Roe v. Wade getting overturned!!

[Independent thinker]

" Expecting Mind Readers "

* More Nouns And Fewer Pronouns *

Which proposal did you make ?

Reiterating a proposition is part of maintaining focus .

The constitutional basis for abortion is that birth is required for equal protection , such that states are prohibited from protecting a wright to life of anything which has not met a live birth requirement to receive it , such that states are prohibited from proscribing abortion .

If " your " proposition specifically refers to a fetus , estimated to begin near 11 weeks of gestation , or 9 weeks of development , then " your " proposition must necessarily not include a zygote and embryo .

If " your " proposition specifically refers to a fetus , it also ignores a distinction between " without cause " and " with cause " abortions .

The " without cause " abortions occur for unintended pregnancies , while " with cause " abortions occur for developmental abnormalities , that account for approximately 7% of abortions after the 1st trimester , and are most often detected by ultrasound between 13 and 20 weeks of development .

Simple facts are that women do not seek " without cause " abortion when " with cause " abortion are valid , and woman seeking a " without cause " abortion when " with cause " abortions are valid is a fabricated myth of abortion anti-choice pundits .

The dobbs decision is dumbfounded and sedition against us 14th , 9th and 1st amendments , that is supported by traitors to us republic .

I don't want to maintain focus. I'll just go with whatever you say. You win.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

I really don't want to debate this issue any further.

{ nfbw #9,122 to thnkr #9,119 } There is nothing to debate in your { thnkr May 17, 2023 #1 } proposal that there be 12 weeks of legal abortion but when that period is over women DO NOT have the right to choose anymore.

What you need to bring to this debate is why you believe you have the right to take that choice from women in the first place.

What justification can you come up with for granting a state government the power to harm women’s lives physically, emotionally and financially by forcing nine months of gestation on them against their will.

Do you have a justification for seeking ways for state government’s to cause harm to pregnant women who do not want to be pregnant?

I look forward reading your reasoning for your demands and denial of reproductive liberty on Americans who are born with millions of eggs in their bodies.

 

[Independent thinker]

{ nfbw #9,122 to thnkr #9,119 } There is nothing to debate in your { thnkr May 17, 2023 #1 } proposal that there be 12 weeks of legal abortion but when that period is over women DO NOT have the right to choose anymore.

What you need to bring to this debate is why you believe you have the right to take that choice from women in the first place.

What justification can you come up with for granting a state government the power to harm women’s lives physically, emotionally and financially by forcing nine months of gestation on them against their will.

Do you have a justification for seeking ways for state government’s to cause harm to pregnant women who do not want to be pregnant?

I look forward to you reasoning for your demands.

I quit. I give up. You win. I'm done talking about it. I don't want to debate it. It's over. Can you get that through your head?

 

[whutTHEYsay]

I quit. I give up. You win. I'm done talking about it. I don't want to debate it. It's over. Can you get that through your head?

{ nfbw #9,124 to thnkr #9,123 } does this mean you have come to understand that there is a distinction between fetal life and human life separated by the moment a fetus takes its very first breath?

Will you cease repeating extremist religion and political propaganda that blurs the Constitutional distinction between “unborn fetal life” and “every human being” who has been born such as this;

{ thnkr Sep 16, 2021 #59 } Ending a life that already exists is murder.”​

If not, take a break and gather up an argument for why you continue to declare that abortion prior to fetal viability is murder and must be banned.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Of course Republicans will never get the diehard abortion lovers vote.

{ nfbw #9,125 to thnkr #17 } We Democrats along with about 20% of Republicans are not abortion lovers. We are ‘Freedom for Women Reproductive Rights’ lovers,

I am a father of two with grandkids galore. who would never contribute to creation of a fetus and then encourage the mother to abort.

 

[Independent thinker]

{ nfbw #9,124 to thnkr #9,123 } does this mean you have come to understand that there is a distinction between fetal life and human life separated by the moment a fetus takes its very first breath?

Will you cease repeating extremist religion and political propaganda that blurs the Constitutional distinction between “unborn fetal life” and “every human being” who has been born such as this;

{ thnkr Sep 16, 2021 #59 } Ending a life that already exists is murder.”​

If not, take a break and gather up an argument for why you continue to declare that abortion prior to fetal viability is murder and must be banned.

Yes, You have convinced me my lord and savior. I have converted due to your posts. I've been born again. I will look up to your wisdom for the rest of eternity oh mighty one.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

you need to understand that no one is being forced by the State to have an abortion

what we see from supposedly devout Catholics liken Biden, etc, is an effort to facilitate abortion.

{ nfbw #9,127 to mvdlap #132 & shvvtr #136 } Biden was not elected to enforce Vatican Law/Doctrine. As a Catholic he may believe that the sanctity of life begins at Conception, but he has no obligation or authority to be anything other than neutral on the matter when the sanctity of life begins. The Constitution upon which Biden took an oath to uphold says human life is protected ftom moment of birth. That is consistent with Judaism and perhaps the first millennium of Catholicism

According to Dante:

Hence, Dante’s works are good for glimpsing Church doctrine in the early days, since Dante won’t support any teachings not sanctioned by the Church.​

Has Catholic Theology Always Believed Life Begins at Conception? – Beyond Highbrow

In Dante, there are passages which discuss the development of human life and the soul. They are very interesting for a peek into what the early Church felt about human life and its beginnings. Dante’s version, like much of his thinking, is very Aquinian – via St. Thomas Aquinas, the great early Christian philosopher who wrote in the 1100’s.​

​

Dante’s version of the beginnings of human life (and the development of the human soul) is not exactly in accord with modern science, but nevertheless, it is straight from Aquinas. Early peoples had some knowledge of conception and the development of the fetus in the womb. Women miscarried back then, and when you look at the material, you can see the fetus in the rejected uterine matter. From there, they could postulate various things.​

​

First of all, soon after conception, the beginnings of human life take shape.​

​

Stage 1: Dante says that in the beginning, the fetus is animate, but it is not even yet an animal. It is more like a plant; it is “vegetative.” This seems strange, but what he means is in terms of consciousness. To say it is like a plant means it is alive, but it can’t think. Plants are alive, but they don’t seem to think. In other words, it has the soul of a plant. I assume that killing a fetus at this stage would be as sinful in Church terms as killing a plant.​

​

Stage 2: Later the fetus changes into a form that is part-animal and part-plant. This seems odd again, but he’s again speaking in terms of consciousness, or soul. Dante describes this fetus as being like a sea anemone, or as having the soul of a sea anemone. A sea anemone is an animal that looks and somewhat acts like a plant. It probably has a brain, but clearly it’s none too bright. It’s nearly transitional between plant and animal metaphysically speaking.​

​

It’s vegetative (alive) and it has elementary sensory abilities, but not much beyond that. Killing a fetus at this stage would be as sinful in Church terms as killing a sea anemone.​

​

Stage 3: After that, the fetus changes into an animal. But it is a non-human animal. Once again he speaks metaphysically. This means that it can’t really reason or think intellectually, or that it has no consciousness. It’s like a dog or a cat, or it has the soul of a cat or a dog. Killing a fetus at this point would be as sinful in Church terms as killing a dog or a cat.​

​

Stage 4: Finally, at some point, the fetus is touched by God through some sort of mechanism and it is given a soul. At that point, it becomes a human being, since non-human animals lack souls.​

******​

​

It follows from this that the Church believed that in Stages 1-3, the fetus was not yet a human being. It was presumably for this reason that abortion was allowed until quickening.​

 

[whutTHEYsay]

An espionage charge would be the final nail in the coffin ---- proving that this is nothing but partisan abuse of power by the Biden owned DOJ, which it already was anyway.

{ nfbw to thnkr #102 } A secret grand jury in Red State Florida saw evidence and voted to indict Trump on espionage charges. If you have evidence that Joe Biden rigged a Grand Jury in Florida to get Trump charged on espionage crimes? Based upon phony unethical evidence, then I’ll wait here to see what you got.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

n a nutshell, because of the Scots-Irish Presbyterian officers who served under George Washington in the Revolution. But it's much deeper than that. These people wanted to create a representative Republic and used the Presbyterian Church structure as a model and inspiration. It had little to do with religious belief. It was about leadership structure.

Very interesting but won’t be renaming the USofA to the United States of Presbyteria anytime soon. Read the following quick before DeSantis bans it.

Outstanding political thinkers writing in the time of the Age of Reason such as Hobbes, Locke, Voltaire, Montesquieu, and Rousseau shaped the thinking of people who would later write the American Constitution. Men like Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, John Adams and other framers of the Constitution drew heavily from the writings of these earlier political thinkers. The Age of Enlightenment’s influence on the American Constitution | Black History​

​

​

 

[Independent thinker]

{ nfbw to thnkr #102 } A secret grand jury in Red State Florida saw evidence and voted to indict Trump on espionage charges. If you have evidence that Joe Biden rigged a Grand Jury in Florida to get Trump charged on espionage crimes? Based upon phony unethical evidence, then I’ll wait here to see what you got.

LOL. You mean a grand jury in a blue city?

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Isn't it perfectly possible to hold a secular pro-life position?

{ nfbw #9,131 to shvvtr #238 } Yes of course.

I am pro-life regarding any offspring I may produce.

I am a rational theist having made the personal decision to extend to the unborn all the way to conception the same human pro-life duty we give to the born. I do so as a secular humanist not for a belief in some revealed desert religion.

Roe vs Wade was a secular humanist libertarian compromise finding the natural human right of a pregnant women to determine what happens to her pregnant body could be limited “only” after the time that a fetus develops to a point of viability.

That finding fifty years ago was purely secular in a bipartisan ruling.

The only realistic politically viable opposition to that secular finding fifty years ago comes from extremist mostly white Christians which includes less than half of all the nations church attending Catholics.

The SC that struck down ROE in Dobbs was a six Catholic decision. Dobbs was not a secular driven decision. Without the white Christian Saving Baby Fetus movement electing Republicans to the US Senate to put six Catholic judges on the SC over the past fifty years - secular ROE would still be the supreme secular law of the land - doing no harm to viable aged fetuses not yet born.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

It is scientifically inarguable that a human's life and their aging as a human organism begns at conception.

Your entire argument ends in a demand that the scientific community, the federal government and our entire system of laws must accept that the exact moment when an egg is fertilized in the womb it is a fact of life that said fertile embryo is an ‘individual’ human being and a citizen protected by the US Constitution. That embryo must be afforded the same rights as a fully developed individual human being and be protected by the government and all of society. Because you say so.


The onus is on you to explain why we the people of the United States of America should not laugh you off this message board for demanding that your political driven absurdity of thought must apply of all of us.

{ nfbw #9,132 to chzlf.19.12 #18 } “There is no scientific discovery that has ever produced evidence that there are two or more conscious human beings in one body during the fifteenth week of a pregnancy.”

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Murderers should go to prison

{ nfbw #9,133 to myrpls #135 } You must know CarsomyrPlusSix that there is no scientific biological discovery that has ever produced evidence that there are two or more conscious human beings in one body during the fifteenth week of a pregnancy. That is the consciousness of one mind, body and soul of the women who is pregnant. Reason causes any moral and realistic human being to easily conclude that in the fifteenth week of pregnancy there is no separate conscious human being that a pregnant woman can kill or murder. There is no one to murder in a fifteen week abortion. 93% of all abortions are performed within the fifteenth week.

 

[CarsomyrPlusSix]

{ nfbw #9,133 to myrpls #135 } You must know CarsomyrPlusSix

You must know what a retarded and useless piece of shit you are.

Fuckin’ Nazi.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

LOL. You mean a grand jury in a blue city?

You must know what a retarded and useless piece of shit you are

If Trump is going to make his bid for power, he's going to have to move soon.

It has to be within the law or they'll walk him off to jail.

It's likely that his only opening move is in calling out millions to a venue that can hold that size crowd.

And the American people have to answer his call!

Otherwise, Biden holds more than just America's fate in his hands!

{ nfbw #9,135 to donldh #7 } How are millions of dumb-Ashley Babbitts gathered in one venue going to give back to Trump the power that he lost.

{nfbw #9,135 to myrpls #9,134 } No! I am a rational theist posting rational posts to which I’ve learned that an atheist such as yourself has no ability to meaningfully respond.

{ nfbw #9,135 to thnkr #9,130 } Miami Dade is redder than red, Would you like to see Trump be trued in Moscow in the shadow of the Kremlin?

 

[Independent thinker]

{ nfbw #9,135 to donldh #7 } How are millions of dumb-Ashley Babbitts gathered in one venue going to give back to Trump the power that he lost.

{nfbw #9,135 to myrpls #9,134 } No! I am a rational theist posting rational posts to which I’ve learned that an atheist such as yourself has no ability to meaningfully respond.

{ nfbw #9,135 to thnkr #9,130 } Miami Dade is redder than red, Would you like to see Trump be trued in Moscow in the shadow of the Kremlin?

You need to start posting in English if you want to be taken seriously.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

You need to start posting in English if you want to be taken seriously

Every non-responsive excuse in your replies without substance tells me that I am being taking seriously. Trump might get a fair trial for a jury picked in Moscow,

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Making something that is found immoral and sinful in scripture LEGAL

{ nfbw #9,138 to clyd154 #100 } Something that is sinful in scripture is not necessarily immoral or a crime ir illegal in our secular system of law.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

That's 64,443,118 kids,
That will never go to school,
Never get to fall in love,
Never get to be cool...

{ nfbw to pvtto #58 } Ejaculation involving contraception and not intended for a fertile vagina:

That's trillions of kids,
That will never go to school,
Never get to fall in love,
Never get to be cool...

Better get the morality police on it right away.

 

[Donald H]

{ nfbw #9,135 to donldh #7 } How are millions of dumb-Ashley Babbitts gathered in one venue going to give back to Trump the power that he lost.

It's obvious that none of them are as dumb as the babbitt girl.

But I think America is still a long way from calling Trump out.