Question for those that support sanctuary cities/states.

[Wyatt earp]

What kind of goofy post is this? So in your mind anyone everyone born in the world is an American and protected by the Constitution?

No if your not born in America and sneak in here or over stay your visa you are a criminal plane and simple

What's so complicated about it in your mind?

You should learn how to read the posts before being a dumb ass trying to pick a freaking board fight. Maybe you can join the retard that is much like you making irrelevant and easily disprovable points.

This country was founded on the principle that every person is born with unalienable Rights. What, in YOUR mind, is so hard to understand about that? Do you believe in Liberty? It's a simple yes or no.

We've tried what you advocate. It became very unpopular. Here is an excerpt from Wikipedia regarding Chinese laborers:

"Chinese immigrants in the 19th century worked as laborers, particularly on the transcontinental railroad, such as the Central Pacific Railroad. They also worked as laborers in the mining industry, and suffered racial discrimination at every level of society. While industrial employers were eager to get this new and cheap labor, the ordinary white public was stirred to anger by the presence of this "yellow peril". Despite the provisions for equal treatment of Chinese immigrants in the 1868 Burlingame Treaty, political and labor organizations rallied against the immigration of what they regarded as a degraded race and "cheap Chinese labor". Newspapers condemned the policies of employers, and even church leaders denounced the entrance of these aliens into what was regarded as a land for whites only. So hostile was the opposition that in 1882 the United States Congress eventually passed the Chinese Exclusion Act, which prohibited immigration from China for the next ten years. This law was then extended by the Geary Act in 1892. The Chinese Exclusion Act was the only U.S. law ever to prevent immigration and naturalization on the basis of race.[1] These laws not only prevented new immigration but also brought additional suffering as they prevented the reunion of the families of thousands of Chinese men already living in the United States (that is, men who had left China without their wives and children); anti-miscegenation laws in many states prohibited Chinese men from marrying white women."

History of Chinese Americans - Wikipedia

The one thing people like you should not do is to try to pee down our necks and tell us it's raining. You would like to see a wall go up, people deported, and then not allowed to return... You want to hide behind this thinly veiled technicality that they might be "illegals" though your kind would take a giant dump on the Constitution as well as the presumption of innocence rather than to sort it all out.

You hide behind what you really want because you lack the courage, intestinal fortitude and the ethical inclinations to be up front as to why you don't want foreigners here. And the truth is a better argument than this chicken squeeze of pretending to have your panties in a bunch over people trying to exercise a basic Liberty in an effort to feed their family in spite of some idiotic and ridiculous - AND UNENFORCEABLE laws that, IF you did get your way would cost all of us OUR RIGHTS. You can make all the arguments you want, but you cannot criminalize Liberty. Either mankind has unalienable Rights or they do not.

If the foreigner has no Liberty, neither do you. If the foreigner has no Rights to Life and Liberty, then you have NO Right to the Freedom of the Press, NO Freedom of Speech, NO Freedom of Religion, NO Right to Due Process, etc., etc. Man either gets his Rights from God or government. You sure as Hell don't get them from both.

If you want to make the argument that America was founded as a white country for the benefit of whites, you might have a more convincing argument. But, what you're expecting is for me to jump on your bandwagon and take a giant shit on my unalienable Rights in the process. It's not going to happen.

Their is no fight to pick you're an idiot , once again I ask you a simple question if I break into your house am I a criminal yes or no?

That is an irrelevant argument and it's dishonest.

Irrelevant my but, answer the question it's the same thing what you want is poor illegals to jump ahead of the from people who play by the rules and wait years to get year..



I have an idea go sneak into Mexico and see what happens..

You seem to know a lot about me or you are talking out your ass. Let me be up front and honest with you:

If YOU round up all the Hispanics and deport them to Mexico; ship all the blacks to Africa; deport the Muslims to Mecca, and put all the Jews on El AL with a one way ticket back to that sand pit in the Middle East, it probably wouldn't affect my life for the most part.

When you employ the government to enforce laws aimed at suppressing Liberty, while proclaiming for all men, you then develop a personal problem with me. I'm not submitting to tyranny by proxy. If you want to take away someone's Liberty with the use of government, it becomes a personal matter. The laws of stare decisis / precedent will not allow you to take away their Rights without attacking mine.

That's NOT going to happen. When the government comes after our Liberties, it is people like YOU that I will put the blame on.

What are you babbling about? We are talking illegal criminals here not legal immigrants . Get it through your head.

 

[Humorme]

Article 1, Section 9.
The migration or importation of such persons as any of the states now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a tax or duty may be imposed on such importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each person.

Relying on a section that has been stricken through doesn't bode well for your argument. You do know what the importation of people was right? The slave owner was charged $10 for bringing a slave into the State. SMFH

The Constitution also says "migration"

But if there is no longer a $10 limit on fees, why not charge $50,000? It would solve all the immigration problems!

Step 1 - Begin to realize that not everybody that washes up on our shores should become a citizen of the United States

Step 2 - Learn the difference between the Rights of man versus the privileges of citizenship

Step 3 - Limit ALL privileges of citizenship to citizens

Once you get that down you are ready for the next three.

 

[Humorme]

You should learn how to read the posts before being a dumb ass trying to pick a freaking board fight. Maybe you can join the retard that is much like you making irrelevant and easily disprovable points.

This country was founded on the principle that every person is born with unalienable Rights. What, in YOUR mind, is so hard to understand about that? Do you believe in Liberty? It's a simple yes or no.

We've tried what you advocate. It became very unpopular. Here is an excerpt from Wikipedia regarding Chinese laborers:

"Chinese immigrants in the 19th century worked as laborers, particularly on the transcontinental railroad, such as the Central Pacific Railroad. They also worked as laborers in the mining industry, and suffered racial discrimination at every level of society. While industrial employers were eager to get this new and cheap labor, the ordinary white public was stirred to anger by the presence of this "yellow peril". Despite the provisions for equal treatment of Chinese immigrants in the 1868 Burlingame Treaty, political and labor organizations rallied against the immigration of what they regarded as a degraded race and "cheap Chinese labor". Newspapers condemned the policies of employers, and even church leaders denounced the entrance of these aliens into what was regarded as a land for whites only. So hostile was the opposition that in 1882 the United States Congress eventually passed the Chinese Exclusion Act, which prohibited immigration from China for the next ten years. This law was then extended by the Geary Act in 1892. The Chinese Exclusion Act was the only U.S. law ever to prevent immigration and naturalization on the basis of race.[1] These laws not only prevented new immigration but also brought additional suffering as they prevented the reunion of the families of thousands of Chinese men already living in the United States (that is, men who had left China without their wives and children); anti-miscegenation laws in many states prohibited Chinese men from marrying white women."

History of Chinese Americans - Wikipedia

The one thing people like you should not do is to try to pee down our necks and tell us it's raining. You would like to see a wall go up, people deported, and then not allowed to return... You want to hide behind this thinly veiled technicality that they might be "illegals" though your kind would take a giant dump on the Constitution as well as the presumption of innocence rather than to sort it all out.

You hide behind what you really want because you lack the courage, intestinal fortitude and the ethical inclinations to be up front as to why you don't want foreigners here. And the truth is a better argument than this chicken squeeze of pretending to have your panties in a bunch over people trying to exercise a basic Liberty in an effort to feed their family in spite of some idiotic and ridiculous - AND UNENFORCEABLE laws that, IF you did get your way would cost all of us OUR RIGHTS. You can make all the arguments you want, but you cannot criminalize Liberty. Either mankind has unalienable Rights or they do not.

If the foreigner has no Liberty, neither do you. If the foreigner has no Rights to Life and Liberty, then you have NO Right to the Freedom of the Press, NO Freedom of Speech, NO Freedom of Religion, NO Right to Due Process, etc., etc. Man either gets his Rights from God or government. You sure as Hell don't get them from both.

If you want to make the argument that America was founded as a white country for the benefit of whites, you might have a more convincing argument. But, what you're expecting is for me to jump on your bandwagon and take a giant shit on my unalienable Rights in the process. It's not going to happen.

Their is no fight to pick you're an idiot , once again I ask you a simple question if I break into your house am I a criminal yes or no?

That is an irrelevant argument and it's dishonest.

Irrelevant my but, answer the question it's the same thing what you want is poor illegals to jump ahead of the from people who play by the rules and wait years to get year..



I have an idea go sneak into Mexico and see what happens..

You seem to know a lot about me or you are talking out your ass. Let me be up front and honest with you:

If YOU round up all the Hispanics and deport them to Mexico; ship all the blacks to Africa; deport the Muslims to Mecca, and put all the Jews on El AL with a one way ticket back to that sand pit in the Middle East, it probably wouldn't affect my life for the most part.

When you employ the government to enforce laws aimed at suppressing Liberty, while proclaiming for all men, you then develop a personal problem with me. I'm not submitting to tyranny by proxy. If you want to take away someone's Liberty with the use of government, it becomes a personal matter. The laws of stare decisis / precedent will not allow you to take away their Rights without attacking mine.

That's NOT going to happen. When the government comes after our Liberties, it is people like YOU that I will put the blame on.

What are you babbling about? We are talking illegal criminals here not legal immigrants . Get it through your head.

Until a person is arrested, booked, etc. then we are talking about people. That's what we're talking about.

If you expect us to believe you got your panties in a bunch over a technicality you don't understand, you're nuts. I can't force you to be right.

 

[Liquid Reigns]

Step 1 - Begin to realize that not everybody that washes up on our shores should become a citizen of the United States

Nobody thinks all that wash up on our shores are entitled to citizenship

Step 2 - Learn the difference between the Rights of man versus the privileges of citizenship

The rights of man are limited as granted by man in living within a society.

Step 3 - Limit ALL privileges of citizenship to citizens

Take away more of the states rights, screw the 10th Amendment. So much for you being a strict constructionist and a Constitutionalist. SMFH

Once you get that down you are ready for the next three.

YAWN

 

[Liquid Reigns]

Their is no fight to pick you're an idiot , once again I ask you a simple question if I break into your house am I a criminal yes or no?

That is an irrelevant argument and it's dishonest.

Irrelevant my but, answer the question it's the same thing what you want is poor illegals to jump ahead of the from people who play by the rules and wait years to get year..



I have an idea go sneak into Mexico and see what happens..

You seem to know a lot about me or you are talking out your ass. Let me be up front and honest with you:

If YOU round up all the Hispanics and deport them to Mexico; ship all the blacks to Africa; deport the Muslims to Mecca, and put all the Jews on El AL with a one way ticket back to that sand pit in the Middle East, it probably wouldn't affect my life for the most part.

When you employ the government to enforce laws aimed at suppressing Liberty, while proclaiming for all men, you then develop a personal problem with me. I'm not submitting to tyranny by proxy. If you want to take away someone's Liberty with the use of government, it becomes a personal matter. The laws of stare decisis / precedent will not allow you to take away their Rights without attacking mine.

That's NOT going to happen. When the government comes after our Liberties, it is people like YOU that I will put the blame on.

What are you babbling about? We are talking illegal criminals here not legal immigrants . Get it through your head.

Until a person is arrested, booked, etc. then we are talking about people. That's what we're talking about.

If you expect us to believe you got your panties in a bunch over a technicality you don't understand, you're nuts. I can't force you to be right.

Illegals are removed all the time without hearings, its called Expedited Removal, so much for due process. SMFH

 

[Wyatt earp]

Their is no fight to pick you're an idiot , once again I ask you a simple question if I break into your house am I a criminal yes or no?

That is an irrelevant argument and it's dishonest.

Irrelevant my but, answer the question it's the same thing what you want is poor illegals to jump ahead of the from people who play by the rules and wait years to get year..



I have an idea go sneak into Mexico and see what happens..

You seem to know a lot about me or you are talking out your ass. Let me be up front and honest with you:

If YOU round up all the Hispanics and deport them to Mexico; ship all the blacks to Africa; deport the Muslims to Mecca, and put all the Jews on El AL with a one way ticket back to that sand pit in the Middle East, it probably wouldn't affect my life for the most part.

When you employ the government to enforce laws aimed at suppressing Liberty, while proclaiming for all men, you then develop a personal problem with me. I'm not submitting to tyranny by proxy. If you want to take away someone's Liberty with the use of government, it becomes a personal matter. The laws of stare decisis / precedent will not allow you to take away their Rights without attacking mine.

That's NOT going to happen. When the government comes after our Liberties, it is people like YOU that I will put the blame on.

What are you babbling about? We are talking illegal criminals here not legal immigrants . Get it through your head.

Until a person is arrested, booked, etc. then we are talking about people. That's what we're talking about.

If you expect us to believe you got your panties in a bunch over a technicality you don't understand, you're nuts. I can't force you to be right.

We are talking about criminals here they know they are criminals...duh

 

[antifa]

85% of our crops will rot in the field without illegally migrant workers. They deserve sanctuary in all 50 states.

LOL, less than 50% of field workers are illegals, how do you then suppose over 85% of our crops will rot? SMFH
Many crops can be harvested with machines, its the up front expense to the farmer as to why he doesn't purchase them and not hire manual labor.

You have to include packing houses, slaughter houses (feed market), and restaurants. Without all these illegal workers, our economy will take a nose dive. The farmers will only be able to salvage about 15% of their crop.

Look what happened in Alabama.

Just for chits and giggles, what would you say if we tried this:

In Alabama, instead of keeping people in prison rotting away you create tax incentives for farmers to hire ex-cons on probation. Then, instead of just sticking people with a criminal record back on the street, they work a regular job for a season, getting some money together and preparing themselves to go back into society, getting a regular job and getting their lives together.

If those farm jobs were being taken by work - release prisoners who can't get any other job, doesn't that reduce the perceived need for so many foreign laborers?

Most states are already doing that. It's called slave labor. The courts keep the prisons filled so crony capitalism can continue pretending the taxpayer will never figurer [sic] out who is getting rich off their money.

This kind of 'post' belongs on the conspiracy forum.

What is your opinion thread doing in philosophy?

 

[Slyhunter]

How should illegal immigration be controlled? It seems that the mindset of the sanctuary city/state crowd is that once a person arrives illegally (or over stays a visa), that person should be welcomed to stay, establish permanent residence, become legally employed, receive government services, acquire a driver’s license, enroll children into public schools, and eventually seek citizenship and have the right to vote. In other words, the illegal immigrant is to be granted all the rights, benefits and protections as legal immigrants. How can we control immigration if we don’t treat illegal immigration as a crime and allow illegal immigrants to simply blend into our society? Also, if you believe we should have open boarders making all immigrants legal, just say so!

You asked for it so no name calling. I am right of center and have never voted for nor supported a liberal, democrat, or anyone left of center.

In my view there should be no such thing as "illegal immigration." As one of our founding fathers put it:

"An avidity to punish is always dangerous to liberty. It leads men to stretch, to misinterpret, and to misapply even the best of laws. He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." A Dissertation on the First Principles of Government (1795)

Early in America's history, people came from every corner of the earth to take advantage of opportunities willingly offered. At the same time, nobody except whites could become citizens.

Why we think that everybody that washes up on our shores should become a citizen, get a free education, be afforded welfare, be extended the privilege of voting and force their beliefs down our throats has always been a mystery to me - ESPECIALLY when those people fled somewhere to come here.

I've been kicked like a dog on these discussion boards because those advocating the ultimate POLICE STATE cannot see the end game for which they are fighting. Let us pretend that you win.

You build a wall. You kick out all the undocumented foreigners (you really want to call them expletive deleted) but, you call them "illegal aliens" when they've never been arrested much less convicted of a damn thing. So, anyway you kick them out along with their America born children. Lock the door on the wall and throw away the key. Problem solved. Right? Wrong.

The American born children of foreigners are American citizens whether we like it or not - agree with it or not. You send them back south of the border and in a few years they start showing up at the border with their Socialist Surveillance Number ...ooops. "Social Security Number" and a birth certificate. They want to come home. Sorry guys, you can't keep them out. They are American citizens and you cannot challenge their citizenship (ex post facto laws are prohibited in the Constitution.)

So, they start coming here in droves. They no longer speak English; they have no family support system (you deported that family); they will most likely have no money, education or job skills. Now what do you do? I've been asking this for a dozen or more years and have never gotten a direct / honest / realistic answer.

You can give me all that "open border" paranoia all you want, but that is only one question I have to counter you with. I do have well reasoned responses for you, IF we can get past the name calling, shouting, false allegations, the usual banter that ensues.

I have more questions along with a realistic way to eliminate the issue altogether.

but, you call them "illegal aliens" when they've neverbeen arrested much less convicted of a damn thing




What kind of retarded thinking is that?


They cross our borders illegally they are criminals


They over stay their visas they are criminals

No sir, they absolutely are NOT criminals. What's retarded in this country are stupid people who ignore the Constitution of the United States and some fundamental principles. I keep quoting Tom Paine, one of our country's founders. When it comes to anti-immigrants, they can't understand it. Let me repeat it, then I'll explain it to you:

"An avidity to punish is always dangerous to liberty. It leads men to stretch, to misinterpret, and to misapply even the best of laws. He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." A Dissertation on the First Principles of Government (1795)

The FIRST misapplication of the law is that insist on calling undocumented foreigners "illegal aliens" and assure us they are criminals and so forth. They take the entire concept of innocent until proven guilty / presumption of innocence and toss it out the window.

When that precedent is used on them, they scratch their heads and if it happens to be them, they are really pissed with the LEO community. People are raging mad in the United States at the LEOs. How can they beat people in the streets and even shoot them without due process?

The real reason that stuff happens is that the anti-immigrant lobby and the Tea Party types envision a total POLICE STATE for America. They love the idea of cops watching them 24 / 7 / 365. They like the idea of the pee test, blood test, driver's license, Socialist Security Number ...ooops "Social Security Number," birth certificate, criminal background check, credit check, drones in the sky and zero constitutional protections against warrant-less search and seizures.

Under our constitutional / legal / dejure U.S. Constitution everybody is entitled to the equal protection of the laws. See the 14th Amendment. IF a foreigner is a criminal absent due process then EVERY AMERICAN IS GUILTY OF SOME KIND OF CRIME. A cop once told me that if you don't have a record, it's only because you haven't been caught yet.

I can thank people like you for this atmosphere of fear, paranoia, and what is little more than a National Socialist approach to the issues at hand... all which was a great deflection to keep from answering MY question.

What kind of goofy post is this? So in your mind anyone everyone born in the world is an American and protected by the Constitution?

No if your not born in America and sneak in here or over stay your visa you are a criminal plane and simple

What's so complicated about it in your mind?

You should learn how to read the posts before being a dumb ass trying to pick a freaking board fight. Maybe you can join the retard that is much like you making irrelevant and easily disprovable points.

This country was founded on the principle that every person is born with unalienable Rights. What, in YOUR mind, is so hard to understand about that? Do you believe in Liberty? It's a simple yes or no.

We've tried what you advocate. It became very unpopular. Here is an excerpt from Wikipedia regarding Chinese laborers:

"Chinese immigrants in the 19th century worked as laborers, particularly on the transcontinental railroad, such as the Central Pacific Railroad. They also worked as laborers in the mining industry, and suffered racial discrimination at every level of society. While industrial employers were eager to get this new and cheap labor, the ordinary white public was stirred to anger by the presence of this "yellow peril". Despite the provisions for equal treatment of Chinese immigrants in the 1868 Burlingame Treaty, political and labor organizations rallied against the immigration of what they regarded as a degraded race and "cheap Chinese labor". Newspapers condemned the policies of employers, and even church leaders denounced the entrance of these aliens into what was regarded as a land for whites only. So hostile was the opposition that in 1882 the United States Congress eventually passed the Chinese Exclusion Act, which prohibited immigration from China for the next ten years. This law was then extended by the Geary Act in 1892. The Chinese Exclusion Act was the only U.S. law ever to prevent immigration and naturalization on the basis of race.[1] These laws not only prevented new immigration but also brought additional suffering as they prevented the reunion of the families of thousands of Chinese men already living in the United States (that is, men who had left China without their wives and children); anti-miscegenation laws in many states prohibited Chinese men from marrying white women."

History of Chinese Americans - Wikipedia

The one thing people like you should not do is to try to pee down our necks and tell us it's raining. You would like to see a wall go up, people deported, and then not allowed to return... You want to hide behind this thinly veiled technicality that they might be "illegals" though your kind would take a giant dump on the Constitution as well as the presumption of innocence rather than to sort it all out.

You hide behind what you really want because you lack the courage, intestinal fortitude and the ethical inclinations to be up front as to why you don't want foreigners here. And the truth is a better argument than this chicken squeeze of pretending to have your panties in a bunch over people trying to exercise a basic Liberty in an effort to feed their family in spite of some idiotic and ridiculous - AND UNENFORCEABLE laws that, IF you did get your way would cost all of us OUR RIGHTS. You can make all the arguments you want, but you cannot criminalize Liberty. Either mankind has unalienable Rights or they do not.

If the foreigner has no Liberty, neither do you. If the foreigner has no Rights to Life and Liberty, then you have NONE. If they have NO Right to the Freedom of the Press, NO Freedom of Speech, NO Freedom of Religion, NO Right to Due Process, etc., etc. neither do you. Man either gets his Rights from God or government. You sure as Hell don't get them from both.

If you want to make the argument that America was founded as a white country for the benefit of whites, you might have a more convincing argument. But, what you're expecting is for me to jump on your bandwagon and take a giant shit on my unalienable Rights in the process. It's not going to happen.

For me it has nothing to do with Race. Mexican, Chinese, German, I don't fucking care. For me it is my ability to provide for my family. I do what is best for myself and my family. I want laws passed that help me and my family thrive. And what doesn't help me and my family thrive is people coming here and doing work I used too do for less money than I did it. It is really that simple. Americans first. Not whites first, I'll take Mexicans and blacks and purples already on team America as a part of my team and of whom I'm fighting/arguing for. But no foreigners. Not until every American who wants a job has a job with a living wage!

 

[Slyhunter]

You asked for it so no name calling. I am right of center and have never voted for nor supported a liberal, democrat, or anyone left of center.

In my view there should be no such thing as "illegal immigration." As one of our founding fathers put it:

"An avidity to punish is always dangerous to liberty. It leads men to stretch, to misinterpret, and to misapply even the best of laws. He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." A Dissertation on the First Principles of Government (1795)

Early in America's history, people came from every corner of the earth to take advantage of opportunities willingly offered. At the same time, nobody except whites could become citizens.

Why we think that everybody that washes up on our shores should become a citizen, get a free education, be afforded welfare, be extended the privilege of voting and force their beliefs down our throats has always been a mystery to me - ESPECIALLY when those people fled somewhere to come here.

I've been kicked like a dog on these discussion boards because those advocating the ultimate POLICE STATE cannot see the end game for which they are fighting. Let us pretend that you win.

You build a wall. You kick out all the undocumented foreigners (you really want to call them expletive deleted) but, you call them "illegal aliens" when they've never been arrested much less convicted of a damn thing. So, anyway you kick them out along with their America born children. Lock the door on the wall and throw away the key. Problem solved. Right? Wrong.

The American born children of foreigners are American citizens whether we like it or not - agree with it or not. You send them back south of the border and in a few years they start showing up at the border with their Socialist Surveillance Number ...ooops. "Social Security Number" and a birth certificate. They want to come home. Sorry guys, you can't keep them out. They are American citizens and you cannot challenge their citizenship (ex post facto laws are prohibited in the Constitution.)

So, they start coming here in droves. They no longer speak English; they have no family support system (you deported that family); they will most likely have no money, education or job skills. Now what do you do? I've been asking this for a dozen or more years and have never gotten a direct / honest / realistic answer.

You can give me all that "open border" paranoia all you want, but that is only one question I have to counter you with. I do have well reasoned responses for you, IF we can get past the name calling, shouting, false allegations, the usual banter that ensues.

I have more questions along with a realistic way to eliminate the issue altogether.

but, you call them "illegal aliens" when they've neverbeen arrested much less convicted of a damn thing




What kind of retarded thinking is that?


They cross our borders illegally they are criminals


They over stay their visas they are criminals

No sir, they absolutely are NOT criminals. What's retarded in this country are stupid people who ignore the Constitution of the United States and some fundamental principles. I keep quoting Tom Paine, one of our country's founders. When it comes to anti-immigrants, they can't understand it. Let me repeat it, then I'll explain it to you:

"An avidity to punish is always dangerous to liberty. It leads men to stretch, to misinterpret, and to misapply even the best of laws. He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." A Dissertation on the First Principles of Government (1795)

The FIRST misapplication of the law is that insist on calling undocumented foreigners "illegal aliens" and assure us they are criminals and so forth. They take the entire concept of innocent until proven guilty / presumption of innocence and toss it out the window.

When that precedent is used on them, they scratch their heads and if it happens to be them, they are really pissed with the LEO community. People are raging mad in the United States at the LEOs. How can they beat people in the streets and even shoot them without due process?

The real reason that stuff happens is that the anti-immigrant lobby and the Tea Party types envision a total POLICE STATE for America. They love the idea of cops watching them 24 / 7 / 365. They like the idea of the pee test, blood test, driver's license, Socialist Security Number ...ooops "Social Security Number," birth certificate, criminal background check, credit check, drones in the sky and zero constitutional protections against warrant-less search and seizures.

Under our constitutional / legal / dejure U.S. Constitution everybody is entitled to the equal protection of the laws. See the 14th Amendment. IF a foreigner is a criminal absent due process then EVERY AMERICAN IS GUILTY OF SOME KIND OF CRIME. A cop once told me that if you don't have a record, it's only because you haven't been caught yet.

I can thank people like you for this atmosphere of fear, paranoia, and what is little more than a National Socialist approach to the issues at hand... all which was a great deflection to keep from answering MY question.

What kind of goofy post is this? So in your mind anyone everyone born in the world is an American and protected by the Constitution?

No if your not born in America and sneak in here or over stay your visa you are a criminal plane and simple

What's so complicated about it in your mind?

You should learn how to read the posts before being a dumb ass trying to pick a freaking board fight. Maybe you can join the retard that is much like you making irrelevant and easily disprovable points.

This country was founded on the principle that every person is born with unalienable Rights. What, in YOUR mind, is so hard to understand about that? Do you believe in Liberty? It's a simple yes or no.

We've tried what you advocate. It became very unpopular. Here is an excerpt from Wikipedia regarding Chinese laborers:

"Chinese immigrants in the 19th century worked as laborers, particularly on the transcontinental railroad, such as the Central Pacific Railroad. They also worked as laborers in the mining industry, and suffered racial discrimination at every level of society. While industrial employers were eager to get this new and cheap labor, the ordinary white public was stirred to anger by the presence of this "yellow peril". Despite the provisions for equal treatment of Chinese immigrants in the 1868 Burlingame Treaty, political and labor organizations rallied against the immigration of what they regarded as a degraded race and "cheap Chinese labor". Newspapers condemned the policies of employers, and even church leaders denounced the entrance of these aliens into what was regarded as a land for whites only. So hostile was the opposition that in 1882 the United States Congress eventually passed the Chinese Exclusion Act, which prohibited immigration from China for the next ten years. This law was then extended by the Geary Act in 1892. The Chinese Exclusion Act was the only U.S. law ever to prevent immigration and naturalization on the basis of race.[1] These laws not only prevented new immigration but also brought additional suffering as they prevented the reunion of the families of thousands of Chinese men already living in the United States (that is, men who had left China without their wives and children); anti-miscegenation laws in many states prohibited Chinese men from marrying white women."

History of Chinese Americans - Wikipedia

The one thing people like you should not do is to try to pee down our necks and tell us it's raining. You would like to see a wall go up, people deported, and then not allowed to return... You want to hide behind this thinly veiled technicality that they might be "illegals" though your kind would take a giant dump on the Constitution as well as the presumption of innocence rather than to sort it all out.

You hide behind what you really want because you lack the courage, intestinal fortitude and the ethical inclinations to be up front as to why you don't want foreigners here. And the truth is a better argument than this chicken squeeze of pretending to have your panties in a bunch over people trying to exercise a basic Liberty in an effort to feed their family in spite of some idiotic and ridiculous - AND UNENFORCEABLE laws that, IF you did get your way would cost all of us OUR RIGHTS. You can make all the arguments you want, but you cannot criminalize Liberty. Either mankind has unalienable Rights or they do not.

If the foreigner has no Liberty, neither do you. If the foreigner has no Rights to Life and Liberty, then you have NO Right to the Freedom of the Press, NO Freedom of Speech, NO Freedom of Religion, NO Right to Due Process, etc., etc. Man either gets his Rights from God or government. You sure as Hell don't get them from both.

If you want to make the argument that America was founded as a white country for the benefit of whites, you might have a more convincing argument. But, what you're expecting is for me to jump on your bandwagon and take a giant shit on my unalienable Rights in the process. It's not going to happen.

The simplest reply to your stupidity is what rights/liberties have you lost due to immigration law?

The right to make enough money to pay rent and feed my family on a days labor without having to compete with those that have less than I from countries not of my own.

 

[jon_berzerk]

How should illegal immigration be controlled? It seems that the mindset of the sanctuary city/state crowd is that once a person arrives illegally (or over stays a visa), that person should be welcomed to stay, establish permanent residence, become legally employed, receive government services, acquire a driver’s license, enroll children into public schools, and eventually seek citizenship and have the right to vote. In other words, the illegal immigrant is to be granted all the rights, benefits and protections as legal immigrants. How can we control immigration if we don’t treat illegal immigration as a crime and allow illegal immigrants to simply blend into our society? Also, if you believe we should have open boarders making all immigrants legal, just say so!

true but only as long as they vote democrat

 

[Unkotare]

LOL, less than 50% of field workers are illegals, how do you then suppose over 85% of our crops will rot? SMFH
Many crops can be harvested with machines, its the up front expense to the farmer as to why he doesn't purchase them and not hire manual labor.

You have to include packing houses, slaughter houses (feed market), and restaurants. Without all these illegal workers, our economy will take a nose dive. The farmers will only be able to salvage about 15% of their crop.

Look what happened in Alabama.

Just for chits and giggles, what would you say if we tried this:

In Alabama, instead of keeping people in prison rotting away you create tax incentives for farmers to hire ex-cons on probation. Then, instead of just sticking people with a criminal record back on the street, they work a regular job for a season, getting some money together and preparing themselves to go back into society, getting a regular job and getting their lives together.

If those farm jobs were being taken by work - release prisoners who can't get any other job, doesn't that reduce the perceived need for so many foreign laborers?

Most states are already doing that. It's called slave labor. The courts keep the prisons filled so crony capitalism can continue pretending the taxpayer will never figurer [sic] out who is getting rich off their money.

This kind of 'post' belongs on the conspiracy forum.

What is your opinion thread doing in philosophy?

???????????

 

[Unkotare]

...... Not until every American who wants a job has a job with a living wage!

Irrational. You assume some correlation between every person without a job and every position in need of a qualified applicant. And "living wage" is a meaningless term.

 

[Slyhunter]

...... Not until every American who wants a job has a job with a living wage!

Irrational. You assume some correlation between every person without a job and every position in need of a qualified applicant. And "living wage" is a meaningless term.

It's only meaningless if you make it meaningless.
Every person who works for a living should be able to afford food, rent, electric, water, vehicle, phone. You want more than that you make more than that.



This is not living

 

[Unkotare]

Immature fantasies divorced from reality are no basis for policy decisions.

 

[Wyatt earp]

...... Not until every American who wants a job has a job with a living wage!

Irrational. You assume some correlation between every person without a job and every position in need of a qualified applicant. And "living wage" is a meaningless term.

It's only meaningless if you make it meaningless.
Every person who works for a living should be able to afford food, rent, electric, water, vehicle, phone. You want more than that you make more than that.



This is not living

So why do people in blue states vote against their own interests?

 

[Vandalshandle]

How should illegal immigration be controlled? It seems that the mindset of the sanctuary city/state crowd is that once a person arrives illegally (or over stays a visa), that person should be welcomed to stay, establish permanent residence, become legally employed, receive government services, acquire a driver’s license, enroll children into public schools, and eventually seek citizenship and have the right to vote. In other words, the illegal immigrant is to be granted all the rights, benefits and protections as legal immigrants. How can we control immigration if we don’t treat illegal immigration as a crime and allow illegal immigrants to simply blend into our society? Also, if you believe we should have open boarders making all immigrants legal, just say so!

You asked for it so no name calling. I am right of center and have never voted for nor supported a liberal, democrat, or anyone left of center.

In my view there should be no such thing as "illegal immigration." As one of our founding fathers put it:

"An avidity to punish is always dangerous to liberty. It leads men to stretch, to misinterpret, and to misapply even the best of laws. He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." A Dissertation on the First Principles of Government (1795)

Early in America's history, people came from every corner of the earth to take advantage of opportunities willingly offered. At the same time, nobody except whites could become citizens.

Why we think that everybody that washes up on our shores should become a citizen, get a free education, be afforded welfare, be extended the privilege of voting and force their beliefs down our throats has always been a mystery to me - ESPECIALLY when those people fled somewhere to come here.

I've been kicked like a dog on these discussion boards because those advocating the ultimate POLICE STATE cannot see the end game for which they are fighting. Let us pretend that you win.

You build a wall. You kick out all the undocumented foreigners (you really want to call them expletive deleted) but, you call them "illegal aliens" when they've never been arrested much less convicted of a damn thing. So, anyway you kick them out along with their America born children. Lock the door on the wall and throw away the key. Problem solved. Right? Wrong.

The American born children of foreigners are American citizens whether we like it or not - agree with it or not. You send them back south of the border and in a few years they start showing up at the border with their Socialist Surveillance Number ...ooops. "Social Security Number" and a birth certificate. They want to come home. Sorry guys, you can't keep them out. They are American citizens and you cannot challenge their citizenship (ex post facto laws are prohibited in the Constitution.)

So, they start coming here in droves. They no longer speak English; they have no family support system (you deported that family); they will most likely have no money, education or job skills. Now what do you do? I've been asking this for a dozen or more years and have never gotten a direct / honest / realistic answer.

You can give me all that "open border" paranoia all you want, but that is only one question I have to counter you with. I do have well reasoned responses for you, IF we can get past the name calling, shouting, false allegations, the usual banter that ensues.

I have more questions along with a realistic way to eliminate the issue altogether.

but, you call them "illegal aliens" when they've neverbeen arrested much less convicted of a damn thing




What kind of retarded thinking is that?


They cross our borders illegally they are criminals


They over stay their visas they are criminals

Another RW nut who does not understand law. Someone who is a suspect for being an illegal alien is an "undocumented" alien.

Someone who has been convicted of being an illegal alien is guilty of being an "illegal alien", which is a misdemeanor, which is equivalent your being a criminal for having been found guilty of exceeded the speed limit.

Or, are you just disappointed that Trump has not yet removed the concept of "innocent, until proven guilty" from US Constitutional law?

LMFAO Obama kicked out a bunch of illegal wetbacks with out do process and killed a few Americans also with out innocent until proven guilty who are you trying to fool?

Well, now, Bear, I think that you should respond to my post with either a defence of your support of convicting people of crimes, of which they have not been convicted in court (which is EXACTLY what your previous post advocates), or, else you should figure out a way to respond without blaming everything on Obama, who did not, in fact, try to find people guilty without trials (which would, of course, have taken away your civil liberties).

 

[Wyatt earp]

How should illegal immigration be controlled? It seems that the mindset of the sanctuary city/state crowd is that once a person arrives illegally (or over stays a visa), that person should be welcomed to stay, establish permanent residence, become legally employed, receive government services, acquire a driver’s license, enroll children into public schools, and eventually seek citizenship and have the right to vote. In other words, the illegal immigrant is to be granted all the rights, benefits and protections as legal immigrants. How can we control immigration if we don’t treat illegal immigration as a crime and allow illegal immigrants to simply blend into our society? Also, if you believe we should have open boarders making all immigrants legal, just say so!

You asked for it so no name calling. I am right of center and have never voted for nor supported a liberal, democrat, or anyone left of center.

In my view there should be no such thing as "illegal immigration." As one of our founding fathers put it:

"An avidity to punish is always dangerous to liberty. It leads men to stretch, to misinterpret, and to misapply even the best of laws. He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." A Dissertation on the First Principles of Government (1795)

Early in America's history, people came from every corner of the earth to take advantage of opportunities willingly offered. At the same time, nobody except whites could become citizens.

Why we think that everybody that washes up on our shores should become a citizen, get a free education, be afforded welfare, be extended the privilege of voting and force their beliefs down our throats has always been a mystery to me - ESPECIALLY when those people fled somewhere to come here.

I've been kicked like a dog on these discussion boards because those advocating the ultimate POLICE STATE cannot see the end game for which they are fighting. Let us pretend that you win.

You build a wall. You kick out all the undocumented foreigners (you really want to call them expletive deleted) but, you call them "illegal aliens" when they've never been arrested much less convicted of a damn thing. So, anyway you kick them out along with their America born children. Lock the door on the wall and throw away the key. Problem solved. Right? Wrong.

The American born children of foreigners are American citizens whether we like it or not - agree with it or not. You send them back south of the border and in a few years they start showing up at the border with their Socialist Surveillance Number ...ooops. "Social Security Number" and a birth certificate. They want to come home. Sorry guys, you can't keep them out. They are American citizens and you cannot challenge their citizenship (ex post facto laws are prohibited in the Constitution.)

So, they start coming here in droves. They no longer speak English; they have no family support system (you deported that family); they will most likely have no money, education or job skills. Now what do you do? I've been asking this for a dozen or more years and have never gotten a direct / honest / realistic answer.

You can give me all that "open border" paranoia all you want, but that is only one question I have to counter you with. I do have well reasoned responses for you, IF we can get past the name calling, shouting, false allegations, the usual banter that ensues.

I have more questions along with a realistic way to eliminate the issue altogether.

but, you call them "illegal aliens" when they've neverbeen arrested much less convicted of a damn thing




What kind of retarded thinking is that?


They cross our borders illegally they are criminals


They over stay their visas they are criminals

Another RW nut who does not understand law. Someone who is a suspect for being an illegal alien is an "undocumented" alien.

Someone who has been convicted of being an illegal alien is guilty of being an "illegal alien", which is a misdemeanor, which is equivalent your being a criminal for having been found guilty of exceeded the speed limit.

Or, are you just disappointed that Trump has not yet removed the concept of "innocent, until proven guilty" from US Constitutional law?

LMFAO Obama kicked out a bunch of illegal wetbacks with out do process and killed a few Americans also with out innocent until proven guilty who are you trying to fool?

Well, now, Bear, I think that you should respond to my post with either a defence of your support of convicting people of crimes, of which they have not been convicted in court (which is EXACTLY what your previous post advocates), or, else you should figure out a way to respond without blaming everything on Obama, who did not, in fact, try to find people guilty without trials (which would, of course, have taken away your civil liberties).

Wait so Obama and bush jr killed American citizens with out due process (drones and we'll documented) and you don't think they kicked out illegals without a trial (,also well documented)
Come on pal , those are facts.

 

[KissMy]

Article 1, Section 9.
The migration or importation of such persons as any of the states now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a tax or duty may be imposed on such importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each person.

Relying on a section that has been stricken through doesn't bode well for your argument. You do know what the importation of people was right? The slave owner was charged $10 for bringing a slave into the State. SMFH

The Constitution also says "migration"

But if there is no longer a $10 limit on fees, why not charge $50,000? It would solve all the immigration problems!

Step 1 - Begin to realize that not everybody that washes up on our shores should become a citizen of the United States

Step 2 - Learn the difference between the Rights of man versus the privileges of citizenship

Step 3 - Limit ALL privileges of citizenship to citizens

Once you get that down you are ready for the next three.

Learn that crap you spew is Unconstitutional & retarded. However I am for improving the constitution.

You are a Retard to want Limit ALL privileges of citizenship to citizens. We must bring in scientist, doctors, engineers, programmers, politically persecuted asylum seekers & spouses of US citizens, etc. up to 0.3% of our population per year. They should pay a $10K immigration fee.

I am for banning border jumpers, illegal immigrants & visa overstays. The ones who have been here less than 3 years should be deported ASAP. Any criminals or welfare dependents should also be deported ASAP. All good working ones here 3 years & over should have option of paying $20K fee + $10K for every year they failed to pay SS & income taxes to immediately become legal documented US citizen, or go before immigration Judge & face deportation.

 

[danielpalos]

At the federal borders because this is a federal problem since 1808, not a State problem, since then.

Using a slave paragraph from the USC that has since been dropped by the very language of the USC doesn't bode well for your argument.

A market friendly visa program that allows participants to "try their luck" in our markets; would be a boon to any State that generates revenue from tourism.

This is already in place, its called the VWP (Visa Waiver Program).

A federal id should be a requirement.

It's called the US Passport.

Revenue from the visa system could help fund unemployment compensation on an at-will basis in our at-will employment States, so native labor can, "retool."

The revenue should go to fund the visa program and all involved in it such as DHS, etc.

If the right wing plan works, why any more effort on a wall and other expenses?

We could be solving this federal problem permanently via capitalism, not socialism on a national basis.

The right wing can't seem to handle it.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

How should illegal immigration be controlled? It seems that the mindset of the sanctuary city/state crowd is that once a person arrives illegally (or over stays a visa), that person should be welcomed to stay, establish permanent residence, become legally employed, receive government services, acquire a driver’s license, enroll children into public schools, and eventually seek citizenship and have the right to vote. In other words, the illegal immigrant is to be granted all the rights, benefits and protections as legal immigrants. How can we control immigration if we don’t treat illegal immigration as a crime and allow illegal immigrants to simply blend into our society? Also, if you believe we should have open boarders making all immigrants legal, just say so!

The rightwing myth of the ‘sanctuary city.’

Local jurisdictions are at liberty to allocate law enforcement resources as they see fit – such as not unilaterally detaining undocumented immigrants.

If requested by Federal authorities to assist with detaining an undocumented immigrant, local jurisdictions will comply.

But local jurisdictions cannot be compelled to enforce Federal law, and local jurisdictions electing to not use their law enforcement resources to detain those undocumented does not render them ‘sanctuary cities.’