Solar, Rent or Buy

[HappyJoy]

Not a political thread.

So, this is the year I'm thinking about going solar. Ha anyone else done this? My first thought is to buy, keep any tax write offs for myself and not have a 20 year lease. If the warranty is decent should be OK and if I sell my house I should get back at least a portion of my investment back. My two big concerns are first shelling out a lot of money up front and secondly, what about new technology to come along 5 or 10 years later? I want to do my part but I also don't want to replace the panels every half decade.

Renting is well...renting and while my utilities will go down, I'm paying interest and making somebody else money, I'm looking to reduce my monthly bills, not diversify them.

So, has anyone taken the plunge and if so, where did you end up? Financially was it worth it? How much did you knock off your electric bill?

 

[Wyatt earp]

I am Starting out small at first, to see what I am getting into and if it is worth it.

I bought a small cheap solar panel kit last October from harbor freight and use it to power my low voltage led lights in my shed and some outdoor lighting.

It has been working out ok.

 

[HappyJoy]

I am Starting out small at first, to see what I am getting into and if it is worth it.

I bought a small cheap solar panel kit last October from harbor freight and use it to power my low voltage led lights in my shed and some outdoor lighting.

It has been working out ok.

My goal eventually is to have a zero carbon footprint, I bought my house in 2013 and well...have gotten nowhere yet except for replacing some weather stripping. My A/C not buy choice is next on the list, it's about to go.

I've thought about going solar just for my outdoor lighting but then if I go big and put it on my roof I probably could have skipped the smaller kit. Then again...I haven't done anything so far.

 

[Granny]

I would think it has a lot to do with where you live. It seems solar panels would not work nearly so well in polar regions as they might in warmer, sunnier climates. But it seems like after much ado (and money invested) in solar energy production that these companies keep going belly up. I've used outdoor solar lighting, but I have to trash the stuff after one season because they don't work anymore ... and I've repurchased ... still the same story. So this year, I've opted to fergitaboutit. I would not consider it at all for heating and cooling my home. Same with the heat pump stuff - they're fine in areas that are mostly warm but in colder places not so much - they have a tendency to produce more cool air than heat in winter.

 

[HappyJoy]

I would think it has a lot to do with where you live. It seems solar panels would not work nearly so well in polar regions as they might in warmer, sunnier climates. But it seems like after much ado (and money invested) in solar energy production that these companies keep going belly up. I've used outdoor solar lighting, but I have to trash the stuff after one season because they don't work anymore ... and I've repurchased ... still the same story. So this year, I've opted to fergitaboutit. I would not consider it at all for heating and cooling my home. Same with the heat pump stuff - they're fine in areas that are mostly warm but in colder places not so much - they have a tendency to produce more cool air than heat in winter.

I think many companies are start ups, it's a new industry. However Solar City, appears to be in for the long haul and has backing from Google.

Those solar lights suck, I mean really suck and I would expect they would since they are placed where light is needed at night and not where sunlight hits them during the day and they use low, low voltage lighting. The panel on them is tiny, throw them out, not worth it.

Anyway for me, I'm in a sunny environment.

 

[Billy_Bob]

Consider your location, length of year that has good sun light exposure and angle if incidence. It is very important to understand that PV arrays, unless they track the sun (turn facing) the power output will only be about 40-60% at angle and 80% in direct sunlight. Your going to pay out the nose for the system.

Then you must consider battery storage so that you are not limited to day time power only. Sadly this is going to give you huge carbon foot print..

My home has a hybrid system and it costs me more to maintain it than it would if I paid outright for energy cost. The only up side, I have is power when the systems around me fail.

 

[Wyatt earp]

I am Starting out small at first, to see what I am getting into and if it is worth it.

I bought a small cheap solar panel kit last October from harbor freight and use it to power my low voltage led lights in my shed and some outdoor lighting.

It has been working out ok.

My goal eventually is to have a zero carbon footprint, I bought my house in 2013 and well...have gotten nowhere yet except for replacing some weather stripping. My A/C not buy choice is next on the list, it's about to go.

I've thought about going solar just for my outdoor lighting but then if I go big and put it on my roof I probably could have skipped the smaller kit. Then again...I haven't done anything so far.

If you have the money to burn just do it (not being sarcastic or political) I have seen used solar panels just being given away on craigslist down here so I still don't know if they are worth it in the long run. But it was fun to mess with.

For a water heater I have a tankless european style. It works ok only heats the water on demand.


Are tankless water heaters worth the extra cost?



.
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[Billy_Bob]

Here is an excellent lesson in economics and the failure that is wind and solar..

FAIL: Busted Wind Turbines Give College Whopping Negative 99.14% Return On Investment

To bad the morons are happy using other peoples money and didn't take the hit themselves..

 

[Zander]

When it comes to Solar BUY- DO NOT RENT!!

I bought a 5000 KW system with micro inverters last year. My electric bill went from $400/month to about $40. I live in Southern California

I paid roughly $11,000 for all of the equipment - bought direct from Blue Pacific Solar. After the kit arrived, I installed the mounts on the roof- we have a tile roof so it was a bit trickier than shingles - then I installed the the panels onto the mounts. This is something anyone can do- not difficult at all. I then paid an electrical contractor $2500 to do the connections and the grid tie. My "all-in"cost was about $14,000.00.

I could have saved a little by using Chinese panels, but I went 100% AMERICAN MADE Solar World 250 KW panels with the Enphase microinverters.

I received a federal tax credit of 30% ($4200) and a rebate from the state of California for $1200 - total cost was basically $9,000 after all was said and done.

$9000/360 = 25 months payback = WINNING!!!

If you are not handy or afraid of roofs and hired a solar contractor to handle the entire project "turn-key" it would cost roughly $20K before tax incentives. for a 5000KW system. after 30% federal tax credit the cost comes down to $14,000/ 360 = 38 months = STILL WINNING!!

Hope that helps!

 

[Billy_Bob]

I am Starting out small at first, to see what I am getting into and if it is worth it.

I bought a small cheap solar panel kit last October from harbor freight and use it to power my low voltage led lights in my shed and some outdoor lighting.

It has been working out ok.

My goal eventually is to have a zero carbon footprint, I bought my house in 2013 and well...have gotten nowhere yet except for replacing some weather stripping. My A/C not buy choice is next on the list, it's about to go.

I've thought about going solar just for my outdoor lighting but then if I go big and put it on my roof I probably could have skipped the smaller kit. Then again...I haven't done anything so far.

If you have the money to burn just do it (not being sarcastic or political) I have seen used solar panels just being given away on craigslist down here so I still don't know if they are worth it in the long run. But it was fun to mess with.

For a water heater I have a tankless european style. It works ok only heats the water on demand.


Are tankless water heaters worth the extra cost?



.
.

My hybrid system uses two 50 gal water heaters and 6 1500w dump loads. The two tanks are placed in line before my water heater and the wind turbines and PV array are wired so that when the batteries are full they warm the water in the tanks. My gas heater uses very little gas to finish heating up the water..

 

[Wyatt earp]

Here is an excellent lesson in economics and the failure that is wind and solar..

FAIL: Busted Wind Turbines Give College Whopping Negative 99.14% Return On Investment

To bad the morons are happy using other peoples money and didn't take the hit themselves..

Jay Leno has a wind turbine on his huge garage....

Just saying.


Jay Leno Builds a Wind Turbine on His Green Garage


.

 

[Manonthestreet]

Just out of curiosity how do you amass a $400 month elec bill

 

[Billy_Bob]

When it comes to Solar BUY- DO NOT RENT!!

I bought a 5000 KW system with micro inverters last year. My electric bill went from $400/month to about $40. I live in Southern California

I paid roughly $11,000 for all of the equipment - bought direct from Blue Pacific Solar. After the kit arrived, I installed the mounts on the roof- we have a tile roof so it was a bit trickier than shingles - then I installed the the panels onto the mounts. This is something anyone can do- not difficult at all. I then paid an electrical contractor $2500 to do the connections and the grid tie. My "all-in"cost was about $14,000.00.

I could have saved a little by using Chinese panels, but I went 100% AMERICAN MADE Solar World 250 KW panels with the Enphase microinverters.

I received a federal tax credit of 30% ($4200) and a rebate from the state of California for $1200 - total cost was basically $9,000 after all was said and done.

$9000/360 = 25 months payback = WINNING!!!

If you are not handy or afraid of roofs and hired a solar contractor to handle the entire project "turn-key" it would cost roughly $20K before tax incentives. for a 5000KW system. after 30% federal tax credit the cost comes down to $14,000/ 360 = 38 months = STILL WINNING!!

Hope that helps!

This has a lot to do with California requiring the power company to take all power you generate at cost and not charge you for line maintenance. This is not typical in most states.

Did your homeowners insurance and fire insurance double or triple? Do they even know? Most fire departments will not put out a home with solar panels on the roof as they risk electrocution if they do during the day. They surround and contain (protect adjacent property). Your property burns to the ground.

Lots of things to consider and costs to weigh... I choose not to place any panel on my home simply due to insurance costs and fire department policies.. Its best to check these things out first before you do anything..

 

[HappyJoy]

When it comes to Solar BUY- DO NOT RENT!!

I bought a 5000 KW system with micro inverters last year. My electric bill went from $400/month to about $40. I live in Southern California

I paid roughly $11,000 for all of the equipment - bought direct from Blue Pacific Solar. After the kit arrived, I installed the mounts on the roof- we have a tile roof so it was a bit trickier than shingles - then I installed the the panels onto the mounts. This is something anyone can do- not difficult at all. I then paid an electrical contractor $2500 to do the connections and the grid tie. My "all-in"cost was about $14,000.00.

I could have saved a little by using Chinese panels, but I went 100% AMERICAN MADE Solar World 250 KW panels with the Enphase microinverters.

I received a federal tax credit of 30% ($4200) and a rebate from the state of California for $1200 - total cost was basically $9,000 after all was said and done.

$9000/360 = 25 months payback = WINNING!!!

If you are not handy or afraid of roofs and hired a solar contractor to handle the entire project "turn-key" it would cost roughly $20K before tax incentives. for a 5000KW system. after 30% federal tax credit the cost comes down to $14,000/ 360 = 38 months = STILL WINNING!!

Hope that helps!

Holy shit that is awesome! I too have a tile roof and while they have their advantage, every time I go up there "SNAP" I step in the wrong place. How many panels did you buy and if you don't mind, what is the approx. sq footage of your house? Mind is realtively small, it's only 1,600 but I also have a pool and that can suck up the energy, especially in the summer.

 

[Billy_Bob]

Here is an excellent lesson in economics and the failure that is wind and solar..

FAIL: Busted Wind Turbines Give College Whopping Negative 99.14% Return On Investment

To bad the morons are happy using other peoples money and didn't take the hit themselves..

Jay Leno has a wind turbine on his huge garage....

Just saying.


Jay Leno Builds a Wind Turbine on His Green Garage


.

Jay is using a high end, balanced turbine. Most of us cant afford that device made by Mercedes Benz. And his maintenance costs are probably pretty high for it. If its not perfectly balanced it would shake the structure apart over time. This is why most turbines are not attached to home roofs, vibration and noise is massive.

 

[Zander]

When it comes to Solar BUY- DO NOT RENT!!

I bought a 5000 KW system with micro inverters last year. My electric bill went from $400/month to about $40. I live in Southern California

I paid roughly $11,000 for all of the equipment - bought direct from Blue Pacific Solar. After the kit arrived, I installed the mounts on the roof- we have a tile roof so it was a bit trickier than shingles - then I installed the the panels onto the mounts. This is something anyone can do- not difficult at all. I then paid an electrical contractor $2500 to do the connections and the grid tie. My "all-in"cost was about $14,000.00.

I could have saved a little by using Chinese panels, but I went 100% AMERICAN MADE Solar World 250 KW panels with the Enphase microinverters.

I received a federal tax credit of 30% ($4200) and a rebate from the state of California for $1200 - total cost was basically $9,000 after all was said and done.

$9000/360 = 25 months payback = WINNING!!!

If you are not handy or afraid of roofs and hired a solar contractor to handle the entire project "turn-key" it would cost roughly $20K before tax incentives. for a 5000KW system. after 30% federal tax credit the cost comes down to $14,000/ 360 = 38 months = STILL WINNING!!

Hope that helps!

This has a lot to do with California requiring the power company to take all power you generate at cost and not charge you for line maintenance. This is not typical in most states.

Did your homeowners insurance and fire insurance double or triple? Do they even know? Most fire departments will not put out a home with solar panels on the roof as they risk electrocution if they do during the day. They surround and contain (protect adjacent property). Your property burns to the ground.

Lots of things to consider and costs to weigh... I choose not to place any panel on my home simply due to insurance costs and fire department policies.. Its best to check these things out first before you do anything..

I don't know where you got that info. But here is what I know.

The power company uses a system called "net metering". I can never sell them more power than I need on a monthly basis. My bill can never go below zero- that is why I only put in a 5000KW system- it covered 85% of my average bill.

I pay a small fee for line maintenance. It's about $4.00 a month.

I did have to pay a small additional fee for my homeowners insurance because they are covered by the policy. It's about $20/year extra.

Firefighters have no problem with solar installations in my city- they know how to deal with it. They simply turn off the power.

I'd estimate that roughly 15% of the single family homes in the area have solar panels installed.

 

[Zander]

When it comes to Solar BUY- DO NOT RENT!!

I bought a 5000 KW system with micro inverters last year. My electric bill went from $400/month to about $40. I live in Southern California

I paid roughly $11,000 for all of the equipment - bought direct from Blue Pacific Solar. After the kit arrived, I installed the mounts on the roof- we have a tile roof so it was a bit trickier than shingles - then I installed the the panels onto the mounts. This is something anyone can do- not difficult at all. I then paid an electrical contractor $2500 to do the connections and the grid tie. My "all-in"cost was about $14,000.00.

I could have saved a little by using Chinese panels, but I went 100% AMERICAN MADE Solar World 250 KW panels with the Enphase microinverters.

I received a federal tax credit of 30% ($4200) and a rebate from the state of California for $1200 - total cost was basically $9,000 after all was said and done.

$9000/360 = 25 months payback = WINNING!!!

If you are not handy or afraid of roofs and hired a solar contractor to handle the entire project "turn-key" it would cost roughly $20K before tax incentives. for a 5000KW system. after 30% federal tax credit the cost comes down to $14,000/ 360 = 38 months = STILL WINNING!!

Hope that helps!

Holy shit that is awesome! I too have a tile roof and while they have their advantage, every time I go up there "SNAP" I step in the wrong place. How many panels did you buy and if you don't mind, what is the approx. sq footage of your house? Mind is realtively small, it's only 1,600 but I also have a pool and that can suck up the energy, especially in the summer.

I have a 3000 sq foot home with a pool. I bought 18 panels with microinverters. . Where do you live? Here is where I bought the panels/kit - Solar Kits; Grid-Tie Energy

You should take your last electrical bill and calculate the average - then buy enough panels to offset 80-85% .

There are numerous calculators here....Calculators - Go Solar California

 

[Zander]

Just out of curiosity how do you amass a $400 month elec bill

I have a 3,000 sq foot house that needs to be air conditioned 6 months of the year, and a heated pool.

 

[Billy_Bob]

When it comes to Solar BUY- DO NOT RENT!!

I bought a 5000 KW system with micro inverters last year. My electric bill went from $400/month to about $40. I live in Southern California

I paid roughly $11,000 for all of the equipment - bought direct from Blue Pacific Solar. After the kit arrived, I installed the mounts on the roof- we have a tile roof so it was a bit trickier than shingles - then I installed the the panels onto the mounts. This is something anyone can do- not difficult at all. I then paid an electrical contractor $2500 to do the connections and the grid tie. My "all-in"cost was about $14,000.00.

I could have saved a little by using Chinese panels, but I went 100% AMERICAN MADE Solar World 250 KW panels with the Enphase microinverters.

I received a federal tax credit of 30% ($4200) and a rebate from the state of California for $1200 - total cost was basically $9,000 after all was said and done.

$9000/360 = 25 months payback = WINNING!!!

If you are not handy or afraid of roofs and hired a solar contractor to handle the entire project "turn-key" it would cost roughly $20K before tax incentives. for a 5000KW system. after 30% federal tax credit the cost comes down to $14,000/ 360 = 38 months = STILL WINNING!!

Hope that helps!

This has a lot to do with California requiring the power company to take all power you generate at cost and not charge you for line maintenance. This is not typical in most states.

Did your homeowners insurance and fire insurance double or triple? Do they even know? Most fire departments will not put out a home with solar panels on the roof as they risk electrocution if they do during the day. They surround and contain (protect adjacent property). Your property burns to the ground.

Lots of things to consider and costs to weigh... I choose not to place any panel on my home simply due to insurance costs and fire department policies.. Its best to check these things out first before you do anything..

I don't know where you got that info. But here is what I know.

The power company uses a system called "net metering". I can never sell them more power than I need on a monthly basis. My bill can never go below zero- that is why I only put in a 5000KW system- it covered 85% of my average bill.

I pay a small fee for line maintenance. It's about $4.00 a month.

I did have to pay a small additional fee for my homeowners insurance because they are covered by the policy. It's about $20/year extra.

Firefighters have no problem with solar installations in my city- they know how to deal with it. They simply turn off the power.

I'd estimate that roughly 15% of the single family homes in the area have solar panels installed.

You got off pretty lucky..

Pacific Corp will only pay pennies on the dollar up here in Wyoming for energy creates and they nuke you with a line maintenance charge 22.00 a month here. It would cost me money on top of my bill to actually grid tie here.

Newer panels have a shunt mechanism triggered by a switch which renders them safe, which is usually put by the power meter. My fire department, being volunteer, are not trained in electrical circuits and safety's. They will not risk staff to do more than pull the transformer switch which provides power to the home. If they perceive a risk of electrocution your home is left to containment.

If my home was not equipped with an array disconnect or they were on my roof, my insurance would have doubled.

I assume that where you live has great deal to do with what they can do and are trained to do. This directly affects how insurance companies rate your homes risk.

Again its best to do homework before spending lots of money.

 

[Manonthestreet]

Just out of curiosity how do you amass a $400 month elec bill

I have a 3,000 sq foot house that needs to be air conditioned 6 months of the year, and a heated pool.

Gotta be those CA elec rates .......boggles my mind what I could do with that much electricity here