Zone1 Catholics (real ones) do NOT go against Scripture or add to it. It's a lie.

[The Irish Ram]

You should focus more on your relationship with God than you do with concerning yourself with religious dogma. Your arguments are straw-men of your own making. No one is creating false idols. I'm not discussing praying to the sun. I'm discussing praying to God and your bearing false witness to that practice.

My rebuttals are scripture. Using scripture for the purposes given below:

2 Timothy 3:16-17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
If someone's opinion is contrary to scripture, then using scripture for reproof is what we are suppose to do.

I think all the saints can hear our prayers to God. Why do you believe they can't? Are they not in communion with God?

I know that is what you think. My opinion vs your's means nothing. One's opinion vs scripture is how to get to the truth. Here is my response to your question:

Isaiah 8:19-20 19When men tell you to consult the spirits of the dead and the spiritists who whisper and mutter, shouldn’t a people consult their God instead? Why consult the dead on behalf of the living?
20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, they have no light of dawn.

 

[sparky]

There is nothing that Catholics do that seriously contradicts Scripture. It just is not true.

easy peasy given they wrote it fork......~S~

 

[Meriweather]

It was an OUTLINE, not meant to be endlessly repeated.

If you are a true Christian, God is your literal FATHER. Endless rituals are unnecessary when speaking to your Father.

I was hoping this would be the response! Even as an outline, The Lord's Prayer is a prayer all denominations repeat. Since its outline is easy to understand, perhaps one can also understand that all the numerous and different meditations that are part of the rosary. Only the deaf and blind imagine a prayer being repeated, ignorant of all else, smug in their imagined superiority over Catholic prayer, meditation, and contemplation.

 

[Meriweather]

Exactly right and it never ceases to amaze me that some people seem to PREFER all the religious mumbo jumbo, which is the very thing that Jesus condemned repeatedly.

To repeat: Only the deaf and blind see and hear "mumbo jumbo" and bask in their smugly imagined sense of superiority over Catholic prayer practices.

 

[buttercup]

I think all the saints can hear our prayers to God. Why do you believe they can't? Are they not in communion with God?

Where is the scriptural evidence for that? Where is any evidence for that? But here's the thing. Even if that were true, we are specifically told to not communicate with those who have passed, and we are specifically told that there is only ONE mediator between God and man, Jesus.

Why do some of you insist on going directly against what the bible says, on this and other things?

 

[Meriweather]

Jesus set the perfect example. He simply spoke to His Father as a good son would speak to his father and had confidence that His Father was listening.

And you imagine Catholics don't do that as well. Imagine an enriched prayer life...

 

[Meriweather]

Yep, just as He set the example for water baptism as believers, as opposed to infant baptism, which in another thing the RCC and some protestant churches have failed to follow.

Perhaps parents should wait until their children are of a certain age before they become part of the family.

 

[noonereal]

I am not just a Catholic, I am an informed one. I have read the Bible and I have studied Church history and history in general.

The road to knowledge is science. Seems you took a different road.

 

[buttercup]

Perhaps parents should wait until their children are of a certain age before they become part of the family.

Completely ridiculous false equivalence.

Water baptism is an outward expression of a real true change that has taken place inside a person. It is for BELIEVERS. It is a picture of going from death to life!

A baby obviously cannot make that decision or understand any of it, not to mention the fact that Jesus is our example and infant baptism is a mere religious thing, not biblical!

 

[Meriweather]

Completely ridiculous false equivalence.

Think about it. Parents are members of the family of God, the Body of Christ, but their children are not? The children are not being brought up and taught the ways of God and the Kingdom? They are mere outsiders, looking on?

 

[buttercup]

Think about it. Parents are members of the family of God, the Body of Christ, but their children are not? The children are not being brought up and taught the ways of God and the Kingdom? They are mere outsiders, looking on?

Look, there's nothing wrong with baby dedication. THAT actually has some scriptural support.

But infant baptism is something else entirely. Maybe you are trying to conflate the two?

 

[surada]

Ephesians 6:12 For our fight is not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, and against spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.​

^ Because that is where the the fight is!
And there is more written about the end times and how to recognize that time than any other time in history, including Christ's visitation. There is actually a blessing given by God for understanding the era we are in.

Knowledge doesn't remove awesomeness of belief and faith. It enhances it.

The Darbyites promoted a futuristic version of the "end times" that contradicts scripture. Later that was picked up by Cyrus Scofield and Hal Lindsey.

 

[surada]

Look, there's nothing wrong with baby dedication. THAT actually has some scriptural support.

But infant baptism is something else entirely. Maybe you are trying to conflate the two?

What church do you attend?

 

[buttercup]

Think about it. Parents are members of the family of God, the Body of Christ, but their children are not?

If a child dies below the age of accountability he will go to heaven BUT here's what you're not grasping. Once that child gets older, there is no guarantee he or she is going to be a believer and follower of Christ, so that child that you are claiming is "in the family" is actually NOT in the family forever until he or she makes the decision himself!

Sprinkling water on a baby has nothing to do with salvation, and again, a baby cannot make that decision, and you can't make that decision for someone else.

 

[buttercup]

What church do you attend?

I'm not interested in having a discussion about Schofield and dispensationalism and all that. I don't agree with most of the things he promoted. That should be enough for you. Thanks.

 

[Meriweather]

If a child dies below the age of accountability he will go to heaven BUT here's what you're not grasping. Once that child gets older, there is no guarantee he or she is going to be a believer and follower of Christ, so that child that you are claiming is "in the family" is actually NOT in the family forever until he or she makes the decision himself!

Sprinkling water on a baby has nothing to do with salvation, and again, a baby cannot make that decision, and you can't make that decision for someone else.

First, scripture doesn't address dying below the age of "accountability". Second there was no guarantee the Prodigal Son would remain with his father, either. Third, if someone can make the decision to join the family, then one can also make the decision to leave the family just as the Prodigal son did. Next: Babies are not "sprinkled". Absolutely I made the decision to raise my family in the ways of salvation and redemption and life in the Kingdom. We're all full members.

If other Christians want to do it another way, no problem at all. Do as you want. But can you do it without telling others they are doing it wrong? The reasons we do it the way we do are just as valid as doing it some other way.

 

[buttercup]

easy peasy given they wrote it fork......~S~

They didn't write the scriptures. They had a part in compiling the books to be included in the Canon, but Christians believe that ultimately it was GOD (not corrupt men) who decided which books were to be included. And God can literally use anyone.

Btw, there are a lot of misconceptions about all of that. I HIGHLY recommend the book 'The Case for Christ' by Lee Strobel. Its an excellent book and super informative.

 

[sparky]

but Christians believe that ultimately it was GOD (not corrupt men) who decided which books were to be included.

You ever hear of the council of Nicaea BC?
~S~

 

[buttercup]

You ever hear of the council of Nicaea BC?
~S~

Yes, re-read what I said. Compiling the books and writing the scriptures are two different things. Again, read that book, it goes over ALL the common misconceptions.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Perhaps parents should wait until their children are of a certain age before they become part of the family.

When a child understands that he is a sinner. When a child can comprehend what took place on the cross. When they are old enough to tell right from wrong. There is no set age.
Baptism is a public profession of a desire to become a follower of Christ. To be reborn into a new life. It takes the consciousnesses of the one being baptized to understand why they want to be baptized.

And yet, while it doesn't meet the criteria of a baptism, I think it probably moves our Father to see parents openly committing the live of their child to Him.

Samson's mother committed her baby to God, and he ended up in God's Hall of Faith. Hebrews Chapter 11.