Socialized Healthcare. Italy May Not Treat The Elderly--COVID 19.

[Issa]

The socialists here will deny it, but we all know that this is exactly what happens with socialist medicine.

I'm waiting for them to swoop down like a vulture. Correct, and then they will try to make some comparisons of their system to ours to support their stance that socialized healthcare is the greatest.

Italy has one of the healthiest populations on earth and top 2 life expectancy due to their lifestyle and health care.....every time I go there I see healthy looking people dressed nicely I see a trump rally and all I see is hundreds of obese dressed in baggy crappy clothes looking sick as ****.

 

[forkup]

Italy is having to triage. The rules of triage have absolutely nothing to do with having socialized or for-profit medicine if applied correctly.

You're not gonne win me over, so you might as well move on and sell your propaganda to some naive college kids.

Never had the slightest illusion I could win you over. Nor do I have the illusion that any of you will ever be able to come up with a rational argument as to why you consider for-profit healthcare superior.

It's superior because we have the better doctors and technology. We don't have to wait for surgery.

And you can, of course, prove this? Your life expectancy is considerably lower, you have a higher mortality rate in most categories of preventable deaths. A notable exception is cancer where you score slightly better. So again why are your supposedly better doctors and technology not reflected in actual statistics?https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/best-healthcare-in-the-world/

Because of the fact longevity is not always, and most not always, related to healthcare. We have a huge drug problem in our country that's now taking over 100,000 lives a year. With the drug problem comes the gang violence which also ends up deadly much of the time. Keep in mind many of these victims are younger people.

Many of our women are career gals. They go to college, get out in their mid 20's, and work on repaying their college debts while starting their career. They have babies much later in life than women of other countries, which gives them a much higher risk of birthing a still born or baby with severe birth defects. Younger women with drug addiction problems also face the same situation.

We also have an obesity problem which is out of control of our medical personnel. Sure, they advise us to lose weight and exercise, but many don't. We don't use public transportation as much as other places, so our automobile deaths are extremely high compared to countries that mostly rely on public transportation.

When you examine all these factors, it clearly demonstrates our problem when it comes to "average" lifespan. Most of the people who pass away are on Medicare which is government healthcare.

Life expectancy is just one of the metrics and not the most indicative. How do mortality rates in the U.S. compare to other countries? - Peterson-Kaiser Health System Tracker
This has absolutely nothing to do with life-expectancy for instance just with your chance of survival if you do get sick. So again why do you guys have higher mortality rates when you do get sick? If the assertion that you guys have better doctors and technology?

 

[forkup]

Wow, your psychic ability baffles me. You can see from behind a computer screen that I don't work?

Chances are I work more hours a year than most people on this board, but hey regale me some more with your insights. Who knows maybe someday you'll guess right.

Where do you live?

Belgium

You don't have socialist healthcare.

We have a healthcare system largely financed by taxes. State-run hospitals. Government-controlled prices for medicine etc. etc. Most countries that you consider having socialized healthcare have some version of this.

And most of your citizens have private health insurance, huh.

We have supplementary insurance. In my case hospitalization insurance. If I get hospitalized I don't have to pay the average of about 500 euro but rather nothing. Our actual health insurance companies are heavily subsidized private companies without a for-profit motive their chairmen are political appointees. For all intents and purposes, they are an extension of our government.

 

[sparky]

Our actual health insurance companies are heavily subsidized private companies without a for-profit motive.

which reeks of the 'rich live', the 'poor die'.....~S~

 

[forkup]

Our actual health insurance companies are heavily subsidized private companies without a for-profit motive.

which reeks of the 'rich live', the 'poor die'.....~S~

Your opinion based not on reality. Everybody is insured.

 

[Flash]

Dumbass Liberal:

"Lets put the government in charge of our health care, what could possibly go wrong?"

 

[sparky]

Our actual health insurance companies are heavily subsidized private companies without a for-profit motive.

which reeks of the 'rich live', the 'poor die'.....~S~

Your opinion based not on reality. Everybody is insured.

My opinion is based on 3 decades listening to patients in the back of an ambulance

Most folks can't handle that reality

~S~

 

[forkup]

Our actual health insurance companies are heavily subsidized private companies without a for-profit motive.

which reeks of the 'rich live', the 'poor die'.....~S~

Your opinion based not on reality. Everybody is insured.

My opinion is based on 3 decades listening to patients in the back of an ambulance

Most folks can't handle that reality

~S~

In the US or someplace else?

 

[sparky]

Our actual health insurance companies are heavily subsidized private companies without a for-profit motive.

which reeks of the 'rich live', the 'poor die'.....~S~

Your opinion based not on reality. Everybody is insured.

My opinion is based on 3 decades listening to patients in the back of an ambulance

Most folks can't handle that reality

~S~

In the US or someplace else?

US of A

~S~

 

[forkup]

Our actual health insurance companies are heavily subsidized private companies without a for-profit motive.

which reeks of the 'rich live', the 'poor die'.....~S~

Your opinion based not on reality. Everybody is insured.

My opinion is based on 3 decades listening to patients in the back of an ambulance

Most folks can't handle that reality

~S~

In the US or someplace else?

US of A

~S~

So you feel sitting in the back of an ambulance in the US makes you more knowledgable of the healthcare system in another country than the person who has lived in that country for 40 years?

 

[sparky]

which reeks of the 'rich live', the 'poor die'.....~S~

Your opinion based not on reality. Everybody is insured.

My opinion is based on 3 decades listening to patients in the back of an ambulance

Most folks can't handle that reality

~S~

In the US or someplace else?

US of A

~S~

So you feel sitting in the back of an ambulance in the US makes you more knowledgable of the healthcare system in another country than the person who has lived in that country for 40 years?

I need not respond to something i did not imply Mr Forkup

~S~

 

[forkup]

Your opinion based not on reality. Everybody is insured.

My opinion is based on 3 decades listening to patients in the back of an ambulance

Most folks can't handle that reality

~S~

In the US or someplace else?

US of A

~S~

So you feel sitting in the back of an ambulance in the US makes you more knowledgable of the healthcare system in another country than the person who has lived in that country for 40 years?

I need not respond to something i did not imply Mr Forkup

~S~

My opinion is based on 3 decades listening to patients in the back of an ambulance

Most folks can't handle that reality

I beg to differ

 

[eagle1462010]

The socialists here will deny it, but we all know that this is exactly what happens with socialist medicine.

I'm waiting for them to swoop down like a vulture. Correct, and then they will try to make some comparisons of their system to ours to support their stance that socialized healthcare is the greatest.

Italy has one of the healthiest populations on earth and top 2 life expectancy due to their lifestyle and health care.....every time I go there I see healthy looking people dressed nicely I see a trump rally and all I see is hundreds of obese dressed in baggy crappy clothes looking sick as ****.

And That my friends is why Trump will be your President for another 4 years....

Keep up the good work libs....

 

[Flash]

 

[BS Filter]

Where do you live?

Belgium

You don't have socialist healthcare.

We have a healthcare system largely financed by taxes. State-run hospitals. Government-controlled prices for medicine etc. etc. Most countries that you consider having socialized healthcare have some version of this.

And most of your citizens have private health insurance, huh.

We have supplementary insurance. In my case hospitalization insurance. If I get hospitalized I don't have to pay the average of about 500 euro but rather nothing. Our actual health insurance companies are heavily subsidized private companies without a for-profit motive their chairmen are political appointees. For all intents and purposes, they are an extension of our government.

Oh yeah, you're so morally superior in Belgium, huh.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You're not gonne win me over, so you might as well move on and sell your propaganda to some naive college kids.

Never had the slightest illusion I could win you over. Nor do I have the illusion that any of you will ever be able to come up with a rational argument as to why you consider for-profit healthcare superior.

It's superior because we have the better doctors and technology. We don't have to wait for surgery.

And you can, of course, prove this? Your life expectancy is considerably lower, you have a higher mortality rate in most categories of preventable deaths. A notable exception is cancer where you score slightly better. So again why are your supposedly better doctors and technology not reflected in actual statistics?https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/best-healthcare-in-the-world/

Because of the fact longevity is not always, and most not always, related to healthcare. We have a huge drug problem in our country that's now taking over 100,000 lives a year. With the drug problem comes the gang violence which also ends up deadly much of the time. Keep in mind many of these victims are younger people.

Many of our women are career gals. They go to college, get out in their mid 20's, and work on repaying their college debts while starting their career. They have babies much later in life than women of other countries, which gives them a much higher risk of birthing a still born or baby with severe birth defects. Younger women with drug addiction problems also face the same situation.

We also have an obesity problem which is out of control of our medical personnel. Sure, they advise us to lose weight and exercise, but many don't. We don't use public transportation as much as other places, so our automobile deaths are extremely high compared to countries that mostly rely on public transportation.

When you examine all these factors, it clearly demonstrates our problem when it comes to "average" lifespan. Most of the people who pass away are on Medicare which is government healthcare.

Life expectancy is just one of the metrics and not the most indicative. How do mortality rates in the U.S. compare to other countries? - Peterson-Kaiser Health System Tracker
This has absolutely nothing to do with life-expectancy for instance just with your chance of survival if you do get sick. So again why do you guys have higher mortality rates when you do get sick? If the assertion that you guys have better doctors and technology?

Life expectancy is how long the average person lives. Yes, that decreases because of the many young deaths we have. I like how your site states "comparable countries" without naming them. Sounds pretty selective to me to try and make a point.

Americans are workaholics. Ask your wife about that. Most people here don't go to the doctor unless they have no other choice, which in some cases, is too late. Again, drugs and obesity play a part in that as well. In any case, nobody wants to miss work for a cough, cold, or even fever, however this new virus will likely change that.

Now if our healthcare system was so inadequate, why is it VIP's from around the world all come here for serious health problems? Why don't they go to one of these other wonderful "comparable countries?" As a patent at the Cleveland Clinic, I can tell you when I go to their main campus downtown, I'm the one who feels like a foreigner.

I know people that work there as well. When VIP's do come in, it's not even reported on our news. The only way you know of it is if you work in that department, or know somebody that does. Some of them have rented out entire hospital floors for security reasons. The elevator doesn't even stop on that floor unless you have an elevator key. To rent out an entire hospital floor, you know what kind of money these people are worth.

 

[berg80]

But I don't have to worry about that, because I'm in the United States, and in the United States, we don't have socialized medical care. If I would unfortunately get the virus, I know I'll be well cared for. If my 88 year old father would get the virus, I know he will be well cared for. Same for my 86 year old mother.

You are kidding yourself. We stand last among industrialized nations in testing. If you think there are an adequate number of hospital beds and or ventilators to handle the volume of cases that will develop in the coming weeks you are wrong.
BTW, if you want to give credibility to your assertion provide proof any country with a national health system has an inadequate number of hospital beds because of that system. The problem in Italy is there have been so many people who caught the virus in a short period of time Italy's healthcare providers have become overwhelmed. If we are not able to slow the spread of the virus here we will be in the same circumstance.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The socialists here will deny it, but we all know that this is exactly what happens with socialist medicine.

I'm waiting for them to swoop down like a vulture. Correct, and then they will try to make some comparisons of their system to ours to support their stance that socialized healthcare is the greatest.

Italy has one of the healthiest populations on earth and top 2 life expectancy due to their lifestyle and health care.....every time I go there I see healthy looking people dressed nicely I see a trump rally and all I see is hundreds of obese dressed in baggy crappy clothes looking sick as ****.

Oh, so when you go to Italy, all you see are healthy well dressed people? Then that settles it. Their healthcare must be better than ours.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

List of OECD countries by hospital beds - Wikipedia
The US doesn't exactly lead the charts here. So explain to me what the excuse is for your for-profit system?

Only amateurs use Wikipedia. It's an unsecure site and can be edited by anyone

Health Care Resources
Original source cited by Wikipedia. Stats are still the same. So why does the US compare so badly against most countries that have socialized medicine?

Because their main factor is we are not socialized, and that means only people with insurance or government plans are actually covered. We do treat all our citizens regardless.

I'm sorry to tell you this but I know for a fact you are lying by omission here. My wife is American and I know for a fact that the level of treatment someone receives differs significantly from person to person. And that beyond basic care, treatment is unavailable to significant portions of your populace by the simple means of it being unaffordable.

Nobody is dying in the street with our system. We have a law that everybody is entitled to emergency care regardless of ability to pay. Furthermore, hospitals and clinics often have charity accounts for those evil rich white people to contribute funds, so that people who have no resources can get care too.

Have you been to a homeless camp? Yes we have people dying in the streets.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Italy is facing serious challenges, with demand for critical care far outstripping supply. Health officials there are having to make very difficult decisions about who to treat – in the knowledge that deciding not to treat will very likely lead to death.

On Thursday the Italian College of Anesthesia, Analgesia, Resuscitation and Intensive Care, issued guidelines advising doctors how to deploy scarce resources when the need for them is outstripped by the demand of critically ill patients. The guidelines state that priority should be given to those who have, first, “greater likelihood of survival and, second, who have more potential years of life”.

As a result, patients with underlying conditions and elderly patients, who are deemed to stand less chance of surviving the virus, may not be treated in favour of healthier and/or younger people who have more chance of recovery.

In the coming months we may face a similar situation in the UK where we do not have the resources necessary to treat all people who will catch Covid-19. So how do healthcare professionals decide who to treat?

Coronavirus may force UK doctors to decide who they’ll save | Jonathan Ives

Very frightening indeed. If you have chronic illnesses or are elderly, what would be going through your mind if you were diagnosed with COVID 19 in Italy, and possibly the entire UK down the road? As a person with both problems, I can tell you I would be scared Shtless.

But I don't have to worry about that, because I'm in the United States, and in the United States, we don't have socialized medical care. If I would unfortunately get the virus, I know I'll be well cared for. If my 88 year old father would get the virus, I know he will be well cared for. Same for my 86 year old mother.

Sweet heart when it comes to health care, compassion and solidarity italy can teach you many lessons. I have family and friends that live in italy and the stories are coming out of there should be taught in American schools to teach real human values.

Having said that millions of america are not insured, millions go bankrupt after s procedure.

I just did a procedure that costs nothing to italians , my inssurance paid 110k for it.

Stop your bullshit.

I'd suggest you do the same.

Most of the bankruptcies associated with medical is not because of medical bills. When people become ill, they often take a lot of time off of work. You can't collect unemployment if you are out of work for illness, and very few people buy long term disability insurance.

So the bills you've always paid in the past keep coming in, but you have no income to pay them. So people file bankruptcy with hopes of working in the future to straighten out their credit records.