Reid calls illegals “12 million undocumented Americans

red states rule

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It is not only Pres Bush who wants to open the flood gates to illegals


Video: Reid calls illegals “12 million undocumented Americans” Update: video addedposted at 8:59 pm on June 5, 2007 by Bryan
Send to a Friend | printer-friendly Sen. Harry Reid calls the estimated 12 million undocumented immigrants “12 million undocumented Americans” in the video embedded prominently on the front page of his web site right now. Giving the video that position removes the possibility that Reid merely misspoke. It’s what he meant to say.
Which means that he’s far, far out in front on the amnesty gambit. He already thinks of anyone who gets here by hook or by crook as an American, a citizen.


For the video

http://hotair.com/archives/2007/06/05/video-reid-calls-illegals-12-million-undocumented-americans/
 

Toro

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Good for the 12 million illegals.

If they risk their lives getting here, let them stay.

Most Americans wouldn't dare take the journey that these illegals take to come here.
 

ScreamingEagle

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I want to become undocumented too!

If it's OK for foreigners to live, work, be eligible for services, and vote within our borders without documentation then I don't think I should have to supply anybody, including the government, with a social security number, a voting card, or even a driver's license. How about if I do everything on my library card? :lol:
 

theHawk

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Good for the 12 million illegals.

If they risk their lives getting here, let them stay.

Most Americans wouldn't dare take the journey that these illegals take to come here.
Its a huge exaggeration to say all these millions of people "risked their lives" to get here. Running across open desert or being stuffed in a trunk of a car for a few hours isn't "risking their lives". Do we have people at the border opening fire on these people as they make a mad dash across the border? Are their lives at risk if they get caught by the border patrol? Who are you kidding, they are simply turned back over the mexican side so they can just keep trying until they don't get caught.
 

actsnoblemartin

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So, if i have the courage, to cross the border illegally into mexico. I should get free emergency medical, free education for my kids, and other free benefits, because i was brave enough to brake the law, spit on the face of the county and citizens, by saying to them, you owe me all the benefits you earned, by actually being a legal citizen, because I could sneak into the country, and the poor person, who followed the rules couldnt..

Good for the 12 million illegals.

If they risk their lives getting here, let them stay.

Most Americans wouldn't dare take the journey that these illegals take to come here.
 

actsnoblemartin

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That is the one of the most insane things ive ever heard. Heck toro, following your conclusion to its logical end, lets have an open border and let anyone and everyone who wants to come in, come in, because, they had to violate our laws/soverenty, and rip us off, so they could have an easy life without doing anything to earn it.

Youre using your heart way to much, and youre brain not enough

im sorry, but what you said sounds idiotic.
Good for the 12 million illegals.

If they risk their lives getting here, let them stay.

Most Americans wouldn't dare take the journey that these illegals take to come here.
 

actsnoblemartin

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Toro is a perfect example of what is wrong with liberalism, it doesnt use logic and reason, instead it uses feelings. And while logic and reason can be thought out, and changed appropriately, sometimes. Feelings change rapidly and often, and are often irrational.

we are going bankrupt, because of illegals, if they get citizenship, we have to pay them social security and remember that going bankrupt, how about we add 12-20 million more people to the pay rolls :cuckoo:

Its a huge exaggeration to say all these millions of people "risked their lives" to get here. Running across open desert or being stuffed in a trunk of a car for a few hours isn't "risking their lives". Do we have people at the border opening fire on these people as they make a mad dash across the border? Are their lives at risk if they get caught by the border patrol? Who are you kidding, they are simply turned back over the mexican side so they can just keep trying until they don't get caught.
 

actsnoblemartin

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you know if illegals dont have to follow the law, and can steal my social security number, to work here illegally, why cant i rape, lie, steal, and do whatever i want?. What illegals are special because they are mostly hispanic and im not because im white?. That is racist, cough la raza sucks monkey balls, cough.
I want to become undocumented too!

If it's OK for foreigners to live, work, be eligible for services, and vote within our borders without documentation then I don't think I should have to supply anybody, including the government, with a social security number, a voting card, or even a driver's license. How about if I do everything on my library card? :lol:
 

actsnoblemartin

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Rsr, once again, you have proven one thing very clear, you are right :)




It is not only Pres Bush who wants to open the flood gates to illegals


Video: Reid calls illegals “12 million undocumented Americans” Update: video addedposted at 8:59 pm on June 5, 2007 by Bryan
Send to a Friend | printer-friendly Sen. Harry Reid calls the estimated 12 million undocumented immigrants “12 million undocumented Americans” in the video embedded prominently on the front page of his web site right now. Giving the video that position removes the possibility that Reid merely misspoke. It’s what he meant to say.
Which means that he’s far, far out in front on the amnesty gambit. He already thinks of anyone who gets here by hook or by crook as an American, a citizen.


For the video

http://hotair.com/archives/2007/06/05/video-reid-calls-illegals-12-million-undocumented-americans/
 

SolarEnergy1

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It is not only Pres Bush who wants to open the flood gates to illegals


Video: Reid calls illegals “12 million undocumented Americans” Update: video addedposted at 8:59 pm on June 5, 2007 by Bryan
Send to a Friend | printer-friendly Sen. Harry Reid calls the estimated 12 million undocumented immigrants “12 million undocumented Americans” in the video embedded prominently on the front page of his web site right now. Giving the video that position removes the possibility that Reid merely misspoke. It’s what he meant to say.
Which means that he’s far, far out in front on the amnesty gambit. He already thinks of anyone who gets here by hook or by crook as an American, a citizen.


For the video

http://hotair.com/archives/2007/06/05/video-reid-calls-illegals-12-million-undocumented-americans/
Would it be possible for congress to come up with a plan to round them all up and deport the illegals?
 

theHawk

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It would be unnesessary to go round them up. Many end up in our prison system as it is with violent crimes or breaking other laws. If we actually punished employers that hire these people then the demand for them would go away.
 

hjmick

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Just imagine if there were 12 million fewer people in the U.S. buying gas for their cars...
 

ScreamingEagle

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Would it be possible for congress to come up with a plan to round them all up and deport the illegals?
Sure, why not? especially if congress made it unwelcoming to the aliens by denying them costly state services on top of kicking out the obvious ones like the criminals, etc. We could provide one way buses across the fence-guarded border. Things would start looking greener to them on the other side of the fence. Millions would just leave on their own and go back to Mexico if they knew they could not work or get free medical care and welfare services.

But Congress does not have the will. And they are not listening to the will of the people either... on both sides of party lines.
 

Toro

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That is the one of the most insane things ive ever heard. Heck toro, following your conclusion to its logical end, lets have an open border and let anyone and everyone who wants to come in, come in, because, they had to violate our laws/soverenty, and rip us off, so they could have an easy life without doing anything to earn it.

Youre using your heart way to much, and youre brain not enough

im sorry, but what you said sounds idiotic.
This is a myth. Most immigrants who come to America are hard-working and contribute to society.

This notion is being sold in particular by the Heritage Foundation, which once favored liberal immigration but now is pitching a study by Robert Rector claiming that households headed by low-skilled immigrants use $89 billion more in government services than they pay in taxes. We'd be worried too if this were true, but a tour of the serious economic literature shows it isn't.

The Heritage study calculates the impact only of low-skilled immigrants, those without a high school degree. This group accounts for about one-third of all U.S. immigrants. Higher-skilled immigrants are indisputably fiscal bargains because they have high earnings and pay taxes under the highly progressive American tax code. ...

Most studies also agree that the fiscal impact of the overall immigration population -- roughly 30 million people -- is also positive. In a comprehensive 1997 study, the National Academy of Sciences concluded that over their lifetimes immigrants and their children pay an estimated $80,000 more in taxes to all levels of government than they receive in benefits. ...

The debate is over the impact of the lowest skilled immigrants -- the 4.5 million heads of households, legal and illegal, who don't hold a high school degree. The Heritage study, which has become grist for talk radio, overstates the costs of immigrants.

First, of the estimated $19,588 of government benefits collected by low-skilled immigrant households each year, $8,462 -- or 43% -- are the cost for educating children. This leads to a strange logic. Under the Heritage cost-benefit framework, children are financial burdens to society and the surest way to balance the budget would be for Americans to stop having kids.

One of every four children born in America has an immigrant mother, but Mr. Rector is guilty of single-entry bookkeeping: He counts the costs of educating these children of immigrants but he fails to count the taxes they pay as adults. This is a major oversight because scholars have consistently shown that the children of immigrants tend to be the highest achievers and earners of all generations.

A study by economist Adam Zaretsky of the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis compared the earnings and taxes of three groups: the native-born, immigrants, and the children of immigrants. He found that "Recent immigrants pay the least [taxes], but their children, who tend to make more money and live in high-income/high-tax states, pay the most."

David Card recently showed, for the National Bureau of Economic Research, that "of the 39 largest country-of-origin groups, sons from 33 groups and daughters from 32 groups have higher average educational attainment than the children of natives. . . . Evidence of the intergenerational progress of immigrants' children points to above-average levels of education even for children whose fathers had much lower schooling than native-born fathers." This is powerful evidence of the economic assimilation of the children of immigrant parents.

Mr. Rector also reports that the average low-skilled immigrant household collects $4,891 in Social Security and Medicare annually. But even conceding his figures, Social Security is a pay-as-you-go system. Retiree benefits are financed by the payroll taxes of current workers. Immigrants subsidize Social Security and Medicare because they pay taxes for 30 or 40 years without any parent collecting a monthly benefit check. This provides a one-generation net windfall -- an insight first pointed out in a 1984 study by the late economist Julian Simon and published by . . . the Heritage Foundation.

The Social Security Administration trustees agree with the original Heritage study (Simon's) and conclude in their latest actuarial report that the unfunded liabilities of Social Security "decrease with increasing rates of net immigration . . . Each additional 100,000 net immigrants increase the long-range actuarial balance by about 0.07 percent of taxable payroll."

What does that mean for the Treasury? The net present value of the net payroll taxes paid over benefits received from one million immigrants per year is just shy of $2 trillion through 2080. Even low-skilled immigrants are net contributors to the trust fund. ...

Heritage once made this point itself, notably in a 1998 study by economist William Beach, who calculated that Hispanics -- especially young, single males -- pay far more into Social Security than they receive over their lifetimes. Mr. Beach found that, in 1997 dollars, a typical Hispanic couple would receive $347,000 less in lifetime benefits than they pay in, allowing for a normal rate of return on payroll taxes. Maybe Heritage ought to dust off those intellectual archives, unless it's decided to bend to the fashions of the moment.

Correcting for this overstatement of retirement and education costs erases most of Mr. Rector's alleged fiscal deficit. What about the other $30 billion or so a year? Well, it turns out that about six of 10 native-born American households also receive more in government services than they pay in taxes. No one would suggest that 60% of native-born Americans are economic drains; why conclude this of low-skilled immigrants?

More broadly, the Rector study ignores that immigrants make economic contributions beyond net tax or benefit payments. One is that immigrants lower costs of production and thus reduce consumer prices, which in turn increase the real income of Americans.

A second benefit is that the labor provided by low-skilled immigrants complements the skills of native-born Americans, thus raising everyone's productivity and output. A 2006 National Bureau of Economic Research study noted that "immigrants stimulate investment, have skill sets and educational levels that complement those of natives, and do not compete for the same jobs as most natives." Immigration increased the average wages of all native-born workers in the 1990s by 1.1%, except those who did not have a high school diploma.

The President's Council of Economic Advisers recently added up all these benefits, updating the procedures used by the National Academy of Sciences, and concluded that the value of immigrants to the overall economy is a net positive $30 billion a year. Any such number is by its nature a general estimate, but the key point is that immigrants are an overall economic plus, not a drain.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118126594280728610.html?mod=todays_us_opinion
 

Eightball

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Good for the 12 million illegals.

If they risk their lives getting here, let them stay.

Most Americans wouldn't dare take the journey that these illegals take to come here.
This ain't nothing compared to the East Berliners that got mowed down by Ak47's when the tried to get into West Berlin from East Berlin by breaching the Berlin Wall.

I think those East Berliners would just plain sigh or laugh in the face of those who hire "Coyotes" to truck them or guide them over the border, for $$.

They were just trying to enter their own country, not illegally enter another sovereign country illegally.
******
Also, those from the South didn't come from the all over Europe in the late 1800's and early 1900's and enter legally via Ellis island, and allow doctors to investigate their health status, and possibly quarantine them or send them back across the Atlantic.

My grand parents on both sides went through Ellis Island, and they came to become Americans, and find opportunity via what they could contribute, not to suck the teats of our bountiful welfare system.

They didn't have folks proposing compassionate water drinking fountains in the middle of the dessert to help them break the laws of the U.S..

The same goes for those that entered our country from the Orient. Their holding place was Angel Island in the middle of San Francisco Bay.

Foreigners/aliens were screened for diseases, and criminal associations or tendencies.

Now we have all kinds of drug resistant strains of diseases rearing their dangerous heads in are country. Mumps is making a comeback as well as Hooping cough. This is directly attributed to unimmunized aliens being P.C.'d in our country.
*****
Yes, they are undocumented, but they are here because they broke U.S. immigration law, and that makes them illegally here.
*****
Can we bus the 12 million back over the border? Hardly!

We can do something about the existing 12 million that will force them to repay our society for the amnesty that they will inevitably get. It shouldn't be easy though. Those that are making something of their lives may have to pay some back taxes, if they have had to evade taxes to avoid being caught.

It is truly a "Catch 22", but we must do two things. Not chicken-out on securing the border, and policing it with an iron fist from now on, but at the same time, make illegal entry not a reward to those 12 million.
******
Just remember something. In Great Britain, the most popular name for a baby boy last year was "Jack". This year it was announced that "Mohammed" will surpass, "Jack". I think France already surpassed Claude or Jean, with "Mohammed" some years ago.
****
This ain't an alien or immigrant bashing reply, but an attempt to look objectively at immigration.

Our country can only handle an influx of immigrants at a certain rate, or we over tax our government services, and also push our culture to quickly with integrating these folks of different culture and language.
*****
Most of these folks don't come here looking for a democracy or a republic, but are looking for the almighty dollar.

My grandparents came here for the politcial freedom, and the chance to enjoy liberty, and a democratic country whose government actually worked for the people, by the people.
 

Gunny

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It is not only Pres Bush who wants to open the flood gates to illegals


Video: Reid calls illegals “12 million undocumented Americans” Update: video addedposted at 8:59 pm on June 5, 2007 by Bryan
Send to a Friend | printer-friendly Sen. Harry Reid calls the estimated 12 million undocumented immigrants “12 million undocumented Americans” in the video embedded prominently on the front page of his web site right now. Giving the video that position removes the possibility that Reid merely misspoke. It’s what he meant to say.
Which means that he’s far, far out in front on the amnesty gambit. He already thinks of anyone who gets here by hook or by crook as an American, a citizen.

For the video

http://hotair.com/archives/2007/06/05/video-reid-calls-illegals-12-million-undocumented-americans/
They may very-well be 12 million undocumented Americans, but the fact remains they are in this country illegally; therefore, are criminals.

Which brings up the left-wing dilemna. DO they actually say they agree with Bush's plan? No. Do they jump on the oportunity for some bipartisan Bush-bashing regarding this topic? No.

They just don't what to do.:badgrin:
 

dilloduck

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They may very-well be 12 million undocumented Americans, but the fact remains they are in this country illegally; therefore, are criminals.

Which brings up the left-wing dilemna. DO they actually say they agree with Bush's plan? No. Do they jump on the oportunity for some bipartisan Bush-bashing regarding this topic? No.

They just don't what to do.:badgrin:
Agreed---someone needs to tell em what to think and Hillary pretends to be so anti-illegal that they don't know which way to jump. :lol:
 
OP
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Good for the 12 million illegals.

If they risk their lives getting here, let them stay.

Most Americans wouldn't dare take the journey that these illegals take to come here.
Wlking across a highway or climbing a fence is hardly risking their lives
 

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