Socialized Healthcare. Italy May Not Treat The Elderly--COVID 19.

[Ray From Cleveland]

Italy is facing serious challenges, with demand for critical care far outstripping supply. Health officials there are having to make very difficult decisions about who to treat – in the knowledge that deciding not to treat will very likely lead to death.

On Thursday the Italian College of Anesthesia, Analgesia, Resuscitation and Intensive Care, issued guidelines advising doctors how to deploy scarce resources when the need for them is outstripped by the demand of critically ill patients. The guidelines state that priority should be given to those who have, first, “greater likelihood of survival and, second, who have more potential years of life”.

As a result, patients with underlying conditions and elderly patients, who are deemed to stand less chance of surviving the virus, may not be treated in favour of healthier and/or younger people who have more chance of recovery.

In the coming months we may face a similar situation in the UK where we do not have the resources necessary to treat all people who will catch Covid-19. So how do healthcare professionals decide who to treat?

Coronavirus may force UK doctors to decide who they’ll save | Jonathan Ives

Very frightening indeed. If you have chronic illnesses or are elderly, what would be going through your mind if you were diagnosed with COVID 19 in Italy, and possibly the entire UK down the road? As a person with both problems, I can tell you I would be scared Shtless.

But I don't have to worry about that, because I'm in the United States, and in the United States, we don't have socialized medical care. If I would unfortunately get the virus, I know I'll be well cared for. If my 88 year old father would get the virus, I know he will be well cared for. Same for my 86 year old mother.

 

[BS Filter]

The socialists here will deny it, but we all know that this is exactly what happens with socialist medicine.

 

[occupied]

It's called triage. We have the same thing here only they include ability to pay in the decision. There are only so many resources available in any medical system. After the limits are exceeded doctors and managers start making these terrible decisions of who to treat and who to pray for. Our own system is about to be stressed beyond their limits and people will die from lack of treatment. Deal with it.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The socialists here will deny it, but we all know that this is exactly what happens with socialist medicine.

I'm waiting for them to swoop down like a vulture. Correct, and then they will try to make some comparisons of their system to ours to support their stance that socialized healthcare is the greatest.

 

[daveman]

inb4 THATS NOT REAL SOCIALIZED MEDICINE PRESIDENT BERNIE WILL TAKE CARE OF EVERYBODY

 

[forkup]

Italy is facing serious challenges, with demand for critical care far outstripping supply. Health officials there are having to make very difficult decisions about who to treat – in the knowledge that deciding not to treat will very likely lead to death.

On Thursday the Italian College of Anesthesia, Analgesia, Resuscitation and Intensive Care, issued guidelines advising doctors how to deploy scarce resources when the need for them is outstripped by the demand of critically ill patients. The guidelines state that priority should be given to those who have, first, “greater likelihood of survival and, second, who have more potential years of life”.

As a result, patients with underlying conditions and elderly patients, who are deemed to stand less chance of surviving the virus, may not be treated in favour of healthier and/or younger people who have more chance of recovery.

In the coming months we may face a similar situation in the UK where we do not have the resources necessary to treat all people who will catch Covid-19. So how do healthcare professionals decide who to treat?

Coronavirus may force UK doctors to decide who they’ll save | Jonathan Ives

Very frightening indeed. If you have chronic illnesses or are elderly, what would be going through your mind if you were diagnosed with COVID 19 in Italy, and possibly the entire UK down the road? As a person with both problems, I can tell you I would be scared Shtless.

But I don't have to worry about that, because I'm in the United States, and in the United States, we don't have socialized medical care. If I would unfortunately get the virus, I know I'll be well cared for. If my 88 year old father would get the virus, I know he will be well cared for. Same for my 86 year old mother.

You think so? Simple math offers alarming answers about Covid-19, health care - STAT
Italy has more hospital beds than the US. Why do you think for-profit healthcare won't face the same problem as Italy's at the current rate of infection?

 

[forkup]

The socialists here will deny it, but we all know that this is exactly what happens with socialist medicine.

List of OECD countries by hospital beds - Wikipedia
The US doesn't exactly lead the charts here. So explain to me what the excuse is for your for-profit system?

 

[Kilroy2]

Its not a political thing, its a situation that is getting out of control.

medical triage is something that the medical profession does in cases of war , disasters, and in emergency rooms. Everyone does it.

it is akin to a boat sinking and the old story "woman and children first"

simply put if there is one needle and you have two people then who gets the needle and who decides this

its just a way to treat medical emergencies when they are overwhelmed
and it suppose to save the maximum number of lives

The discussion is out there and countries have to get one step ahead of it
such as avoiding huge gatherings of people and to cancel events until this problem is resolved.

 

[forkup]

The socialists here will deny it, but we all know that this is exactly what happens with socialist medicine.

I'm waiting for them to swoop down like a vulture. Correct, and then they will try to make some comparisons of their system to ours to support their stance that socialized healthcare is the greatest.

I'm game with that. Give me a metric you'd consider fair and compare.

 

[BS Filter]

The socialists here will deny it, but we all know that this is exactly what happens with socialist medicine.

List of OECD countries by hospital beds - Wikipedia
The US doesn't exactly lead the charts here. So explain to me what the excuse is for your for-profit system?

Only amateurs use Wikipedia. It's an unsecure site and can be edited by anyone

 

[Rye Catcher]

The socialists here will deny it, but we all know that this is exactly what happens with socialist medicine.

List of OECD countries by hospital beds - Wikipedia
The US doesn't exactly lead the charts here. So explain to me what the excuse is for your for-profit system?

Here's a link to: Best Healthcare In The World by Population 2020

https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/best-healthcare-in-the-world/#dataTable

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The socialists here will deny it, but we all know that this is exactly what happens with socialist medicine.

I'm waiting for them to swoop down like a vulture. Correct, and then they will try to make some comparisons of their system to ours to support their stance that socialized healthcare is the greatest.

I'm game with that. Give me a metric you'd consider fair and compare.

For one, we are treating every American that has the virus. Two, we are also working night and day to improve testing. Even if our system was overwhelmed, we would find a way to treat everybody because we pour a lot of money into our system--something that doesn't happen in socialized healthcare.

 

[Norman]

Italy is facing serious challenges, with demand for critical care far outstripping supply. Health officials there are having to make very difficult decisions about who to treat – in the knowledge that deciding not to treat will very likely lead to death.

On Thursday the Italian College of Anesthesia, Analgesia, Resuscitation and Intensive Care, issued guidelines advising doctors how to deploy scarce resources when the need for them is outstripped by the demand of critically ill patients. The guidelines state that priority should be given to those who have, first, “greater likelihood of survival and, second, who have more potential years of life”.

As a result, patients with underlying conditions and elderly patients, who are deemed to stand less chance of surviving the virus, may not be treated in favour of healthier and/or younger people who have more chance of recovery.

In the coming months we may face a similar situation in the UK where we do not have the resources necessary to treat all people who will catch Covid-19. So how do healthcare professionals decide who to treat?

Coronavirus may force UK doctors to decide who they’ll save | Jonathan Ives

Very frightening indeed. If you have chronic illnesses or are elderly, what would be going through your mind if you were diagnosed with COVID 19 in Italy, and possibly the entire UK down the road? As a person with both problems, I can tell you I would be scared Shtless.

But I don't have to worry about that, because I'm in the United States, and in the United States, we don't have socialized medical care. If I would unfortunately get the virus, I know I'll be well cared for. If my 88 year old father would get the virus, I know he will be well cared for. Same for my 86 year old mother.

The BoomerDoomer strikes.

I suppose this is one way of ending the social security scam that boomers voted themselves into all over the world, believing leftist snake oil merchants.

 

[forkup]

The socialists here will deny it, but we all know that this is exactly what happens with socialist medicine.

List of OECD countries by hospital beds - Wikipedia
The US doesn't exactly lead the charts here. So explain to me what the excuse is for your for-profit system?

Only amateurs use Wikipedia. It's an unsecure site and can be edited by anyone

Health Care Resources
Original source cited by Wikipedia. Stats are still the same. So why does the US compare so badly against most countries that have socialized medicine?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Its not a political thing, its a situation that is getting out of control.

medical triage is something that the medical profession does in cases of war , disasters, and in emergency rooms. Everyone does it.

it is akin to a boat sinking and the old story "woman and children first"

simply put if there is one needle and you have two people then who gets the needle and who decides this

its just a way to treat medical emergencies when they are overwhelmed
and it suppose to save the maximum number of lives

The discussion is out there and countries have to get one step ahead of it
such as avoiding huge gatherings of people and to cancel events until this problem is resolved.

We are doing all that and more. Even Disneyland shut down.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The socialists here will deny it, but we all know that this is exactly what happens with socialist medicine.

List of OECD countries by hospital beds - Wikipedia
The US doesn't exactly lead the charts here. So explain to me what the excuse is for your for-profit system?

Only amateurs use Wikipedia. It's an unsecure site and can be edited by anyone

Health Care Resources
Original source cited by Wikipedia. Stats are still the same. So why does the US compare so badly against most countries that have socialized medicine?

Because their main factor is we are not socialized, and that means only people with insurance or government plans are actually covered. We do treat all our citizens regardless.

 

[Norman]

Meanwhile in UK, their government health care service is focusing on important issues.

 

[occupied]

The socialists here will deny it, but we all know that this is exactly what happens with socialist medicine.

I'm waiting for them to swoop down like a vulture. Correct, and then they will try to make some comparisons of their system to ours to support their stance that socialized healthcare is the greatest.

I'm game with that. Give me a metric you'd consider fair and compare.

For one, we are treating every American that has the virus. Two, we are also working night and day to improve testing. Even if our system was overwhelmed, we would find a way to treat everybody because we pour a lot of money into our system--something that doesn't happen in socialized healthcare.

You'll see. We all will see how terribly prepared we are for this. It's one of the main reasons people are freaking out. The way out of this is a temporary system that looks a hell of a lot like a public health system. Corporate profits will be put aside and the government will have to pay for a lot of free services.

 

[forkup]

The socialists here will deny it, but we all know that this is exactly what happens with socialist medicine.

I'm waiting for them to swoop down like a vulture. Correct, and then they will try to make some comparisons of their system to ours to support their stance that socialized healthcare is the greatest.

I'm game with that. Give me a metric you'd consider fair and compare.

For one, we are treating every American that has the virus. Two, we are also working night and day to improve testing. Even if our system was overwhelmed, we would find a way to treat everybody because we pour a lot of money into our system--something that doesn't happen in socialized healthcare.

You are treating every American that has the virus? As it stands you don't even know how many people have the virus. You are working night and day to improve testing? As it stands you don't even have enough tests. As for money. At the moment all the money you poured in your system has not provided better results, simple fact. In most metrics other countries simply show better results, so why do you believe that in this case money will do the trick? Not for nothing, I believe money was the reason the US refused the test that was developed in Germany in January and where distributed to most other countries. You guys were hit and didn't even have working tests.

 

[Crepitus]

Italy is facing serious challenges, with demand for critical care far outstripping supply. Health officials there are having to make very difficult decisions about who to treat – in the knowledge that deciding not to treat will very likely lead to death.

On Thursday the Italian College of Anesthesia, Analgesia, Resuscitation and Intensive Care, issued guidelines advising doctors how to deploy scarce resources when the need for them is outstripped by the demand of critically ill patients. The guidelines state that priority should be given to those who have, first, “greater likelihood of survival and, second, who have more potential years of life”.

As a result, patients with underlying conditions and elderly patients, who are deemed to stand less chance of surviving the virus, may not be treated in favour of healthier and/or younger people who have more chance of recovery.

In the coming months we may face a similar situation in the UK where we do not have the resources necessary to treat all people who will catch Covid-19. So how do healthcare professionals decide who to treat?

Coronavirus may force UK doctors to decide who they’ll save | Jonathan Ives

Very frightening indeed. If you have chronic illnesses or are elderly, what would be going through your mind if you were diagnosed with COVID 19 in Italy, and possibly the entire UK down the road? As a person with both problems, I can tell you I would be scared Shtless.

But I don't have to worry about that, because I'm in the United States, and in the United States, we don't have socialized medical care. If I would unfortunately get the virus, I know I'll be well cared for. If my 88 year old father would get the virus, I know he will be well cared for. Same for my 86 year old mother.

Not if we run out of beds.