death panels" and were cutting 500 billion from Medicare to get rid of the elderly. It worked. But no one should be proud of that.

Wtf makes Obama a moderate? I honestly didn't even bother reading the rest because it was only that far into your post that I was like, LOLZ!

First off..his executive orders have been few and far between. Secondly..every one of his major initiatives has included a great deal of Republican input and ideas even though they disown it as soon as it hits the congress.

Basically all that bullshit about marxism is just that.

Bullshit.

Time and time again..you guys prove you cannot rationally argue anything without resorting to hyperbole, insults and lies.

Whether that's here..or in the halls of congress.

 

[Avorysuds]

NM, don't answer that swallow, you're a fanboi I forgot haha.

 

[Sallow]

Ok nutjob....err da big bad woof.

GTH - You are just clueless in regards to the military and foreign policy. It took years and information from GITMO to track down UBL in Pakistan. GITMO....the place Obama said he would shut down.

So if GITMO was shut down the day Obama took office, maybe he would've srewed himself out of his flag waving moment with UBL.

Iraq....was won by Bush, not Obama. I have friends still over there, you should tell Obama he forgot to call them home. Maybe he lost that line along with the "Iraq is lost" and "GITMO will be closed" lines.

Afghanistan was handed over to NATO, you know what you libs said we should always do....coalition war fighting. Bush did what you wanted in Afghanistan, it's just that our allies can't do anything without us holding their hand (see Libya).

So you are going to vote for Obama because he got us out of Iraq (which he didn't), he got UBL (despite fighting the intel as a Senator) and he is focused on Afghanistan (we never left under Bush). I'd say that is a mediocre foundation to support Obama given the economy, taxes, our debt, our dollar, etc.

Again, you liberals show how stupid you are....

Almost total nonsense.

But I take heart in this..because people in general are believing it less and less.

^^^ Case in point.

 

[Avorysuds]

That's ridiculous. President Obama is moderate, pragmatic, relatively fair and honest. That's the problem with the conservatives, they've moved so far to the right..they are now radical. And they think that's the norm. They make arguments about well settled issues as if they were current..like civil rights and abortion. Starting 2 full blown wars is perhaps the most radical event in US history..with the exceptions of course of the Revolution and the Civil war. And still, that gets glossed over as some sort of normal response to an event that was terrible, but in no way justified what happened. And that's just the worst in the series of what would have been considered some very radical policy changes.

The mid-terms were an anomaly..but not hard to understand. We elected our first black president, the economy was in shambles, a far reaching health care reform bill was passed, and there were reforms underway for Medicare. The republicans nationalized each and every local election to make it seem that Democrats had put up "death panels" and were cutting 500 billion from Medicare to get rid of the elderly. It worked. But no one should be proud of that.

Wtf makes Obama a moderate? I honestly didn't even bother reading the rest because it was only that far into your post that I was like, LOLZ!

First off..his executive orders have been few and far between. Secondly..every one of his major initiatives has included a great deal of Republican input and ideas even though they disown it as soon as it hits the congress.

Basically all that bullshit about marxism is just that.

Bullshit.

Time and time again..you guys prove you cannot rationally argue anything without resorting to hyperbole, insults and lies.

Whether that's here..or in the halls of congress.

And there is is lol, 100% fanboi.

 

[Sallow]

NM, don't answer that swallow, you're a fanboi I forgot haha.

^^^ Case number 2 in point.

You guys are to easy.

 

[GoneBezerk]

Wow....a whole year taking pictures for the Rolling Stone???

I know more about what is going on in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc than you will ever know...that's all you need to know.

Bush handed Afghanistan over to NATO like you liberals wanted, now shut the **** up.

Iraq is one of the most stable countries in the middle east today, thanks to removing Saddam. Imagine the mess if Saddam was still around today with the problems in Syria, Egypt, Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Libya, etc.....but dumbasses like you think the world would be better with Saddam.

Iraq in the end will be a strategic victory for Bush and the USA, not Obama.

GTH - You are just clueless in regards to the military and foreign policy.

Look, fuckstick, I was in Afghanistan for a year. What about you? I'll put my collective knowledge of what the ground realities in Afghanistan are up against anyone.

You haven't demonstrated that you have any special dispensation or understanding of "military and foreign policy". You are just spouting off the same, lame talking points. Put down the Jonah Goldberg hackery and read some real sources (Lester Grau, Soldiers of God, Steve Coll, etc. on Afghanistan) and get back to me.

As it stands, I am from Missouri. You are going to have to do better than stomping your damn feet and insisting I don't know what the **** is really going on. I am relatively nonplussed by such stupidity.

It took years and information from GITMO to track down UBL in Pakistan. GITMO....the place Obama said he would shut down.

So if GITMO was shut down the day Obama took office, maybe he would've srewed himself out of his flag waving moment with UBL.

Iraq....was won by Bush, not Obama.

Iraq wasn't "won" by anyone. We only succeeded in setting up a moderately repressive regime that has opened up a niche for radical Islam to operate out of and greatly strengthened Iran's position in the region.

We didn't win. We just stopped the bleeding enough to make a clean get away.



Either way, there are substantially less soldiers there now and the mission has changed. No one has suggested we withdrawal overnight or completely, most of us just wanted to come to a point were Americans were dying everyday as Iraqis tried to figure out how they were going to divide the oil money.

Since GWB had the biggest American Embassy in the history of American Embassies built over there, we are always going to have soldiers in there now.

Afghanistan was handed over to NATO, you know what you libs said we should always do....coalition war fighting. Bush did what you wanted in Afghanistan, it's just that our allies can't do anything without us holding their hand (see Libya).

No. If Bush had done what "we wanted" in Afghanistan, we wouldn't have fucked around for 6 years in the "Graveyard of Superpowers" while he diverted the military into Iraq.

So you are going to vote for Obama because he got us out of Iraq (which he didn't), he got UBL (despite fighting the intel as a Senator) and he is focused on Afghanistan (we never left under Bush). I'd say that is a mediocre foundation to support Obama given the economy, taxes, our debt, our dollar, etc.

Again, you liberals show how stupid you are....

You telling me how intelligent you are smacks of the pimply faced dork in the locker room bragging about how many sluts he's bagged.

 

[Sallow]

Wtf makes Obama a moderate? I honestly didn't even bother reading the rest because it was only that far into your post that I was like, LOLZ!

First off..his executive orders have been few and far between. Secondly..every one of his major initiatives has included a great deal of Republican input and ideas even though they disown it as soon as it hits the congress.

Basically all that bullshit about marxism is just that.

Bullshit.

Time and time again..you guys prove you cannot rationally argue anything without resorting to hyperbole, insults and lies.

Whether that's here..or in the halls of congress.

And there is is lol, 100% fanboi.

Is is?



There's your lol for ya.

 

[Sallow]

Wow....a whole year taking pictures for the Rolling Stone???

I know more about what is going on in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc than you will ever know...that's all you need to know.

Bush handed Afghanistan over to NATO like you liberals wanted, now shut the **** up.

Iraq is one of the most stable countries in the middle east today, thanks to removing Saddam. Imagine the mess if Saddam was still around today with the problems in Syria, Egypt, Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Libya, etc.....but dumbasses like you think the world would be better with Saddam.

Iraq in the end will be a strategic victory for Bush and the USA, not Obama.

The exact way to prove you "know" anything is with a statement of facts.

Telling people "you know everything" and to "shut the **** up" may work in high school with people smaller then yourself...but in the real world..wolves do prowl.

 

[geauxtohell]

Wow....a whole year taking pictures for the Rolling Stone???

No. Infantry Officer. For half of my yearlong tour, I was the Scout/Sniper Platoon Leader. For the second half, I was the battalion staff officer in charge of Civil Military Operations.

So where have you been and what have you done?

I know more about what is going on in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc than you will ever know...that's all you need to know.

Oh, let me guess: CIA? Delta Force? SEALs? Special Forces?

Lay your cards on the table. I think you are full of shit.

Bush handed Afghanistan over to NATO like you liberals wanted, now shut the **** up.

How about "no". Humerous that you would think I take orders from you, though.

Iraq is one of the most stable countries in the middle east today, thanks to removing Saddam. Imagine the mess if Saddam was still around today with the problems in Syria, Egypt, Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Libya, etc.....but dumbasses like you think the world would be better with Saddam.

I think we'd be in a better position in regards to Islamic Terrorism.

Iraq in the end will be a strategic victory for Bush and the USA, not Obama.

Doubtful.

 

[geauxtohell]

The exact way to prove you "know" anything is with a statement of facts.

Telling people "you know everything" and to "shut the **** up" may work in high school with people smaller then yourself...but in the real world..wolves do prowl.

He could tell you what he does, but then he'd have to kill you.

In the World of Warcraft.

 

[Sallow]

The exact way to prove you "know" anything is with a statement of facts.

Telling people "you know everything" and to "shut the **** up" may work in high school with people smaller then yourself...but in the real world..wolves do prowl.

He could tell you what he does, but then he'd have to kill you.

In the World of Warcraft.

Naw..probably got him beat there as well.