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The outcome depends on flattening the curve. Socialized healthcare has nothing to do with it.
Do you see that "health-care system capacity"?
Are you saying that socialized medicine has nothing to do with the health care system?
Yes, that is what I'm saying. That's also what the experts are saying.
And what experts might those be?
Yes, I didn't even mention that we have four ambulances for the whole county and takes a minimum of 2 1/2 - 3 hours to transport someone to a real hospital. Also our closest big hospital is still at diminished capacity due to being fucked up in hurricane Michael.I'm specifically thinking about our local rural hospital. It's been hanging by a thread for years. We have a lot of retired people here who routinely have to travel 80 miles for routine appointments with doctors. We limp along with nurse practitioners and part-time doctors. When that shit gets here we are fucked. We are isolated but we are also a vacation destination. There are millions of Americans that are at the mercy of already stressed medical services with no reserve capacity.It's called triage. We have the same thing here only they include ability to pay in the decision. There are only so many resources available in any medical system. After the limits are exceeded doctors and managers start making these terrible decisions of who to treat and who to pray for. Our own system is about to be stressed beyond their limits and people will die from lack of treatment. Deal with it.
Yep, same thing will happen here if we get to the point we have to ration care because ofn limited bed space, equipment or personnel.
Yeah, this would obviously exasperate the problem. Also, federal help (which isn't a given anymore) is going to arrive at population centers first which is a form of rationing.
They are the ones that get fucked the hardest yet never blame the people they vote for. Quite a racket you republicans have going for you.I am just saying how it is in Trump country. Living in the sticks is cool and all but as we learned after hurricane Michael, Trump does not care that much about Trump country.Yes, I didn't even mention that we have four ambulances for the whole county and takes a minimum of 2 1/2 - 3 hours to transport someone to a real hospital. Also our closest big hospital is still at diminished capacity due to being fucked up in hurricane Michael.I'm specifically thinking about our local rural hospital. It's been hanging by a thread for years. We have a lot of retired people here who routinely have to travel 80 miles for routine appointments with doctors. We limp along with nurse practitioners and part-time doctors. When that shit gets here we are fucked. We are isolated but we are also a vacation destination. There are millions of Americans that are at the mercy of already stressed medical services with no reserve capacity.
Yeah, this would obviously exasperate the problem. Also, federal help (which isn't a given anymore) is going to arrive at population centers first which is a form of rationing.
Occupied, sounds like you have found your country.
Now nothing is stopping you from leaving the country for a nation you prefer. Oh but you prefer it here, just like the Belgian dude who prefers it in the US message board over Belgian message board... huh...
Well just for your information, this is Trump country:
View attachment 312492
They are the ones that get fucked the hardest yet never blame the people they vote for. Quite a racket you republicans have going for you.
And you can, of course, prove this? Your life expectancy is considerably lower, you have a higher mortality rate in most categories of preventable deaths. A notable exception is cancer where you score slightly better. So again why are your supposedly better doctors and technology not reflected in actual statistics?https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/best-healthcare-in-the-world/It's superior because we have the better doctors and technology. We don't have to wait for surgery.Never had the slightest illusion I could win you over. Nor do I have the illusion that any of you will ever be able to come up with a rational argument as to why you consider for-profit healthcare superior.You're not gonne win me over, so you might as well move on and sell your propaganda to some naive college kids.Italy is having to triage. The rules of triage have absolutely nothing to do with having socialized or for-profit medicine if applied correctly.It doesn't. Italy has socialist medicine and thet are going to focus on younger people instead of seniors during the coronavirus epidemic.
A helicopter ride to the big hospital costs 12 thousand dollars. It's one of the many things that is still losing money and is currently in danger of getting closed down.Yes, I didn't even mention that we have four ambulances for the whole county and takes a minimum of 2 1/2 - 3 hours to transport someone to a real hospital. Also our closest big hospital is still at diminished capacity due to being fucked up in hurricane Michael.I'm specifically thinking about our local rural hospital. It's been hanging by a thread for years. We have a lot of retired people here who routinely have to travel 80 miles for routine appointments with doctors. We limp along with nurse practitioners and part-time doctors. When that shit gets here we are fucked. We are isolated but we are also a vacation destination. There are millions of Americans that are at the mercy of already stressed medical services with no reserve capacity.It's called triage. We have the same thing here only they include ability to pay in the decision. There are only so many resources available in any medical system. After the limits are exceeded doctors and managers start making these terrible decisions of who to treat and who to pray for. Our own system is about to be stressed beyond their limits and people will die from lack of treatment. Deal with it.
Yep, same thing will happen here if we get to the point we have to ration care because ofn limited bed space, equipment or personnel.
Yeah, this would obviously exasperate the problem. Also, federal help (which isn't a given anymore) is going to arrive at population centers first which is a form of rationing.
Many of our major hospitals have heliports for those who cannot wait for the ride through town. You should suggest that to whoever represents you over there.
Ant the excuse always is, "well, THEY dont do socialism right, like we will." They never learn!The socialists here will deny it, but we all know that this is exactly what happens with socialist medicine.
Italy is facing serious challenges, with demand for critical care far outstripping supply. Health officials there are having to make very difficult decisions about who to treat – in the knowledge that deciding not to treat will very likely lead to death.
On Thursday the Italian College of Anesthesia, Analgesia, Resuscitation and Intensive Care, issued guidelines advising doctors how to deploy scarce resources when the need for them is outstripped by the demand of critically ill patients. The guidelines state that priority should be given to those who have, first, “greater likelihood of survival and, second, who have more potential years of life”.
As a result, patients with underlying conditions and elderly patients, who are deemed to stand less chance of surviving the virus, may not be treated in favour of healthier and/or younger people who have more chance of recovery.
In the coming months we may face a similar situation in the UK where we do not have the resources necessary to treat all people who will catch Covid-19. So how do healthcare professionals decide who to treat?
Coronavirus may force UK doctors to decide who they’ll save | Jonathan Ives
Very frightening indeed. If you have chronic illnesses or are elderly, what would be going through your mind if you were diagnosed with COVID 19 in Italy, and possibly the entire UK down the road? As a person with both problems, I can tell you I would be scared Shtless.
But I don't have to worry about that, because I'm in the United States, and in the United States, we don't have socialized medical care. If I would unfortunately get the virus, I know I'll be well cared for. If my 88 year old father would get the virus, I know he will be well cared for. Same for my 86 year old mother.
Think again. Italy and the UK have more hospital beds and ventilators per 1000 of population than the United States.
Care isn't being rationed because of socialized medicine. It's being rationed because of a lack of beds, doctors, nurses and equipment, and there are fewer beds and ventilators in the USA than in either GB or Italy, based on population. The only hope you have is to slow the spread of the virus, and Trump blew that when the USA went for 6 weeks without testing.
Population of Belgium: 11 million.
New York has almost that amount on a good day.
No, they won't. What they will refuse is make sure you get a new heart if you can't show you can pay for it.No Cash, No Heart. Transplant Centers Need to Know You Can Pay. If you have diabetes and you can't pay your insulin you are shit out of luck too. Etc. etc. So not just not all care you need but in some cases not even care you need to survive.Oh really? So you are claiming that everybody in the US gets all the care they require?I'm sorry to tell you this but I know for a fact you are lying by omission here. My wife is American and I know for a fact that the level of treatment someone receives differs significantly from person to person. And that beyond basic care, treatment is unavailable to significant portions of your populace by the simple means of it being unaffordable.Because their main factor is we are not socialized, and that means only people with insurance or government plans are actually covered. We do treat all our citizens regardless.
Nobody is dying in the street with our system. We have a law that everybody is entitled to emergency care regardless of ability to pay. Furthermore, hospitals and clinics often have charity accounts for those evil rich white people to contribute funds, so that people who have no resources can get care too.
Perhaps not all the care, but enough to keep them going. If you want a sex change operation, or a face lift, and you have no money or coverage, you are shit out of luck. If you have a heart attack, the hospital is not going to refuse you at the emergency room doors because you have no coverage.
A helicopter ride to the big hospital costs 12 thousand dollars. It's one of the many things that is still losing money and is currently in danger of getting closed down.Yes, I didn't even mention that we have four ambulances for the whole county and takes a minimum of 2 1/2 - 3 hours to transport someone to a real hospital. Also our closest big hospital is still at diminished capacity due to being fucked up in hurricane Michael.I'm specifically thinking about our local rural hospital. It's been hanging by a thread for years. We have a lot of retired people here who routinely have to travel 80 miles for routine appointments with doctors. We limp along with nurse practitioners and part-time doctors. When that shit gets here we are fucked. We are isolated but we are also a vacation destination. There are millions of Americans that are at the mercy of already stressed medical services with no reserve capacity.Yep, same thing will happen here if we get to the point we have to ration care because ofn limited bed space, equipment or personnel.
Yeah, this would obviously exasperate the problem. Also, federal help (which isn't a given anymore) is going to arrive at population centers first which is a form of rationing.
Many of our major hospitals have heliports for those who cannot wait for the ride through town. You should suggest that to whoever represents you over there.
They are the ones that get fucked the hardest yet never blame the people they vote for. Quite a racket you republicans have going for you.I am just saying how it is in Trump country. Living in the sticks is cool and all but as we learned after hurricane Michael, Trump does not care that much about Trump country.Yes, I didn't even mention that we have four ambulances for the whole county and takes a minimum of 2 1/2 - 3 hours to transport someone to a real hospital. Also our closest big hospital is still at diminished capacity due to being fucked up in hurricane Michael.Yeah, this would obviously exasperate the problem. Also, federal help (which isn't a given anymore) is going to arrive at population centers first which is a form of rationing.
Occupied, sounds like you have found your country.
Now nothing is stopping you from leaving the country for a nation you prefer. Oh but you prefer it here, just like the Belgian dude who prefers it in the US message board over Belgian message board... huh...
Well just for your information, this is Trump country:
View attachment 312492
The outcome depends on flattening the curve. Socialized healthcare has nothing to do with it.
Do you see that "health-care system capacity"?
Are you saying that socialized medicine has nothing to do with the health care system?
Yes, that is what I'm saying. That's also what the experts are saying.
And what experts might those be?
All the medical and health experts I hear and see on CNN and MSNBC - among others. Also, Doctor David Ho.
David Ho - Wikipedia
They are the ones that get fucked the hardest yet never blame the people they vote for. Quite a racket you republicans have going for you.I am just saying how it is in Trump country. Living in the sticks is cool and all but as we learned after hurricane Michael, Trump does not care that much about Trump country.Yes, I didn't even mention that we have four ambulances for the whole county and takes a minimum of 2 1/2 - 3 hours to transport someone to a real hospital. Also our closest big hospital is still at diminished capacity due to being fucked up in hurricane Michael.
Occupied, sounds like you have found your country.
Now nothing is stopping you from leaving the country for a nation you prefer. Oh but you prefer it here, just like the Belgian dude who prefers it in the US message board over Belgian message board... huh...
Well just for your information, this is Trump country:
View attachment 312492
Fucked the hardest how? The lowest unemployment rate in 50 years? New high in median household income? New record employment in all minority categories? Lower taxes?
If this is getting fucked, then I'm enjoying it.
They are the ones that get fucked the hardest yet never blame the people they vote for. Quite a racket you republicans have going for you.I am just saying how it is in Trump country. Living in the sticks is cool and all but as we learned after hurricane Michael, Trump does not care that much about Trump country.Occupied, sounds like you have found your country.
Now nothing is stopping you from leaving the country for a nation you prefer. Oh but you prefer it here, just like the Belgian dude who prefers it in the US message board over Belgian message board... huh...
Well just for your information, this is Trump country:
View attachment 312492
Fucked the hardest how? The lowest unemployment rate in 50 years? New high in median household income? New record employment in all minority categories? Lower taxes?
If this is getting fucked, then I'm enjoying it.
Why do you dumb NaziCons keep trying to give Trump credit for President Obama's economy? Trump hasn't done jack shit except artificially juice the economy (which wasn't needed) with massive deregulation and massive tax cuts for the rich.
Yes, I didn't even mention that we have four ambulances for the whole county and takes a minimum of 2 1/2 - 3 hours to transport someone to a real hospital. Also our closest big hospital is still at diminished capacity due to being fucked up in hurricane Michael.I'm specifically thinking about our local rural hospital. It's been hanging by a thread for years. We have a lot of retired people here who routinely have to travel 80 miles for routine appointments with doctors. We limp along with nurse practitioners and part-time doctors. When that shit gets here we are fucked. We are isolated but we are also a vacation destination. There are millions of Americans that are at the mercy of already stressed medical services with no reserve capacity.It's called triage. We have the same thing here only they include ability to pay in the decision. There are only so many resources available in any medical system. After the limits are exceeded doctors and managers start making these terrible decisions of who to treat and who to pray for. Our own system is about to be stressed beyond their limits and people will die from lack of treatment. Deal with it.
Yep, same thing will happen here if we get to the point we have to ration care because ofn limited bed space, equipment or personnel.
Yeah, this would obviously exasperate the problem. Also, federal help (which isn't a given anymore) is going to arrive at population centers first which is a form of rationing.
Why do you dumb NaziCons keep trying to give Trump credit for President Obama's economy? Trump hasn't done jack shit except artificially juice the economy (which wasn't needed) with massive deregulation and massive tax cuts for the rich.
Why do you dumb NaziCons keep trying to give Trump credit for President Obama's economy? Trump hasn't done jack shit except artificially juice the economy (which wasn't needed) with massive deregulation and massive tax cuts for the rich.
Quite simple really. DumBama didn't do anything for the economy. It was all the federal reserve and their injection of trillions of dollars into the market that saved him. Down the road, fracking (which DumBama and the commies are strictly against) lowered fuel bills for everybody. That gave Americans extra residual income which they used. DumBama was the most anti-business President in our lifetime. How one can say the most anti-business President we've ever had was responsible for job growth is beyond my ability to understand. It's the reason DumBama presided over the slowest recovery since WWII. The economy didn't grow because of anything he did, it grew in spite of everything he did.
President Trump got rid of Commie Care fines. He lowered taxes on businesses and blue-collar workers alike. He removed DumBama's job killing regulations, and created a policy that for every new business regulation created, two had to be removed in it's place.
Sweet heart when it comes to health care, compassion and solidarity italy can teach you many lessons. I have family and friends that live in italy and the stories are coming out of there should be taught in American schools to teach real human values.Italy is facing serious challenges, with demand for critical care far outstripping supply. Health officials there are having to make very difficult decisions about who to treat – in the knowledge that deciding not to treat will very likely lead to death.
On Thursday the Italian College of Anesthesia, Analgesia, Resuscitation and Intensive Care, issued guidelines advising doctors how to deploy scarce resources when the need for them is outstripped by the demand of critically ill patients. The guidelines state that priority should be given to those who have, first, “greater likelihood of survival and, second, who have more potential years of life”.
As a result, patients with underlying conditions and elderly patients, who are deemed to stand less chance of surviving the virus, may not be treated in favour of healthier and/or younger people who have more chance of recovery.
In the coming months we may face a similar situation in the UK where we do not have the resources necessary to treat all people who will catch Covid-19. So how do healthcare professionals decide who to treat?
Coronavirus may force UK doctors to decide who they’ll save | Jonathan Ives
Very frightening indeed. If you have chronic illnesses or are elderly, what would be going through your mind if you were diagnosed with COVID 19 in Italy, and possibly the entire UK down the road? As a person with both problems, I can tell you I would be scared Shtless.
But I don't have to worry about that, because I'm in the United States, and in the United States, we don't have socialized medical care. If I would unfortunately get the virus, I know I'll be well cared for. If my 88 year old father would get the virus, I know he will be well cared for. Same for my 86 year old mother.
