Zone1 Should men and women be considered completey and absolutey, by all measures, "equal"?

[frackapisa]

Only as far as rights under the Constitution.

Republicans believe that if men don't have a right to get an abortion under the constitution, then neither should women.

 

[Curried Goats]

There's nothing wrong with using someone's own logic against them. It's not a bad faith argument. You could have defeated my argument by admitting that men can't get pregnant or that you don't believe that trans-men are men. Trans-men can obviously get pregnant because they're not men; they're just disfigured insane women. In any case, you seem to be conceding that trans-men are not men. This is true progress.

I did defeat your argument by explaining to you that trans men are biological women. Are you still confused about that? Do you require further education?

So let's deal with what is the crux of your argument; that pregnant women are being denied the equal right to self-defense from unwanted force. This "unwanted force" phrase is problematic. I'm sure criminals don't want force used against them by the police.

Which means what? They are criminals in your scenario. By definition as criminals they've forfeited their legal right to not be apprehended and detained by police.

Businesses don't want force used against them by government regulators.

That's too bad. Owning and operating a business is a privilege, hence the need for a license.

Taxpayers don't want force used against them by the IRS.

Also too bad. That falls under the social contract. If you don't want to deal with society then fuck off into the woods and live off the land.

Thieves don't want force used against them by their victims.

Then they shouldn't of violated their victims rights.

So far none of these are very impressive arguments.

There are many instances where we, collectively, understand that unwanted force is acceptable.

Yes, in protection of others people's rights.

So there is no right to be free from unwanted force.

There is unless you forfit that right by violating the rights of others, like thieves and criminals.

I think you would agree, unless you're an anarcho-pacifist.

I agree you tried to liken pregnant people to criminals.

 

[frackapisa]

equal?

Men and women typically have different bone structures, hormones, organ sizes, genitalia, genetics… and only one can become pregnant.

That’s not equal at all. They are different. Different is the antonym of equal

They are equal in all ways that they can be treated equally. After all, all men aren't equal either, but constitutionally they are treated as equals.
All males, 18 and over have to register for selective service, yet only half of them would actually meet the qualifications for induction.

 

[LeroyDumonde]

I agree you tried to liken pregnant people to criminals.

Only when they try to kill babies.

 

[Curried Goats]

Only when try try to kill babies.

As I covered previously, self defense from unwanted physical force is a perfectly legal and just action.

 

[LeroyDumonde]

As I covered previously, self defense from unwanted physical force is a perfectly legal and just action.

Not when violating the law.

 

[Curried Goats]

Not when violating the law.

When is self defense a violation of the law?

 

[LeroyDumonde]

When is self defense a violation of the law?

When using it against a law enforcement officer operating under the law, or the color of the law.

 

[Curried Goats]

When using it against a law enforcement officer operating under the law, or the color of the law.

How does that equate to abortion? Are you having trouble concentrating on the topic?

 

[Stryder50]

I havent seen many women out on construction sights doing the heavy lifting,,

and the ones I have seen milk off of the men until they cant even do that anymore,,

And they (dames) often come to us with: "Can you get the lid off this jar for me?"

Here's a not thick, but informative read/book to consider. BTW, it's not just a human thing. As this book points out, the gender differences are common to nearly all animal species.

Brain Sex: The Real Difference Between Men and Women​

Anne Moir, Ph.D., David Jessel
Random House Publishing Group, Aug 1, 1992 - Psychology - 256 pages
Why can't a woman be more like a man? What is this thing called "feminine intuition"? Why are men better at reading maps, and women at other people's characters? The answers lie in the basic biological differences between the male and female brain, which, say the authors, make it impossible for the sexes to share equal emotional or intellectual qualities.

Brain Sex

Why can't a woman be more like a man? What is this thing called "feminine intuition"? Why are men better at reading maps, and women at other people's characters? The answers lie in the basic biological differences between the male and female brain, which, say the authors, make it impossible for...

books.google.com

An interesting and quick test from the book;
file:///C:/Users/lviol/Downloads/sidelines_17071.pdf

 

[LeroyDumonde]

How does that equate to abortion? Are you having trouble concentrating on the topic?

Women can go get abortions whenever they like. Even in deep red states.

 

[Curried Goats]

Women can go get abortions whenever they like. Even in deep red states.

They can?

 

[AZrailwhale]

When using it against a law enforcement officer operating under the law, or the color of the law.

Even then it's not a violation of the law. It's just very hard to prove self-defense against a LEO.

 

[LeroyDumonde]

They can?

Yes. They may not be able to do it legally, but they can.

 

[Curried Goats]

Yes. They may not be able to do it legally, but they can.

And thus you are confirming my argument that they lack an equal right to self defense from unwanted physical force. Thank you.

 

[Wiggle_Piggy]

They are equal in all ways that they can be treated equally. After all, all men aren't equal either, but constitutionally they are treated as equals.
All males, 18 and over have to register for selective service, yet only half of them would actually meet the qualifications for induction.

Nobody is talking about constitutionally or the law. I’m talking “equal”.. as in the same, no general differences… which is what modernism seems to desire

 

[sparky]

And thus you are confirming my argument that they lack an equal right to self defense from unwanted physical force

Lack?

i dont mean to offtrack the OP , but this is where i feel it necessary

Because this is where nature dictates equality

Why? because there is no force in God's universe as strong (lb for lb) than a mother's love


~S~

 

[Wiggle_Piggy]

And they (dames) often come to us with: "Can you get the lid off this jar for me?"

Here's a not thick, but informative read/book to consider. BTW, it's not just a human thing. As this book points out, the gender differences are common to nearly all animal species.

Brain Sex: The Real Difference Between Men and Women​

Anne Moir, Ph.D., David Jessel
Random House Publishing Group, Aug 1, 1992 - Psychology - 256 pages
Why can't a woman be more like a man? What is this thing called "feminine intuition"? Why are men better at reading maps, and women at other people's characters? The answers lie in the basic biological differences between the male and female brain, which, say the authors, make it impossible for the sexes to share equal emotional or intellectual qualities.

Brain Sex

Why can't a woman be more like a man? What is this thing called "feminine intuition"? Why are men better at reading maps, and women at other people's characters? The answers lie in the basic biological differences between the male and female brain, which, say the authors, make it impossible for...

books.google.com

An interesting and quick test from the book;
file:///C:/Users/lviol/Downloads/sidelines_17071.pdf

This kind of knowledge is ironclad in the behavioural psychology universe… only recently have woke radical activists, and mainstream Democrats, taken kooky conspiracies by a pervert in the 1960’s and supported his “gender theory” into where it is today.

 

[Captain Caveman]

Men and women, when measured in mass, have extremely different bodily functions, thus different biological psychologies, and thus when left to their own choices... have significantly different outcomes.

Is it right to attempt to socially engineer those differences out of existance? And if those attempts create horrible results, is it moral to continue to push?

The data/polls seem to say that single, successful women are overall decreasing in happiness. The leftist view of women partaking in the male behavior of transactionally-sexual, and being used as a sex object appears to be un-fulfilling to women in the long run.

Yet, the feminist movement continues to push for women to follow their immediate urges to be rammed through while they have their youth, in their prime... which harms their value to quality value men, who seek chastity.

Unless you're ignorant of the mass data... men and women generally seek different things in partners. Women seek a provider, someone who can offer resources, security, and leadership. Men seek women who are agreeable, physically attractive, kind, and supportive. These have been established roles acrossed nearly all historical cultures throughout the globe... it's biological based on sex.

Modern third-wave feminism is trying to convince women to suppress this natural urge... to take on masculinity, and obsess about being providers... to be disagreeable and try to aggressively overcompensate to positions of leadership even if unnecessary.

This convinces women to actually become unattractive to men, as men aren't attracted to women who assume uber-masculine traits.

Then.. these women go on social media, or all media, and complain that there's no good men out there. No, there's plenty of good men, it's just that third-wave-feminists view men as antagonists rather than in a historical manner of trying to find a mate/partner they can support. Feminism is causing massive sorrow to women, who find out too late that the drive/career they were convinced by our society they wanted doesn't deliver the happiness they were promised. Behavioral psychology dictates that overall children/family make both males/females happier later in life, but espeically females.

Yet, major media/celebrities continue to convince youthful women to "not settle' and go out and F as many people as they please.. and to "Slay Queen!" (and if you have children, have the sacrament of abortion!). This acts completely against behavioral psychology, and sadly only accomadates the worst of men. While men are capable of restrictive emotion sex, women aren't nearly as able.. and it leads to depression and the feeling of being used.

But the drive for sex pushes onward on the left. They want to F now, and not worry about the results, because they feel judged. The truth is, Ms. "I feel judged" Feminist".. if you want to be whore, go ahead.. but don't try to convince young girls to follow you. It's not virtuous, and it will likely lead them to sorrow and despair. Please grow up and be an adult, Ms. angry feminist.

Men and women are not equal. All men are not equal to other men, all women are not equal to other women.

The only thing you can strive for is fairness. This equality lark is nonsense.

 

[sparky]

Men and women are not equal. All men are not equal to other men, all women are not equal to other women.

The only thing you can strive for is fairness. This equality lark is nonsense.

quit tryin' to make sense Cap....~S~