Why Replace DEI With MEI When 'Merit' Has Been a CONDITION of Federal Employment Per the 'Merit Systems Protection Board' (MSPB) Since 1978?

[Lisa558]

What’s omitted is that the qualifying standards were reduced in 1978 making it easier for anyone to qualify in order to accommodate a more diverse field, thereby justifying selection based on race. It undermines true merit.
Prior to 1978, the USPS, for example, would only hire those who scored between 80% and 90% on the clerk/carrier exam in order to justify hiring more blacks. Two brothers in my neighborhood took the test together in 1975. One scored 98% the other 85%. Guess which one was hired.

The black one.

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

The black one.

These were actual siblings and not bruthas.

 

[Lisa558]

These were actual siblings and not bruthas.

So I don’t get it. Are you saying that the guy who scored lower got the job? Jeez.

Can’t wait until we go back to hiring based on merit.

 

[Lisa558]

These were actual siblings and not bruthas.

But as long as we’re chatting, guess which one of the following two got the promotion when a job opened up?

1) The one who had worked for the agency for several years, and had a grad degree.

2) The one who had just been hired six months earlier, and had a high school diploma, and whom the one above trained.

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

So I don’t get it. Are you saying that the guy who scored lower got the job? Jeez.

Can’t wait until we go back to hiring based on merit.

Yes. The sibling with the lower score was hired because his score fit within the range where enough blacks scored to justify the hiring pattern.
The tests were simplified in 1978 in order to make sure everyone scored high enough to enable the race-based hiring pattern.

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

But as long as we’re chatting, guess which one of the following two got the promotion when a job opened up?

1) The one who had worked for the agency for several years, and had a grad degree.

2) The one who had just been hired six months earlier, and had a high school diploma, and whom the one above trained.

Assuming number 2 was not a white male, I’ll go with 2.

 

[Lisa558]

Yes. The sibling with the lower score was hired because his score fit within the range where enough blacks scored to justify the hiring pattern.
The tests were simplified in 1978 in order to make sure everyone scored high enough to enable the race-based hiring pattern.

Sort of like TJ High School dropping its entrance exam because not enough blacks were meeting the cut-off. Now that they abolished the exam requirement, there are more blacks - but the school dropped from #1 in the nation to #15.

 

[Lisa558]

Assuming number 2 was not a white male, I’ll go with 2.

Bingo. Number 1 was my friend and passed over for the black high school grad. My friend sued for discrimination, and she won her case after two years. She received the promotion, the black woman was demoted, and my friend received two years’ pay differential.

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

Sort of like TJ High School dropping its entrance exam because not enough blacks were meeting the cut-off. Now that they abolished the exam requirement, there are more blacks - but the school dropped from #1 in the nation to #15.

It’ll continue to drop as those who make it exceptional will move.

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

Bingo. Number 1 was my friend and passed over for the black high school grad. My friend sued for discrimination, and she won her case after two years. She received the promotion, the black woman was demoted, and my friend received two years’ pay differential.

Don’t see that outcome very often.

 

[Lisa558]

It’ll continue to drop as those who make it exceptional will move.

It was an excellent opportunity for brilliant kids whose families could not afford a prestigious private. Now it’s been watered down and much less meaningful.

 

[Lisa558]

Don’t see that outcome very often.

My friend didn’t give up. Plus, it was SO BLATANT.

I know of a second one, also in government. My friend was in her 50s at the time and a rare GS-14 opened up. She had worked for the agency for 20 years, and the idiot boss said…..get this…..”I’m don’t want an old fogey like you” - and he said it in front of a witness! Ehat an idiot. And then he hired some young’un, who was MUCH less qualified.

That friend also sued, and it was the same outcome - got the job and differential in pay.

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

It was an excellent opportunity for brilliant kids whose families could not afford a prestigious private. Now it’s been watered down and much less meaningful.

Happens every time.
When a school succeeds, those who don’t succeed insist that they be allowed to attend that school, thinking that dropping a kid at a school will automatically produce a reverend/doctor/lawyer without any intellectual skill or parental input necessary.

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

My friend didn’t give up. Plus, it was SO BLATANT.

I know of a second one, also in government. My friend was in her 50s at the time and a rare GS-14 opened up. She had worked for the agency for 20 years, and the idiot boss said…..get this…..”I’m don’t want an old fogey like you” - and he said it in front of a witness! Ehat an idiot. And then he hired some young’un, who was MUCH less qualified.

That friend also sued, and it was the same outcome - got the job and differential in pay.

I need to retain your friends’ lawyers.

 

[Dragonlady]

The information below resulted from an inquiry I made about Trump/Musk/Ramaswamy et al having publicly stated that they were going to issue a "return to work" mandate in order to get half of the federal workforce to quit, thereby saving them the expenses of severance packages and unemployment benefits which workers are not entitled to if they quit instead of having been fired.

I found the following information to be quite informative.

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Merit in Federal Hiring: Untangling DEI and Affirmative Action Myths​

Since the passage of the Civil Service Reform Act of 1978 (CSRA), federal hiring and promotion practices have been grounded in a system that emphasizes merit. This means that qualifications, skills, and performance are the decisive factors in determining who is hired or promoted within the federal government. The Merit Systems Protection Board (MSPB), which oversees these processes, exists to ensure adherence to these principles, safeguarding federal employees from arbitrary, politically motivated, or discriminatory actions.​

​

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Federal Hiring Is Merit-Based, Not Demographic-Based​

The core tenet of the CSRA is that federal employees must be hired and promoted based on their abilities and qualifications, not their demographic characteristics. This has been the law for nearly half a century. Despite this clear legislative foundation, critics often perpetuate the narrative that Black Americans and other underrepresented groups in the federal workforce have advanced solely due to affirmative action or DEI initiatives.​

​

Let’s unpack this misconception:​

1. What Affirmative Action and DEI Actually Do:
   • These programs aim to ensure opportunity by eliminating barriers that historically excluded qualified individuals from competing for jobs.
   • They focus on creating fair hiring and promotional practices, not on bypassing merit for the sake of demographics.
2. Merit and Diversity Are Not Contradictory:
   • The existence of DEI programs does not negate the merit-based system. Rather, these programs level the playing field, allowing diverse candidates to demonstrate their qualifications in spaces from which they were previously excluded.
   • The CSRA ensures that federal hiring is fair and competitive, so no candidate, regardless of race, is selected without meeting the necessary qualifications.

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Historical Context: Before and After Civil Rights Legislation​

Before the Civil Rights Act of 1964, discriminatory practices systematically excluded Black Americans and other minority groups from opportunities in federal employment and beyond. Affirmative action and DEI initiatives were introduced to dismantle these barriers—not to give unqualified individuals an advantage, but to ensure that qualified individuals were no longer excluded due to race, gender, or other factors.​

• Affirmative Action's Purpose: It opened doors to candidates who had previously been shut out due to discriminatory practices, enabling them to compete on an equal footing.
• Post-1978 Federal Hiring: With the CSRA in place, federal employees have been evaluated and selected based on their ability to meet job requirements.

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The "Merit" in Merit Systems Protection Board​

The very name of the Merit Systems Protection Board underscores the principle that federal employees are evaluated and retained based on their merit.​

• Irony in the DEI Backlash:
  • Critics argue that affirmative action or DEI somehow bypass merit, yet the MSPB explicitly safeguards merit in hiring decisions.
  • This contradiction reveals a fundamental misunderstanding of the relationship between diversity programs and merit-based hiring.

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Reframing the Narrative​

Rather than framing affirmative action and DEI as mechanisms for bypassing qualifications, it’s essential to recognize their role in ensuring equal access. Here’s the reality:​

• Everyone hired into the federal government since 1978 has been subject to a merit-based hiring system.
• Affirmative action and DEI do not diminish qualifications; they amplify fairness, ensuring qualified individuals from all backgrounds have an equal opportunity to compete.

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Conclusion​

To suggest that Black Americans or other underrepresented groups "only got their jobs because of affirmative action" is to ignore both the legislative history of the CSRA and the reality of federal hiring practices. It dismisses the qualifications, hard work, and dedication of federal employees, whose employment has been governed by merit for nearly 50 years. Affirmative action and DEI are not antithetical to merit—they ensure that merit has a chance to shine across all demographics, unclouded by bias or systemic exclusion.​

​

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SOURCES​

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1. Federal Hiring and Promotion Based on Merit​

The Civil Service Reform Act of 1978 (CSRA) established that federal employment decisions must be based on merit, ensuring that qualifications, skills, and performance are the primary criteria for hiring and promotion.​

• Source: Civil Service Reform Act of 1978 | U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission

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2. Role of the Merit Systems Protection Board (MSPB)​

The Merit Systems Protection Board was created to oversee and enforce merit-based hiring practices, protecting federal employees from arbitrary actions and ensuring adherence to merit system principles.​

• Source: The Merit System Principles: Guiding the Fair and Effective Management of the Federal Workforce

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3. Affirmative Action and Equal Opportunity​

Affirmative action and Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) initiatives aim to provide equal opportunities by removing barriers that historically excluded qualified individuals from federal employment. These programs do not grant unqualified individuals positions but ensure that all qualified candidates have a fair chance to compete.​

• Source: Affirmative Action - U.S. Department of Labor

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4. Addressing Misconceptions​

The misconception that Black individuals or other minorities are hired solely due to affirmative action overlooks the merit-based framework established by the CSRA. Affirmative action ensures equal access to opportunities, allowing all qualified individuals to compete fairly.​

• Source: Affirmative action | Definition, History, & Cases | Britannica

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5. Historical Context​

Prior to the Civil Rights Act of 1964, discriminatory practices excluded minorities from federal employment. Affirmative action and DEI initiatives were introduced to dismantle these barriers, ensuring that qualified individuals from all backgrounds have the opportunity to compete based on merit.​

• Source: A Brief History of Affirmative Action - University of California, Irvine

The bald fact is that Republicans will lie, deceive and misrepresent everything being done by Democrats to ensure equality, because Republicans don't want "equality", they want a white male oligarchy. White men get all the good jobs. The non-whites are here to serve the dominant race.

Their anti-abortion stance has NOTHING to do with the morality of terminating a viable pregnancy, but rather to force WHITE WOMEN to have more babies. White people are not reproducing in numbers large enough to maintain the all or mostly white populations in Europe or North America.

Both Russia and Hungary have lost millions of mostly young, well educated adults, with skills that are highly marketable in the first world. Their populations are declining and aging.

The ONLY way for majority white nations to continue to grow and expand is non-white immigration. The demand for ambitious, educated workers is growing, and authoritarian dictatorships which limit personal speech and freedoms, are seeing their young adults leaving and not returning.

America is fast becoming the South Africa of the free world. Not surprising that so many white South African billionaires are behind it. Elon Musk, Peter Thiele, David Sacks (Trump's new AI and Crypto czar). All were partners in PayPal, and now all investing heavily to influence American elections.

Patrick Soon-Shiong, another South African billionaire, worked in Trump's last administration on Operation Warp Speed.

It's not surprising that the wealthy South Africans would seek to remake the USA into Apartheid South Africa. No wonder Musk keeps getting sued for racist toxic workplaces.

The first thing he did when he took over X was to get rid of all of the perks and benefits for the workers, and drive out the best people. X has been a glitchy disaster ever since.

Wait so now liberals are acknowledging DEI hiring is a practice?

Stick to your kiddy toys. If you didn't bother to read the OP, you shouldn't bother to comment.

 

[Dragonlady]

Sort of like TJ High School dropping its entrance exam because not enough blacks were meeting the cut-off. Now that they abolished the exam requirement, there are more blacks - but the school dropped from #1 in the nation to #15.

Every time you post, you embarass yourself with your complete idiocy. You immediately assume that the school is no longer number 1, because of the black students attending instead of the real reason - excluding anyone who might bring their scores down.

When you cherry pick your students so that you only accept top ranked students in the first place, it's easy to pretend your school is the best. These kids would succeed regardless of where they went to school.

There are more than 95,000 primary schools in the USA, and this one isn't #1 because they were an all white school. They were #1 because they wouldn't let ANYONE in would cause their scores to go down.

In other words, Lisa, you'd never be accepted. You have no critical thinking skills at all.

 

[Tyrion234]

The bald fact is that Republicans will lie, deceive and misrepresent everything being done by Democrats to ensure equality, because Republicans don't want "equality", they want a white male oligarchy. White men get all the good jobs. The non-whites are here to serve the dominant race.

Their anti-abortion stance has NOTHING to do with the morality of terminating a viable pregnancy, but rather to force WHITE WOMEN to have more babies. White people are not reproducing in numbers large enough to maintain the all or mostly white populations in Europe or North America.

Both Russia and Hungary have lost millions of mostly young, well educated adults, with skills that are highly marketable in the first world. Their populations are declining and aging.

The ONLY way for majority white nations to continue to grow and expand is non-white immigration. The demand for ambitious, educated workers is growing, and authoritarian dictatorships which limit personal speech and freedoms, are seeing their young adults leaving and not returning.

America is fast becoming the South Africa of the free world. Not surprising that so many white South African billionaires are behind it. Elon Musk, Peter Thiele, David Sacks (Trump's new AI and Crypto czar). All were partners in PayPal, and now all investing heavily to influence American elections.

Patrick Soon-Shiong, another South African billionaire, worked in Trump's last administration on Operation Warp Speed.

It's not surprising that the wealthy South Africans would seek to remake the USA into Apartheid South Africa. No wonder Musk keeps getting sued for racist toxic workplaces.

The first thing he did when he took over X was to get rid of all of the perks and benefits for the workers, and drive out the best people. X has been a glitchy disaster ever since.




Stick to your kiddy toys. If you didn't bother to read the OP, you shouldn't bother to comment.

You do know that blacks then Hispanics have the two highest abortion ratios yeah?

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Read this and recognize that you benefitted from DEI.

Since the passage of the Civil Service Reform Act of 1978 (CSRA), federal hiring and promotion practices have been grounded in a system that emphasizes merit. This means that qualifications, skills, and performance are the decisive factors in determining who is hired or promoted within the federal government. The Merit Systems Protection Board (MSPB), which oversees these processes, exists to ensure adherence to these principles, safeguarding federal employees from arbitrary, politically motivated, or discriminatory actions.

This means no one black is being given an advantage.

DEI = Less for straight white men

Duh

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Every time you post, you embarass yourself with your complete idiocy. You immediately assume that the school is no longer number 1, because of the black students attending instead of the real reason - excluding anyone who might bring their scores down.

When you cherry pick your students so that you only accept top ranked students in the first place, it's easy to pretend your school is the best. These kids would succeed regardless of where they went to school.

There are more than 95,000 primary schools in the USA, and this one isn't #1 because they were an all white school. They were #1 because they wouldn't let ANYONE in would cause their scores to go down.

In other words, Lisa, you'd never be accepted. You have no critical thinking skills at all.

Glass is shattering. Every time YOU post you’re embarrassing yourself, dragon breath.

 

[Lisa558]

Every time you post, you embarass yourself with your complete idiocy. You immediately assume that the school is no longer number 1, because of the black students attending instead of the real reason - excluding anyone who might bring their scores down.

When you cherry pick your students so that you only accept top ranked students in the first place, it's easy to pretend your school is the best. These kids would succeed regardless of where they went to school.

There are more than 95,000 primary schools in the USA, and this one isn't #1 because they were an all white school. They were #1 because they wouldn't let ANYONE in would cause their scores to go down.

In other words, Lisa, you'd never be accepted. You have no critical thinking skills at all.

I don’t “assume” the school is no longer #1. It was reported it was #15 after losing standards for blacks and Latinos.

Also, every time you post you show your ignorance and anti-white racism. The school was never majority white, and certainly not ALL white. It was 70% Asian, because the Asians kids are the smartest overall and also the most disciplined and studious, as a whole.

And yes, of COURSE they were #1 because they wouldn’t admit weaker students and instead held to a very high standard. Once the libs in that county decided there were too many Asians (racism right there) and too few blacks and Latinos (because they couldn’t make the cut), they lowered standards. The result, as expected, is that letting weaker stidents in lowers the overall score of the school. Duh.

The people hurt are the Asians. But as we know, libs are fine with racism toward successful minorities.