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NFBW: Dobbs says a State Government can restrict abortion however the state sees fit. But that does not actually protect the life of a fetus when women have other options to terminate that the states cannot and have not forbid. Think about it. Red states that ban abortion procedures after 15 weeks are debunking your entire argument as well.If the government is saying an abortion cannot be performed after a certain date, it is protecting the life of the fetus by doing so.
How is it debunking my legal argument?NFBW: Dobbs says a State Government can restrict abortion however the state sees fit. But that does not actually protect the life of a fetus when women have other options to terminate that the states cannot and have not forbid. Think about it. Red states that ban abortion procedures after 15 weeks are debunking your entire argument as well.
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There are no rights being granted to a single celled zygote at conception.
HeyNorm230130-#438 • I see, there is no purpose for abortion and thus, it would appear that doctors would be prohibited from performing a surgical procedure that had no purpose.
NFBW: Why is there no purpose to terminate the first 23 weeks after the first 12 hours of this?
: View attachment 752240
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I see, there is no purpose for abortion and thus, it would appear that doctors would be prohibited from performing a surgical procedure that had no purpose.
Thanks.
Was that you in the top quote?Not my argument, you’ll have to ask the person who presented it as one.
Man, I’ve reduced you to nothing but a troll.
Was that you in the top quote?
Are you saying the opposite is true or what ?
NFBW: Why is there no purpose to terminate the first 23 weeks after the first 12 hours of this?
:
Show me where in any state that has passed laws to ban abortion that in that law is a clause granting a single celled zygote any rights.HeyNorm230130-#438 • I see, there is no purpose for abortion and thus, it would appear that doctors would be prohibited from performing a surgical procedure that had no purpose.
NFBW: Why is there no purpose to terminate the first 23 weeks after the first 12 hours of this?
: View attachment 752240
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Why isn't the government granting privacy rights to those who want to destroy their own bodies with the drugs of their choice or to be prostitutes if they so choose to do so ? I mean hey let's explore these privacy rights you think that people should have, even though death and destruction of human beings are involved, but hey it's their right of privacy right ???NFBW230130-#6,999 • The problem for your argument is that in reality the government is not granting an individual fetus human rights protection on the basis that it has become viable. The government is denying a woman who is pregnant the natural right to privacy and bodily autonomy after the date a governmental legal set age of viability based upon scientific medical consensus, has passed.
HeyNorm230130-#7,000 If the government is saying an abortion cannot be performed after a certain date, it is protecting the life of the fetus by doing so.
NFBW230130-#7,001 • Dobbs says a State Government can restrict abortion however the state sees fit. But that does not actually protect the life of a fetus when women have other options to terminate that the states cannot and have not forbid.
^^
HeyNorm230130-#7,002 How is it debunking my legal argument?
NFBW: Your argument relies on the false premise that states are protecting the life of the fetus when abortion is banned in state medical facilities because that does not prevent all women who seek abortions from killing the live human organism in any way. The fetus dies just as dead if a woman can afford to travel out of state, have an abortion and return to the comfort of her home without being charged for murder by prosecutors in her state. That is the reality that destroys your entire argument and you cannot make reality go away by repetition or playing dumb.
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HeyNorm230130-#7,000 HeyNorm • If the government is saying an abortion cannot be performed after a certain date, it is protecting the life of the fetus by doing so.
NFBW: What if an election denier pro-gun anti-demofascist like westwall knocks up his girlfriend and he knows he has time to have the kid aborted if he pays for it before the magical “certain date” that you say HeyNorm protects the fetus from being murdered?
westwall221023-#99 • I am anti abortion after 20 weeks. Before that knock yourself out. If you can't figure it out by then have the baby then put it up for adoption
The election may very well come down to Dobbs at this point. The Republicans' endless abortion crusade and invasion into other people's personal decisions are overshadowing the failures of the Biden administration.^^
westwall220904-#9 “Most of them are the dead voters that you demofascists are famous for harvesting ballots from.”
NFBW: Back to the absurd assertion that HeyNorm relies upon in his arguments -“If the government is saying an abortion cannot be performed after a certain date, it is protecting the life of the fetus by doing so.”
How in the case of westwall is the 24 week fetus saved from being killed when the state inhabited by the likes of a Herschel Walker kills his unwanted babies weeks before the “date certain” that the state bans abortion doctors from performing that medical procedure legally.
it has to be true that when all unwanted fetuses can be killed prior to 25 weeks it means killing fetuses is legal during a window of 18 weeks after finding out one’s girlfriend is pregnant.
Therefore it also means that all fetuses after 24 weeks are wanted. If the fetuses are all wanted after the date certsin set by the state - there is no need for the state to protect wanted fetuses from their mother or father. All the unwanted fetuses are dead by then.
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CS221012-#73 Canon Shooter • If you kill a person or steal from them, you should be punished because you've broken the law. •••• But if a woman goes to New York to get an abortion, she should not be punished because she's broken no law. •••• If someone kills you, that person has adversely affected your life (obviously). If I steal all of your money from you, I've adversely affected your life. If a woman in Portland gets an abortion, the impact on you is nil; nada, zip-squat-shit...
CS222013-#86 Canon Shooter • do you believe abortion should be banned nationwide?
^^
gfm1775221013-#88 No, as that is unconstitutional. Congress has no power to legislate abortion. It is a State level issue in which the people of each State get to decide. SCOTUS ruled correctly in Dobbs.
dudmuck221014-#114 the 9th amendment is relevant here because it protects rights not specifically enumerated. •••• The Court reasoned that outlawing abortions would infringe a pregnant woman's right to privacy for several reasons: having unwanted children "may force upon the woman a distressful life and future"; it may bring imminent psychological harm; caring for the child may tax the mother's physical and mental health; and because there may be "distress, for all concerned, associated with the unwanted child" •••• At the same time, the Court rejected the notion that this right to privacy was absolute, which means states can impose some limitations on abortion.
schmidlap240119-#323 • If and when viability and sentience develops, they are then deserving of society's protection. Until that stage is reached, a woman's right to control her body in consultation with trusted medical and spiritual advisers and loved one is far superior to the dictates of impersonal politicians and bureaucrats.
^^
HeyNorm230119-#324 So, I will ask again, when is this moment achieved?
^^
schmidlap230119-#327 • Roe v Wade was a compromise that recognized the precise moment viability and sentience is achieved is indeterminable. An informed judgment based upon the best medical science is the best we can hope for.
Blues Man230127-#375 I don't agree entirely with that. IMO once development reaches the stage of fetal viability outside the womb there is an argument at that point the fetus can be called a person
^^
HeyNorm230128-#376 In all seriousness, how does one determine that, short of an autopsy.
^^
HeyNorm230128-#391 • You gave a time frame to protect the fetus. Granting it the right to exis
^^
NFBW230130-#431 • The time frame set by a government is not to create a right for an individual viable fetus, or for all viable fetuses as a class. The timeframe of which we speak set by the government is to put a restriction on a woman’s right to terminate her pregnancy on a timeline consistent when the scientific medical community ascertains that a fetus could survive outside the womb, which generally is around 24 weeks. •••• All that Dobbs did was determine that states have a constitutional right to regulate the medical procedure of abortion as the white Christian Nationa Republican voters in each state see fit. •••• In other words, get it out of your head HeyNorm that Roe v. Wade or Dobbs granted personhood rights to a fetus because it has developed to a stage of viability where it can live outside the womb
HeyNorm230130-#432 • Regardless. Then the scientific community created a class! And the government used it! It created a class based on a subjective calendar date that many, not achieving THAT DATE, have advanced to a stage EQUAL TOO OR GREATER THAN, some that have. •••• THEREFORE ARBITRARY!
BluesMan230130-#433 No it didn't •••• The Dobbs decision said nothing about fetuses all it said was each state has the right to regulate the procedure of abortion within its own borders. •••• States that ban abortion have not given the rights of personhood to a fetus.
HeyNorm230130-#441 You give arbitrary protection to one, but not the other.
NFBW: All these people have been trying to reach you some reality HeyNorm . No the 24 week viable fetus is no more protected than the 23 week not viable fetus when a woman is not charged with murder if she comes home after she goes outside the state to get a legal abortion . No woman can leave a state to murder her one year old after live-birth child and then come back without prosecution. Children who have experienced live birth are protected.
An unborn living human organism is not protected anywhere in the US because they are not considered persons. Setting a time where the state begins to have an interest in limiting a woman’s right to have an elective abortion on or around the arbitrary concept if viability doed not protect the fetus from women who decide to abort. You are absolutely wrong HeyNorm
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different day. The dude claims he can take human life based on an arbitrary reason.
HeyNorm230130-#7,000 HeyNorm • If the government is saying an abortion cannot be performed after a certain date, it is protecting the life of the fetus by doing so.
~
westwall221023-#99 I am anti abortion after 20 weeks. Before that knock yourself out. If you can't figure it out by then have the baby then put it up for adoption.
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westwall230131-#7,014 Both parties suck because they are tools of the elite.
NFBW: Question for westwall and HeyNorm . Which political Party or political Party elites do you hold responsible for placing six Catholic justices on the Supreme Court who achieved one Party’s goal of overturning Roe v Wade ?????
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Nope, an eight month gestated “human being” is similarly situated to a Seven month gestated “human being”
HeyNorm230130-#7,000 If the government is saying an abortion cannot be performed after a certain date, it is protecting the life of the fetus by doing so.
NFBW: If the government allows legal termination by elective induced abortion of any living human organism from this point ……
View attachment 752493
(No matter what CarsomyrPlusSix wants to call it ) ……. through any point prior to live birth, there is absolutely no way the above statement from post 7000 can possibly be accurate and true when a woman can confirm she is pregnant at around Six to Eight weeks.
A woman finds herself eight weeks pregnant and lives in a state that bans abortion after 15 weeks. She has seven weeks to get it done in her home state or travel to a state that that bans abortion 24 weeks or she has the mail order option as well.
So HeyNorm tell us in the first option how a 15 week ban on abortion protects a 16 week fetus in the state. The 16 week unwanted fetus is killed so it does not survive long enough to be protected. All fetuses at age 16 weeks are protected by the desire of mothers who want them protected.
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