Seniors Go Ahead and Die already!!

[Navy1960]

SEC. 1233. ADVANCE CARE PLANNING CONSULTATION.
6 (a) MEDICARE.—
7 (1) IN GENERAL.—Section 1861 of the Social
8 Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1395x) is amended—
9 (A) in subsection (s)(2)—
10 (i) by striking ‘‘and’’ at the end of
11 subparagraph (DD);
12 (ii) by adding ‘‘and’’ at the end of
13 subparagraph (EE); and
14 (iii) by adding at the end the fol15
lowing new subparagraph:
16 ‘‘(FF) advance care planning consultation (as
17 defined in subsection (hhh)(1));’’; and
18 (B) by adding at the end the following new
19 subsection:
20 ‘‘Advance Care Planning Consultation
21 ‘‘(hhh)(1) Subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), the
22 term ‘advance care planning consultation’ means a con
23sultation between the individual and a practitioner de
24scribed in paragraph (2) regarding advance care planning,
25 if, subject to paragraph (3), the individual involved has

1 not had such a consultation within the last 5 years. Such
2 consultation shall include the following:
3 ‘‘(A) An explanation by the practitioner of ad4
vance care planning, including key questions and
5 considerations, important steps, and suggested peo6
ple to talk to.
7 ‘‘(B) An explanation by the practitioner of ad8
vance directives, including living wills and durable
9 powers of attorney, and their uses.
10 ‘‘(C) An explanation by the practitioner of the
11 role and responsibilities of a health care proxy.
12 ‘‘(D) The provision by the practitioner of a list
13 of national and State-specific resources to assist con
14sumers and their families with advance care plan
15ning, including the national toll-free hotline, the ad
16vance care planning clearinghouses, and State legal
17 service organizations (including those funded
18 through the Older Americans Act of 1965).
19 ‘‘(E) An explanation by the practitioner of the
20 continuum of end-of-life services and supports avail
21able, including palliative care and hospice, and bene
22 fits for such services and supports that are available
23 under this title.
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h3200ih.txt.pdf

This section of the House bill deals with Advance planning and basically says to Seniors that rather than provide medical care , under the bill those under Medicare are entitled to consultation and other services. , basically just go ahead and die!! It's this sort of thing that is buried deep in the bill that people in their zeal for personal comfort would willingly hand over to the Govt.

 

[editec]

SEC. 1233. ADVANCE CARE PLANNING CONSULTATION.
6 (a) MEDICARE.—
7 (1) IN GENERAL.—Section 1861 of the Social
8 Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1395x) is amended—
9 (A) in subsection (s)(2)—
10 (i) by striking ‘‘and’’ at the end of
11 subparagraph (DD);
12 (ii) by adding ‘‘and’’ at the end of
13 subparagraph (EE); and
14 (iii) by adding at the end the fol15
lowing new subparagraph:
16 ‘‘(FF) advance care planning consultation (as
17 defined in subsection (hhh)(1));’’; and
18 (B) by adding at the end the following new
19 subsection:
20 ‘‘Advance Care Planning Consultation
21 ‘‘(hhh)(1) Subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), the
22 term ‘advance care planning consultation’ means a con
23sultation between the individual and a practitioner de
24scribed in paragraph (2) regarding advance care planning,
25 if, subject to paragraph (3), the individual involved has

1 not had such a consultation within the last 5 years. Such
2 consultation shall include the following:
3 ‘‘(A) An explanation by the practitioner of ad4
vance care planning, including key questions and
5 considerations, important steps, and suggested peo6
ple to talk to.
7 ‘‘(B) An explanation by the practitioner of ad8
vance directives, including living wills and durable
9 powers of attorney, and their uses.
10 ‘‘(C) An explanation by the practitioner of the
11 role and responsibilities of a health care proxy.
12 ‘‘(D) The provision by the practitioner of a list
13 of national and State-specific resources to assist con
14sumers and their families with advance care plan
15ning, including the national toll-free hotline, the ad
16vance care planning clearinghouses, and State legal
17 service organizations (including those funded
18 through the Older Americans Act of 1965).
19 ‘‘(E) An explanation by the practitioner of the
20 continuum of end-of-life services and supports avail
21able, including palliative care and hospice, and bene
22 fits for such services and supports that are available
23 under this title.
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h3200ih.txt.pdf

This section of the House bill deals with Advance planning and basically says to Seniors that rather than provide medical care , under the bill those under Medicare are entitled to consultation and other services. , basically just go ahead and die!! It's this sort of thing that is buried deep in the bill that people in their zeal for personal comfort would willingly hand over to the Govt.

Interesting intreptation of it.

I thought it was saying that one should encourage people to have advance care planning (one presumes one might want to do that just in case you end up a vegetable).

I didn't see the "go ahead and die" part.

Would you kind enough to point out what you read there that you're interpeting as meaning "go ahead and die", please?

Thanks

 

[Emma]

This section of the House bill deals with Advance planning and basically says to Seniors that rather than provide medical care , under the bill those under Medicare are entitled to consultation and other services. , basically just go ahead and die!! It's this sort of thing that is buried deep in the bill that people in their zeal for personal comfort would willingly hand over to the Govt.

No, it says that Medicare will reimburse a provider if they have an advanced care consultation with their client (and sets out the guidelines of what constitutes said consultation). There is no obligation for the provider to do so, it's not mandatory, and Medicare will not pay for this more often than once every 5 years (except in certain circumstances).

Much ado about nothing.

 

[paperview]

The propaganda mills have been working hot and heavy on this one.

 

[Skull Pilot]

but how will we leave the old people on ice floes to die alone when global warming is melting them faster than people are aging?

Now i know why Obama is so hot to stop climate change.

 

[Navy1960]

On page 425 it says in black and white that by amending the SSA Act, there is a requirement for advance planning directive counseling every 5 years. These sessions which while on the surface may appear harmless in nature they single out Seniors and make no such requirement of everyone else that is on the so called "public option" Thus the reason the message is quite clear, by cutting Medicare which we all know that is mostly a vehicle used for Seniors and taking that in conjunction with this section of the House bill its very clear what the intentions are and thats to offer advice through counsolers on the best ways to end your life rather to offer the best ways to provide care which is more of a money saving feature rather than a healthcare issue. So you wanted to know there you have it. While others may see this as some innocent and well meaning passage that just offers services to Seniors, it clearly does not and by amending the SSA it does as my orginal statment says. In fact in order for the bill to become law it has within it so many instances where existing laws are amended that its unlikely that a public option will ever withstand a constitutional challenge.

 

[Emma]

The propaganda mills have been working hot and heavy on this one.

Yep.

 

[Modbert]

Navy, this is a real epic fail on your part.

PolitiFact | McCaughey claims end-of-life counseling will be required for Medicare patients

The same exact part you quote, and all.

I'm going to rate your rant: Pants on Fire

And to further show your fail at believing in the Right Hype.

Jon Keyserling, general counsel and vice president of public policy for the National Hospice and Palliative Care Organization, which supports the provision, said the bill doesn't encourage seniors to end their lives, it just allows some important counseling for decisions that take time and consideration.

"These are very serious conversations," he said. "It needs to be an informative conversation from the medical side and it needs to be thought about carefully by the patient and their families."

"Neither of us can come to the conclusion that it's mandatory." he said. "This new consultation is just like all in Medicare: it's voluntary."

"The only thing mandatory is that Medicare will have to pay for the counseling," said Dau.

To the Conspiracy Theories this thread should go.

 

[AllieBaba]

These sessions which while on the surface may appear harmless in nature they single out Seniors and make no such requirement of everyone else that is on the so called "public option" Thus the reason the message is quite clear, by cutting Medicare which we all know that is mostly a vehicle used for Seniors and taking that in conjunction with this section of the House bill its very clear what the intentions are and thats to offer advice through counsolers on the best ways to end your life rather to offer the best ways to provide care which is more of a money saving feature rather than a healthcare issue.

Exactly. It's about getting seniors in there so they can be bullied into opting out of life.

 

[Emma]

On page 425 it says in black and white that by amending the SSA Act, there is a requirement for advance planning directive counseling every 5 years.

No it doesn't. The only thing required is that Medicare pay for it if billed by the provider, and they won't do that but once every 5 years. The doc can discuss this with their patient every week if they want to... but they aren't going to get paid for the consultation but every 5 years.

 

[Modbert]

Exactly. It's about getting seniors in there so they can be bullied into opting out of life.

*Reads that sentence three times to make sure.*

Exactly. This is you talking straight out of your ass with no evidence of any such thing.

 

[Navy1960]

*laughs* you social engineers make me laugh sometimes really and I find your debates if anything entertaining. However, the epic fail part because the head of some National Hospice group says its not what it is? Well I guess you told me huh? If you had bothered to read the whole thing Robert you would have seen that its about amending the SSA to make those requirements and thus leading Seniors into those sessions rather than letting them make whatever decisions they want to make on their own. At the risk of not repeating myself for all you who have no clue on the constitution, I will simply point you to the page in the legislation where the language is contained. If you choose to see that as an innocent then by all means be my guest.

 

[xotoxi]

This section of the House bill deals with Advance planning and basically says to Seniors that rather than provide medical care , under the bill those under Medicare are entitled to consultation and other services. , basically just go ahead and die!! It's this sort of thing that is buried deep in the bill that people in their zeal for personal comfort would willingly hand over to the Govt.

Actually, it does not say this at all.

It is a clause that encourages seniors to take their head out of the sand, and have a conversation with their doctor about end of life issues.

It might surprise you, but we all are going to die someday. And some people don't want to be stuffed with tubes and attached to machines when that time comes.

 

[xotoxi]

Navy, this is a real epic fail on your part.

PolitiFact | McCaughey claims end-of-life counseling will be required for Medicare patients

The same exact part you quote, and all.

I'm going to rate your rant: Pants on Fire

And to further show your fail at believing in the Right Hype.

Jon Keyserling, general counsel and vice president of public policy for the National Hospice and Palliative Care Organization, which supports the provision, said the bill doesn't encourage seniors to end their lives, it just allows some important counseling for decisions that take time and consideration.

"These are very serious conversations," he said. "It needs to be an informative conversation from the medical side and it needs to be thought about carefully by the patient and their families."

"Neither of us can come to the conclusion that it's mandatory." he said. "This new consultation is just like all in Medicare: it's voluntary."

"The only thing mandatory is that Medicare will have to pay for the counseling," said Dau.

To the Conspiracy Theories this thread should go.

Agreed!

 

[xotoxi]

Exactly. It's about getting seniors in there so they can be bullied into opting out of life.

Just like circumcision is the only thing that distinguishes boys from animals.

 

[AllieBaba]

Exactly. It's about getting seniors in there so they can be bullied into opting out of life.

*Reads that sentence three times to make sure.*

Exactly. This is you talking straight out of your ass with no evidence of any such thing.

You know I learned that from you and bobo.

But it's there in black and white. You want to deny it, go for it. But you're just proving (again) that you're lacking in comprehension.

 

[Navy1960]

Sec. 1861. [42 U.S.C. 1395x] For purposes of this title—

Spell of Illness
(a) The term “spell of illness” with respect to any individual means a period of consecutive days—

(1) beginning with the first day (not included in a previous spell of illness) (A) on which such individual is furnished inpatient hospital services, inpatient critical access hospital services or extended care services, and (B) which occurs in a month for which he is entitled to benefits under part A, and

(2) ending with the close of the first period of 60 consecutive days thereafter on each of which he is neither an inpatient of a hospital or critical access hospital nor an inpatient of a facility described in section 1819(a)(1) or subsection (y)(1).
Social Security Act §1861

 

[strollingbones]

damn right when i start getting my senior discount..this comes along

do you want to live forever...some chick in some really bad conan movie...i am sure one of the guys knows

 

[AllieBaba]

They will ignore and misconstrue it because it doesn't fit with their concept of what it REALLY means.

Never mind that it's actually written out. Just like they spent all the election running around telling us what Obama REALLY meant. And it wasn't what he was saying....

 

[Modbert]

*laughs* you social engineers make me laugh sometimes really and I find your debates if anything entertaining. However, the epic fail part because the head of some National Hospice group says its not what it is? Well I guess you told me huh? If you had bothered to read the whole thing Robert you would have seen that its about amending the SSA to make those requirements and thus leading Seniors into those sessions rather than letting them make whatever decisions they want to make on their own. At the risk of not repeating myself for all you who have no clue on the constitution, I will simply point you to the page in the legislation where the language is contained. If you choose to see that as an innocent then by all means be my guest.

Do you know what Hospice is Navy? I assume you do.

For those of you who do not know, Hospice lets those who want to end their life, end it peacefully. They don't kill them, but if they get sick, that person does not get treatment while a Hospice nurse comes by, and helps you best he/she can to be in peace to the end.

So, if the one of the heads of Hospice in this country says it's not requiring Seniors to end their lives then I'm going to take his conclusion over someone on the internet who simply wouldn't want this bill to pass ever. While the person who doesn't want this bill to pass will find EVERY SINGLE LITTLE THING they can think they can use in trying to rip this bill's credibility to shreds. Whether it's true or not.