Socialized Healthcare. Italy May Not Treat The Elderly--COVID 19.

[Norman]

It's superior because we have the better doctors and technology. We don't have to wait for surgery.

And you can, of course, prove this? Your life expectancy is considerably lower, you have a higher mortality rate in most categories of preventable deaths. A notable exception is cancer where you score slightly better. So again why are your supposedly better doctors and technology not reflected in actual statistics?https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/best-healthcare-in-the-world/

Propaganda. Healthcare isn't a right. You have the right to live healthy, but you don't have a right to healthcare any more than you have a right to a free car.

Sure this is an answer to something just not to what I asked. You asserted that the US has better technology and doctors than the rest of the world. I asked why this isn't reflected in actual statistics? Usually, when people make assertions in a debate setting they are required to be able to back it up. So go ahead.

It's because the statistics have nothing to do with our medical technology.

It's also because you live in a profoundly racist nation that hasn't accepted almost any black people in, who have lesser life expectancy.

I kind of decided not to reply to you anymore but this is just to much fun. First, you go on a little tantrum about Muslims overwhelming us and now you are calling Belgium a profoundly racist nation.

I have to say if your intention is trolling me I have to admit your good. I can not resist replying to this kind of inconsistency.

Belgium is a profoundly racist nation. And yes, has socialist roots... national socialism was the particular brand, and they are headed to it again.

Decades ago we Americans came and kicked your asses when you were collaborating in putting the Jews to burners. The ass kicking was so hard that you probably still feel it... is that why you are here?

The Belgian cucks back then were completely stomped by Hitler. Just as they will be stomped by equally intolerant Muslims this time. Their signature lack of balls and surrender is what always makes the Belgians intolerant racists in the end.

We will never forget the extreme racism of the nation.
The Holocaust in Belgium - Wikipedia

 

[occupied]

It's called triage. We have the same thing here only they include ability to pay in the decision. There are only so many resources available in any medical system. After the limits are exceeded doctors and managers start making these terrible decisions of who to treat and who to pray for. Our own system is about to be stressed beyond their limits and people will die from lack of treatment. Deal with it.

Yep, same thing will happen here if we get to the point we have to ration care because ofn limited bed space, equipment or personnel.

I'm specifically thinking about our local rural hospital. It's been hanging by a thread for years. We have a lot of retired people here who routinely have to travel 80 miles for routine appointments with doctors. We limp along with nurse practitioners and part-time doctors. When that shit gets here we are fucked. We are isolated but we are also a vacation destination. There are millions of Americans that are at the mercy of already stressed medical services with no reserve capacity.

Yeah, this would obviously exasperate the problem. Also, federal help (which isn't a given anymore) is going to arrive at population centers first which is a form of rationing.

Yes, I didn't even mention that we have four ambulances for the whole county and takes a minimum of 2 1/2 - 3 hours to transport someone to a real hospital. Also our closest big hospital is still at diminished capacity due to being fucked up in hurricane Michael.

Occupied, sounds like you have found your country.

Now nothing is stopping you from leaving the country for a nation you prefer. Oh but you prefer it here, just like the Belgian dude who prefers it in the US message board over Belgian message board... huh...

I am just saying how it is in Trump country. Living in the sticks is cool and all but as we learned after hurricane Michael, Trump does not care that much about Trump country.

 

[forkup]

And you can, of course, prove this? Your life expectancy is considerably lower, you have a higher mortality rate in most categories of preventable deaths. A notable exception is cancer where you score slightly better. So again why are your supposedly better doctors and technology not reflected in actual statistics?https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/best-healthcare-in-the-world/

Propaganda. Healthcare isn't a right. You have the right to live healthy, but you don't have a right to healthcare any more than you have a right to a free car.

Sure this is an answer to something just not to what I asked. You asserted that the US has better technology and doctors than the rest of the world. I asked why this isn't reflected in actual statistics? Usually, when people make assertions in a debate setting they are required to be able to back it up. So go ahead.

It's because the statistics have nothing to do with our medical technology.

It's also because you live in a profoundly racist nation that hasn't accepted almost any black people in, who have lesser life expectancy.

I kind of decided not to reply to you anymore but this is just to much fun. First, you go on a little tantrum about Muslims overwhelming us and now you are calling Belgium a profoundly racist nation.

I have to say if your intention is trolling me I have to admit your good. I can not resist replying to this kind of inconsistency.

Belgium is a profoundly racist nation. And yes, has socialist roots... national socialism was the particular brand, and they are headed to it again.

Decades ago we Americans came and kicked your asses when you were collaborating in putting the Jews to burners. The ass kicking was so hard that you probably still feel it... is that why you are here?

The Belgian cucks back then were completely stomped by Hitler. Just as they will be stomped by equally intolerant Muslims this time. Their signature lack of balls is what always makes them intolerant racists in the end.

We will never forget the extreme racism of the nation.
The Holocaust in Belgium - Wikipedia

Norman what you know about WW2 can probably be written on a napkin, provided you write in big letters. If this is the best you can do you are either insanely dumb or someone who just thinks that pissing people off behind a computer screen is an achievement. I would love to continue and laugh my ass off reading whatever stupidity you come up with next but that's probably not the best way to spend my time.

 

[Norman]

Yep, same thing will happen here if we get to the point we have to ration care because ofn limited bed space, equipment or personnel.

I'm specifically thinking about our local rural hospital. It's been hanging by a thread for years. We have a lot of retired people here who routinely have to travel 80 miles for routine appointments with doctors. We limp along with nurse practitioners and part-time doctors. When that shit gets here we are fucked. We are isolated but we are also a vacation destination. There are millions of Americans that are at the mercy of already stressed medical services with no reserve capacity.

Yeah, this would obviously exasperate the problem. Also, federal help (which isn't a given anymore) is going to arrive at population centers first which is a form of rationing.

Yes, I didn't even mention that we have four ambulances for the whole county and takes a minimum of 2 1/2 - 3 hours to transport someone to a real hospital. Also our closest big hospital is still at diminished capacity due to being fucked up in hurricane Michael.

Occupied, sounds like you have found your country.

Now nothing is stopping you from leaving the country for a nation you prefer. Oh but you prefer it here, just like the Belgian dude who prefers it in the US message board over Belgian message board... huh...

I am just saying how it is in Trump country. Living in the sticks is cool and all but as we learned after hurricane Michael, Trump does not care that much about Trump country.

Trump country? Do you mean America? You should try saying the name of the country sometime, even if it is to entertain our Belgian "guest"... who apparently self-invited himself.

Trump loves America, and is making it great, stopping the "progress". There is nowhere to progress ideologically, freedom is the ultimate value for America and always will be. We will never be a socialist country.

 

[Norman]

Propaganda. Healthcare isn't a right. You have the right to live healthy, but you don't have a right to healthcare any more than you have a right to a free car.

Sure this is an answer to something just not to what I asked. You asserted that the US has better technology and doctors than the rest of the world. I asked why this isn't reflected in actual statistics? Usually, when people make assertions in a debate setting they are required to be able to back it up. So go ahead.

It's because the statistics have nothing to do with our medical technology.

It's also because you live in a profoundly racist nation that hasn't accepted almost any black people in, who have lesser life expectancy.

I kind of decided not to reply to you anymore but this is just to much fun. First, you go on a little tantrum about Muslims overwhelming us and now you are calling Belgium a profoundly racist nation.

I have to say if your intention is trolling me I have to admit your good. I can not resist replying to this kind of inconsistency.

Belgium is a profoundly racist nation. And yes, has socialist roots... national socialism was the particular brand, and they are headed to it again.

Decades ago we Americans came and kicked your asses when you were collaborating in putting the Jews to burners. The ass kicking was so hard that you probably still feel it... is that why you are here?

The Belgian cucks back then were completely stomped by Hitler. Just as they will be stomped by equally intolerant Muslims this time. Their signature lack of balls is what always makes them intolerant racists in the end.

We will never forget the extreme racism of the nation.
The Holocaust in Belgium - Wikipedia

Norman what you know about WW2 can probably be written on a napkin, provided you write in big letters. If this is the best you can do you are either insanely dumb or someone who just thinks that pissing people off behind a computer screen is an achievement. I would love to continue and laugh my ass off reading whatever stupidity you come up with next but that's probably not the best way to spend my time.

It was glorious kicking your national socialist ass in WWII. We will do it again the next time you get invaded... looking at the Greece border it is any minute now, and all they had to do was ask.

Imagine that, your balls have shrunk even smaller than the last time. Is that even possible? No wonder all the socialist health care needed to address the gender dysphoria.

 

[Lakhota]

The outcome depends on flattening the curve. Socialized healthcare has nothing to do with it.

 

[Norman]

The outcome depends on flattening the curve. Socialized healthcare has nothing to do with it.

Do you see that "health-care system capacity"?

Are you saying that socialized medicine has nothing to do with the health care system?

 

[Lakhota]

The outcome depends on flattening the curve. Socialized healthcare has nothing to do with it.

Do you see that "health-care system capacity"?

Are you saying that socialized medicine has nothing to do with the health care system?

Yes, that is what I'm saying. That's also what the experts are saying.

 

[Norman]

The outcome depends on flattening the curve. Socialized healthcare has nothing to do with it.

Do you see that "health-care system capacity"?

Are you saying that socialized medicine has nothing to do with the health care system?

Yes, that is what I'm saying. That's also what the experts are saying.

Well, that's dumb. We have the best of the best. We also have a president that is willing to shut down the border when a foreign threat is identified.

 

[Lakhota]

Trump is responsible for the severity in U.S.

 

[Norman]

Trump is responsible for the severity in U.S.

Are you not paying attention? Because of Trump's actions Europe, not US is the epicenter now.

 

[BS Filter]

To pay taxes you would have to work first. Colluding in American elections is not work.

Wow, your psychic ability baffles me. You can see from behind a computer screen that I don't work?

Chances are I work more hours a year than most people on this board, but hey regale me some more with your insights. Who knows maybe someday you'll guess right.

Where do you live?

Belgium

You don't have socialist healthcare.

We have a healthcare system largely financed by taxes. State-run hospitals. Government-controlled prices for medicine etc. etc. Most countries that you consider having socialized healthcare have some version of this.

And most of your citizens have private health insurance, huh.

 

[BS Filter]

Trump is responsible for the severity in U.S.

Propaganda. Thousands died during the H1N1 virus along with 1800 children while Obama played golf.

 

[Lakhota]

Trump is responsible for the severity in U.S.

Propaganda. Thousands died during the H1N1 virus along with 1800 children while Obama played golf.

Quick, look over there! Funny...

 

[BS Filter]

Trump is responsible for the severity in U.S.

Propaganda. Thousands died during the H1N1 virus along with 1800 children while Obama played golf.

Quick, look over there! Funny...

Facts. Less than 50 Americans and no children have died from coronavirus. Your propaganda isn't working.

 

[BS Filter]

Trump is responsible for the severity in U.S.

Propaganda. Thousands died during the H1N1 virus along with 1800 children while Obama played golf.

Quick, look over there! Funny...

Facts. Less than 50 Americans and no children have died from coronavirus. Your propaganda isn't working.

You're very sick, mentally ill.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The outcome depends on flattening the curve. Socialized healthcare has nothing to do with it.

Do you see that "health-care system capacity"?

Are you saying that socialized medicine has nothing to do with the health care system?

Yes, that is what I'm saying. That's also what the experts are saying.

And what experts might those be?

 

[Norman]

The outcome depends on flattening the curve. Socialized healthcare has nothing to do with it.

Do you see that "health-care system capacity"?

Are you saying that socialized medicine has nothing to do with the health care system?

Yes, that is what I'm saying. That's also what the experts are saying.

And what experts might those be?

CNN is not experts?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Yep, same thing will happen here if we get to the point we have to ration care because ofn limited bed space, equipment or personnel.

I'm specifically thinking about our local rural hospital. It's been hanging by a thread for years. We have a lot of retired people here who routinely have to travel 80 miles for routine appointments with doctors. We limp along with nurse practitioners and part-time doctors. When that shit gets here we are fucked. We are isolated but we are also a vacation destination. There are millions of Americans that are at the mercy of already stressed medical services with no reserve capacity.

Yeah, this would obviously exasperate the problem. Also, federal help (which isn't a given anymore) is going to arrive at population centers first which is a form of rationing.

Yes, I didn't even mention that we have four ambulances for the whole county and takes a minimum of 2 1/2 - 3 hours to transport someone to a real hospital. Also our closest big hospital is still at diminished capacity due to being fucked up in hurricane Michael.

Occupied, sounds like you have found your country.

Now nothing is stopping you from leaving the country for a nation you prefer. Oh but you prefer it here, just like the Belgian dude who prefers it in the US message board over Belgian message board... huh...

I am just saying how it is in Trump country. Living in the sticks is cool and all but as we learned after hurricane Michael, Trump does not care that much about Trump country.

Well just for your information, this is Trump country:

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Italy is facing serious challenges, with demand for critical care far outstripping supply. Health officials there are having to make very difficult decisions about who to treat – in the knowledge that deciding not to treat will very likely lead to death.

On Thursday the Italian College of Anesthesia, Analgesia, Resuscitation and Intensive Care, issued guidelines advising doctors how to deploy scarce resources when the need for them is outstripped by the demand of critically ill patients. The guidelines state that priority should be given to those who have, first, “greater likelihood of survival and, second, who have more potential years of life”.

As a result, patients with underlying conditions and elderly patients, who are deemed to stand less chance of surviving the virus, may not be treated in favour of healthier and/or younger people who have more chance of recovery.

In the coming months we may face a similar situation in the UK where we do not have the resources necessary to treat all people who will catch Covid-19. So how do healthcare professionals decide who to treat?

Coronavirus may force UK doctors to decide who they’ll save | Jonathan Ives

Very frightening indeed. If you have chronic illnesses or are elderly, what would be going through your mind if you were diagnosed with COVID 19 in Italy, and possibly the entire UK down the road? As a person with both problems, I can tell you I would be scared Shtless.

But I don't have to worry about that, because I'm in the United States, and in the United States, we don't have socialized medical care. If I would unfortunately get the virus, I know I'll be well cared for. If my 88 year old father would get the virus, I know he will be well cared for. Same for my 86 year old mother.

It has already been stated by several health and medical experts that the U.S. may reach the same crisis of having to ration and triage between life and death. Socialized healthcare has nothing to do with it. It's all about resources and supply and demand.

We have more and better resources than anybody in the world. We attract the best medical professionals from around the world as well.

The very first step is prevention, which we are making headway very quickly. Technology is the second, which again, we are processing tests faster and faster. Trump instituted a travel ban, Governors across the country are asking places to close down or greatly reduce the amount of customers. We are canceling college classes and even grade school switching over to video educating in it's place.

You don't sound overly informed. Let's hope that none of our elderly loved ones end up on a cot in a tent - or worse.

That's not likely. While these other countries stuff as many beds in a room as they can, they have no room to expand in the event of an emergency. Most of our hospital rooms are two beds and even single bed private rooms, all of which can accommodate more beds in the event of a national emergency. So nobody is going to be treated in a tent.

Furthermore if such a thing were to happen, our doctors would treat the most vulnerable as a priority instead of like they're doing in Italy which is to write them off like a tax deduction. That means our elderly and those with serious medical conditions have a chance because that's how we prioritize.