Should Black Degrees be Equally Valued?

[IanC]

especially in elite universities, and other school that practise AA, blacks are admitted with markedly lower qualifications, receive lower grades and pass independent qualification exams at a lower rate than other groups. is it reasonable to give them the same credit for a diploma when the chances are that they will underperform? would you chose a black doctor or lawyer knowing that they were close to the bottom of their class?

This is crap. I'm currently finishing my BA now and you are telling me that blacks under perform. I'm working my butt off. And I didn't get into college with lower qualification or grades than whites.

Where are you getting this crap from?

sorry that I didn't get back to you on that earlier post. there was a lot of interesting info about admissions qualifications and performance rates for undergrads at U of Michigan because of the court case a few years ago. I haven't been able to track down the actual graphs because the links were lost when the MSN message board closed down. but I will keep looking when I have time.

to show that I am not just talking out of my butt, here is a link to an article in the Wall Street Journal by Gail Herriot, of the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights. http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110010522

Mr. Sander's original article noted that when elite law schools lower their academic standards in order to admit a more racially diverse class, schools one or two tiers down feel they must do the same. As a result, there is now a serious gap in academic credentials between minority and non-minority law students across the pecking order, with the average black student's academic index more than two standard deviations below that of his average white classmate.

Not surprisingly, such a gap leads to problems. Students who attend schools where their academic credentials are substantially below those of their fellow students tend to perform poorly.

The reason is simple: While some students will outperform their entering academic credentials, just as some students will underperform theirs, most students will perform in the range that their academic credentials predict. As a result, in elite law schools, 51.6% of black students had first-year grade point averages in the bottom 10% of their class as opposed to only 5.6% of white students. Nearly identical performance gaps existed at law schools at all levels. This much is uncontroversial.

while you may be going to a University that does not (officially) give preferences, many do. and those that do give preferences, give large ones, at least in all the reports that I have seen. and the graduation rates show the difference.


the crazy thing is that no one hears about this. Bok's 'The Shape of the River' gets publicized and quoted in the press but the scholarly rebuttals of the methods and conclusions of that book are ignored.


I think most people want AA to continue in some form, I know I do. but the defacto quotas that are in effect now are not really working, so even no preferences at all might be a better choice.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

especially in elite universities, and other school that practise AA, blacks are admitted with markedly lower qualifications, receive lower grades and pass independent qualification exams at a lower rate than other groups. is it reasonable to give them the same credit for a diploma when the chances are that they will underperform? would you chose a black doctor or lawyer knowing that they were close to the bottom of their class?

Hold all to the same standards and honour all degrees equally


I thought blacks wanted equality?

 

[☭proletarian☭]

would anyone prefer the NFL to be racially proportional just to be politically correct? .

No. If more Blacks meet the physical requirements for the sport than other races, then let the NFL have more black players than other races like the NBA.

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Taboo-Athletes-Dominate-Sports-Afraid/dp/1891620398]Amazon.com: Taboo : Why Black Athletes Dominate Sports and Why We're Afraid to Talk About It (9781891620393): Jon Entine, Earl Smith: Books[/ame]

 

[☭proletarian☭]

especially in elite universities, and other school that practise AA, blacks are admitted with markedly lower qualifications, receive lower grades and pass independent qualification exams at a lower rate than other groups. is it reasonable to give them the same credit for a diploma when the chances are that they will underperform? would you chose a black doctor or lawyer knowing that they were close to the bottom of their class?

I do have concerns over degrees supposedly earned by racists. How can they actually have done the work for a college degree and still graduate as racist assholes? Do racists get special treatment from racist professors? Does a degree awarded to a racist actually count?
Why should I get the same diploma as some asshole racist? Doesn't that degrade the integrity of my degree?

'RACIST!
RACIST!
RACIST!
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RACIST!
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RACIST!
RACIST!
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RACIST!
RACIST!
RACIST!
RACIST!
RACIST!'

is not a refutation, it's crying.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

They still have to make the grade. Just because they were offered a placement, does not guarantee their diploma.

do you think there is a difference in quality between doctors who finish top 10% and those in the bottom 10%? if you choose a black doctor you are statistically likely to get a bottom rather than a top performer. do you think it is reasonable to make a choice for your personal well being based on knowledge that is 'hatefact'? are you willing to put your health at some (presumably small) risk to benefit affirmative action?

My wife is black and an MD

She finished in the top 1% of her class.

Kind of blows your whole stereotype to pieces

Outliers are present in all things and do not render the pattern meaningless.

Your wife should be upset about practices which cause people to question her qualifications because so many others are not held to the same standard because they share her skin color.

Skilled, intelligent Blacks should abhor AA.

 

[Shogun]

Of course they should be equally valued. Even if AA gets a minority IN school that doesn't mean that they get a pass in the standard course requirements because of their ethnicity.

 

[IanC]

thanks, I'm glad someone sees the idiocy of crying 'racist' instead of debating issues.


another quote from the WSJ article above--

Mr. Sander has his critics--some thoughtful, some just strident--but so far none has offered a plausible alternative explanation for the data. Of course, Mr. Sander doesn't need to be proven 100% correct for his research to be devastating news for affirmative-action supporters.

 

[IanC]

Of course they should be equally valued. Even if AA gets a minority IN school that doesn't mean that they get a pass in the standard course requirements because of their ethnicity.

remember the controversy and lawsuits over giving education majors the CBEST before certifying them to teach in California? more than half of the black education graduates couldn't pass the test although it was only at a grade 10 or 11 level.

 

[Ravi]

would anyone prefer the NFL to be racially proportional just to be politically correct? .

No. If more Blacks meet the physical requirements for the sport than other races, then let the NFL have more black players than other races like the NBA.

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Taboo-Athletes-Dominate-Sports-Afraid/dp/1891620398"]Amazon.com: Taboo : Why Black Athletes Dominate Sports and Why We're Afraid to Talk About It (9781891620393): Jon Entine, Earl Smith: Books[/ame]

This stuff is so retarded. WHO is afraid to talk about it? Or more importantly, who cares?

 

[☭proletarian☭]

. WHO is afraid to talk about it?

They mostly cry when the same sciences prove the mental superiority of the White race over the Blacks.

 

[IanC]

would anyone prefer the NFL to be racially proportional just to be politically correct? .

No. If more Blacks meet the physical requirements for the sport than other races, then let the NFL have more black players than other races like the NBA.

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Taboo-Athletes-Dominate-Sports-Afraid/dp/1891620398"]Amazon.com: Taboo : Why Black Athletes Dominate Sports and Why We're Afraid to Talk About It (9781891620393): Jon Entine, Earl Smith: Books[/ame]

This stuff is so retarded. WHO is afraid to talk about it? Or more importantly, who cares?

I haven't read the book but I do remember a coach who was fired a few years ago because he said his school should lower the academic requirements for atheletes, so they could, errr, ahem, get some fast black guys.

 

[Samson]

would anyone prefer the NFL to be racially proportional just to be politically correct? .

No. If more Blacks meet the physical requirements for the sport than other races, then let the NFL have more black players than other races like the NBA.

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Taboo-Athletes-Dominate-Sports-Afraid/dp/1891620398"]Amazon.com: Taboo : Why Black Athletes Dominate Sports and Why We're Afraid to Talk About It (9781891620393): Jon Entine, Earl Smith: Books[/ame]

This stuff is so retarded. WHO is afraid to talk about it? Or more importantly, who cares?

Who cares: Simple people.

People who cannot handle the mental dexterity necessary to evaluate others based on their individual characteristics, and find it expedient to blame entire populations for their own individual faults, problems, ill-fortune, or whatever their pussy-selves cannot accept responsibility.

 

[Ravi]

. WHO is afraid to talk about it?

They mostly cry when the same sciences prove the mental superiority of the White race over the Blacks.

There is no science that proves such a thing. There are "scientists" that claim they have proof but it is nonexistent.

Physical ability and mental ability are two different animals.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Every scientific study ever done shows differences in average IQ and brain size between the major races.

 

[Samson]

Every scientific study ever done shows differences in average IQ and brain size between the major races.

I need to apply for a $100,000 grant to determine if an Average Elephant is smarter than an Average white cracker.

 

[IanC]

. WHO is afraid to talk about it?

They mostly cry when the same sciences prove the mental superiority of the White race over the Blacks.

There is no science that proves such a thing. There are "scientists" that claim they have proof but it is nonexistent.

Physical ability and mental ability are two different animals.

I disagree somewhat to claim 'superiority' either for physical or mental abilities. I do claim that various mental and physical traits can be tested. and the results for different races can be plotted on a normal curve and the standard deviation calculated. depending on the group average and the standard deviation predictions can be made on how many outliers each group will have at the extremes. someone who is 4 or 5 std higher than average, and access to training will have a good chance of being notable. perhaps a NFL wide receiver or a Harvard math professor.

 

[Ravi]

Every scientific study ever done shows differences in average IQ and brain size between the major races.

Brain size has nothing to do with intelligence and IQ is subjective.

 

[IanC]

Every scientific study ever done shows differences in average IQ and brain size between the major races.

I need to apply for a $100,000 grant to determine if an Average Elephant is smarter than an Average white cracker.

an elephant's brain/body ratio is much less than a human's. asian brain/body ratio is greater than caucasian brain/body ratio which in turn is greater than negroid brain/body ratio.

 

[Samson]

Every scientific study ever done shows differences in average IQ and brain size between the major races.

Brain size has nothing to do with intelligence and IQ is subjective.

Are you trying to kill my grant?

Damnit Ravi, the government is printing lots of money, and we (me in particular) need to study this critical issue!!

 

[IanC]

Every scientific study ever done shows differences in average IQ and brain size between the major races.

Brain size has nothing to do with intelligence and IQ is subjective.

we have been through this before. IQ is proportional to competence. brain size (some specific areas more than others) is proportional to IQ.

links have previously been provided