Roe v. Wade getting overturned!!

[HeyNorm]

A fetus/baby born into the world after cutting the cord could definitely die if can't oxygenate it's own blood, but that doesn't make that fetus/baby any less alive as a human until that heart stops beating.

The fool is grasping at straws in a feeble attempt to dehumanize his fellow citizens

 

[whutTHEYsay]

A fetus/baby born into the world after cutting the cord could definitely die if can't oxygenate it's own blood, but that doesn't make that fetus/baby any less alive as a human until that heart stops beating.

NFBW: that point is not contested by me. That fetus/baby is not any less alive as a human until it’s heart stops beating. Therefore, what is your point?

END2301281405

 

[whutTHEYsay]

beagle9230128-#6,955 • So we could say or add that "yes", their live's we're threatened by health related issues arising from the care taking chores of caring for an Alzheimer's patient
^^
NFBW230128-#6,958 I must ask you is the Alzheimer’s patient inside of the caretakers body?
^^
beagle9230128-#6,960 Makes no difference.
^^
NFBW: I appreciate that you understand and are forced to admit the Alzheimer’s patient is not inside of the caretakers body because that is impossible to be true. However your ludicrous opinion that it makes no difference shows you have no concept of reality.

Every pregnancy brings risk that the growing human organism INSIDE a woman’s body could cause harm and death - three times more likely for black woman than white.

There is no study where the Alzheimer’s patient outside of the caretakers body has caused physical internal harm or death to another person. Is there?

On that note I notice none of you woman abusers are responding to any of this: a real study.

NFBW220223-#810 We cannot expect Mashmont and Trump voters here to read this but it’s here for the record of Trumpisms low and non-existent morality on issues of race and health.
US maternal mortality soars amid widening racial disparities Agence France-Presse

February 23, 2022 The US maternal mortality rate -- already the worst in the industrialized world -- rose in 2020 to its highest level in half a century, with Black women three times more likely to die than white women, data showed Wednesday. A National Center for Health Statistics report showed the rate was 23.8...​

END2301281522

 

[Monk-Eye]

" Unaffordable Ding Dong Insurance "

* Children Think It Is Silly String *

So, if the fetus is private property, as you assert, then it exists as such and the owner cannot convey ownership to another, outside of possibly if the owner is married, without the others consent.

The willful transfer of private property gametes from the male to female does not preclude delivery if fertilization occurs and it does not convey any proprietorship to the male over the private property which the female maintains until birth .

The willful transfer of private property gametes by the male to the female does not relieve a male of accountability should the private property of the mother be manifest itself into a child .

Which prearranged contract exists between the male and female as to what she is or is not to do with private property semen tendered with willful consent by the male ?

Was the private property of the male tendered to the female with or without willful consent by the male ?

* Lucky Anyone Would Bother *

Which means, many many millions of men are due refunds of support payments.

As the literal meaning of the metaphors for an after life , or a chance for eternal life , or for transmutation of soles , or for the life to come , or for reincarnation , etc . , is to pass on ones genetic identity one haploid at a time such that another , both figuratively and literally as ones self , by sophisticated state , have an opportunity to experience sentience and sapience of introspection that is afforded as life , where failure to do so , in perpetuity is ascribed the metaphors of final judgement or of eternal damnation .

Such complaints of fools may not deserve the benefit of being explained the rules of success or failure that are clearly set by nature .

* Logical Fallacies Of Poorly Constructed Questions *

Why do you hate women that much?

Without constitutional protections the zygote , or embryo , or fetus , is private property of the mother and , by the self ownership element from principles of individualism , the mother owns herself with privacy of property by us 4th and 5th amendments .

When did you stop beating your wife ?

 

[HeyNorm]

No dummy, using your logic, the woman used his sperm without his explicit consent.

Put that in large bolded letters.


And smoke it.

 

[beagle9]

" Unaffordable Ding Dong Insurance "

* Children Think It Is Silly String *

The willful transfer of private property gametes from the male to female does not preclude delivery if fertilization occurs and it does not convey any proprietorship to the male over the private property which the female maintains until birth .

The willful transfer of private property gametes by the male to the female does not relieve a male of accountability should the private property of the mother be manifest itself into a child .

Which prearranged contract exists between the male and female as to what she is or is not to do with private property semen tendered with willful consent by the male ?

Was the private property of the male tendered to the female with or without willful consent by the male ?

* Lucky Anyone Would Bother *

As the literal meaning of the metaphors for an after life , or a chance for eternal life , or for transmutation of soles , or for the life to come , or for reincarnation , etc . , is to pass on ones genetic identity one haploid at a time such that another , both figuratively and literally as ones self , by sophisticated state , have an opportunity to experience sentience and sapience of introspection that is afforded as life , where failure to do so , in perpetuity is ascribed the metaphors of final judgement or of eternal damnation .

Such complaints of fools may not deserve the benefit of being explained the rules of success or failure that are clearly set by nature .

* Logical Fallacies Of Poorly Constructed Questions *

Without constitutional protections the zygote , or embryo , or fetus , is private property of the mother and , by the self ownership element from principles of individualism , the mother owns herself with privacy of property by us 4th and 5th amendments .

When did you stop beating your wife ?

Why are you a former slave owner if only in your tormented mind ?

 

[whutTHEYsay]

HeyNorm239119-#6,795 • Viable and not viable is only determinable if the fetus is killed and an autopsy is performed.

Blues Man230127-#375 IMO once development reaches the stage of fetal viability outside the womb there is an argument at that point the fetus can be called a person
^^
HeyNorm230128-#376 In all seriousness, how does one determine that, short of an autopsy.

NFBW: No autopsies are ever needed because viability is in regards to potential life. Justice Blackmun supremely defined viability back in 1973.

NFBW230121-#6,815 Nixon appointee to the Supreme Court in 1970…. Justice Harry Blackmun, writing the majority opinion for Roe, defined viability as the point where a fetus “has the capability of meaningful life outside the mother’s womb”:

With respect to the State’s important and legitimate interest in potential life, the “compelling” point is at viability. This is so because the fetus then presumably has the capability of meaningful life outside the mother’s womb. State regulation protective of fetal life after viability thus has both logical and biological justifications. If the State is interested in protecting fetal life after viability, it may go so far as to proscribe abortion during that period, except when it is necessary to preserve the life or health of the mother.​

​

NFBW: And Dobbs did not overturn the
definition of viability as a point of law regarding the legality of abortion and reproductive rights.

There is no way HeyNorm to perform an autopsy on potential life prior to actual birth life.

END2301290113

​

 

[whutTHEYsay]

MaryL230113-#5 • What is the difference between abortion or infanticide?

NFBW: Viability of the fetus capable of survival leading to meaningful life whereas state interest to protect life begins and the rights to privacy and bodily integrity during pregnancy ends. Settlef law for fifty years not overturned.

NFBW230121-#6,815 Nixon appointee to the Supreme Court in 1970…. Justice Harry Blackmun, writing the majority opinion for Roe, defined viability as the point where a fetus “has the capability of meaningful life outside the mother’s womb”:

With respect to the State’s important and legitimate interest in potential life, the “compelling” point is at viability. This is so because the fetus then presumably has the capability of meaningful life outside the mother’s womb. State regulation protective of fetal life after viability thus has both logical and biological justifications. If the State is interested in protecting fetal life after viability, it may go so far as to proscribe abortion during that period, except when it is necessary to preserve the life or health of the mother.

END23012980546

 

[whutTHEYsay]

shocked230128-#1 • A sad reality in many places. Will new generations live a righteous life without the guidance of a clear moral authority?
Losing their religion: why US churches are on the decline
As the US adjusts to an increasingly non-religious population, thousands of churches are closing each year – probably accelerated by Covid

www.theguardian.com
Churches are closing at rapid numbers in the US, researchers say, as congregations dwindle across the country and a younger generation of Americans abandon Christianity altogether – even as faith continues to dominate American politics. •••• As the US adjusts to an increasingly non-religious population, thousands of churches are closing each year in the country – a figure that experts believe may have accelerated since the Covid-19 pandemic. •••• With the pandemic speeding up a broader trend of Americans turning away from Christianity, researchers say the closures will only have accelerated.
^^
ding230128-#35 ding Not to worry. It's cyclical.

occupied230121-#5 • That old time religion was a thing of hatred, racism, colonialism and wanton bloodshed. If Christianity cannot exist without all that strife then good riddance.
^^
TIR230122-#42 The Irish Ram • Except Jesus was none of those things, and He is the one we follow, not religion...

NFBW: ding is wrong. The demise of religious affiliation in patriarchal religion is linear and not likely cyclicy concurrent with the Roe v Wade decision in 1973. The freedom of being in control of their own bodies was the beginning of many women questioning the religion of their 1950s parents.

Now Dobbs is an obvious abuse of women engineered by the dying ‘white man’s world’ world of women in the kitchen barefoot and pregnant.,

The religions that abuse women by forcing unwanted childbirth will not survive without women being devoted to it more than men.

Nearly Half the Catholic believers sitting in the pews nowadays favor this Dobbs white male abuse of women in the name of Jesus .

The churches will continued losing the church going faithful if it does not strongly defend secular civil rights and privacy rights for women as equals to men.

END2301290700

 

[whutTHEYsay]

HeyNorm239119-#6,795 HeyNorm • Viable and not viable is only determinable if the fetus is killed and an autopsy is performed.

NFBW: It not difficult to know things in a civilized society rather than making things up and rely on ignorance.

Medical viability​

Fetal viability is generally considered to begin at 23 or 24 weeks gestational age in the United States.[10][11]

There is no sharp limit of development, gestational age, or weight at which a human fetus automatically becomes viable.[12]According to one study, between 2013 and 2018 at United Statesacademic medical centers, the percentage of newborns who survived long enough to leave the hospital was 30% at 22 weeks, 55% at 23 weeks, 70% at 24 weeks, and 80% of those born at 25 weeks gestational age.[13]Between 2010 and 2014, babies in the United States had an approximately 70% survival rate when born under weight of 500 g (1.10lb), an increase from a 30.8% survival rate between 2006 and 2010.[14] A baby's chances for survival increases 3 to 4 percentage points per day between 23 and 24 weeks of gestation, and about 2 to 3 percentage points per day between 24 and 26 weeks of gestation. After 26 weeks the rate of survival increases at a much slower rate because survival is high already.[15] Prognosis depends also on medical protocols on whether to resuscitate and aggressively treat a very premature newborn, or whether to provide only palliative care, in view of the high risk of severe disability of very preterm babies.[16]


Stages in prenatal development, showing viability and point of 50% chance of survival (limit of viability) at bottom. Weeks and months numbered by gestation,
According to a Stanford Universitystudy on babies born in the most advanced US hospitals between 2013 and 2018, at 23 weeks, 55% of infants survive a preterm birth long enough to be discharged from the hospital, usually months later.[13] Most of these infants experienced some form of significant neurodevelopmental impairment, such as cerebral palsy.[13]Most were re-hospitalized for respiratory illnesses or other medical problems during the first two years of life.[13] Some used adaptive equipment such as walkers or feeding tubes, but most could feed themselves when they were 2 years old.[13] Most had typical vision and hearing.[13]

Completed weeks of gestation at birth	21 and less	22	23	24	25	26	27	28	30	34
Chance of long-term survival with advanced medical care	<1%[17]	30%[13]	55%[13]	70%[13]

 

[beagle9]

HeyNorm239119-#6,795 • Viable and not viable is only determinable if the fetus is killed and an autopsy is performed.

Blues Man230127-#375 IMO once development reaches the stage of fetal viability outside the womb there is an argument at that point the fetus can be called a person
^^
HeyNorm230128-#376 In all seriousness, how does one determine that, short of an autopsy.

NFBW: No autopsies are ever needed because viability is in regards to potential life. Justice Blackmun supremely defined viability back in 1973.

NFBW230121-#6,815 Nixon appointee to the Supreme Court in 1970…. Justice Harry Blackmun, writing the majority opinion for Roe, defined viability as the point where a fetus “has the capability of meaningful life outside the mother’s womb”:

With respect to the State’s important and legitimate interest in potential life, the “compelling” point is at viability. This is so because the fetus then presumably has the capability of meaningful life outside the mother’s womb. State regulation protective of fetal life after viability thus has both logical and biological justifications. If the State is interested in protecting fetal life after viability, it may go so far as to proscribe abortion during that period, except when it is necessary to preserve the life or health of the mother.​

​

NFBW: And Dobbs did not overturn the
definition of viability as a point of law regarding the legality of abortion and reproductive rights.

There is no way HeyNorm to perform an autopsy on potential life prior to actual birth life.

END2301290113

​

So you're saying that an autopsy isn't needed, but I ask you why ?

Determining time of death, if we're to be established, would seriously complicate your positions taken in a far much greater way wouldn't it ???

Take late term abortion let's say for just one example, where as the baby is extracted in a horrendous manor, but you think that a time of death couldn't be established or shouldn't be established ?? Why not ?

 

[whutTHEYsay]

HeyNorm239119-#6,795 HeyNorm • Viable and not viable is only determinable if the fetus is killed and an autopsy is performed.

NFBW: It not difficult to know things in a civilized society rather than making things up and rely on ignorance.

​

United States Supreme Court​

The United States Supreme Court stated in Roe v. Wade (1973) that viability, defined as the "interim point at which the fetus becomes ... potentially able to live outside the mother's womb, albeit with artificial aid",[24] "is usually placed at about seven months (28 weeks) but may occur earlier, even at 24 weeks."[24]The 28-week definition became part of the "trimester framework" marking the point at which the "compelling state interest" (under the doctrine of strict scrutiny) in preserving potential life became possibly controlling, permitting states to freely regulate and even ban abortion after the 28th week.[24] The subsequent Planned Parenthood v. Casey (1992) modified the "trimester framework", permitting the states to regulate abortion in ways not posing an "undue burden" on the right of the mother to an abortion at any point before viability; on account of technological developments between 1973 and 1992, viability itself was legally dissociated from the hard line of 28 weeks, leaving the point at which "undue burdens" were permissible variable depending on the technology of the time and the judgement of the state legislatures.

 

[beagle9]

HeyNorm239119-#6,795 HeyNorm • Viable and not viable is only determinable if the fetus is killed and an autopsy is performed.

NFBW: It not difficult to know things in a civilized society rather than making things up and rely on ignorance.

​

United States Supreme Court​

The United States Supreme Court stated in Roe v. Wade (1973) that viability, defined as the "interim point at which the fetus becomes ... potentially able to live outside the mother's womb, albeit with artificial aid",[24] "is usually placed at about seven months (28 weeks) but may occur earlier, even at 24 weeks."[24]The 28-week definition became part of the "trimester framework" marking the point at which the "compelling state interest" (under the doctrine of strict scrutiny) in preserving potential life became possibly controlling, permitting states to freely regulate and even ban abortion after the 28th week.[24] The subsequent Planned Parenthood v. Casey (1992) modified the "trimester framework", permitting the states to regulate abortion in ways not posing an "undue burden" on the right of the mother to an abortion at any point before viability; on account of technological developments between 1973 and 1992, viability itself was legally dissociated from the hard line of 28 weeks, leaving the point at which "undue burdens" were permissible variable depending on the technology of the time and the judgement of the state legislatures.

So you agree with the supreme court at the time or do you ever think that rulings or opinion's are subject to change after the negative result's begin to pile up over the year's, otherwise since a ruling or opinion was given ???

 

[HeyNorm]

HeyNorm239119-#6,795 HeyNorm • Viable and not viable is only determinable if the fetus is killed and an autopsy is performed.

NFBW: It not difficult to know things in a civilized society rather than making things up and rely on ignorance.

​

United States Supreme Court​

The United States Supreme Court stated in Roe v. Wade (1973) that viability, defined as the "interim point at which the fetus becomes ... potentially able to live outside the mother's womb, albeit with artificial aid",[24] "is usually placed at about seven months (28 weeks) but may occur earlier, even at 24 weeks."[24]The 28-week definition became part of the "trimester framework" marking the point at which the "compelling state interest" (under the doctrine of strict scrutiny) in preserving potential life became possibly controlling, permitting states to freely regulate and even ban abortion after the 28th week.[24] The subsequent Planned Parenthood v. Casey (1992) modified the "trimester framework", permitting the states to regulate abortion in ways not posing an "undue burden" on the right of the mother to an abortion at any point before viability; on account of technological developments between 1973 and 1992, viability itself was legally dissociated from the hard line of 28 weeks, leaving the point at which "undue burdens" were permissible variable depending on the technology of the time and the judgement of the state legislatures.

Quoting an overturned ruling from 1973?

Traditional thinking is not applicable when science has advanced.

And you keep on proving your opinion is nothing more than arbitrary

 

[whutTHEYsay]

HeyNorm239119-#6,795 • Viable and not viable is only determinable if the fetus is killed and an autopsy is performed.
•
Blues Man230127-#375 IMO once development reaches the stage of fetal viability outside the womb ••••••
^^
HeyNorm230128-#376 In all seriousness, how does one determine that, short of an autopsy.
^^
NFBW230128-#6,967 - No autopsies are ever needed because viability is in regards to potential life.
^^
NFBW230128-#6,967 There is no way HeyNorm to perform an autopsy on potential life prior to actual birth life.
^^
beagle9230129-#6,971 So you're saying that an autopsy isn't needed, but I ask you why.

NFBW: You often get confused beagle9 when you pick out one word and remove it from the context of the statement in which it is used such as the context of the full exchange of ideas that I have labored to repost for your convenience and intellectual growth because that would benefit our civilization greatly if you ever decide to benefit from my work.

In this exchange you chose to die on the sword of the word “autopsy” as it refers to perinatal autopsy I presume.

Let me be clear that I was not telling HeyNorm that perinatal autopsies are never needed. The following leads me to accept the results of perinatal autopsies to be necessary and valuable knowledge for civilized humans to acquire.
•

There are numerous studies that have examined the value of the perinatal autopsy.17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0146000514001232#:~:text=For%20a%20previable%20fetus%20%28%3C23%20weeks׳%20gestation%29%2C%20the,main%20indications%20for%20autopsy%20is%20intrauterine%20fetal%20demise.The most common “value” outcomes that are examined in these studies are (1) Did the autopsy provide a new main diagnosis or change the main clinical diagnosis? (2) Did the autopsy provide additional secondary diagnoses that were clinically unexpected and may have led to a change in management or counseling?​

​

My reply to HeyNorm was that “no autopsies are ever needed because viability is in regards to potential life.”

I am quite certain that all you read was “NO autopsies are ever needed” I do not know if you have an impairment or if you are attempting to have a viable argunent by using dishonest or deceptive means.

END2301291008

 

[HeyNorm]

HeyNorm239119-#6,795 • Viable and not viable is only determinable if the fetus is killed and an autopsy is performed.
•
Blues Man230127-#375 IMO once development reaches the stage of fetal viability outside the womb ••••••
^^
HeyNorm230128-#376 In all seriousness, how does one determine that, short of an autopsy.
^^
NFBW230128-#6,967 - No autopsies are ever needed because viability is in regards to potential life.
^^
NFBW230128-#6,967 There is no way HeyNorm to perform an autopsy on potential life prior to actual birth life.
^^
beagle9230129-#6,971 So you're saying that an autopsy isn't needed, but I ask you why.

NFBW: You often get confused beagle9 when you pick out one word and remove it from the context of the statement in which it is used such as the context of the full exchange of ideas that I have labored to repost for your convenience and intellectual growth because that would benefit our civilization greatly if you ever decide to benefit from my work.

In this exchange you chose to die on the sword of the word “autopsy” as it refers to perinatal autopsy I presume.

Let me be clear that I was not telling HeyNorm that perinatal autopsies are never needed. The following sounds to me to be necessary and valuable knowledge fir civilized humans to have.
•

There are numerous studies that have examined the value of the perinatal autopsy.17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0146000514001232#:~:text=For%20a%20previable%20fetus%20%28%3C23%20weeks׳%20gestation%29%2C%20the,main%20indications%20for%20autopsy%20is%20intrauterine%20fetal%20demise.The most common “value” outcomes that are examined in these studies are (1) Did the autopsy provide a new main diagnosis or change the main clinical diagnosis? (2) Did the autopsy provide additional secondary diagnoses that were clinically unexpected and may have led to a change in management or counseling?​

​

My reply to HeyNorm was that “no autopsies are ever needed because viability is in regards to potential life.”

I am quite certain that all you read was “NO autopsies are ever needed” I do not know if you have an impairment or if you are attempting to have a viable argunent by using dishonest or deceptive means.

END2301291008

Wait, what? Viability is based on potential life? If it’s given the human trait of being viable, it must be human life! Fact.

Try again, and next time with your thinking cap on.

 

[Monk-Eye]

" Individual Decisions Versus Populism Dictates "

* Authoritarian Bemoaning An Inability To Enslave The Individual *

Why are you a former slave owner if only in your tormented mind ?

An enslavement would be forcing a woman to surrender self ownership decisions about progeny .

By principles of individualism one cannot surrender elements of self ownership ( free roam , free association , progeny ) to satisfy a debt incurred through self determination ( private property , willful intents by contract made valid with informed consent ) , which is to relate that enslavement is not allowed by principles of individualism .

A wright exists because there is an entity capable of issuing a retort for violations of its precepts .

By principles of perspectivism , there are no epistemological absolutes , though not all perspectives are equally valid , and while the principles of individualism are one of many perspectives , individualism is most consistent with independence when including equal protection of negative liberties among those entitled by live birth to receive them .

 

[Monk-Eye]

" Sedition And Traitors To Us Republic E Pluribus Unum Credo "

* Intellectually Retarded Offering Dumbfounded Conclusions *

Wait, what? Viability is based on potential life? If it’s given the human trait of being viable, it must be human life! Fact.
Try again, and next time with your thinking cap on.

The reference to " potential life " from the roe v wade decision , which the dumbfounded decision of sedition by scotus in dobbs impotently and incompetently understood , is an allusion to an ability for a fetus to survive an imminent live birth , which was substituted in lieu of a live birth requirement for equal protection with a citizen .

 

[HeyNorm]

" Sedition And Traitors To Us Republic E Pluribus Unum Credo "

* Intellectually Retarded Offering Conclusions Dumb As Rocks *

The reference to " potential life " from the roe v wade decision , which the dumbfounded decision of sedition by scotus in dobbs impotently and incompetently understood , is an allusion to an ability for a fetus to survive an imminent live birth , which was substituted in lieu of a live birth requirement for equal protection with a citizen .

The Roe V Wade decision was overturned, so your argument is based on “traditional values”

Loving, Windsor, and Obergfell, all threw out “Traditional Values” as reasoning for the denial of rights.

You are behind the times. But you do like holding headings!

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Quoting an overturned ruling from 1973?

The United States Supreme Court stated in Roe v. Wade (1973) that viability, defined as the "interim point at which the fetus becomes ... potentially able to live outside the mother's womb, albeit with artificial aid",[24] "i

NFBW: The Supreme Court’s Constitutional definition of viability for determining state interests in protecting the unborn was not overturned. Why do you think it was? I live in a state where there are not enough white Christian fundamentalists lawmakers who want to abuse women by taking away their reproductive rights prior to fetal viability at 24 weeks,

END2301291029