Zone1 Satan

[Votto]

OK here's the real and honest truth...

MAN CREATED GOD.

Then what you mean is, man is the real dick?

Right?

 

[Dadoalex]

It’s the yin and yang. God created satan because you can’t have the light without darkness. Satan is a necessity to virtue.

Man created god.
Man created satan.

When you cone to accept these facts the world makes more sense.

 

[Votto]

Man created god.
Man created satan.

When you cone to accept these facts the world makes more sense.

Say it enough times and maybe you will start to believe it.

But at the end of the day, we all assign ourselves a savior and a devil

Let me guess, your savior is Left wing government to save you from climate change, and your devil is Christian white nationalists, whatever the hell that is, just because.

 

[Dadoalex]

God only unleashed his anger on the wicked.

Do you agree with the teaching an eye for an eye?

So everyone on earth except Noah's family was wicked?
Every animal except for those Noah bought on the ark were wicked?

Every male infant in Egypt was evil?

God's a dick.

and

No. I'm more in line with letting Karma set things right.

 

[Dadoalex]

Zombies is what man wants. Man just wants slave labor to do his bidding as man cares nothing about them

We have example after example of this, but then comes along a man like Moses who comes to set them free.

So if I'm not __________________(fill in your favorite monotheistic religion) I go to hell.

God demands unquestioned belief and obedience
God demands zombies.

If god is all powerful and God wants everyone to believe and obey...
Why doesn't god just wave his all powerful hand and make it so?

Because God Can't

 

[Dadoalex]

Then what you mean is, man is the real dick?

Right?

Sure.

Just like man to blame poor old god for torturing Job.
For murdering Lot's wife.
For murdering almost everyone on earth.

 

[Moonglow]

Say it enough times and maybe you will start to believe it.

But at the end of the day, we all assign ourselves a savior and a devil

Let me guess, your savior is Left wing government to save you from climate change, and your devil is Christian white nationalists, whatever the hell that is, just because.

There is no savoir you are just a speck in the universe.

 

[Dadoalex]

Say it enough times and maybe you will start to believe it.

But at the end of the day, we all assign ourselves a savior and a devil

Let me guess, your savior is Left wing government to save you from climate change, and your devil is Christian white nationalists, whatever the hell that is, just because.

I have no savior.
I need no savior.

"God" has no power unless you give it.

God did not create man, man evolved.

At the time of Christ few outside the mediterranean basin had ever hear of "God"
Why? Wasn't god powerful enough to tell the Asians, Inuits, or even the Finns about himself?

There is not "God"
There is just people living in fear looking for comfort.

I don't recall where, think it was the Iliad, but it was said the greek gods lost their powers when people stopped believing.

Your "God" has no power over me.

 

[Blues Man]

The real issue is, why is there suffering if God is all knowing and all powerful?

To begin with, it makes no sense to me thinking there is no God. There are two main issues, why does the material universe exist, and why does life exist?

The universe is fine tuned, so much so it is absurd to think it happened on its own.

The Argument From Cosmic Fine Tuning

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crossexamined.org

And to think that life just came about on its own is absurd is almost more absurd to me, since we see life nowhere else in the universe.



To think that a God need not be all powerful to create and maintain such order is equally absurd to me, because that is what it would take to accomplish all this and still be fine tuned for the rest of eternity.

So, why is their suffering? Is God a God of love like the Bible says? The Bible also says that man is made in the image of God, but what does that mean? Whatever it means, there is one truth here and that is whatever we personally create is a reflection of us. When we look at a car made, for example, it reflects our intelligence level, our needs, are desires, and what matters most to us. Looking at human beings, what makes us tick? Without love, our lives are empty and meaningless, so it would logically be assumed that the creator of human beings had a similar need and want. That is why the idea of a God creating everything and walking away indifferently also makes no sense to me because that is not how we are wired.

But what is love? We would like to think that there should be no downside to love, it should all be good, however, to have a loving mutual relationship, two parties are required to have the ability to love or reject the other. There is no love in forcing others to love you back or it is not love. But this allows for pain and suffering, at least for one or both parties. Sin is simply the rejection of the love of God which inevitably throws a wrench into the fine-tuned universe. Why does God allow this? If you were "all powerful" and knew everything, what relevance would creation have to you if you controlled all of it unless you enjoy playing tic tac toe with yourself all day. Allowing a sliver of your power to be surrendered would most likely attract all your attention, even though the power you are surrendering is negligible in the grand scheme of things, and regardless of how negligible those are that you gave such power.

In the Garden of Eden, we see man's fall into sin. Most read through the story without giving it much thought, thinking it to be stupid. But when reading deeper into the story, we see some profound points being made.

Adam and Eve were instructed not to partake of the fruit of one particular tree. That was it. God put it there as a way for them to accept or reject him. But the tree is called something interesting. It is called the tree of knowledge. Most overlook this point which is key because I think the meaning here is that knowledge without wisdom brings death. However, most think that knowledge is harmless. Tell that to Oppenheimer who had the knowledge to create the A-bomb and later quoted as saying, "I have become death". Tell that to those who fear climate change because man had the knowledge to manipulate fossil fuels for their convenience. Tell that to those who fear China releasing a bio terror weapon like Covid again, etc. The most dangerous people on the planet are those who have the more knowledge than wisdom. Those with knowledge can destroy the earth a thousand times over, as where stupid apes in the jungle never will.

I say all this to answer our question because when we read God judging men in Sodom, for example, we have trouble with him deciding to completely destroy them. Abraham also had trouble with it.

20 Then the Lord said, “The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous 21 that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know.”

22 The men turned away and went toward Sodom, but Abraham remained standing before the Lord.[b] 23 Then Abraham approached him and said: “Will you sweep away the righteous with the wicked? 24 What if there are fifty righteous people in the city? Will you really sweep it away and not spare[c] the place for the sake of the fifty righteous people in it? 25 Far be it from you to do such a thing—to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?”

26 The Lord said, “If I find fifty righteous people in the city of Sodom, I will spare the whole place for their sake.”

27 Then Abraham spoke up again: “Now that I have been so bold as to speak to the Lord, though I am nothing but dust and ashes, 28 what if the number of the righteous is five less than fifty? Will you destroy the whole city for lack of five people?”

“If I find forty-five there,” he said, “I will not destroy it.

29 Once again he spoke to him, “What if only forty are found there?”

He said, “For the sake of forty, I will not do it.”

30 Then he said, “May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak. What if only thirty can be found there?”

He answered, “I will not do it if I find thirty there.”

31 Abraham said, “Now that I have been so bold as to speak to the Lord, what if only twenty can be found there?”

He said, “For the sake of twenty, I will not destroy it.”

32 Then he said, “May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak just once more. What if only ten can be found there?”

He answered, “For the sake of ten, I will not destroy it.”

33 When the Lord had finished speaking with Abraham, he left, and Abraham returned home.

Sodom was a place were men ganged raped strangers who entered it, as we see in Genesis. There is a level of wickedness that needs to be exterminated. For example, Russians entering the Nazi death camps simply started hanging people who ran it. What is to say or ask them? There is nothing really to say, but only one thing to do which is exactly what they did, they hung them all on the spot. And perhaps the Nazi regime is our best example of the level of wickedness that simply needs to be eradicated. Mercy and grace has run out on them. At the same time, if all mercy and grace is gone for every sinner, we all die instantly. But if left to their own devices, such evil societies, like Sodom or the Nazi regime would ultimately lead to the destruction of us all if left unchecked.

But it can't continue forever, and that is why I think hell was created. It was created for those who cannot deviate from sin and destruction, for whatever reason. Those who insist on suffering and sin, i.e. the rejection of God who runs the place, will not forever be allowed to impose themselves on the rest of creation to cause them to suffer as well.

All knowing and all powerful do not preclude cruelty.

I think the better question is if a god is all loving and all powerful why does he allow suffering.

 

[Votto]

So everyone on earth except Noah's family was wicked?
Every animal except for those Noah bought on the ark were wicked?

Every male infant in Egypt was evil?

God's a dick.

and

No. I'm more in line with letting Karma set things right.

Was every first born male in Egypt evil?

I presume you mean the angel of death coming to take the lives of the first born of Egypt, the last plague before Egypt let the Hebrew people free from slavery.

Did this happen in a vacuum? It seems to me that Egypt chose to murder the first born of Israel to try and murder the foretold deliverer Moses. You failed to leave that bit out.

Do you think an eye for an eye is justice?

As for Job, God did not send any evil his way, even though he allowed it.

And Job was given twice what he had before after it was all said and done.

God allows some evil to come our way no matter who you are, to various degrees.

 

[Votto]

All knowing and all powerful do not preclude cruelty.

I think the better question is if a god is all loving and all powerful why does he allow suffering.

Again, what is cruelty?

Is it cruel to sentence someone to death for murder, for example?

 

[Votto]

I have no savior.
I need no savior.

"God" has no power unless you give it.

God did not create man, man evolved.

At the time of Christ few outside the mediterranean basin had ever hear of "God"
Why? Wasn't god powerful enough to tell the Asians, Inuits, or even the Finns about himself?

There is not "God"
There is just people living in fear looking for comfort.

I don't recall where, think it was the Iliad, but it was said the greek gods lost their powers when people stopped believing.

Your "God" has no power over me.

The only relevance your beliefs has is on your future, it does not alter reality, just yours.

 

[Votto]

Here is a fun question, what is more cruel

1. Allowing drug dealers to give drugs to the populace killing about 200 people a day

2. Putting the drug dealers to death.

Which one is cruel and which is just?

 

[Dadoalex]

Was every first born male in Egypt evil?

I presume you mean the angel of death coming to take the lives of the first born of Egypt, the last plague before Egypt let the Hebrew people free from slavery.

Did this happen in a vacuum? It seems to me that Egypt chose to murder the first born of Israel to try and murder the foretold deliverer Moses. You failed to leave that bit out.
...

you're rationalizing the murder of infants to defend an imaginary diety.

You are one desperate Christist.

 

[Dadoalex]

The only relevance your beliefs has is on your future, it does not alter reality, just yours.

My reality, is reality.

Your "reality" is a fantasy with magical creatures and evil demons.

 

[Votto]

My reality, is reality.

Your "reality" is a fantasy with magical creatures and evil demons.

No one is able to embrace reality 100% as is.

We all believe wrong things.

However, we shape our destiny by what we believe, our destiny and how our destiny effects others.

Wouldn't you agree?

 

[Votto]

you're rationalizing the murder of infants to defend an imaginary diety.

You are one desperate Christist.

Speaking of infants, God told Abraham to sacrifice his son to him.

Was this cruel? I would say about 100% would say yes, however, during Abraham's day it was common place.

During that time, people worshipped pagan gods, like Molech, in which they sacrificed their children. So, in Abraham's day, this would not be considered an odd request. It was just the opposite, Abraham probably thought it routine due to the culture.

However, God stopped him from doing it, which was a clear message to Abraham and to the people of that time that the God of Abraham does not demand them to kill their children for him like all the other gods demanded.

And why did people sacrifice their children to the gods back then? It was for personal gain, like victory at war, or better crops, or ironically enough, for fertility. Today is no different as the vast number of women who have abortions have them for financial reasons, whether it is to afford that brand new car or career they always wanted. They sacrifice their children to the god of materialism.

So, you see, man has never really changed. Also, this was what God was trying to stop when he had the nation of Israel take the land over.

But you would call me the cruel one as where you are the picture of righteousness, virtue, and enlightenment.

 

[Dadoalex]

No one is able to embrace reality 100% as is.

We all believe wrong things.

However, we shape our destiny by what we believe, our destiny and how our destiny effects others.

Wouldn't you agree?

I believe what I know to be true.
When I express my "beliefs" in this context I say "what I think is..."

 

[Dadoalex]

Speaking of infants, God told Abraham to sacrifice his son to him.

...

But you would call me the cruel one as where you are the picture of righteousness, virtue, and enlightenment.

Thanks. I forgot that time God also was a dick.

Did I call you cruel?
Don't recall that.
I called God a dick.
And I showed again and again that God, by your own documents, is a dick.
Your rationalizing it by saying all the other gods were dicks too isn't exactly a strong argument.

In fact, your point supports my assertion that if there is any such thing as "God" then there are many Gods and they're all dicks.

Except maybe Hephaestus who just reacted to having his wife Aphrodite screwing his brother Ares..

 

[Votto]

Thanks. I forgot that time God also was a dick.

Did I call you cruel?
Don't recall that.
I called God a dick.
And I showed again and again that God, by your own documents, is a dick.
Your rationalizing it by saying all the other gods were dicks too isn't exactly a strong argument.

In fact, your point supports my assertion that if there is any such thing as "God" then there are many Gods and they're all dicks.

Except maybe Hephaestus who just reacted to having his wife Aphrodite screwing his brother Ares..

If you were God, how would you have done things?

I rather enjoyed the movie Bruce Almighty as he was given God's powers for a day or so.