Sandy Koufax vs. Pedro Martinez.

[odanny]

Two of the sports greatest pitchers, almost dead even. Pedro is the better pitcher, his greatest years were 97-03, when offense was better than Koufax era. And Pedro should be wearing a red B on his ball cap

 

[bluzman61]

If Koufax hadn't retired at a VERY young age, he would've obliterated the numbers Martinez put up. For this reason I pick Koufax over Martinez. In fact, he MAY have been arguably the best left-hander ever.

 

[rightwinger]

If Koufax hadn't retired at a VERY young age, he would've obliterated the numbers Martinez put up. For this reason I pick Koufax over Martinez. In fact, he MAY have been arguably the best left-hander ever.

Koufax had to retire due to injury and pitching in pain

Injuries are part of the game

 

[martybegan]

Uhhh...somebody wants in on this conversation.

 

[leftwinger]

the old guys pitched when the mound was Higher by 16" or 18".
Probably had something to do with the great pitchers of the 60s?
You could also pitch inside.

Gibson used to go 9-10 innings no matter what. World Series domination too.
Koufax off the charts on WHIP numbers.

 

[Flash]

If Koufax hadn't retired at a VERY young age, he would've obliterated the numbers Martinez put up. For this reason I pick Koufax over Martinez. In fact, he MAY have been arguably the best left-hander ever.

Major league baseball is really tough on a pitching arm.

Those 1960s era fastballers like Sandy Koufax and Jim Maloney didn't have a really long career.

 

[rightwinger]

Koufax did not face batters on steroids

 

[odanny]

If you look at the number of complete games Bob Gibson had, which is almost every time he pitched, you would be blown away to see someone today even come close to what he accomplished there. It's impossible today, people would break.

 

[rightwinger]

If you look at the number of complete games Bob Gibson had, which is almost every time he pitched, you would be blown away to see someone today even come close to what he accomplished there. It's impossible today, people would break.

It is a different game
HOFs Juan Marichal and Warren Spahn pitched a 16 inning game that ended 1-0

 

[leftwinger]

It is a different game
HOFs Juan Marichal and Warren Spahn pitched a 16 inning game that ended 1-0

A KnuckleBaller used to throw both Double header games. Name escapes me. (wood? wilbur? woodhead?)

 

[odanny]

It is a different game
HOFs Juan Marichal and Warren Spahn pitched a 16 inning game that ended 1-0

Jordan Hicks of the Cardinals can throw 105 mph. He is never healthy, these hard throwers blow tendons out everywhere. It shows it's too hard. Guys as durable as Gibson, pitching as hard and as often as he did? The closest person I can think of is Scherzer, which is durability, effective pitching, and usage, and he aint close. Gibson is in a league of his own.

 

[rightwinger]

Jordan Hicks of the Cardinals can throw 105 mph. He is never healthy, these hard throwers blow tendons out everywhere. It shows it's too hard. Guys as durable as Gibson, pitching as hard and as often as he did? The closest person I can think of is Scherzer, which is durability, effective pitching, and usage, and he aint close. Gibson is in a league of his own.

That is the key difference between the 60s and now

Koufax, Drysdale, Gibson, Marichal did not approach 100 mph
Today, every team has pitchers and relievers who throw 100+
They will throw six or more in an inning

 

[Mr. Friscus]

That is the key difference between the 60s and now

Koufax, Drysdale, Gibson, Marichal did not approach 100 mph
Today, every team has pitchers and relievers who throw 100+
They will throw six or more in an inning

By todays measuring standards Koufax certainly approaches or hits 100.

The Problem is, the on-record speeds of these guys were measured at the plate, while todays are measured like 10-20 ft out from their hand or so. You have to do the math, and homework, to avoid making false claims as you just did.

 

[22lcidw]

A KnuckleBaller used to throw both Double header games. Name escapes me. (wood? wilbur? woodhead?)

Phil Niekro was one of the best knuckleball pitchers.

 

[Synthaholic]

If Koufax hadn't retired at a VERY young age, he would've obliterated the numbers Martinez put up. For this reason I pick Koufax over Martinez. In fact, he MAY have been arguably the best left-hander ever.

Randy Johnson is the best lefty ever, razor-thin over Warren Spahn. Steve Carlton is third.

 

[Synthaholic]

A KnuckleBaller used to throw both Double header games. Name escapes me. (wood? wilbur? woodhead?)

Wilbur Wood of the White Sox.

 

[Synthaholic]

Phil Niekro was one of the best knuckleball pitchers.

I got to meet him at a restaurant/bar my band was playing in. He was sitting at the bar, in town scouting players. Nice as hell but looked really tired. Also, similar situation, different bar, Dave Stewart. He was very forthcoming, telling me that Mark McGwire was a criminally under-rated defensive first baseman, which surprised me. He also had nothing good to say about Jose Canseco.

 

[Synthaholic]

By todays measuring standards Koufax certainly approaches or hits 100.

The Problem is, the on-record speeds of these guys were measured at the plate, while todays are measured like 10-20 ft out from their hand or so. You have to do the math, and homework, to avoid making false claims as you just did.

But Koufax wasn't really known for his fastball. He got people out with his curveball. And his accuracy, like Greg Maddux.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Jordan Hicks of the Cardinals can throw 105 mph. He is never healthy, these hard throwers blow tendons out everywhere. It shows it's too hard. Guys as durable as Gibson, pitching as hard and as often as he did? The closest person I can think of is Scherzer, which is durability, effective pitching, and usage, and he aint close. Gibson is in a league of his own.

except Nolan Ryan.....

 

[Synthaholic]

Lefthanded starters:

Randy Johnson

Warren Spahn

Steve Carlton

Sandy Koufax