Zone1 Did the ADDITION of H2O to Antarctica keep ocean levels stable for centuries?

[Stryder50]

Thing is it's a relative observation lacking modern instrumentation to measure. So not quite an objective bit of data.
Also, factors such as season of the year which reflect axial angle and orbital variations could also cause it to vary.

It might also be a factor of Milankovitich Cycle.
Or translation error.

The term "sevenfold" is vague and lacks adequate context, IMO.
Could be metaphorical ...

Milankovitch cycles describe the collective effects of changes in the Earth's movements on its climate over thousands of years. The phenomenon is named after the Serbian geophysicist and astronomer Milutin Milanković. In the 1920s, he provided a more definitive and quantitative analysis than James Croll's earlier hypothesis that variations in eccentricity, axial tilt, and precession combined to result in cyclical variations in the intra-annual and latitudinal distribution of solar radiation at the Earth's surface, and that this orbital forcing strongly influenced the Earth's climatic patterns.
...

22.1–24.5° range of Earth's obliquity

Axial precessional movement

Planets orbiting the Sun follow elliptical (oval) orbits that rotate gradually over time (apsidal precession). The eccentricity of this ellipse, as well as the rate of precession, are exaggerated for visualization.

Effects of precession on the seasons (using the Northern Hemisphere terms)

Milankovitch cycles - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Stryder50]

Orbital Forcing and Milankovitch Cycles​

1. Overview: Orbital forcing refers to the influence of variations in Earth’s orbit and axial tilt, as described by Milankovitch cycles, on the planet’s climate. These cyclic changes in orbital parameters result in variations in the distribution and intensity of solar radiation reaching Earth. Orbital forcing is a key factor in understanding long-term climate changes, particularly the transitions between glacial and interglacial periods.
(Maybe not seven fold, but is significant range)

Milankovitch Cycles : Eccentricity, Precession, Axial Tilt - Geology Science

Milankovitch cycles, also known as orbital or astronomical cycles, refer to the variations in Earth's orbit and axial tilt that occur over long periods of time. These cycles are thought to play a crucial role in shaping Earth's climate by influencing the distribution and intensity of sunlight...

geologyscience.com

 

[DennisPTate]

Orbital Forcing and Milankovitch Cycles​

1. Overview: Orbital forcing refers to the influence of variations in Earth’s orbit and axial tilt, as described by Milankovitch cycles, on the planet’s climate. These cyclic changes in orbital parameters result in variations in the distribution and intensity of solar radiation reaching Earth. Orbital forcing is a key factor in understanding long-term climate changes, particularly the transitions between glacial and interglacial periods.
(Maybe not seven fold, but is significant range)
View attachment 1247047
View attachment 1247048

Milankovitch Cycles : Eccentricity, Precession, Axial Tilt - Geology Science

Milankovitch cycles, also known as orbital or astronomical cycles, refer to the variations in Earth's orbit and axial tilt that occur over long periods of time. These cycles are thought to play a crucial role in shaping Earth's climate by influencing the distribution and intensity of sunlight...

geologyscience.com

Wow!!!!

I so thank you for this!

I have got to read more on this.

 

[DennisPTate]

So what happens if Antarctica melts?

Hopefully by then our grandchildren and great grand children, will have fully turned the deserts of the world green with lots of trees?


.....
I am of the belief that promoting deliberately turning deserts green as is predicted in Isaiah chapter thirty five may well be the number one most effective way to annoy Mr. Al Gore and all of his fans.

Deliberately turning deserts green could also fit nicely with the "Abraham Accords" and put President Donald John Trump closer to a Nobel Peace Prize, which will annoy Al Gore at an extreme level?

.... "Will world peace begin with immigrants from many nations who go to Canada and find out ways to address the root causes of the conflicts that were going on in the nations that they left?

I am hopeful that this will be the case, for example, immigrants to Canada from the Middle East may be able to turn the world away from the Al Gore Carbon Tax Theory and the Bill Gates, "Innovation to zero" emissions theory, and instead adopt the more down to earth approach to Climate Change advocated in the Jewish, Islamic and Christian scriptures as well as by a New Mexico biologist and coach.

Here is an ancient Islamic prediction that sounds like a brilliant response to both the threat of rising ocean levels... as well as to the Economic Crisis that it appears some influential people seem to want to occur."

Book 005, Number 2208:
"Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (way peace be upon him) as saying: The Last Hour will not come before wealth becomes abundant and overflowing, so much so that a man takes Zakat out of his property and cannot find anyone to accept it from him and till the land of Arabia becomes meadows and rivers."
SAHIH MUSLIM, BOOK 25: The Book on General Behaviour (Kitab Al-Adab)

Al Gore: Liar The Ice Is Still There

 

[frigidweirdo]

Hopefully by then our grandchildren and great grand children, will have fully turned the deserts of the world green with lots of trees?


.....
I am of the belief that promoting deliberately turning deserts green as is predicted in Isaiah chapter thirty five may well be the number one most effective way to annoy Mr. Al Gore and all of his fans.

Deliberately turning deserts green could also fit nicely with the "Abraham Accords" and put President Donald John Trump closer to a Nobel Peace Prize, which will annoy Al Gore at an extreme level?

.... "Will world peace begin with immigrants from many nations who go to Canada and find out ways to address the root causes of the conflicts that were going on in the nations that they left?

I am hopeful that this will be the case, for example, immigrants to Canada from the Middle East may be able to turn the world away from the Al Gore Carbon Tax Theory and the Bill Gates, "Innovation to zero" emissions theory, and instead adopt the more down to earth approach to Climate Change advocated in the Jewish, Islamic and Christian scriptures as well as by a New Mexico biologist and coach.

Here is an ancient Islamic prediction that sounds like a brilliant response to both the threat of rising ocean levels... as well as to the Economic Crisis that it appears some influential people seem to want to occur."


Al Gore: Liar The Ice Is Still There

That you want green deserts to annoy people, is pretty bizarre.

 

[DennisPTate]

That you want green deserts to annoy people, is pretty bizarre.

It can be challenging to get my online MAGA buddies motivated.

 

[frigidweirdo]

It can be challenging to get my online MAGA buddies motivated.

I don't understand what you're trying to get at.

 

[DennisPTate]

I don't understand what you're trying to get at.

A discussion on an online forum might just inspire a significant number of people to do more research and begin to look at the larger picture. The Arctic is definitely warming....... if the Land Based Greenland Ice Sheet experiences similar warming then we will likely have rising ocean levels. Putting desalinated water into deserts is an obvious possible way to lessen the future tendency for oceans to rise.

Dr. James Hansen once wrote that about ten thousand years or so ago oceans rose by about twenty meters over merely four centuries. We are not prepared for something quite like that yet but our beginning to look at this whole topic differently can be one step in the right direction.

 

[frigidweirdo]

A discussion on an online forum might just inspire a significant number of people to do more research and begin to look at the larger picture. The Arctic is definitely warming....... if the Land Based Greenland Ice Sheet experiences similar warming then we will likely have rising ocean levels. Putting desalinated water into deserts is an obvious possible way to lessen the future tendency for oceans to rise.

Dr. James Hansen once wrote that about ten thousand years or so ago oceans rose by about twenty meters over merely four centuries. We are not prepared for something quite like that yet but our beginning to look at this whole topic differently can be one step in the right direction.

We're gone from you talking about making Al Gore angry by planting trees in deserts, to motivating MAGA buddies to talking about the Arctic. I'm struggling to understand what we're talking about here.

 

[DennisPTate]

We're gone from you talking about making Al Gore angry by planting trees in deserts, to motivating MAGA buddies to talking about the Arctic. I'm struggling to understand what we're talking about here.

The Conservative community for the past twenty years has been saying "Climate Change is a Hoax" almost like a mantra.

If a number of MAGA people came to the conclusion that promoting deliberately turning deserts green could assist in President Donald John Trump earning a Nobel Prize for Peace, [which would probably not make Al Gore happy], then the world has taken one step toward Climate Change being addressed in a manner that could actually work.

At this time the Carbon Tax is dead in Canada and other nations are headed in the same direction as well.

Turning deserts green is an alternative theory on stabilization of the climate that could just catch on?

Carl Cantrell.

"So how is our problem of continental drying causing global warming? It all has to do with vegetation and sunlight. When sun light hits a plant, it causes a process which we call photosynthesis where the energy from the sun light creates oxygen for us to breathe, water for us to drink, and is stored as sugar for plants and animals to use. When the same sun light hits the soil, all of its energy turns into heat and is radiated back into the atmosphere.. ."

"Therefore, the less vegetation you have on the planet, the more sunlight is being turned into heat and the warmer the planet becomes...."

"Just take a look at any satellite picture of the earth showing heat and you will see that our deserts are the warmest spots on the planet by far. More heat is being generated by just one of the top four or five deserts than by all of our cities combined.... "

"The truth is that you can do more to decrease global warming by just reducing the average temperature for the Sahara Desert by one or two degrees than if we humans completely quit using fossil fuels and returned to the cave…."

"So, how would you start working to resolve this problem? Easy, cool the deserts and get some vegetation growing on them as soon as possible. But the method is much more complex than that. You have to use the prevailing trade winds in relation to the deserts to get the best results as quickly as possible and it will be extremely expensive…."

"Then we build desalination plants along the coast near these water sheds and pipe water to the tops or ridges of the water sheds…"

"We need to start working on this as soon as possible because, if the planet reaches a point to where it is warming faster than our technology can possibly stop or reverse this warming trend, then our planet is lost and all life will cease to exist on this planet within a relatively short period of time. We will need to start with the largest and hottest deserts because cooling them will have the greatest benefit in the least time (Global Warming II by biologist Carl Cantrell)."

Chaim Henry Tejman M. D. :

Our environment is obviously undergoing major changes, and I believe that trees have a vital role in the atmospheric balance. Trees possess the ability to absorb much of the incoming energy. Gradually, trees that have absorbed energy submerge beneath the ground and turn into coal. Mankind is presently consuming unprecedented amounts of energy. Instead of storing the energy, like nature, we are releasing it into the atmosphere. Therefore, an international effort must be made to stop cutting down trees and to plant as many more as possible.

Energetic matter is in perpetual transition, and humans, who are also the product of energetic matter, similarly lack stability. The same holds true for our entire planetary system. Therefore, the Earth will always be subject to change, be it to our benefit or detriment.

In previous articles, I wrote on the creation and constant release of energetic matter and that mankind must learn to exploit phenomena such as earthquakes and hurricanes. Furthermore, we must reduce our reliance on energy sources such as coal and oil, which the Earth has already managed to store. We must reach the point in which these energy supplies are only utilized for medications and other critical needs. The continuity of the human race will depend on our ability to adapt to these changes and maintain the balance between water, vegetation, and energy.

Global Warming

 

[frigidweirdo]

The Conservative community for the past twenty years has been saying "Climate Change is a Hoax" almost like a mantra.

If a number of MAGA people came to the conclusion that promoting deliberately turning deserts green could assist in President Donald John Trump earning a Nobel Prize for Peace, [which would probably not make Al Gore happy], then the world has taken one step toward Climate Change being addressed in a manner that could actually work.

At this time the Carbon Tax is dead in Canada and other nations are headed in the same direction as well.

Turning deserts green is an alternative theory on stabilization of the climate that could just catch on?

Turning deserts green is always going to come with issues.

We have a tendency, as humans, of not being able to understand everything.

If you make a desert green, and if it rains in that once desert, where's the water coming from? China is doing this, and we'll see if it has any adverse impact on the local or regional weather system.

 

[DennisPTate]

Turning deserts green is always going to come with issues.

We have a tendency, as humans, of not being able to understand everything.

If you make a desert green, and if it rains in that once desert, where's the water coming from? China is doing this, and we'll see if it has any adverse impact on the local or regional weather system.

Even the increase of atmospheric carbon dioxide seems to be helping some deserts to become significantly greener. Foliage on trees is up by over twenty percent worldwide.

Yes, rising carbon dioxide (\(CO_{2}\)) is causing a "greening" effect across many of the Earth's arid regions and drylands. A major satellite study supported by NASA Science revealed that higher \(CO_{2}\) acts as a fertilizer, increasing leaf growth and expanding vegetation in formerly barren areas. [1, 2, 3]

The Mechanism: \(CO_{2}\) Fertilization

• Photosynthesis Boost: Increased atmospheric carbon dioxide allows plants and trees to take in more carbon during photosynthesis to produce sugars. [1]
• Water Efficiency: Higher \(CO_{2}\) allows plants to partially close the pores on their leaves (stomata) through which they "breathe". This reduces water loss, allowing flora in arid and dryland environments to thrive on less moisture. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
• Scale of Growth: Over the last few decades, this greening effect has added a leaf area equivalent to twice the size of the continental United States. [1]

The Caveats & Limitations
While this greening might sound like a purely positive environmental development, NASA scientists and climate researchers emphasize several major concerns: [1, 2]

• Diminishing Returns: Plants acclimatize to higher \(CO_{2}\) concentrations, meaning the fertilization effect tends to diminish or level off over time. [1]
• Water Scarcity: While plants require less water individually, the expansion of plant life across deserts and drylands drains more scarce water supplies from the ecosystem as a whole. [1]
• Climate Change Trade-off: The \(CO_{2}\) driving the greening is simultaneously the primary cause of severe global warming, sea-level rise, and shifting weather patterns

CO2 is making Earth greener—for now - NASA Science

A quarter to half of Earth’s vegetated lands has shown significant greening over the last 35 years largely due to rising levels of atmospheric carbon dioxide.

science.nasa.gov

 

[frigidweirdo]

Even the increase of atmospheric carbon dioxide seems to be helping some deserts to become significantly greener. Foliage on trees is up by over twenty percent worldwide.

CO2 is making Earth greener—for now - NASA Science

A quarter to half of Earth’s vegetated lands has shown significant greening over the last 35 years largely due to rising levels of atmospheric carbon dioxide.

science.nasa.gov

Yes, CO2 can increase plants, they like CO2.

However there are still issues with too much CO2. Like, we as humans are not able to adapt to too much CO2.

 

[DennisPTate]

Yes, CO2 can increase plants, they like CO2.

However there are still issues with too much CO2. Like, we as humans are not able to adapt to too much CO2.

But at least plants and trees gobble and seaweed, up CO2 and produce more oxygen.

 

[frigidweirdo]

But at least plants and trees gobble and seaweed, up CO2 and produce more oxygen.

But it's not that simple, is it?

 

[DennisPTate]

But it's not that simple, is it?

If the West Antarctic Ice Sheet were to be hit by a tsunami or if volcanoes went off under it, we could have rather rapidly rising ocean levels.

I believe that a Carbon Tax is too divisive to be adopted anyway but turning deserts green is a win, win, win scenario.

Vehicles that run on propane or natural gas produce exhaust that plants love. Nitrogen, carbon dioxide and water! If more propane vehicles operated in arid regions there would be more greening in those areas.

A propane (autogas) vehicle primarily produces carbon dioxide (\(CO_{2}\)) and water vapor (\(H_{2}O\)) during combustion. Because it is a cleaner-burning fuel, it also emits trace amounts of other gases, including: [1, 2, 3]

• Nitrogen oxides (\(NO_{x}\)): Formed at high temperatures, but at significantly lower levels than gasoline or diesel.
• Carbon monoxide (\(CO\)): Produced in very low quantities—about \(30\%\) to \(60\%\) less than gasoline.
• Hydrocarbons: Unburned fuel gases that contribute to ground-level ozone, though propane emits up to \(80\%\) fewer than diesel

 

[frigidweirdo]

If the West Antarctic Ice Sheet were to be hit by a tsunami or if volcanoes went off under it, we could have rather rapidly rising ocean levels.

I believe that a Carbon Tax is too divisive to be adopted anyway but turning deserts green is a win, win, win scenario.

Vehicles that run on propane or natural gas produce exhaust that plants love. Nitrogen, carbon dioxide and water! If more propane vehicles operated in arid regions there would be more greening in those areas.

Turning deserts green might not be a "win/win". Do you know the consequences of doing so? No. Neither do I.

Research into green energy needs to be paid for. People don't like paying taxes. So what? Do they like the planet being uninhabitable?

 

[DennisPTate]

Turning deserts green might not be a "win/win". Do you know the consequences of doing so? No. Neither do I.

Research into green energy needs to be paid for. People don't like paying taxes. So what? Do they like the planet being uninhabitable?

But is not the alternative a major increase in ocean levels over the coming centuries as the West Antarctic Ice Sheet probably collapses and as the Land Based Greenland Ice Sheet cracks and slides into the North Atlantic?

It is true that turning deserts green may make life more difficult for some specific breeds of scorpions.... but the alternative to my thinking seems to be tens of millions or even hundreds of millions of human climate change refugees?

 

[EdwinAMartin]

This is actually the "Clean Debate Zone" but I probably gave a link to this to a related topic in the "Current Events" forum because you can rest assured that although Kamala and the "Green New Deal" is temporarily not an immediate problem, but you can rest assured that the idea of using fear over Climate Change will probably be back with a vengeance by 2028?

Kamala may even be one of the more interesting Dem candidates for 2028?

It's just another Communist scam. Al Gore found an easy way to line his pockets with billions via what is really just an extortion racket., calling them 'carbon credits' ...

People's Climate Rally, Oakland, 9-21-14

 

[frigidweirdo]

But is not the alternative a major increase in ocean levels over the coming centuries as the West Antarctic Ice Sheet probably collapses and as the Land Based Greenland Ice Sheet cracks and slides into the North Atlantic?

It is true that turning deserts green may make life more difficult for some specific breeds of scorpions.... but the alternative to my thinking seems to be tens of millions or even hundreds of millions of human climate change refugees?

We don't know what the alternative is.

Making deserts green isn't going to change whether climate change happens. It's not going to stop global warming or global cooling.

All it's going to do is change weather patterns. Where once no rain fell in one place, it might fall in abundance, which means somewhere that had abundance might not have much at all.