Robert E. Lee, American hero or American traitor?

[Mauser]

For the most part, history has been kind to Robert E. Lee and his role as the commanding General of the Confederate Army. There is very little criticism for the man who led the South against the Union but is that because Lee was truly a great man or is it because no one has dared to be critical of such a wildly popular southern gentleman?

I don't know how you could fault a man for fighting for the principles embodied in the Constitution at that time.

IMO, it was the north that had failed to live up to them and gave the south little choice but to fight.

 

[MasterChief]

Just a small point: our nation military cemetery, Arlington, is Robert E. Lee's former estate. Also General Grant was convinced that had it not been for Robbert E. Lee, the war could have degenerated into a longer guerrilla war. In my opinion, Robert E. Lee is an American hero.

The War Between the States was the necessary result of the ambiguities in our Constitution and founding and Lee sided with the principles he felt was right--if individuals have the right of free association and disassociation, then so do states. Lincoln felt once a state enters into an association with other states, they are no longer free to disassociation. Lincoln won, but it does not mean he was right.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

Actually, I don't believe Lee was fighting for lofty beliefs in what the Constitution allowed. He simply fighting for his beloved Virginia. Go to the South and ask people what the greatest state in the Union is. They will all answer with the one that they are from. Simple as that. IMO

 

[JimH52]

Lee was a much better General than Grant and he was sober most of the time. In Virginia is there a Lee-Jackson day honoring two Generals of the south. Now that holiday is followed by a holiday honoring Martin Luther King. Four day weekends are sweet.

 

[Mauser]

Lincoln felt once a state enters into an association with other states, they are no longer free to disassociation.

He didn't always feel that way, especially when he was in the House of Representatives.

An excerpt from a speech in 1848.

Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable,— most sacred right—a right, which we hope and believe, is to liberate the world.

Nor is this right confined to cases in which the whole people of an existing government, may choose to exercise it. Any portion of such people that can, may revolutionize, and make their own, of so much of the territory as they inhabit.

More than this, a majority of any portion of such people may revolutionize, putting down a minority, intermingled with, or near about them, who may oppose their movement. Such minority, was precisely the case, of the tories of our own revolution. It is a quality of revolutions not to go by old lines, or old laws; but to break up both, and make new ones.

 

[MasterChief]

Actually, I don't believe Lee was fighting for lofty beliefs in what the Constitution allowed. He simply fighting for his beloved Virginia. Go to the South and ask people what the greatest state in the Union is. They will all answer with the one that they are from. Simple as that. IMO

I don't have to "go to the South and ask people...", I am from the South and a military historian. As Shelby Foote was fond of saying prior to the war the United States are...but after it was the United States is... and if you'll read Lee's writings it is obvious his view is that each state is a free, separate, autonomous entity, just like an individual, and that was a commonly held view of day. In my opinion, General Lee's understanding of the Constitution was far greater than you are giving him credit. A West Point education was nothing to snuff at then or now.

 

[MasterChief]

He didn't always feel that way, especially when he was in the House of Representatives.

What you say is very true, but 1848 is a life time from April 1861. Once the bombing took place in Charleston harbor, the full horror of what could happen to the country struck Lincoln right between the eyes.

 

[editec]

Robert E. Lee, American hero or American traitor?

Both

 

[CrimsonWhite]

I don't have to "go to the South and ask people...", I am from the South and a military historian. As Shelby Foote was fond of saying prior to the war the United States are...but after it was the United States is... and if you'll read Lee's writings it is obvious his view is that each state is a free, separate, autonomous entity, just like an individual, and that was a commonly held view of day. In my opinion, General Lee's understanding of the Constitution was far greater than you are giving him credit. A West Point education was nothing to snuff at then or now.

You are correct. I promise you that I was not diminishing Lee's intellect or his understanding of the Constitution. Reading his writings will show you a man conflicted between love of Country and love of State. Belief in a sovereign state and a belief in a strong nation. I believe his decision simply came down to the fact that he loved Virginia.

 

[Luissa]

No he wouldn't he gave his word not to fight again and that was all that needed. Now if it were Bill Clinton on the other hand the only safe thing to do would be to shoot him. How do you know that Bill Clinton is lying? Answer: He is wasting Oxygen.

Nice answer because Bill Clinton is just so similar to this subject!

 

[editec]

The Civil WAR was inevitable, I think.

The Floundering Fathers knew even as they were drafting the Constitution that the issue of slavery was going to be a problem for this nation. Many of them ALSO knew that slavery was evil even though they found themselves having to defend its continuation.

Even Randolph, probably the most eleqant spokeman for the rights of the slave states understood that slavery wouldn't last forever, and that it was fatally flawed.

But he faced, just as the people in 1860 faced, that unhappy fact that the majority of capital in the SOUTH was in the form of human beings as slaves.

Facing the bankrptsy of their societies, facing the destruction of a social order they were trying to forge against all odds, they made their bargain with the Devil and the Devil got his due in 1861.

 

[Mauser]

What you say is very true, but 1848 is a life time from April 1861. Once the bombing took place in Charleston harbor, the full horror of what could happen to the country struck Lincoln right between the eyes.

I believe that's why it's important to have a set of core values.

With regards to Lincoln.....his seems to have changed with the political winds.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

I wouldn't call him an American hero, but he's no traitor. The southern states had every right to secede from the Union, and it makes sense that a man would support his own state.

 

[MasterChief]

I believe that's why it's important to have a set of core values.

With regards to Lincoln.....his seems to have changed with the political winds.

I could not agree more and his belief that the federal governments interests trumps the state is what made the US strong enough to fight a two front war and win eighty years later. However, it is now the philosophy behind much of present political and financial crisis--when the president can appoint one man to "insure" the financial well being of the country, we've gone too far.

 

[Luissa]

The Civil WAR was inevitable, I think.

The Floundering Fathers knew even as they were drafting the Constitution that the issue of slavery was going to be a problem for this nation. Many of them ALSO knew that slavery was evil even though they found themselves having to defend its continuation.

Even Randolph, probably the most eleqant spokeman for the rights of the slave states understood that slavery wouldn't last forever, and that it was fatally flawed.

But he faced, just as the people in 1860 faced, that unhappy fact that the majority of capital in the SOUTH was in the form of human beings as slaves.

Facing the bankrptsy of their societies, facing the destruction of a social order they were trying to forge against all odds, they made their bargain with the Devil and the Devil got his due in 1861.

Both George Washington and Thomas Jefferson owned slaves. And the slave population was always a large number from almost the beginning of slave trade. One of the reason they need slaves in Virginia was due to the fact the English kept dying from disease. We were also one of the last countries to outlaw slavery!
And who do you think traded the largest number of slaves?

 

[wayne]

No he wouldn't he gave his word not to fight again and that was all that needed. Now if it were Bill Clinton on the other hand the only safe thing to do would be to shoot him. How do you know that Bill Clinton is lying? Answer: He is wasting Oxygen.

The difference between General Lee and Bill Clinton promise is like night and day. The difference is Robert's word would have been as good as gold where as Clinton' word would be worth less than a load of cow poop.

 

[Luissa]

The difference between General Lee and Bill Clinton promise is like night and day. The difference is Robert's word would have been as good as gold where as Clinton' word would be worth less than a load of cow poop.

I didn't know we were comparing Robert and Bill here! Like I stated before what does Bill have to do with this? And way to go quoting yourself.

 

[MasterChief]

Listen, no political philosophical system is free of a Dark Side. The founding fathers realized this which is why they tried to create a system with checks and balances. However, they were fully aware that anything created by human hands will eventually fail. That is why some felt that the tree of liberty must be watered with blood of patriots from time to time.

Robert E. Lee was seduced by the Dark Side for a time, but he was a hero in Mexican-American War and a hero after the War Between the States by refusing to support a protracted guerrilla war. What he did the first Sunday home after the surrender is a story of courage and honor, and the story of true American hero.

 

[Sunni Man]

and the story of true American hero.

Give me a break!!!

If Lee did the same thing today. He would be considered a traitor and would be in a prison like GITMO awaiting execution.

 

[Luissa]

Give me a break!!!

If Lee did the same thing today. He would be considered a traitor and would be in a prison like GITMO awaiting execution.

He is a confederate hero! He could of been a American Hero if he would have stayed with the union. Now is home is a cemetary!