Zone1 Scriptures you find baffling

[nomadic5]

Ok, there's this scripture (the first baffling one that comes to my mind) about how we are to pray incessantly (those words are actually mentioned in Thessalonians, not this one I speak of first)

This psg is on where Jesus is telling this parable about the persistent widow. The widow wants some kind of vindication, we don't know what the problem was but she keeps pestering the judge and he, though he fears not God or man, gives in to what she wants, saying he will do so

"lest she strike me."

OK, the Judge is a metaphor for Christ and/or the Father.

So my question is: How can anyone "strike God"???!!



OK, here is the DR version where there is no mention of her striking the judge, but only the judge saying "lest she wear me out."

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◄ Luke 18 ►

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Douay-Rheims Bible Parable of the Persistent Widow 1And he spoke also a parable to them, that we ought always to pray and not to faint, 2Saying: There was a judge in a certain city, who feared not God nor regarded man. 3And there was a certain widow in that city; and she came to him, saying: Avenge me of my adversary. 4And he would not for a long time. But afterwards he said within himself: Although I fear not God nor regard man, 5Yet because this widow is troublesome to me, I will avenge her, lest continually coming she weary me. 6And the Lord said: Hear what the unjust judge saith. 7And will not God revenge his elect who cry to him day and night? And will he have patience in their regard? 8I say to you that he will quickly revenge them. But yet the Son of man, when he cometh, shall he find, think you, faith on Earth?

 

[Meriweather]

Ok, there's this scripture (the first baffling one that comes to my mind) about how we are to pray incessantly (those words are actually mentioned in Thessalonians, not this one I speak of first)

This psg is on where Jesus is telling this parable about the persistent widow. The widow wants some kind of vindication, we don't know what the problem was but she keeps pestering the judge and he, though he fears not God or man, gives in to what she wants, saying he will do so

"lest she strike me."

OK, the Judge is a metaphor for Christ and/or the Father.

So my question is: How can anyone "strike God"???!!

The Judge is not a metaphor for either Christ or the Father. In Jesus' day, if a matter went before Jewish courts, there were three judges. Rome (and sometimes Herod) appointed single judges for outlying areas. These judges were so notorious for ruling in favor of those who paid them off that they were known as "robber judges".

Jesus;' parable told of a poor widow, who naturally had no money with which to bribe the "robber judge", but what she did have was persistence. She was constantly on him to grant her justice, even threatening to give him a black eye/shut his eye. This mean threatening to hit someone...or come upon them while they were asleep to insure they never woke up. In any case, the woman's persistence and determination wore him out, and so despite the fact she had no money with which to bribe him, he decided in her favor. The widow had to wait a long time before her plea was answered, but it was answered.

Jesus' point is that God is just and one who loves and decides favorably for His children. Sometimes, just like in court cases, it takes time to work things out. God does not work like a genii with a blink of an eye or the snap of fingers. He works perfectly--and perfection takes time. Jesus' asks when he comes, will he find any people of faith with as much persistence and determination there will be a ruling in their favor? Or, will he find people who gave up on God long before and followed other pursuits instead?

 

[luiza]

How do you explain the fact that he was never crucified ?
His mutilated and near dead body was paid for by Joseph of Arimathea and thereafter the whole Resurrection story becomes invented gobbledygook .
A huge fairy story cobbled together decades after events and in the image of Paul’s prejudices and concocted dogma . Imho

 

[Meriweather]

How do you explain the fact that he was never crucified ?
His mutilated and near dead body was paid for by Joseph of Arimathea and thereafter the whole Resurrection story becomes invented gobbledygook .
A huge fairy story cobbled together decades after events and in the image of Paul’s prejudices and concocted dogma . Imho

What is it you do believe about Jesus? It seems you believe he actually lived? You do believe New Testament mention of Joseph of Arimathea?

 

[EvilCat Breath]

How do you explain the fact that he was never crucified ?
His mutilated and near dead body was paid for by Joseph of Arimathea and thereafter the whole Resurrection story becomes invented gobbledygook .
A huge fairy story cobbled together decades after events and in the image of Paul’s prejudices and concocted dogma . Imho

You were there and should know.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

What is it you do believe about Jesus? It seems you believe he actually lived? You do believe New Testament mention of Joseph of Arimathea?

He only believes in using whatever he can to cause doubt. He believes in nothing

 

[nomadic5]

The Judge is not a metaphor for either Christ or the Father. In Jesus' day, if a matter went before Jewish courts, there were three judges. Rome (and sometimes Herod) appointed single judges for outlying areas. These judges were so notorious for ruling in favor of those who paid them off that they were known as "robber judges".

Jesus;' parable told of a poor widow, who naturally had no money with which to bribe the "robber judge", but what she did have was persistence. She was constantly on him to grant her justice, even threatening to give him a black eye/shut his eye. This mean threatening to hit someone...or come upon them while they were asleep to insure they never woke up. In any case, the woman's persistence and determination wore him out, and so despite the fact she had no money with which to bribe him, he decided in her favor. The widow had to wait a long time before her plea was answered, but it was answered.

Jesus' point is that God is just and one who loves and decides favorably for His children. Sometimes, just like in court cases, it takes time to work things out. God does not work like a genii with a blink of an eye or the snap of fingers. He works perfectly--and perfection takes time. Jesus' asks when he comes, will he find any people of faith with as much persistence and determination there will be a ruling in their favor? Or, will he find people who gave up on God long before and followed other pursuits instead?

I would agree w/ all of this if it weren't for your first sentence where you say that the Judge is not a metaphor for Christ or the Father.

This was a parable about being persistent in prayer, never giving up... No? Do you agree w/ that? Please answer Y or N

Do we pray to human judges?

 

[nomadic5]

How do you explain the fact that he was never crucified ?
His mutilated and near dead body was paid for by Joseph of Arimathea and thereafter the whole Resurrection story becomes invented gobbledygook .
A huge fairy story cobbled together decades after events and in the image of Paul’s prejudices and concocted dogma . Imho

You are obviously mis-informed!

big time

 

[nomadic5]

You were there and should know.

LOL

None of us was there but we do have the ancient writings and the Church that put them together in the 4th century, now called the New Testament.

 

[luiza]

You are obviously mis-informed!

big time

If only.
The walls will all come tumbling down once it is realised .
It is just one basic hard fact that will hasten the end of this Cult Religion .
Your Jesus almost certainly ended his days in around AD 62 when preaching across Asia Minor with his eldest son .

Similar in a way to that other Cult leader , Adolf, who ended his days around the same age in Patagonia and leader of the Fourth Reich with one of its main centres in the US .

 

[nomadic5]

If only.
The walls will all come tumbling down once it is realised .
It is just one basic hard fact that will hasten the end of this Cult Religion .
Your Jesus almost certainly ended his days in around AD ---

I read this far.

Jesus is the most real and beautiful "thing" ever to be on this planet and He is still here

I pray you find Him. You will never find Him in any greater way than in His Real (tangible, felt) Presence found only in HIS Church, the Catholic Church.

I'm so thankful He did not abandon us because of Vatican II!

I was unwittingly "stupid" to think that He would (in any way, shape or form), but I have been enlightened.

God has His ways of correcting His children... very mysterious ways...

 

[JustAGuy1]

How do you explain the fact that he was never crucified ?
His mutilated and near dead body was paid for by Joseph of Arimathea and thereafter the whole Resurrection story becomes invented gobbledygook .
A huge fairy story cobbled together decades after events and in the image of Paul’s prejudices and concocted dogma . Imho

Honey? Prove it.

 

[luiza]

I read this far.

Jesus is the most real and beautiful "thing" ever to be on this planet and He is still here

I pray you find Him. You will never find Him in any greater way than in His Real (tangible, felt) Presence found only in HIS Church, the Catholic Church.

I'm so thankful He did not abandon us because of Vatican II!

I was unwittingly "stupid" to think that He would (in any way, shape or form), but I have been enlightened.

God has His ways of correcting His children... very mysterious ways...

At the end of the day I care little for other people’s opinions in this area knowing they have never even done cursory research .
But as long as Cultists do little harm to others I am broadly happy to give them free rein .
I understand how important a Cult belief is for the lonely and unfulfilled in particular and how believers find a point to life and an imagined happy ending if you work hard .
Is a lovely fairy tale if you do not look hard and do not research what happened as opposed to what Paul , elder brother James and a few other less bright souls like Peter wanted to be true .

 

[nomadic5]

At the end of the day I care little for other people’s opinions in this area knowing they have never even done cursory research .
But as long as Cultists do little harm to others I am broadly happy to give them free rein .
I understand how important a Cult belief is for the lonely and unfulfilled in particular and how believers find a point to life and an imagined happy ending if you work hard .
Is a lovely fairy tale--------

you just can't conceive of Jesus being REAL to someone. You think he is just someone we read about in a book. Well, for Protestants, maybe..

Catholics are not protestant...

 

[luiza]

Honey? Prove it.

Hard slog research looking at all available sources and looking at the Dead Sea Scrolls and other material discovered at around the same time —- immediate post WW2 .
Don’t forget to look at every possible source excluded from bible inclusion in the fourth century AD by those who sought to separate the State from everything else with the Emperor having dominion over all .

 

[JustAGuy1]

Hard slog research looking at all available sources and looking at the Dead Sea Scrolls and other material discovered at around the same time —- immediate post WW2 .
Don’t forget to look at every possible source excluded from bible inclusion in the fourth century AD by those who sought to separate the State from everything else with the Emperor having dominion over all .

My degree is in Theology, you have no idea as to how Biblically illiterate you are. You can't prove it and we both know it.

 

[Meriweather]

Do we pray to human judges?

Etymology of pray: Ask earnestly, beg, or entreat.

Checking the Comparative Study Bible, I see three of the translation are, "A widow came (to the judge) saying..." The fourth translation is "A widow kept coming to him with the plea for justice..."

Jesus was telling this parable "to show that at all times they ought to pray and not to lose heart" or give up or not to faint, turn coward, give up.

I am not sure how you reached the conclusion that that the woman was praying to the judge as she would pray to God. Jesus' point was persistence. He certainly was not making the point the Father is a robber judge.

 

[nomadic5]

Etymology of pray: Ask earnestly, beg, or entreat.

Checking the Comparative Study Bible, I see three of the translation are, "A widow came (to the judge) saying..." The fourth translation is "A widow kept coming to him with the plea for justice..."

Jesus was telling this parable "to show that at all times they ought to pray and not to lose heart" or give up or not to faint, turn coward, give up.

I am not sure how you reached the conclusion that that the woman was praying to the judge as she would pray to God. Jesus' point was persistence. He certainly was not making the point the Father is a robber judge.

No, I came to the conclusion that YOU think she was praying to a human judge. The parable is about persistent PRAYER and how it is answered eventually.

Period

Complicating things and acting like you have to be a certifiable theologian is NOT helping anyone.

All some people do is twist and distort what Jesus said, as though only people with an IQ of 160 and/or a degree from some prestigious college can understand His Words...

not!

 

[Meriweather]

No, I came to the conclusion that YOU think

Well, you know what they say about jumping to conclusions about others...it is simply the point where you stop thinking. Perhaps read what I actually wrote...and for that matter what Jesus actually said. No one needs a degree of any kind for that.

 

[nomadic5]

Well, you know what they say about jumping to conclusions about others...it is simply the point where you stop thinking. Perhaps read what I actually wrote...and for that matter what Jesus actually said. No one needs a degree of any kind for that.

It doesn't look like you give a rat's behind what JESUS actually said...