Socialized Healthcare. Italy May Not Treat The Elderly--COVID 19.

eagle1462010

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America Needs to Stop Subsidizing Europe and Canada’s Prescription Drugs | RealClearPolitics

The Europeans and Canadians (as well as the rest of the world) are free-riding on the back of American medical innovators. European countries and Canada – our trading allies – impede access and set artificially low prices for prescription medicines. If U.S. companies refuse to acquiesce on prices, these foreign governments threaten to steal their patents by using compulsory licensing. It’s that simple: Europe and Canada refuse to pay their fair share forcing Americans to pay more.

Americans pay the highest prices for prescription drugs in the world. In 2016, U.S. spending on pharmaceuticals totaled more than $450 billion – a rate that’s two to six times higher than the world average.

The reason boils down to “compulsory licensing.” As the World Trade Organization explains, this is when “a government allows someone else to produce a patented product or process without the consent of the patent owner or plans to use the patent-protected invention itself.” These foreign governments put U.S. biopharmaceutical companies in a proverbial “gun-to-the-head” situation – i.e., sell us the drugs at the bogus price we demand, or don’t and we’ll just take it.
 
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Ray From Cleveland

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America Needs to Stop Subsidizing Europe and Canada’s Prescription Drugs | RealClearPolitics

The Europeans and Canadians (as well as the rest of the world) are free-riding on the back of American medical innovators. European countries and Canada – our trading allies – impede access and set artificially low prices for prescription medicines. If U.S. companies refuse to acquiesce on prices, these foreign governments threaten to steal their patents by using compulsory licensing. It’s that simple: Europe and Canada refuse to pay their fair share forcing Americans to pay more.

Americans pay the highest prices for prescription drugs in the world. In 2016, U.S. spending on pharmaceuticals totaled more than $450 billion – a rate that’s two to six times higher than the world average.

The reason boils down to “compulsory licensing.” As the World Trade Organization explains, this is when “a government allows someone else to produce a patented product or process without the consent of the patent owner or plans to use the patent-protected invention itself.” These foreign governments put U.S. biopharmaceutical companies in a proverbial “gun-to-the-head” situation – i.e., sell us the drugs at the bogus price we demand, or don’t and we’ll just take it.
Excellent post, and who is it that pumps the tens of millions of dollars for testing on our drugs? What government has the strictest and most expensive requirements to put a drug on the market today?
 
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Ray From Cleveland

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What makes this country great is that we live by the US Constitution. In that Constitution, is listed what our founders wanted the federal government to be responsible for. If they wanted it to be responsible for everything at our whim, they would have never listed what they are to be in charge of.

You see, if we took all the suggestions of the left, and made this place what it wasn't supposed to be, we would be no different than any other country. But our founders wanted it to be different, and so do real Americans. We want to be different than those other countries which is why you came here in the first place.

What you don't understand about freedom is that you are not only free to succeed, but free to fail as well. The federal government is not supposed to be the decider between the two. Our founders wanted the federal government to stay our of our lives, not be a major part in it.

"I cannot undertake to lay my finger, on that article of the Constitution that grants Congress the right, of expending on articles of benevolence, the money of their constituents."
James Madison, annals of Congress, 1794
The constitution is not gospel...and the founders weren't Angel's sent from god. It needs to be modified and laws need to change.
I'm sorry but I cant go on in this subject with you...you are super brainwashed and thick. Enjoy seeing americans suffering just because you beleive lies. In fact you dont give a fuck just like those that brainwashed you and endocrine you through media and education. Watch your money bail corporations, military contractors, politicians, and screwm socialism when it comes to health and education.

Dont answer me please, it irritates the shit out of me how stupid you guys are.
They may not have been angels, but they were brilliant enough to form the foundation of our country. Yes, they knew things would likely change, and they created an amendment process for that, but it takes most of the people to do the actual change, and not a simple majority.

Because of those founders, and the Constitution, we became the greatest and strongest country in just a few hundred years, especially when compared to other civilizations that have been around thousands. It's like the old saying goes, if it's not broke--don't fix it.
It is broke....
Where we rank in education? Health? Life expectancy ? Safety net? Crimes ? Obesity ?
Is not about the military and the big toys....I constantly travel the world and the US is not the greatest country....the only measure to decide if country is great or not is how people are treated and live.
You cheering for a savage capitalism that I'm sure hurts your personally on daily basis like millions of middle class and low class americans..but they brainwashed to beleive that you are living of lives. And no one compares.
I cant help you, you must old and your brain is not open an update.
I'm not old, but older. Before you even knew this country existed (or maybe even born) I was living in it. You see, looking at your list above, you are stating we are not the greatest because government didn't totally address those issues. But guess what? They did! Government is involved in our education, our health, our life expectancy, multiple safety nets, and obesity is the one personal decision, however Hussein's wife tried to address that in total failure. DumBama forced restaurants to list calorie count because only government (in the mind of a liberal) is smart enough to tell you that a Big Mac combo is fattening!

If the US is not the greatest country, WTF are you doing living here? Why are millions trying to penetrate our borders to come here? Why do the legal immigrants spend thousands of dollars wait for many years, just be be accepted and be a citizen of this country? Why did thousands die trying to get here illegally?

Since you're an immigrant yourself, tell me what other country is better, and why you don't move there instead? And don't say it's because of the money, because that would highlight one of the greatest assets of our country which is capitalism. It is capitalism why people want to come here; to be rewarded for extra hard work they were never rewarded with in their former country. It's capitalism that made us one of the most wealthiest, if not the wealthiest countries in the world.
People have been migrating since day one that voids your argument, why many wants to be here or there. People move where they feel they can do better. Doesnt always mean is the best place or decision.
Many counties have a way better quality of life than the US, hence that's why America is not the best country in the world. They might have the biggest army, but still lost many conflicts...doesnt have the best education, health system, lower crimes, drug abuse and so forth.

Isn't the government supposed to be by the people for the people ? Than let the majority decide how the government spends their money, instead trillions for useless wars, let's take care of the sick, the poor and mainly the dumbest uneducated millions in this great land. As an immigrant whose English is the 4th language I was shocked to find myself surrounded by natives who struggled with their own language, comes the finals i was even more shocked at how clueless they were in so many subjects and yet education is paid for by loans that they will have to pay off for years, while most of the world kids dont have to pay a penny to get higher education.

You are doomed, millenials have to wait a bit till your generation hits the door before things get better at all or maybe it will be too late.
The US spends more per capita on primary education than any other country in the world. What more do you want from us? A terrible disease hit our country years ago, it was called liberalism.

The movement dictated that men were only sperm donors. Women can do just fine raising children without a father. Who needs them around? While the movement weakened, the message didn't. In some black communities today(where education and crime are a real problem) the out of wedlock birth rate is in the 90% range. Women find themselves helpless against the aggression of growing children, particularly males when they near or hit their teen years.

I see it all the time where I live; kids out well past dark on a school night, sometimes as late as 11:00 at night. A former neighbor of mine had a basketball hoop setup in his yard. The kids came over after school, and didn't leave until I yelled at them to cut it out for the night which was past 10:00. This was every day and night weather providing.

So why were these children not home doing homework, getting to bed early so they can have a productive school day? Where are the parent(s) of all these kids in the yard?

If the parent is too tired to raise their children because of their job, then the best education in the world isn't going to help them. Education doesn't start when that kid jumps on the yellow bus, and ends when he or she jumps off that bus. Parents must be very involved for education to work. So don't blame the government, blame the individuals.
 

Issa

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The constitution is not gospel...and the founders weren't Angel's sent from god. It needs to be modified and laws need to change.
I'm sorry but I cant go on in this subject with you...you are super brainwashed and thick. Enjoy seeing americans suffering just because you beleive lies. In fact you dont give a fuck just like those that brainwashed you and endocrine you through media and education. Watch your money bail corporations, military contractors, politicians, and screwm socialism when it comes to health and education.

Dont answer me please, it irritates the shit out of me how stupid you guys are.
They may not have been angels, but they were brilliant enough to form the foundation of our country. Yes, they knew things would likely change, and they created an amendment process for that, but it takes most of the people to do the actual change, and not a simple majority.

Because of those founders, and the Constitution, we became the greatest and strongest country in just a few hundred years, especially when compared to other civilizations that have been around thousands. It's like the old saying goes, if it's not broke--don't fix it.
It is broke....
Where we rank in education? Health? Life expectancy ? Safety net? Crimes ? Obesity ?
Is not about the military and the big toys....I constantly travel the world and the US is not the greatest country....the only measure to decide if country is great or not is how people are treated and live.
You cheering for a savage capitalism that I'm sure hurts your personally on daily basis like millions of middle class and low class americans..but they brainwashed to beleive that you are living of lives. And no one compares.
I cant help you, you must old and your brain is not open an update.
I'm not old, but older. Before you even knew this country existed (or maybe even born) I was living in it. You see, looking at your list above, you are stating we are not the greatest because government didn't totally address those issues. But guess what? They did! Government is involved in our education, our health, our life expectancy, multiple safety nets, and obesity is the one personal decision, however Hussein's wife tried to address that in total failure. DumBama forced restaurants to list calorie count because only government (in the mind of a liberal) is smart enough to tell you that a Big Mac combo is fattening!

If the US is not the greatest country, WTF are you doing living here? Why are millions trying to penetrate our borders to come here? Why do the legal immigrants spend thousands of dollars wait for many years, just be be accepted and be a citizen of this country? Why did thousands die trying to get here illegally?

Since you're an immigrant yourself, tell me what other country is better, and why you don't move there instead? And don't say it's because of the money, because that would highlight one of the greatest assets of our country which is capitalism. It is capitalism why people want to come here; to be rewarded for extra hard work they were never rewarded with in their former country. It's capitalism that made us one of the most wealthiest, if not the wealthiest countries in the world.
People have been migrating since day one that voids your argument, why many wants to be here or there. People move where they feel they can do better. Doesnt always mean is the best place or decision.
Many counties have a way better quality of life than the US, hence that's why America is not the best country in the world. They might have the biggest army, but still lost many conflicts...doesnt have the best education, health system, lower crimes, drug abuse and so forth.

Isn't the government supposed to be by the people for the people ? Than let the majority decide how the government spends their money, instead trillions for useless wars, let's take care of the sick, the poor and mainly the dumbest uneducated millions in this great land. As an immigrant whose English is the 4th language I was shocked to find myself surrounded by natives who struggled with their own language, comes the finals i was even more shocked at how clueless they were in so many subjects and yet education is paid for by loans that they will have to pay off for years, while most of the world kids dont have to pay a penny to get higher education.

You are doomed, millenials have to wait a bit till your generation hits the door before things get better at all or maybe it will be too late.
The US spends more per capita on primary education than any other country in the world. What more do you want from us? A terrible disease hit our country years ago, it was called liberalism.

The movement dictated that men were only sperm donors. Women can do just fine raising children without a father. Who needs them around? While the movement weakened, the message didn't. In some black communities today(where education and crime are a real problem) the out of wedlock birth rate is in the 90% range. Women find themselves helpless against the aggression of growing children, particularly males when they near or hit their teen years.

I see it all the time where I live; kids out well past dark on a school night, sometimes as late as 11:00 at night. A former neighbor of mine had a basketball hoop setup in his yard. The kids came over after school, and didn't leave until I yelled at them to cut it out for the night which was past 10:00. This was every day and night weather providing.

So why were these children not home doing homework, getting to bed early so they can have a productive school day? Where are the parent(s) of all these kids in the yard?

If the parent is too tired to raise their children because of their job, then the best education in the world isn't going to help them. Education doesn't start when that kid jumps on the yellow bus, and ends when he or she jumps off that bus. Parents must be very involved for education to work. So don't blame the government, blame the individuals.
I agree with you on most of what you said....but you are still brainwashed to vote and think against your own interest. I've told you, i've lived here 20 years and have family , friends all over the world, and i ttravel a ton...other countries told you.....but you still stand by you close minded idea that we don't deserve a universal health care system, free education and so forth.

Why we score poorly on life expectancy, and disaese amonst mostly developed countries? why have millions uninsured if we are the greatest country in the world?

But now i'm sure you will hail trump for sending those checks and bailing the whole capitalism, because you just follow no matter what and clap.
 
OP
Ray From Cleveland

Ray From Cleveland

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They may not have been angels, but they were brilliant enough to form the foundation of our country. Yes, they knew things would likely change, and they created an amendment process for that, but it takes most of the people to do the actual change, and not a simple majority.

Because of those founders, and the Constitution, we became the greatest and strongest country in just a few hundred years, especially when compared to other civilizations that have been around thousands. It's like the old saying goes, if it's not broke--don't fix it.
It is broke....
Where we rank in education? Health? Life expectancy ? Safety net? Crimes ? Obesity ?
Is not about the military and the big toys....I constantly travel the world and the US is not the greatest country....the only measure to decide if country is great or not is how people are treated and live.
You cheering for a savage capitalism that I'm sure hurts your personally on daily basis like millions of middle class and low class americans..but they brainwashed to beleive that you are living of lives. And no one compares.
I cant help you, you must old and your brain is not open an update.
I'm not old, but older. Before you even knew this country existed (or maybe even born) I was living in it. You see, looking at your list above, you are stating we are not the greatest because government didn't totally address those issues. But guess what? They did! Government is involved in our education, our health, our life expectancy, multiple safety nets, and obesity is the one personal decision, however Hussein's wife tried to address that in total failure. DumBama forced restaurants to list calorie count because only government (in the mind of a liberal) is smart enough to tell you that a Big Mac combo is fattening!

If the US is not the greatest country, WTF are you doing living here? Why are millions trying to penetrate our borders to come here? Why do the legal immigrants spend thousands of dollars wait for many years, just be be accepted and be a citizen of this country? Why did thousands die trying to get here illegally?

Since you're an immigrant yourself, tell me what other country is better, and why you don't move there instead? And don't say it's because of the money, because that would highlight one of the greatest assets of our country which is capitalism. It is capitalism why people want to come here; to be rewarded for extra hard work they were never rewarded with in their former country. It's capitalism that made us one of the most wealthiest, if not the wealthiest countries in the world.
People have been migrating since day one that voids your argument, why many wants to be here or there. People move where they feel they can do better. Doesnt always mean is the best place or decision.
Many counties have a way better quality of life than the US, hence that's why America is not the best country in the world. They might have the biggest army, but still lost many conflicts...doesnt have the best education, health system, lower crimes, drug abuse and so forth.

Isn't the government supposed to be by the people for the people ? Than let the majority decide how the government spends their money, instead trillions for useless wars, let's take care of the sick, the poor and mainly the dumbest uneducated millions in this great land. As an immigrant whose English is the 4th language I was shocked to find myself surrounded by natives who struggled with their own language, comes the finals i was even more shocked at how clueless they were in so many subjects and yet education is paid for by loans that they will have to pay off for years, while most of the world kids dont have to pay a penny to get higher education.

You are doomed, millenials have to wait a bit till your generation hits the door before things get better at all or maybe it will be too late.
The US spends more per capita on primary education than any other country in the world. What more do you want from us? A terrible disease hit our country years ago, it was called liberalism.

The movement dictated that men were only sperm donors. Women can do just fine raising children without a father. Who needs them around? While the movement weakened, the message didn't. In some black communities today(where education and crime are a real problem) the out of wedlock birth rate is in the 90% range. Women find themselves helpless against the aggression of growing children, particularly males when they near or hit their teen years.

I see it all the time where I live; kids out well past dark on a school night, sometimes as late as 11:00 at night. A former neighbor of mine had a basketball hoop setup in his yard. The kids came over after school, and didn't leave until I yelled at them to cut it out for the night which was past 10:00. This was every day and night weather providing.

So why were these children not home doing homework, getting to bed early so they can have a productive school day? Where are the parent(s) of all these kids in the yard?

If the parent is too tired to raise their children because of their job, then the best education in the world isn't going to help them. Education doesn't start when that kid jumps on the yellow bus, and ends when he or she jumps off that bus. Parents must be very involved for education to work. So don't blame the government, blame the individuals.
I agree with you on most of what you said....but you are still brainwashed to vote and think against your own interest. I've told you, i've lived here 20 years and have family , friends all over the world, and i ttravel a ton...other countries told you.....but you still stand by you close minded idea that we don't deserve a universal health care system, free education and so forth.

Why we score poorly on life expectancy, and disaese amonst mostly developed countries? why have millions uninsured if we are the greatest country in the world?

But now i'm sure you will hail trump for sending those checks and bailing the whole capitalism, because you just follow no matter what and clap.
Again, what our federal government is supposed to provide the people is in the US Constitution. Healthcare and college is not in there. Correct, I do not vote for my best self-interest. I vote for what's best for the country overall. Much of the reason we do have problems is because people did vote for themselves instead of the country.

Life expectancy is not really related to healthcare so much. After all, most of the people who die naturally are on Medicare.
 

Bo Didleysquat

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Italy is facing serious challenges, with demand for critical care far outstripping supply. Health officials there are having to make very difficult decisions about who to treat – in the knowledge that deciding not to treat will very likely lead to death.

On Thursday the Italian College of Anesthesia, Analgesia, Resuscitation and Intensive Care, issued guidelines advising doctors how to deploy scarce resources when the need for them is outstripped by the demand of critically ill patients. The guidelines state that priority should be given to those who have, first, “greater likelihood of survival and, second, who have more potential years of life”.

As a result, patients with underlying conditions and elderly patients, who are deemed to stand less chance of surviving the virus, may not be treated in favour of healthier and/or younger people who have more chance of recovery.

In the coming months we may face a similar situation in the UK where we do not have the resources necessary to treat all people who will catch Covid-19. So how do healthcare professionals decide who to treat?


Coronavirus may force UK doctors to decide who they’ll save | Jonathan Ives

Very frightening indeed. If you have chronic illnesses or are elderly, what would be going through your mind if you were diagnosed with COVID 19 in Italy, and possibly the entire UK down the road? As a person with both problems, I can tell you I would be scared Shtless.

But I don't have to worry about that, because I'm in the United States, and in the United States, we don't have socialized medical care. If I would unfortunately get the virus, I know I'll be well cared for. If my 88 year old father would get the virus, I know he will be well cared for. Same for my 86 year old mother.
Our wave has not crested yet. We ration healthcare all day, ever day.

More deaths
Various studies have looked at whether uninsured people have a higher risk of death. The most cited was published by the American Journal of Public Health in 2009 and found that nearly 45,000 Americans die each year as a direct result of being uninsured.
Will losing health insurance mean more US deaths? Experts say yes

Get your head around this:
WHO considers 'airborne precautions' for medical staff after study shows coronavirus can survive in air


Still trying to figure out why capitalists outsource jobs and production/manufacturing capability/capacity to communists and then fecklessly attempt to claim they're anti-commie capitalists.
 

Bo Didleysquat

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It is broke....
Where we rank in education? Health? Life expectancy ? Safety net? Crimes ? Obesity ?
Is not about the military and the big toys....I constantly travel the world and the US is not the greatest country....the only measure to decide if country is great or not is how people are treated and live.
You cheering for a savage capitalism that I'm sure hurts your personally on daily basis like millions of middle class and low class americans..but they brainwashed to beleive that you are living of lives. And no one compares.
I cant help you, you must old and your brain is not open an update.
I'm not old, but older. Before you even knew this country existed (or maybe even born) I was living in it. You see, looking at your list above, you are stating we are not the greatest because government didn't totally address those issues. But guess what? They did! Government is involved in our education, our health, our life expectancy, multiple safety nets, and obesity is the one personal decision, however Hussein's wife tried to address that in total failure. DumBama forced restaurants to list calorie count because only government (in the mind of a liberal) is smart enough to tell you that a Big Mac combo is fattening!

If the US is not the greatest country, WTF are you doing living here? Why are millions trying to penetrate our borders to come here? Why do the legal immigrants spend thousands of dollars wait for many years, just be be accepted and be a citizen of this country? Why did thousands die trying to get here illegally?

Since you're an immigrant yourself, tell me what other country is better, and why you don't move there instead? And don't say it's because of the money, because that would highlight one of the greatest assets of our country which is capitalism. It is capitalism why people want to come here; to be rewarded for extra hard work they were never rewarded with in their former country. It's capitalism that made us one of the most wealthiest, if not the wealthiest countries in the world.
People have been migrating since day one that voids your argument, why many wants to be here or there. People move where they feel they can do better. Doesnt always mean is the best place or decision.
Many counties have a way better quality of life than the US, hence that's why America is not the best country in the world. They might have the biggest army, but still lost many conflicts...doesnt have the best education, health system, lower crimes, drug abuse and so forth.

Isn't the government supposed to be by the people for the people ? Than let the majority decide how the government spends their money, instead trillions for useless wars, let's take care of the sick, the poor and mainly the dumbest uneducated millions in this great land. As an immigrant whose English is the 4th language I was shocked to find myself surrounded by natives who struggled with their own language, comes the finals i was even more shocked at how clueless they were in so many subjects and yet education is paid for by loans that they will have to pay off for years, while most of the world kids dont have to pay a penny to get higher education.

You are doomed, millenials have to wait a bit till your generation hits the door before things get better at all or maybe it will be too late.
The US spends more per capita on primary education than any other country in the world. What more do you want from us? A terrible disease hit our country years ago, it was called liberalism.

The movement dictated that men were only sperm donors. Women can do just fine raising children without a father. Who needs them around? While the movement weakened, the message didn't. In some black communities today(where education and crime are a real problem) the out of wedlock birth rate is in the 90% range. Women find themselves helpless against the aggression of growing children, particularly males when they near or hit their teen years.

I see it all the time where I live; kids out well past dark on a school night, sometimes as late as 11:00 at night. A former neighbor of mine had a basketball hoop setup in his yard. The kids came over after school, and didn't leave until I yelled at them to cut it out for the night which was past 10:00. This was every day and night weather providing.

So why were these children not home doing homework, getting to bed early so they can have a productive school day? Where are the parent(s) of all these kids in the yard?

If the parent is too tired to raise their children because of their job, then the best education in the world isn't going to help them. Education doesn't start when that kid jumps on the yellow bus, and ends when he or she jumps off that bus. Parents must be very involved for education to work. So don't blame the government, blame the individuals.
I agree with you on most of what you said....but you are still brainwashed to vote and think against your own interest. I've told you, i've lived here 20 years and have family , friends all over the world, and i ttravel a ton...other countries told you.....but you still stand by you close minded idea that we don't deserve a universal health care system, free education and so forth.

Why we score poorly on life expectancy, and disaese amonst mostly developed countries? why have millions uninsured if we are the greatest country in the world?

But now i'm sure you will hail trump for sending those checks and bailing the whole capitalism, because you just follow no matter what and clap.
Again, what our federal government is supposed to provide the people is in the US Constitution. Healthcare and college is not in there. Correct, I do not vote for my best self-interest. I vote for what's best for the country overall. Much of the reason we do have problems is because people did vote for themselves instead of the country.

Life expectancy is not really related to healthcare so much. After all, most of the people who die naturally are on Medicare.
We don't give a shit about the constitution when it comes to endless bogus illegal wars.

Life expectancy is not really related to healthcare so much?

Is there a correlation between Life Expectancy and Universal Healthcare
 
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Ray From Cleveland

Ray From Cleveland

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I'm not old, but older. Before you even knew this country existed (or maybe even born) I was living in it. You see, looking at your list above, you are stating we are not the greatest because government didn't totally address those issues. But guess what? They did! Government is involved in our education, our health, our life expectancy, multiple safety nets, and obesity is the one personal decision, however Hussein's wife tried to address that in total failure. DumBama forced restaurants to list calorie count because only government (in the mind of a liberal) is smart enough to tell you that a Big Mac combo is fattening!

If the US is not the greatest country, WTF are you doing living here? Why are millions trying to penetrate our borders to come here? Why do the legal immigrants spend thousands of dollars wait for many years, just be be accepted and be a citizen of this country? Why did thousands die trying to get here illegally?

Since you're an immigrant yourself, tell me what other country is better, and why you don't move there instead? And don't say it's because of the money, because that would highlight one of the greatest assets of our country which is capitalism. It is capitalism why people want to come here; to be rewarded for extra hard work they were never rewarded with in their former country. It's capitalism that made us one of the most wealthiest, if not the wealthiest countries in the world.
People have been migrating since day one that voids your argument, why many wants to be here or there. People move where they feel they can do better. Doesnt always mean is the best place or decision.
Many counties have a way better quality of life than the US, hence that's why America is not the best country in the world. They might have the biggest army, but still lost many conflicts...doesnt have the best education, health system, lower crimes, drug abuse and so forth.

Isn't the government supposed to be by the people for the people ? Than let the majority decide how the government spends their money, instead trillions for useless wars, let's take care of the sick, the poor and mainly the dumbest uneducated millions in this great land. As an immigrant whose English is the 4th language I was shocked to find myself surrounded by natives who struggled with their own language, comes the finals i was even more shocked at how clueless they were in so many subjects and yet education is paid for by loans that they will have to pay off for years, while most of the world kids dont have to pay a penny to get higher education.

You are doomed, millenials have to wait a bit till your generation hits the door before things get better at all or maybe it will be too late.
The US spends more per capita on primary education than any other country in the world. What more do you want from us? A terrible disease hit our country years ago, it was called liberalism.

The movement dictated that men were only sperm donors. Women can do just fine raising children without a father. Who needs them around? While the movement weakened, the message didn't. In some black communities today(where education and crime are a real problem) the out of wedlock birth rate is in the 90% range. Women find themselves helpless against the aggression of growing children, particularly males when they near or hit their teen years.

I see it all the time where I live; kids out well past dark on a school night, sometimes as late as 11:00 at night. A former neighbor of mine had a basketball hoop setup in his yard. The kids came over after school, and didn't leave until I yelled at them to cut it out for the night which was past 10:00. This was every day and night weather providing.

So why were these children not home doing homework, getting to bed early so they can have a productive school day? Where are the parent(s) of all these kids in the yard?

If the parent is too tired to raise their children because of their job, then the best education in the world isn't going to help them. Education doesn't start when that kid jumps on the yellow bus, and ends when he or she jumps off that bus. Parents must be very involved for education to work. So don't blame the government, blame the individuals.
I agree with you on most of what you said....but you are still brainwashed to vote and think against your own interest. I've told you, i've lived here 20 years and have family , friends all over the world, and i ttravel a ton...other countries told you.....but you still stand by you close minded idea that we don't deserve a universal health care system, free education and so forth.

Why we score poorly on life expectancy, and disaese amonst mostly developed countries? why have millions uninsured if we are the greatest country in the world?

But now i'm sure you will hail trump for sending those checks and bailing the whole capitalism, because you just follow no matter what and clap.
Again, what our federal government is supposed to provide the people is in the US Constitution. Healthcare and college is not in there. Correct, I do not vote for my best self-interest. I vote for what's best for the country overall. Much of the reason we do have problems is because people did vote for themselves instead of the country.

Life expectancy is not really related to healthcare so much. After all, most of the people who die naturally are on Medicare.
We don't give a shit about the constitution when it comes to endless bogus illegal wars.

Life expectancy is not really related to healthcare so much?

Is there a correlation between Life Expectancy and Universal Healthcare
Not when you consider all the factors that create the life expectancy figure. We have a lot of younger people die in this country, and not because of healthcare. Nearly 100,000 Americans a year die from drug overdoses. Almost another 40 thousand in vehicle deaths. Then there is all the violence and death related to gangs that sell those drugs. We are the fattest country in the world, and many of our people do not get enough exercise. To get the education for a career, those women generally start a family much later in life. The longer you wait for child birth, the more likely you will lose the baby, or it will have serious birth defects causing it's death. Just so many other factors besides healthcare.
 

Bo Didleysquat

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People have been migrating since day one that voids your argument, why many wants to be here or there. People move where they feel they can do better. Doesnt always mean is the best place or decision.
Many counties have a way better quality of life than the US, hence that's why America is not the best country in the world. They might have the biggest army, but still lost many conflicts...doesnt have the best education, health system, lower crimes, drug abuse and so forth.

Isn't the government supposed to be by the people for the people ? Than let the majority decide how the government spends their money, instead trillions for useless wars, let's take care of the sick, the poor and mainly the dumbest uneducated millions in this great land. As an immigrant whose English is the 4th language I was shocked to find myself surrounded by natives who struggled with their own language, comes the finals i was even more shocked at how clueless they were in so many subjects and yet education is paid for by loans that they will have to pay off for years, while most of the world kids dont have to pay a penny to get higher education.

You are doomed, millenials have to wait a bit till your generation hits the door before things get better at all or maybe it will be too late.
The US spends more per capita on primary education than any other country in the world. What more do you want from us? A terrible disease hit our country years ago, it was called liberalism.

The movement dictated that men were only sperm donors. Women can do just fine raising children without a father. Who needs them around? While the movement weakened, the message didn't. In some black communities today(where education and crime are a real problem) the out of wedlock birth rate is in the 90% range. Women find themselves helpless against the aggression of growing children, particularly males when they near or hit their teen years.

I see it all the time where I live; kids out well past dark on a school night, sometimes as late as 11:00 at night. A former neighbor of mine had a basketball hoop setup in his yard. The kids came over after school, and didn't leave until I yelled at them to cut it out for the night which was past 10:00. This was every day and night weather providing.

So why were these children not home doing homework, getting to bed early so they can have a productive school day? Where are the parent(s) of all these kids in the yard?

If the parent is too tired to raise their children because of their job, then the best education in the world isn't going to help them. Education doesn't start when that kid jumps on the yellow bus, and ends when he or she jumps off that bus. Parents must be very involved for education to work. So don't blame the government, blame the individuals.
I agree with you on most of what you said....but you are still brainwashed to vote and think against your own interest. I've told you, i've lived here 20 years and have family , friends all over the world, and i ttravel a ton...other countries told you.....but you still stand by you close minded idea that we don't deserve a universal health care system, free education and so forth.

Why we score poorly on life expectancy, and disaese amonst mostly developed countries? why have millions uninsured if we are the greatest country in the world?

But now i'm sure you will hail trump for sending those checks and bailing the whole capitalism, because you just follow no matter what and clap.
Again, what our federal government is supposed to provide the people is in the US Constitution. Healthcare and college is not in there. Correct, I do not vote for my best self-interest. I vote for what's best for the country overall. Much of the reason we do have problems is because people did vote for themselves instead of the country.

Life expectancy is not really related to healthcare so much. After all, most of the people who die naturally are on Medicare.
We don't give a shit about the constitution when it comes to endless bogus illegal wars.

Life expectancy is not really related to healthcare so much?

Is there a correlation between Life Expectancy and Universal Healthcare
Not when you consider all the factors that create the life expectancy figure. We have a lot of younger people die in this country, and not because of healthcare. Nearly 100,000 Americans a year die from drug overdoses. Almost another 40 thousand in vehicle deaths. Then there is all the violence and death related to gangs that sell those drugs. We are the fattest country in the world, and many of our people do not get enough exercise. To get the education for a career, those women generally start a family much later in life. The longer you wait for child birth, the more likely you will lose the baby, or it will have serious birth defects causing it's death. Just so many other factors besides healthcare.
Rationalize all ya need to Rayray, the inadequacies of our system are laid bare.
 

forkup

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And for the umpteenth time why do you always revert to stating a premise and than never really even flesh out causality? Italy has more hospital beds per capita than the for-profit US. It has more ventilators per capita than the for-profit US. So how do you get from there, to calling being overwhelmed by a virus a failure of Socialized healthcare? Because they're being overwhelmed now? What again makes you believe that the US won't go the same way when they reach the same point in the infection cycle? Your beds are bigger? You can all of a sudden produce tens of thousands of ventilators? Ray, you aren't even capable of producing tests in sufficient quantities.

I understand this is a political forum, I understand that this crisis will be used by both sides to try to prove the validity of their own ideology. What I don't get is why someone would persist in pursuing a line of logic that is completely unsustainable if questioned? I appreciate your willingness to talk to me. At some point, though you should be able to recognize that what you are saying is intellectually unsustainable right? You don't challenge the facts when they are laid out before you, yet you seemingly always plow on like it hasn't been said at all.
My point is simply this: My post was to prove to the left that socialized medical care is not the savior for our society. We have problems, and socialized medical care has problems. Any medical care system you point to, I can do research and find out the problems with it.

If it's not lack of funding, it's cutting down on quality. If it's not long waiting times, it's using medication that is less than the most effective. Our border countries with socialized medical care has problems too.

We would never handle a huge outbreak like Italy is, which is to write-off people because of their age or illnesses. In fact, we would do the exact opposite. We would be giving more care to those people. Assuming you didn't read some of my other posts, we have medical equipment rental companies all over the country. I worked in the industry for a decade. We rented oxygen concentrators, oxygen tanks and gauges, liquid oxygen devices, yes, ventilators, and plenty of hospital beds. If a facility is short on their own equipment, they call rental companies for assistance. We'll be fine with our system.

Our ability to do testing is advancing as we speak. Where I live in the Cleveland area, hospitals are having drive-thru testing sites. You don't have to worry about catching anything by entering a hospital or clinic. You drive up, they take your blood, and you roll your window back up and go home.

So we are doing just fine with our medical care system, and even better than many other places.

Do you think the US is the only place that rents out medical equipment? I think you have absolutely not a clue how many the US shortly will likely need.

As to your statement that the US wouldn't do triage that way, I can only state that you are mistaken. If 2 people need a ventilator and only 1 is available and the choices are a 25 year old female and an 80 year old male that ventilator goes to the younger one.Crisis Standards of Care In this point 1,3,4 are applicable and they all say the same thing. You prioritize those that have the least amount of extra risk factors, in which age is a factor. You prioritize those that are at least risk for complications, especially when there's a recourse shortage. You prioritize those who are most likely to recover, again favors younger people.
That is where the theory is flawed. Younger healthier people are likely to recover than the elderly and sickly. Those are the people that need the most assistance. If it would ever come down to that (and I never seen that happen in my life) then it would have to go to first come--first serve. We are not a nation that decides who lives and who dies when in need of help. That's what God does.
It's the procedure doctors use. And no younger healthier people with a low blood oxygen level are in just as much danger as an older person in the same condition. Air doesn't care how old you are. And without it, everybody dies.

You act like these rules are nation-specific. They are medical procedures taught in Universities and carried out as far as I can tell universally.
Perhaps in your country, but not here. Doctors can't make decisions like that. If push came to shove, it would be first come first serve. Remember our system may be different than yours where ours has a liability factor. In other words, if somebody's brother or sister died because they were placed at the back of the line due to their preexisting medical conditions, you can bet your last dollar they will be hauled to court and sued just as the hospital would, especially if different races were involved.

We have plenty of oxygen devices here, including oxygen concentrators that make oxygen...... well, they don't really make oxygen itself, they take out the other properties of air leaving you with mostly oxygen, so it works the same. Just plug it into a wall and away you go.
What you are saying is that you believe the US would ignore the rules of triage. Rules that exist to maximize the number of people who will be saved in times of recourse scarceness because of liability issues? That is not a good thing you know.

I know what oxygen concentrators are. My grandmother had one at home when she needed oxygen 24/7. She got that plus other items including daily nursing and physical therapy so she could stay in her house. For a few bucks a month. And you believe you have enough oxygen devices. This while Italy, who has more per capita doesn't have enough. Math works differently in the US?
 

forkup

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America Needs to Stop Subsidizing Europe and Canada’s Prescription Drugs | RealClearPolitics

The Europeans and Canadians (as well as the rest of the world) are free-riding on the back of American medical innovators. European countries and Canada – our trading allies – impede access and set artificially low prices for prescription medicines. If U.S. companies refuse to acquiesce on prices, these foreign governments threaten to steal their patents by using compulsory licensing. It’s that simple: Europe and Canada refuse to pay their fair share forcing Americans to pay more.

Americans pay the highest prices for prescription drugs in the world. In 2016, U.S. spending on pharmaceuticals totaled more than $450 billion – a rate that’s two to six times higher than the world average.

The reason boils down to “compulsory licensing.” As the World Trade Organization explains, this is when “a government allows someone else to produce a patented product or process without the consent of the patent owner or plans to use the patent-protected invention itself.” These foreign governments put U.S. biopharmaceutical companies in a proverbial “gun-to-the-head” situation – i.e., sell us the drugs at the bogus price we demand, or don’t and we’ll just take it.
Give me one, just one single example of a drug that the EU put on the market without respecting patent rights? Go ahead. What does happen is that once the patent has expired doctors are encouraged to favor a generic version of that medicine if avail.
 
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Ray From Cleveland

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My point is simply this: My post was to prove to the left that socialized medical care is not the savior for our society. We have problems, and socialized medical care has problems. Any medical care system you point to, I can do research and find out the problems with it.

If it's not lack of funding, it's cutting down on quality. If it's not long waiting times, it's using medication that is less than the most effective. Our border countries with socialized medical care has problems too.

We would never handle a huge outbreak like Italy is, which is to write-off people because of their age or illnesses. In fact, we would do the exact opposite. We would be giving more care to those people. Assuming you didn't read some of my other posts, we have medical equipment rental companies all over the country. I worked in the industry for a decade. We rented oxygen concentrators, oxygen tanks and gauges, liquid oxygen devices, yes, ventilators, and plenty of hospital beds. If a facility is short on their own equipment, they call rental companies for assistance. We'll be fine with our system.

Our ability to do testing is advancing as we speak. Where I live in the Cleveland area, hospitals are having drive-thru testing sites. You don't have to worry about catching anything by entering a hospital or clinic. You drive up, they take your blood, and you roll your window back up and go home.

So we are doing just fine with our medical care system, and even better than many other places.

Do you think the US is the only place that rents out medical equipment? I think you have absolutely not a clue how many the US shortly will likely need.

As to your statement that the US wouldn't do triage that way, I can only state that you are mistaken. If 2 people need a ventilator and only 1 is available and the choices are a 25 year old female and an 80 year old male that ventilator goes to the younger one.Crisis Standards of Care In this point 1,3,4 are applicable and they all say the same thing. You prioritize those that have the least amount of extra risk factors, in which age is a factor. You prioritize those that are at least risk for complications, especially when there's a recourse shortage. You prioritize those who are most likely to recover, again favors younger people.
That is where the theory is flawed. Younger healthier people are likely to recover than the elderly and sickly. Those are the people that need the most assistance. If it would ever come down to that (and I never seen that happen in my life) then it would have to go to first come--first serve. We are not a nation that decides who lives and who dies when in need of help. That's what God does.
It's the procedure doctors use. And no younger healthier people with a low blood oxygen level are in just as much danger as an older person in the same condition. Air doesn't care how old you are. And without it, everybody dies.

You act like these rules are nation-specific. They are medical procedures taught in Universities and carried out as far as I can tell universally.
Perhaps in your country, but not here. Doctors can't make decisions like that. If push came to shove, it would be first come first serve. Remember our system may be different than yours where ours has a liability factor. In other words, if somebody's brother or sister died because they were placed at the back of the line due to their preexisting medical conditions, you can bet your last dollar they will be hauled to court and sued just as the hospital would, especially if different races were involved.

We have plenty of oxygen devices here, including oxygen concentrators that make oxygen...... well, they don't really make oxygen itself, they take out the other properties of air leaving you with mostly oxygen, so it works the same. Just plug it into a wall and away you go.
What you are saying is that you believe the US would ignore the rules of triage. Rules that exist to maximize the number of people who will be saved in times of recourse scarceness because of liability issues? That is not a good thing you know.

I know what oxygen concentrators are. My grandmother had one at home when she needed oxygen 24/7. She got that plus other items including daily nursing and physical therapy so she could stay in her house. For a few bucks a month. And you believe you have enough oxygen devices. This while Italy, who has more per capita doesn't have enough. Math works differently in the US?
Yes, I do believe that. Nearly every medical supply place carries oxygen in one form or another, and there are thousands of those places across the country. It wouldn't be a problem.

Rules of Triage? Where is that written for the world? Every country makes their own priorities, not the WHO or anybody else. I'm 60 years old with several major medical conditions outlined in the virus jeopardy category. Yes, if I am in a hospital being treated for something like that, I want to be treated because I was there before the next person came into the door. If it were my 88 year old father, I would want his life to be saved as well.
 

Hutch Starskey

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Italy is facing serious challenges, with demand for critical care far outstripping supply. Health officials there are having to make very difficult decisions about who to treat – in the knowledge that deciding not to treat will very likely lead to death.

On Thursday the Italian College of Anesthesia, Analgesia, Resuscitation and Intensive Care, issued guidelines advising doctors how to deploy scarce resources when the need for them is outstripped by the demand of critically ill patients. The guidelines state that priority should be given to those who have, first, “greater likelihood of survival and, second, who have more potential years of life”.

As a result, patients with underlying conditions and elderly patients, who are deemed to stand less chance of surviving the virus, may not be treated in favour of healthier and/or younger people who have more chance of recovery.

In the coming months we may face a similar situation in the UK where we do not have the resources necessary to treat all people who will catch Covid-19. So how do healthcare professionals decide who to treat?


Coronavirus may force UK doctors to decide who they’ll save | Jonathan Ives

Very frightening indeed. If you have chronic illnesses or are elderly, what would be going through your mind if you were diagnosed with COVID 19 in Italy, and possibly the entire UK down the road? As a person with both problems, I can tell you I would be scared Shtless.

But I don't have to worry about that, because I'm in the United States, and in the United States, we don't have socialized medical care. If I would unfortunately get the virus, I know I'll be well cared for. If my 88 year old father would get the virus, I know he will be well cared for. Same for my 86 year old mother.
Italy's dilemma is not a result of socialized medicine, dope. It's a result of a rate of infection that was faster than their system could accommodate.

n_hayes_curve_200309_1920x1080.focal-760x428.jpg

Have you not watched even one health expert explain this?
Don't believe it can't or won't happen here as well. Italy actually has more capacity per capita than we do. That's the whole point of the social distancing. To slow the rate of infection so as not to overwhelm the healthcare system.

Stop being retarded and start taking this seriously.
 

Hutch Starskey

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List of OECD countries by hospital beds - Wikipedia
The US doesn't exactly lead the charts here. So explain to me what the excuse is for your for-profit system?
Only amateurs use Wikipedia. It's an unsecure site and can be edited by anyone
Health Care Resources
Original source cited by Wikipedia. Stats are still the same. So why does the US compare so badly against most countries that have socialized medicine?
Because their main factor is we are not socialized, and that means only people with insurance or government plans are actually covered. We do treat all our citizens regardless.
I'm sorry to tell you this but I know for a fact you are lying by omission here. My wife is American and I know for a fact that the level of treatment someone receives differs significantly from person to person. And that beyond basic care, treatment is unavailable to significant portions of your populace by the simple means of it being unaffordable.
Nobody is dying in the street with our system. We have a law that everybody is entitled to emergency care regardless of ability to pay. Furthermore, hospitals and clinics often have charity accounts for those evil rich white people to contribute funds, so that people who have no resources can get care too.
You are ignorant AF, dude.
Our capacity to adequately treat the infected is not unlimited. No one's is.
 

Issa

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It is broke....
Where we rank in education? Health? Life expectancy ? Safety net? Crimes ? Obesity ?
Is not about the military and the big toys....I constantly travel the world and the US is not the greatest country....the only measure to decide if country is great or not is how people are treated and live.
You cheering for a savage capitalism that I'm sure hurts your personally on daily basis like millions of middle class and low class americans..but they brainwashed to beleive that you are living of lives. And no one compares.
I cant help you, you must old and your brain is not open an update.
I'm not old, but older. Before you even knew this country existed (or maybe even born) I was living in it. You see, looking at your list above, you are stating we are not the greatest because government didn't totally address those issues. But guess what? They did! Government is involved in our education, our health, our life expectancy, multiple safety nets, and obesity is the one personal decision, however Hussein's wife tried to address that in total failure. DumBama forced restaurants to list calorie count because only government (in the mind of a liberal) is smart enough to tell you that a Big Mac combo is fattening!

If the US is not the greatest country, WTF are you doing living here? Why are millions trying to penetrate our borders to come here? Why do the legal immigrants spend thousands of dollars wait for many years, just be be accepted and be a citizen of this country? Why did thousands die trying to get here illegally?

Since you're an immigrant yourself, tell me what other country is better, and why you don't move there instead? And don't say it's because of the money, because that would highlight one of the greatest assets of our country which is capitalism. It is capitalism why people want to come here; to be rewarded for extra hard work they were never rewarded with in their former country. It's capitalism that made us one of the most wealthiest, if not the wealthiest countries in the world.
People have been migrating since day one that voids your argument, why many wants to be here or there. People move where they feel they can do better. Doesnt always mean is the best place or decision.
Many counties have a way better quality of life than the US, hence that's why America is not the best country in the world. They might have the biggest army, but still lost many conflicts...doesnt have the best education, health system, lower crimes, drug abuse and so forth.

Isn't the government supposed to be by the people for the people ? Than let the majority decide how the government spends their money, instead trillions for useless wars, let's take care of the sick, the poor and mainly the dumbest uneducated millions in this great land. As an immigrant whose English is the 4th language I was shocked to find myself surrounded by natives who struggled with their own language, comes the finals i was even more shocked at how clueless they were in so many subjects and yet education is paid for by loans that they will have to pay off for years, while most of the world kids dont have to pay a penny to get higher education.

You are doomed, millenials have to wait a bit till your generation hits the door before things get better at all or maybe it will be too late.
The US spends more per capita on primary education than any other country in the world. What more do you want from us? A terrible disease hit our country years ago, it was called liberalism.

The movement dictated that men were only sperm donors. Women can do just fine raising children without a father. Who needs them around? While the movement weakened, the message didn't. In some black communities today(where education and crime are a real problem) the out of wedlock birth rate is in the 90% range. Women find themselves helpless against the aggression of growing children, particularly males when they near or hit their teen years.

I see it all the time where I live; kids out well past dark on a school night, sometimes as late as 11:00 at night. A former neighbor of mine had a basketball hoop setup in his yard. The kids came over after school, and didn't leave until I yelled at them to cut it out for the night which was past 10:00. This was every day and night weather providing.

So why were these children not home doing homework, getting to bed early so they can have a productive school day? Where are the parent(s) of all these kids in the yard?

If the parent is too tired to raise their children because of their job, then the best education in the world isn't going to help them. Education doesn't start when that kid jumps on the yellow bus, and ends when he or she jumps off that bus. Parents must be very involved for education to work. So don't blame the government, blame the individuals.
I agree with you on most of what you said....but you are still brainwashed to vote and think against your own interest. I've told you, i've lived here 20 years and have family , friends all over the world, and i ttravel a ton...other countries told you.....but you still stand by you close minded idea that we don't deserve a universal health care system, free education and so forth.

Why we score poorly on life expectancy, and disaese amonst mostly developed countries? why have millions uninsured if we are the greatest country in the world?

But now i'm sure you will hail trump for sending those checks and bailing the whole capitalism, because you just follow no matter what and clap.
Again, what our federal government is supposed to provide the people is in the US Constitution. Healthcare and college is not in there. Correct, I do not vote for my best self-interest. I vote for what's best for the country overall. Much of the reason we do have problems is because people did vote for themselves instead of the country.

Life expectancy is not really related to healthcare so much. After all, most of the people who die naturally are on Medicare.
Consitituion again is not perfect is not God's words.
I have proved to you many times that the US ranks behind most of the developed world in many sectors that fall under the human index that shows the quality of life...and you run back to the constitution...dude we have millions of americans that cross the border to mexico to get medical care...europeans walk to the nearest hospital getting it done and never see a receipt....why you against that ? And not giving trillions to wars and other useless crap.
 

Issa

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People have been migrating since day one that voids your argument, why many wants to be here or there. People move where they feel they can do better. Doesnt always mean is the best place or decision.
Many counties have a way better quality of life than the US, hence that's why America is not the best country in the world. They might have the biggest army, but still lost many conflicts...doesnt have the best education, health system, lower crimes, drug abuse and so forth.

Isn't the government supposed to be by the people for the people ? Than let the majority decide how the government spends their money, instead trillions for useless wars, let's take care of the sick, the poor and mainly the dumbest uneducated millions in this great land. As an immigrant whose English is the 4th language I was shocked to find myself surrounded by natives who struggled with their own language, comes the finals i was even more shocked at how clueless they were in so many subjects and yet education is paid for by loans that they will have to pay off for years, while most of the world kids dont have to pay a penny to get higher education.

You are doomed, millenials have to wait a bit till your generation hits the door before things get better at all or maybe it will be too late.
The US spends more per capita on primary education than any other country in the world. What more do you want from us? A terrible disease hit our country years ago, it was called liberalism.

The movement dictated that men were only sperm donors. Women can do just fine raising children without a father. Who needs them around? While the movement weakened, the message didn't. In some black communities today(where education and crime are a real problem) the out of wedlock birth rate is in the 90% range. Women find themselves helpless against the aggression of growing children, particularly males when they near or hit their teen years.

I see it all the time where I live; kids out well past dark on a school night, sometimes as late as 11:00 at night. A former neighbor of mine had a basketball hoop setup in his yard. The kids came over after school, and didn't leave until I yelled at them to cut it out for the night which was past 10:00. This was every day and night weather providing.

So why were these children not home doing homework, getting to bed early so they can have a productive school day? Where are the parent(s) of all these kids in the yard?

If the parent is too tired to raise their children because of their job, then the best education in the world isn't going to help them. Education doesn't start when that kid jumps on the yellow bus, and ends when he or she jumps off that bus. Parents must be very involved for education to work. So don't blame the government, blame the individuals.
I agree with you on most of what you said....but you are still brainwashed to vote and think against your own interest. I've told you, i've lived here 20 years and have family , friends all over the world, and i ttravel a ton...other countries told you.....but you still stand by you close minded idea that we don't deserve a universal health care system, free education and so forth.

Why we score poorly on life expectancy, and disaese amonst mostly developed countries? why have millions uninsured if we are the greatest country in the world?

But now i'm sure you will hail trump for sending those checks and bailing the whole capitalism, because you just follow no matter what and clap.
Again, what our federal government is supposed to provide the people is in the US Constitution. Healthcare and college is not in there. Correct, I do not vote for my best self-interest. I vote for what's best for the country overall. Much of the reason we do have problems is because people did vote for themselves instead of the country.

Life expectancy is not really related to healthcare so much. After all, most of the people who die naturally are on Medicare.
We don't give a shit about the constitution when it comes to endless bogus illegal wars.

Life expectancy is not really related to healthcare so much?

Is there a correlation between Life Expectancy and Universal Healthcare
Not when you consider all the factors that create the life expectancy figure. We have a lot of younger people die in this country, and not because of healthcare. Nearly 100,000 Americans a year die from drug overdoses. Almost another 40 thousand in vehicle deaths. Then there is all the violence and death related to gangs that sell those drugs. We are the fattest country in the world, and many of our people do not get enough exercise. To get the education for a career, those women generally start a family much later in life. The longer you wait for child birth, the more likely you will lose the baby, or it will have serious birth defects causing it's death. Just so many other factors besides healthcare.
Sounds like the worst country to me after all the horrible things you listed. What you doing about that ? Run back to constitution and buy more ammunition ? Or ie business as usual.
 

BS Filter

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I'm not old, but older. Before you even knew this country existed (or maybe even born) I was living in it. You see, looking at your list above, you are stating we are not the greatest because government didn't totally address those issues. But guess what? They did! Government is involved in our education, our health, our life expectancy, multiple safety nets, and obesity is the one personal decision, however Hussein's wife tried to address that in total failure. DumBama forced restaurants to list calorie count because only government (in the mind of a liberal) is smart enough to tell you that a Big Mac combo is fattening!

If the US is not the greatest country, WTF are you doing living here? Why are millions trying to penetrate our borders to come here? Why do the legal immigrants spend thousands of dollars wait for many years, just be be accepted and be a citizen of this country? Why did thousands die trying to get here illegally?

Since you're an immigrant yourself, tell me what other country is better, and why you don't move there instead? And don't say it's because of the money, because that would highlight one of the greatest assets of our country which is capitalism. It is capitalism why people want to come here; to be rewarded for extra hard work they were never rewarded with in their former country. It's capitalism that made us one of the most wealthiest, if not the wealthiest countries in the world.
People have been migrating since day one that voids your argument, why many wants to be here or there. People move where they feel they can do better. Doesnt always mean is the best place or decision.
Many counties have a way better quality of life than the US, hence that's why America is not the best country in the world. They might have the biggest army, but still lost many conflicts...doesnt have the best education, health system, lower crimes, drug abuse and so forth.

Isn't the government supposed to be by the people for the people ? Than let the majority decide how the government spends their money, instead trillions for useless wars, let's take care of the sick, the poor and mainly the dumbest uneducated millions in this great land. As an immigrant whose English is the 4th language I was shocked to find myself surrounded by natives who struggled with their own language, comes the finals i was even more shocked at how clueless they were in so many subjects and yet education is paid for by loans that they will have to pay off for years, while most of the world kids dont have to pay a penny to get higher education.

You are doomed, millenials have to wait a bit till your generation hits the door before things get better at all or maybe it will be too late.
The US spends more per capita on primary education than any other country in the world. What more do you want from us? A terrible disease hit our country years ago, it was called liberalism.

The movement dictated that men were only sperm donors. Women can do just fine raising children without a father. Who needs them around? While the movement weakened, the message didn't. In some black communities today(where education and crime are a real problem) the out of wedlock birth rate is in the 90% range. Women find themselves helpless against the aggression of growing children, particularly males when they near or hit their teen years.

I see it all the time where I live; kids out well past dark on a school night, sometimes as late as 11:00 at night. A former neighbor of mine had a basketball hoop setup in his yard. The kids came over after school, and didn't leave until I yelled at them to cut it out for the night which was past 10:00. This was every day and night weather providing.

So why were these children not home doing homework, getting to bed early so they can have a productive school day? Where are the parent(s) of all these kids in the yard?

If the parent is too tired to raise their children because of their job, then the best education in the world isn't going to help them. Education doesn't start when that kid jumps on the yellow bus, and ends when he or she jumps off that bus. Parents must be very involved for education to work. So don't blame the government, blame the individuals.
I agree with you on most of what you said....but you are still brainwashed to vote and think against your own interest. I've told you, i've lived here 20 years and have family , friends all over the world, and i ttravel a ton...other countries told you.....but you still stand by you close minded idea that we don't deserve a universal health care system, free education and so forth.

Why we score poorly on life expectancy, and disaese amonst mostly developed countries? why have millions uninsured if we are the greatest country in the world?

But now i'm sure you will hail trump for sending those checks and bailing the whole capitalism, because you just follow no matter what and clap.
Again, what our federal government is supposed to provide the people is in the US Constitution. Healthcare and college is not in there. Correct, I do not vote for my best self-interest. I vote for what's best for the country overall. Much of the reason we do have problems is because people did vote for themselves instead of the country.

Life expectancy is not really related to healthcare so much. After all, most of the people who die naturally are on Medicare.
Consitituion again is not perfect is not God's words.
I have proved to you many times that the US ranks behind most of the developed world in many sectors that fall under the human index that shows the quality of life...and you run back to the constitution...dude we have millions of americans that cross the border to mexico to get medical care...europeans walk to the nearest hospital getting it done and never see a receipt....why you against that ? And not giving trillions to wars and other useless crap.
Where do you live?
 

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Do you think the US is the only place that rents out medical equipment? I think you have absolutely not a clue how many the US shortly will likely need.

As to your statement that the US wouldn't do triage that way, I can only state that you are mistaken. If 2 people need a ventilator and only 1 is available and the choices are a 25 year old female and an 80 year old male that ventilator goes to the younger one.Crisis Standards of Care In this point 1,3,4 are applicable and they all say the same thing. You prioritize those that have the least amount of extra risk factors, in which age is a factor. You prioritize those that are at least risk for complications, especially when there's a recourse shortage. You prioritize those who are most likely to recover, again favors younger people.
That is where the theory is flawed. Younger healthier people are likely to recover than the elderly and sickly. Those are the people that need the most assistance. If it would ever come down to that (and I never seen that happen in my life) then it would have to go to first come--first serve. We are not a nation that decides who lives and who dies when in need of help. That's what God does.
It's the procedure doctors use. And no younger healthier people with a low blood oxygen level are in just as much danger as an older person in the same condition. Air doesn't care how old you are. And without it, everybody dies.

You act like these rules are nation-specific. They are medical procedures taught in Universities and carried out as far as I can tell universally.
Perhaps in your country, but not here. Doctors can't make decisions like that. If push came to shove, it would be first come first serve. Remember our system may be different than yours where ours has a liability factor. In other words, if somebody's brother or sister died because they were placed at the back of the line due to their preexisting medical conditions, you can bet your last dollar they will be hauled to court and sued just as the hospital would, especially if different races were involved.

We have plenty of oxygen devices here, including oxygen concentrators that make oxygen...... well, they don't really make oxygen itself, they take out the other properties of air leaving you with mostly oxygen, so it works the same. Just plug it into a wall and away you go.
What you are saying is that you believe the US would ignore the rules of triage. Rules that exist to maximize the number of people who will be saved in times of recourse scarceness because of liability issues? That is not a good thing you know.

I know what oxygen concentrators are. My grandmother had one at home when she needed oxygen 24/7. She got that plus other items including daily nursing and physical therapy so she could stay in her house. For a few bucks a month. And you believe you have enough oxygen devices. This while Italy, who has more per capita doesn't have enough. Math works differently in the US?
Yes, I do believe that. Nearly every medical supply place carries oxygen in one form or another, and there are thousands of those places across the country. It wouldn't be a problem.

Rules of Triage? Where is that written for the world? Every country makes their own priorities, not the WHO or anybody else. I'm 60 years old with several major medical conditions outlined in the virus jeopardy category. Yes, if I am in a hospital being treated for something like that, I want to be treated because I was there before the next person came into the door. If it were my 88 year old father, I would want his life to be saved as well.
Hospitals are also sounding the alarm on the lack of ventilators, or breathing machines, that are expected to be in high demand as the coronavirus spreads in the coming weeks and months. Trump invokes Defense Production Act as coronavirus response Seems hospitals don't share your belief. I can only hope that neither you nor your father catch it. But I'm very much suspecting that if you do catch it. And it is as bad as everybody suspects, you wanting to get treated will have little bearing on if you will get treated. Those triage rules as described are the best chance to save as many people as possible. At the end that's the purpose of healthcare. I do hope though that I'm wrong and it won't come to that.
 

Issa

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People have been migrating since day one that voids your argument, why many wants to be here or there. People move where they feel they can do better. Doesnt always mean is the best place or decision.
Many counties have a way better quality of life than the US, hence that's why America is not the best country in the world. They might have the biggest army, but still lost many conflicts...doesnt have the best education, health system, lower crimes, drug abuse and so forth.

Isn't the government supposed to be by the people for the people ? Than let the majority decide how the government spends their money, instead trillions for useless wars, let's take care of the sick, the poor and mainly the dumbest uneducated millions in this great land. As an immigrant whose English is the 4th language I was shocked to find myself surrounded by natives who struggled with their own language, comes the finals i was even more shocked at how clueless they were in so many subjects and yet education is paid for by loans that they will have to pay off for years, while most of the world kids dont have to pay a penny to get higher education.

You are doomed, millenials have to wait a bit till your generation hits the door before things get better at all or maybe it will be too late.
The US spends more per capita on primary education than any other country in the world. What more do you want from us? A terrible disease hit our country years ago, it was called liberalism.

The movement dictated that men were only sperm donors. Women can do just fine raising children without a father. Who needs them around? While the movement weakened, the message didn't. In some black communities today(where education and crime are a real problem) the out of wedlock birth rate is in the 90% range. Women find themselves helpless against the aggression of growing children, particularly males when they near or hit their teen years.

I see it all the time where I live; kids out well past dark on a school night, sometimes as late as 11:00 at night. A former neighbor of mine had a basketball hoop setup in his yard. The kids came over after school, and didn't leave until I yelled at them to cut it out for the night which was past 10:00. This was every day and night weather providing.

So why were these children not home doing homework, getting to bed early so they can have a productive school day? Where are the parent(s) of all these kids in the yard?

If the parent is too tired to raise their children because of their job, then the best education in the world isn't going to help them. Education doesn't start when that kid jumps on the yellow bus, and ends when he or she jumps off that bus. Parents must be very involved for education to work. So don't blame the government, blame the individuals.
I agree with you on most of what you said....but you are still brainwashed to vote and think against your own interest. I've told you, i've lived here 20 years and have family , friends all over the world, and i ttravel a ton...other countries told you.....but you still stand by you close minded idea that we don't deserve a universal health care system, free education and so forth.

Why we score poorly on life expectancy, and disaese amonst mostly developed countries? why have millions uninsured if we are the greatest country in the world?

But now i'm sure you will hail trump for sending those checks and bailing the whole capitalism, because you just follow no matter what and clap.
Again, what our federal government is supposed to provide the people is in the US Constitution. Healthcare and college is not in there. Correct, I do not vote for my best self-interest. I vote for what's best for the country overall. Much of the reason we do have problems is because people did vote for themselves instead of the country.

Life expectancy is not really related to healthcare so much. After all, most of the people who die naturally are on Medicare.
Consitituion again is not perfect is not God's words.
I have proved to you many times that the US ranks behind most of the developed world in many sectors that fall under the human index that shows the quality of life...and you run back to the constitution...dude we have millions of americans that cross the border to mexico to get medical care...europeans walk to the nearest hospital getting it done and never see a receipt....why you against that ? And not giving trillions to wars and other useless crap.
Where do you live?
Nomenof your business. We discuss topics not people here.
 

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