Socialized Healthcare. Italy May Not Treat The Elderly--COVID 19.

[Mac-7]

It's called triage. We have the same thing here only they include ability to pay in the decision. There are only so many resources available in any medical system. After the limits are exceeded doctors and managers start making these terrible decisions of who to treat and who to pray for. Our own system is about to be stressed beyond their limits and people will die from lack of treatment. Deal with it.

By any measure the elderly are the most in need of medical attention

but europe has lost its soul

years back there was a heatwave in france and a large number of elderly died because they were left unattended by their family who went on summer vacation

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Whatever Italy used to be like NOW it is flooded with african and middle eastern illegal aliens claiming refugee status. They are younger than many of the native Italians and want the Italians dead to make room for their replacements. It follows that you will see a lot of Italian elderly dead.

 

[forkup]

Belgium

You don't have socialist healthcare.

We have a healthcare system largely financed by taxes. State-run hospitals. Government-controlled prices for medicine etc. etc. Most countries that you consider having socialized healthcare have some version of this.

And most of your citizens have private health insurance, huh.

We have supplementary insurance. In my case hospitalization insurance. If I get hospitalized I don't have to pay the average of about 500 euro but rather nothing. Our actual health insurance companies are heavily subsidized private companies without a for-profit motive their chairmen are political appointees. For all intents and purposes, they are an extension of our government.

Oh yeah, you're so morally superior in Belgium, huh.

How do you get from asking me, what I consider an intelligent question that I answer, to me claiming moral superiority? Should I not answer you?

 

[sakinago]

Italy is facing serious challenges, with demand for critical care far outstripping supply. Health officials there are having to make very difficult decisions about who to treat – in the knowledge that deciding not to treat will very likely lead to death.

On Thursday the Italian College of Anesthesia, Analgesia, Resuscitation and Intensive Care, issued guidelines advising doctors how to deploy scarce resources when the need for them is outstripped by the demand of critically ill patients. The guidelines state that priority should be given to those who have, first, “greater likelihood of survival and, second, who have more potential years of life”.

As a result, patients with underlying conditions and elderly patients, who are deemed to stand less chance of surviving the virus, may not be treated in favour of healthier and/or younger people who have more chance of recovery.

In the coming months we may face a similar situation in the UK where we do not have the resources necessary to treat all people who will catch Covid-19. So how do healthcare professionals decide who to treat?

Coronavirus may force UK doctors to decide who they’ll save | Jonathan Ives

Very frightening indeed. If you have chronic illnesses or are elderly, what would be going through your mind if you were diagnosed with COVID 19 in Italy, and possibly the entire UK down the road? As a person with both problems, I can tell you I would be scared Shtless.

But I don't have to worry about that, because I'm in the United States, and in the United States, we don't have socialized medical care. If I would unfortunately get the virus, I know I'll be well cared for. If my 88 year old father would get the virus, I know he will be well cared for. Same for my 86 year old mother.

The bass akwards logic of the collective. The needs of the many who just need very cheap chicken noodle soup and ibuprofen, outweigh the needs of the few who need the actual miraculous medical advancements to save their lives. After all, the many will be voting to keep you in power a lot longer than the few you’re going to let die.

 

[forkup]

Never had the slightest illusion I could win you over. Nor do I have the illusion that any of you will ever be able to come up with a rational argument as to why you consider for-profit healthcare superior.

It's superior because we have the better doctors and technology. We don't have to wait for surgery.

And you can, of course, prove this? Your life expectancy is considerably lower, you have a higher mortality rate in most categories of preventable deaths. A notable exception is cancer where you score slightly better. So again why are your supposedly better doctors and technology not reflected in actual statistics?https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/best-healthcare-in-the-world/

Because of the fact longevity is not always, and most not always, related to healthcare. We have a huge drug problem in our country that's now taking over 100,000 lives a year. With the drug problem comes the gang violence which also ends up deadly much of the time. Keep in mind many of these victims are younger people.

Many of our women are career gals. They go to college, get out in their mid 20's, and work on repaying their college debts while starting their career. They have babies much later in life than women of other countries, which gives them a much higher risk of birthing a still born or baby with severe birth defects. Younger women with drug addiction problems also face the same situation.

We also have an obesity problem which is out of control of our medical personnel. Sure, they advise us to lose weight and exercise, but many don't. We don't use public transportation as much as other places, so our automobile deaths are extremely high compared to countries that mostly rely on public transportation.

When you examine all these factors, it clearly demonstrates our problem when it comes to "average" lifespan. Most of the people who pass away are on Medicare which is government healthcare.

Life expectancy is just one of the metrics and not the most indicative. How do mortality rates in the U.S. compare to other countries? - Peterson-Kaiser Health System Tracker
This has absolutely nothing to do with life-expectancy for instance just with your chance of survival if you do get sick. So again why do you guys have higher mortality rates when you do get sick? If the assertion that you guys have better doctors and technology?

Life expectancy is how long the average person lives. Yes, that decreases because of the many young deaths we have. I like how your site states "comparable countries" without naming them. Sounds pretty selective to me to try and make a point.

Americans are workaholics. Ask your wife about that. Most people here don't go to the doctor unless they have no other choice, which in some cases, is too late. Again, drugs and obesity play a part in that as well. In any case, nobody wants to miss work for a cough, cold, or even fever, however this new virus will likely change that.

Now if our healthcare system was so inadequate, why is it VIP's from around the world all come here for serious health problems? Why don't they go to one of these other wonderful "comparable countries?" As a patent at the Cleveland Clinic, I can tell you when I go to their main campus downtown, I'm the one who feels like a foreigner.

I know people that work there as well. When VIP's do come in, it's not even reported on our news. The only way you know of it is if you work in that department, or know somebody that does. Some of them have rented out entire hospital floors for security reasons. The elevator doesn't even stop on that floor unless you have an elevator key. To rent out an entire hospital floor, you know what kind of money these people are worth.

My site if you scroll down a bit does a country by country comparison divided among all major causes of death. So I suggest you go back to it.

As to your cultural differences being a part of that than you have to able to establish not only that you guys work more than other countries but that how you guys deal with work has a direct effect on at which rate you survive diseases. I can, for instance, think of Japanese people having probably a higher work ethic.

Anecdotal evidence like "VIP's come here" so that means our healthcare system is superior doesn't hold water since anecdotes don't change statistics. A fact that you seem to recognize when it comes to other people but not to yourself.

Oh, so when you go to Italy, all you see are healthy well dressed people? Then that settles it. Their healthcare must be better than ours.

But even your anecdotal evidence doesn't make sense. On a population of 11 million 55000 medical procedures here were done on medical tourists. This included the Sultan of Oman.Als de patiënt een sultan is Who first went to Germany for treatment. So when you say they end up in the US and not other nations you are wrong. Medical tourism - Wikipedia The US isn't even in the top of destinations in this category. What are the Most Popular Countries for Medical Tourism?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

It's superior because we have the better doctors and technology. We don't have to wait for surgery.

And you can, of course, prove this? Your life expectancy is considerably lower, you have a higher mortality rate in most categories of preventable deaths. A notable exception is cancer where you score slightly better. So again why are your supposedly better doctors and technology not reflected in actual statistics?https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/best-healthcare-in-the-world/

Because of the fact longevity is not always, and most not always, related to healthcare. We have a huge drug problem in our country that's now taking over 100,000 lives a year. With the drug problem comes the gang violence which also ends up deadly much of the time. Keep in mind many of these victims are younger people.

Many of our women are career gals. They go to college, get out in their mid 20's, and work on repaying their college debts while starting their career. They have babies much later in life than women of other countries, which gives them a much higher risk of birthing a still born or baby with severe birth defects. Younger women with drug addiction problems also face the same situation.

We also have an obesity problem which is out of control of our medical personnel. Sure, they advise us to lose weight and exercise, but many don't. We don't use public transportation as much as other places, so our automobile deaths are extremely high compared to countries that mostly rely on public transportation.

When you examine all these factors, it clearly demonstrates our problem when it comes to "average" lifespan. Most of the people who pass away are on Medicare which is government healthcare.

Life expectancy is just one of the metrics and not the most indicative. How do mortality rates in the U.S. compare to other countries? - Peterson-Kaiser Health System Tracker
This has absolutely nothing to do with life-expectancy for instance just with your chance of survival if you do get sick. So again why do you guys have higher mortality rates when you do get sick? If the assertion that you guys have better doctors and technology?

Life expectancy is how long the average person lives. Yes, that decreases because of the many young deaths we have. I like how your site states "comparable countries" without naming them. Sounds pretty selective to me to try and make a point.

Americans are workaholics. Ask your wife about that. Most people here don't go to the doctor unless they have no other choice, which in some cases, is too late. Again, drugs and obesity play a part in that as well. In any case, nobody wants to miss work for a cough, cold, or even fever, however this new virus will likely change that.

Now if our healthcare system was so inadequate, why is it VIP's from around the world all come here for serious health problems? Why don't they go to one of these other wonderful "comparable countries?" As a patent at the Cleveland Clinic, I can tell you when I go to their main campus downtown, I'm the one who feels like a foreigner.

I know people that work there as well. When VIP's do come in, it's not even reported on our news. The only way you know of it is if you work in that department, or know somebody that does. Some of them have rented out entire hospital floors for security reasons. The elevator doesn't even stop on that floor unless you have an elevator key. To rent out an entire hospital floor, you know what kind of money these people are worth.

My site if you scroll down a bit does a country by country comparison divided among all major causes of death. So I suggest you go back to it.

As to your cultural differences being a part of that than you have to able to establish not only that you guys work more than other countries but that how you guys deal with work has a direct effect on at which rate you survive diseases. I can, for instance, think of Japanese people having probably a higher work ethic.

Anecdotal evidence like "VIP's come here" so that means our healthcare system is superior doesn't hold water since anecdotes don't change statistics. A fact that you seem to recognize when it comes to other people but not to yourself.

Oh, so when you go to Italy, all you see are healthy well dressed people? Then that settles it. Their healthcare must be better than ours.

But even your anecdotal evidence doesn't make sense. On a population of 11 million 55000 medical procedures here were done on medical tourists. This included the Sultan of Oman.Als de patiënt een sultan is Who first went to Germany for treatment. So when you say they end up in the US and not other nations you are wrong. Medical tourism - Wikipedia The US isn't even in the top of destinations in this category. What are the Most Popular Countries for Medical Tourism?

It's all based on how much money you have. No, you can't come to our country and get treated here if you don't have the financial resources, so many don't for that reason. However if you do have the money, this is the place you come to for superior care.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-co...dians-increasingly-come-to-us-for-health-care

Do we have Americans seeking medical care outside of our country? Yes we do. Two of the reasons are uninsured people, and those who's insurance companies are more than delighted their clients are seeking care in much less expensive countries. Some of our insurance companies not only provide coverage for procedures out of country, but encourage it at the same time.

As inbound medical tourism picks up, concerns about overseas care remain

 

[BS Filter]

You don't have socialist healthcare.

We have a healthcare system largely financed by taxes. State-run hospitals. Government-controlled prices for medicine etc. etc. Most countries that you consider having socialized healthcare have some version of this.

And most of your citizens have private health insurance, huh.

We have supplementary insurance. In my case hospitalization insurance. If I get hospitalized I don't have to pay the average of about 500 euro but rather nothing. Our actual health insurance companies are heavily subsidized private companies without a for-profit motive their chairmen are political appointees. For all intents and purposes, they are an extension of our government.

Oh yeah, you're so morally superior in Belgium, huh.

How do you get from asking me, what I consider an intelligent question that I answer, to me claiming moral superiority? Should I not answer you?

You believe the American healthcare system is inferior to yours.

 

[BS Filter]

inb4 THATS NOT REAL SOCIALIZED MEDICINE PRESIDENT BERNIE WILL TAKE CARE OF EVERYBODY

I don't want Bernie taking care of me. I want my doctors taking care of me with as little government influence as possible.

 

[forkup]

And you can, of course, prove this? Your life expectancy is considerably lower, you have a higher mortality rate in most categories of preventable deaths. A notable exception is cancer where you score slightly better. So again why are your supposedly better doctors and technology not reflected in actual statistics?https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/best-healthcare-in-the-world/

Because of the fact longevity is not always, and most not always, related to healthcare. We have a huge drug problem in our country that's now taking over 100,000 lives a year. With the drug problem comes the gang violence which also ends up deadly much of the time. Keep in mind many of these victims are younger people.

Many of our women are career gals. They go to college, get out in their mid 20's, and work on repaying their college debts while starting their career. They have babies much later in life than women of other countries, which gives them a much higher risk of birthing a still born or baby with severe birth defects. Younger women with drug addiction problems also face the same situation.

We also have an obesity problem which is out of control of our medical personnel. Sure, they advise us to lose weight and exercise, but many don't. We don't use public transportation as much as other places, so our automobile deaths are extremely high compared to countries that mostly rely on public transportation.

When you examine all these factors, it clearly demonstrates our problem when it comes to "average" lifespan. Most of the people who pass away are on Medicare which is government healthcare.

Life expectancy is just one of the metrics and not the most indicative. How do mortality rates in the U.S. compare to other countries? - Peterson-Kaiser Health System Tracker
This has absolutely nothing to do with life-expectancy for instance just with your chance of survival if you do get sick. So again why do you guys have higher mortality rates when you do get sick? If the assertion that you guys have better doctors and technology?

Life expectancy is how long the average person lives. Yes, that decreases because of the many young deaths we have. I like how your site states "comparable countries" without naming them. Sounds pretty selective to me to try and make a point.

Americans are workaholics. Ask your wife about that. Most people here don't go to the doctor unless they have no other choice, which in some cases, is too late. Again, drugs and obesity play a part in that as well. In any case, nobody wants to miss work for a cough, cold, or even fever, however this new virus will likely change that.

Now if our healthcare system was so inadequate, why is it VIP's from around the world all come here for serious health problems? Why don't they go to one of these other wonderful "comparable countries?" As a patent at the Cleveland Clinic, I can tell you when I go to their main campus downtown, I'm the one who feels like a foreigner.

I know people that work there as well. When VIP's do come in, it's not even reported on our news. The only way you know of it is if you work in that department, or know somebody that does. Some of them have rented out entire hospital floors for security reasons. The elevator doesn't even stop on that floor unless you have an elevator key. To rent out an entire hospital floor, you know what kind of money these people are worth.

My site if you scroll down a bit does a country by country comparison divided among all major causes of death. So I suggest you go back to it.

As to your cultural differences being a part of that than you have to able to establish not only that you guys work more than other countries but that how you guys deal with work has a direct effect on at which rate you survive diseases. I can, for instance, think of Japanese people having probably a higher work ethic.

Anecdotal evidence like "VIP's come here" so that means our healthcare system is superior doesn't hold water since anecdotes don't change statistics. A fact that you seem to recognize when it comes to other people but not to yourself.

Oh, so when you go to Italy, all you see are healthy well dressed people? Then that settles it. Their healthcare must be better than ours.

But even your anecdotal evidence doesn't make sense. On a population of 11 million 55000 medical procedures here were done on medical tourists. This included the Sultan of Oman.Als de patiënt een sultan is Who first went to Germany for treatment. So when you say they end up in the US and not other nations you are wrong. Medical tourism - Wikipedia The US isn't even in the top of destinations in this category. What are the Most Popular Countries for Medical Tourism?

It's all based on how much money you have. No, you can't come to our country and get treated here if you don't have the financial resources, so many don't for that reason. However if you do have the money, this is the place you come to for superior care.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-co...dians-increasingly-come-to-us-for-health-care

Do we have Americans seeking medical care outside of our country? Yes we do. Two of the reasons are uninsured people, and those who's insurance companies are more than delighted their clients are seeking care in much less expensive countries. Some of our insurance companies not only provide coverage for procedures out of country, but encourage it at the same time.

As inbound medical tourism picks up, concerns about overseas care remain

Apparently the Sultan of Oman disagrees. You are trying to use medical tourism as a metric for the quality of your care. Something I find a very dubious metric to begin with. Quality at the highest end of medical care says very little about overall quality. A country can set up the best hospital in the world and still have atrocious healthcare for nearly all it's citizens.

Then when I point that the US is not even close to the most popular destination in that category you come back with a bold statement without even attempting to prove it, that explains why that metric doesn't play out in real life.

I also noted that you don't even attempt to address my first couple of paragraphs asking you to explain why the US scores so bad compared to other nations in mortality rates.

 

[forkup]

We have a healthcare system largely financed by taxes. State-run hospitals. Government-controlled prices for medicine etc. etc. Most countries that you consider having socialized healthcare have some version of this.

And most of your citizens have private health insurance, huh.

We have supplementary insurance. In my case hospitalization insurance. If I get hospitalized I don't have to pay the average of about 500 euro but rather nothing. Our actual health insurance companies are heavily subsidized private companies without a for-profit motive their chairmen are political appointees. For all intents and purposes, they are an extension of our government.

Oh yeah, you're so morally superior in Belgium, huh.

How do you get from asking me, what I consider an intelligent question that I answer, to me claiming moral superiority? Should I not answer you?

You believe the American healthcare system is inferior to yours.

I believe that is true from a rational standpoint. As you believe yours is better seemingly without an actual base in rationality. It has absolutely nothing to do with believing I'm morally superior. I can be petty, arrogant, callous, etc. etc. You might be the nicest person alive, I don't know.

Facts are facts and I was under the impression that when discussing and defending an opinion it's best to use facts. I can't help that the facts don't support your opinion.

 

[mikegriffith1]

Yeah, it's interesting that you don't hear any liberals talking about the glories of socialized medicine in Italy.

 

[BS Filter]

And most of your citizens have private health insurance, huh.

We have supplementary insurance. In my case hospitalization insurance. If I get hospitalized I don't have to pay the average of about 500 euro but rather nothing. Our actual health insurance companies are heavily subsidized private companies without a for-profit motive their chairmen are political appointees. For all intents and purposes, they are an extension of our government.

Oh yeah, you're so morally superior in Belgium, huh.

How do you get from asking me, what I consider an intelligent question that I answer, to me claiming moral superiority? Should I not answer you?

You believe the American healthcare system is inferior to yours.

I believe that is true from a rational standpoint. As you believe yours is better seemingly without an actual base in rationality. It has absolutely nothing to do with believing I'm morally superior. I can be petty, arrogant, callous, etc. etc. You might be the nicest person alive, I don't know.

Facts are facts and I was under the impression that when discussing and defending an opinion it's best to use facts. I can't help that the facts don't support your opinion.

You don't know what the facts are. You read an article or some propaganda and believe that you have the "facts". You have absolutely no real experience about what you're promoting and expounding on.

 

[colfax_m]

The socialists here will deny it, but we all know that this is exactly what happens with socialist medicine.

And it’s exactly what’ll happen here if we had the level of medical need some places in Italy are facing.

 

[forkup]

We have supplementary insurance. In my case hospitalization insurance. If I get hospitalized I don't have to pay the average of about 500 euro but rather nothing. Our actual health insurance companies are heavily subsidized private companies without a for-profit motive their chairmen are political appointees. For all intents and purposes, they are an extension of our government.

Oh yeah, you're so morally superior in Belgium, huh.

How do you get from asking me, what I consider an intelligent question that I answer, to me claiming moral superiority? Should I not answer you?

You believe the American healthcare system is inferior to yours.

I believe that is true from a rational standpoint. As you believe yours is better seemingly without an actual base in rationality. It has absolutely nothing to do with believing I'm morally superior. I can be petty, arrogant, callous, etc. etc. You might be the nicest person alive, I don't know.

Facts are facts and I was under the impression that when discussing and defending an opinion it's best to use facts. I can't help that the facts don't support your opinion.

You don't know what the facts are. You read an article or some propaganda and believe that you have the "facts". You have absolutely no real experience about what you're promoting and expounding on.

First, I have given you reports from the NGOs that collect the data. Since you made it a point to object me sourcing Wikipedia. If you object to them. You are free to find other materials. You have not done so.

Secondly personal experience they call anecdotal evidence, as such it can't be used to prove anything. You are also wrong. My wife, mother-in-law and one of my brothers'-in-law have lived and are living your health care system to their detriment. If I'd use it though you would, rightfully I might add, recognize it as anecdotal and subsequentially dismiss it.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Yeah, it's interesting that you don't hear any liberals talking about the glories of socialized medicine in Italy.

Not at this time we don't. When it blows over, they will be bringing up Europe's socialized medical care once again.

 

[BS Filter]

Oh yeah, you're so morally superior in Belgium, huh.

How do you get from asking me, what I consider an intelligent question that I answer, to me claiming moral superiority? Should I not answer you?

You believe the American healthcare system is inferior to yours.

I believe that is true from a rational standpoint. As you believe yours is better seemingly without an actual base in rationality. It has absolutely nothing to do with believing I'm morally superior. I can be petty, arrogant, callous, etc. etc. You might be the nicest person alive, I don't know.

Facts are facts and I was under the impression that when discussing and defending an opinion it's best to use facts. I can't help that the facts don't support your opinion.

You don't know what the facts are. You read an article or some propaganda and believe that you have the "facts". You have absolutely no real experience about what you're promoting and expounding on.

First, I have given you reports from the NGOs that collect the data. Since you made it a point to object me sourcing Wikipedia. If you object to them. You are free to find other materials. You have not done so.

Secondly personal experience they call anecdotal evidence, as such it can't be used to prove anything. You are also wrong. My wife, mother-in-law and one of my brothers'-in-law have lived and are living your health care system to their detriment. If I'd use it though you would, rightfully I might add, recognize it as anecdotal and subsequentially dismiss it.

I have experienced two heart attacks and cancer twice. I would never go anywhere else. The USA is the best.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Because of the fact longevity is not always, and most not always, related to healthcare. We have a huge drug problem in our country that's now taking over 100,000 lives a year. With the drug problem comes the gang violence which also ends up deadly much of the time. Keep in mind many of these victims are younger people.

Many of our women are career gals. They go to college, get out in their mid 20's, and work on repaying their college debts while starting their career. They have babies much later in life than women of other countries, which gives them a much higher risk of birthing a still born or baby with severe birth defects. Younger women with drug addiction problems also face the same situation.

We also have an obesity problem which is out of control of our medical personnel. Sure, they advise us to lose weight and exercise, but many don't. We don't use public transportation as much as other places, so our automobile deaths are extremely high compared to countries that mostly rely on public transportation.

When you examine all these factors, it clearly demonstrates our problem when it comes to "average" lifespan. Most of the people who pass away are on Medicare which is government healthcare.

Life expectancy is just one of the metrics and not the most indicative. How do mortality rates in the U.S. compare to other countries? - Peterson-Kaiser Health System Tracker
This has absolutely nothing to do with life-expectancy for instance just with your chance of survival if you do get sick. So again why do you guys have higher mortality rates when you do get sick? If the assertion that you guys have better doctors and technology?

Life expectancy is how long the average person lives. Yes, that decreases because of the many young deaths we have. I like how your site states "comparable countries" without naming them. Sounds pretty selective to me to try and make a point.

Americans are workaholics. Ask your wife about that. Most people here don't go to the doctor unless they have no other choice, which in some cases, is too late. Again, drugs and obesity play a part in that as well. In any case, nobody wants to miss work for a cough, cold, or even fever, however this new virus will likely change that.

Now if our healthcare system was so inadequate, why is it VIP's from around the world all come here for serious health problems? Why don't they go to one of these other wonderful "comparable countries?" As a patent at the Cleveland Clinic, I can tell you when I go to their main campus downtown, I'm the one who feels like a foreigner.

I know people that work there as well. When VIP's do come in, it's not even reported on our news. The only way you know of it is if you work in that department, or know somebody that does. Some of them have rented out entire hospital floors for security reasons. The elevator doesn't even stop on that floor unless you have an elevator key. To rent out an entire hospital floor, you know what kind of money these people are worth.

My site if you scroll down a bit does a country by country comparison divided among all major causes of death. So I suggest you go back to it.

As to your cultural differences being a part of that than you have to able to establish not only that you guys work more than other countries but that how you guys deal with work has a direct effect on at which rate you survive diseases. I can, for instance, think of Japanese people having probably a higher work ethic.

Anecdotal evidence like "VIP's come here" so that means our healthcare system is superior doesn't hold water since anecdotes don't change statistics. A fact that you seem to recognize when it comes to other people but not to yourself.

Oh, so when you go to Italy, all you see are healthy well dressed people? Then that settles it. Their healthcare must be better than ours.

But even your anecdotal evidence doesn't make sense. On a population of 11 million 55000 medical procedures here were done on medical tourists. This included the Sultan of Oman.Als de patiënt een sultan is Who first went to Germany for treatment. So when you say they end up in the US and not other nations you are wrong. Medical tourism - Wikipedia The US isn't even in the top of destinations in this category. What are the Most Popular Countries for Medical Tourism?

It's all based on how much money you have. No, you can't come to our country and get treated here if you don't have the financial resources, so many don't for that reason. However if you do have the money, this is the place you come to for superior care.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-co...dians-increasingly-come-to-us-for-health-care

Do we have Americans seeking medical care outside of our country? Yes we do. Two of the reasons are uninsured people, and those who's insurance companies are more than delighted their clients are seeking care in much less expensive countries. Some of our insurance companies not only provide coverage for procedures out of country, but encourage it at the same time.

As inbound medical tourism picks up, concerns about overseas care remain

Apparently the Sultan of Oman disagrees. You are trying to use medical tourism as a metric for the quality of your care. Something I find a very dubious metric to begin with. Quality at the highest end of medical care says very little about overall quality. A country can set up the best hospital in the world and still have atrocious healthcare for nearly all it's citizens.

Then when I point that the US is not even close to the most popular destination in that category you come back with a bold statement without even attempting to prove it, that explains why that metric doesn't play out in real life.

I also noted that you don't even attempt to address my first couple of paragraphs asking you to explain why the US scores so bad compared to other nations in mortality rates.

I've addressed that question several times. Sorry your memory is such a problem. Must be that government healthcare you have.

My second article did address why and who comes here for medical services. Yes, they are people with enough, or more than enough money to pay for such services which is not most of the world. Every wealthy person? Not at all. There are some who hate our country and wouldn't give us the time of day. There are some drugs that didn't pass our government FDA standard for safety, and only available in other countries.

More than that is the fact many of our medical personnel are foreigners as well. In the US, over 25% of our healthcare workers are foreigners from other countries. Our pay level and ability to live a very good life as a physician are why we do attract the best from around the globe.

 

[forkup]

How do you get from asking me, what I consider an intelligent question that I answer, to me claiming moral superiority? Should I not answer you?

You believe the American healthcare system is inferior to yours.

I believe that is true from a rational standpoint. As you believe yours is better seemingly without an actual base in rationality. It has absolutely nothing to do with believing I'm morally superior. I can be petty, arrogant, callous, etc. etc. You might be the nicest person alive, I don't know.

Facts are facts and I was under the impression that when discussing and defending an opinion it's best to use facts. I can't help that the facts don't support your opinion.

You don't know what the facts are. You read an article or some propaganda and believe that you have the "facts". You have absolutely no real experience about what you're promoting and expounding on.

First, I have given you reports from the NGOs that collect the data. Since you made it a point to object me sourcing Wikipedia. If you object to them. You are free to find other materials. You have not done so.

Secondly personal experience they call anecdotal evidence, as such it can't be used to prove anything. You are also wrong. My wife, mother-in-law and one of my brothers'-in-law have lived and are living your health care system to their detriment. If I'd use it though you would, rightfully I might add, recognize it as anecdotal and subsequentially dismiss it.

I have experienced two heart attacks and cancer twice. I would never go anywhere else. The USA is the best.

Bold statements, personal opinion, and anecdotal evidence. All in three sentences. As I said you do not have anything rational to support your opinion.

 

[forkup]

Life expectancy is just one of the metrics and not the most indicative. How do mortality rates in the U.S. compare to other countries? - Peterson-Kaiser Health System Tracker
This has absolutely nothing to do with life-expectancy for instance just with your chance of survival if you do get sick. So again why do you guys have higher mortality rates when you do get sick? If the assertion that you guys have better doctors and technology?

Life expectancy is how long the average person lives. Yes, that decreases because of the many young deaths we have. I like how your site states "comparable countries" without naming them. Sounds pretty selective to me to try and make a point.

Americans are workaholics. Ask your wife about that. Most people here don't go to the doctor unless they have no other choice, which in some cases, is too late. Again, drugs and obesity play a part in that as well. In any case, nobody wants to miss work for a cough, cold, or even fever, however this new virus will likely change that.

Now if our healthcare system was so inadequate, why is it VIP's from around the world all come here for serious health problems? Why don't they go to one of these other wonderful "comparable countries?" As a patent at the Cleveland Clinic, I can tell you when I go to their main campus downtown, I'm the one who feels like a foreigner.

I know people that work there as well. When VIP's do come in, it's not even reported on our news. The only way you know of it is if you work in that department, or know somebody that does. Some of them have rented out entire hospital floors for security reasons. The elevator doesn't even stop on that floor unless you have an elevator key. To rent out an entire hospital floor, you know what kind of money these people are worth.

My site if you scroll down a bit does a country by country comparison divided among all major causes of death. So I suggest you go back to it.

As to your cultural differences being a part of that than you have to able to establish not only that you guys work more than other countries but that how you guys deal with work has a direct effect on at which rate you survive diseases. I can, for instance, think of Japanese people having probably a higher work ethic.

Anecdotal evidence like "VIP's come here" so that means our healthcare system is superior doesn't hold water since anecdotes don't change statistics. A fact that you seem to recognize when it comes to other people but not to yourself.

Oh, so when you go to Italy, all you see are healthy well dressed people? Then that settles it. Their healthcare must be better than ours.

But even your anecdotal evidence doesn't make sense. On a population of 11 million 55000 medical procedures here were done on medical tourists. This included the Sultan of Oman.Als de patiënt een sultan is Who first went to Germany for treatment. So when you say they end up in the US and not other nations you are wrong. Medical tourism - Wikipedia The US isn't even in the top of destinations in this category. What are the Most Popular Countries for Medical Tourism?

It's all based on how much money you have. No, you can't come to our country and get treated here if you don't have the financial resources, so many don't for that reason. However if you do have the money, this is the place you come to for superior care.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-co...dians-increasingly-come-to-us-for-health-care

Do we have Americans seeking medical care outside of our country? Yes we do. Two of the reasons are uninsured people, and those who's insurance companies are more than delighted their clients are seeking care in much less expensive countries. Some of our insurance companies not only provide coverage for procedures out of country, but encourage it at the same time.

As inbound medical tourism picks up, concerns about overseas care remain

Apparently the Sultan of Oman disagrees. You are trying to use medical tourism as a metric for the quality of your care. Something I find a very dubious metric to begin with. Quality at the highest end of medical care says very little about overall quality. A country can set up the best hospital in the world and still have atrocious healthcare for nearly all it's citizens.

Then when I point that the US is not even close to the most popular destination in that category you come back with a bold statement without even attempting to prove it, that explains why that metric doesn't play out in real life.

I also noted that you don't even attempt to address my first couple of paragraphs asking you to explain why the US scores so bad compared to other nations in mortality rates.

I've addressed that question several times. Sorry your memory is such a problem. Must be that government healthcare you have.

My second article did address why and who comes here for medical services. Yes, they are people with enough, or more than enough money to pay for such services which is not most of the world. Every wealthy person? Not at all. There are some who hate our country and wouldn't give us the time of day. There are some drugs that didn't pass our government FDA standard for safety, and only available in other countries.

More than that is the fact many of our medical personnel are foreigners as well. In the US, over 25% of our healthcare workers are foreigners from other countries. Our pay level and ability to live a very good life as a physician are why we do attract the best from around the globe.

You addressed it once. trying to claim American work ethic somehow leads to hearth attacks being more deadly, diabetes being more deadly etc. etc. You didn't try to support it and I pointed out that there are other countries that have an even stronger work ethic that still do considerably better.

You broad-brushed I didn't. I also explained why it's a bad metric and why the metric itself doesn't stand an actual factual examination.

As to your, " our doctors are foreigners who come here so they have to be the best in the world" How does that work in your head? A simply qualified doctor won't be as attracted to high pay so we only get the best? Do you guys reject qualified doctors? As it is the US doesn't have more doctors per capita than most countries, considerably less than a lot.

So again if you want to establish causality it would be helpful if you would support it.

 

[BS Filter]

You believe the American healthcare system is inferior to yours.

I believe that is true from a rational standpoint. As you believe yours is better seemingly without an actual base in rationality. It has absolutely nothing to do with believing I'm morally superior. I can be petty, arrogant, callous, etc. etc. You might be the nicest person alive, I don't know.

Facts are facts and I was under the impression that when discussing and defending an opinion it's best to use facts. I can't help that the facts don't support your opinion.

You don't know what the facts are. You read an article or some propaganda and believe that you have the "facts". You have absolutely no real experience about what you're promoting and expounding on.

First, I have given you reports from the NGOs that collect the data. Since you made it a point to object me sourcing Wikipedia. If you object to them. You are free to find other materials. You have not done so.

Secondly personal experience they call anecdotal evidence, as such it can't be used to prove anything. You are also wrong. My wife, mother-in-law and one of my brothers'-in-law have lived and are living your health care system to their detriment. If I'd use it though you would, rightfully I might add, recognize it as anecdotal and subsequentially dismiss it.

I have experienced two heart attacks and cancer twice. I would never go anywhere else. The USA is the best.

Bold statements, personal opinion, and anecdotal evidence. All in three sentences. As I said you do not have anything rational to support your opinion.

Oh, shove it. Sell your propaganda to some naive college kids.