Zone1 Question for Christians

[BULLDOG]

... hmmm ... Who allows me this? Who gives me the ability to think, to feel and to trust and to believe at all? Who gives me not only the freedpm to do whatever I like to do but also control over all powers and who taught me to fight myselve so I am able to be happy?




The word "convinced" makes not any big sense in this context. The allmighty and allknowing god sent his son to the world - his wonderful palace was a manger for animals and his glorious throne was a cross for criminals. It is not to be convinced from an allmighty and allknowing god which makes this story plausible - it is our knowledge about human beings which makes this story plausible.



Also "the nothing" exists - a "tabula rasa" for example where nothing is written on is for other letters a nothing. You are very narrow minded. Perhaps you should try ot get a bigger perspecive also on the risk that you will not be able to understanf everything in this bigger perspective. For a straight "E" is a diagonal "A" perhaps a mystery and a round "O" an impossibility.



You also have no reason to live, isn't it? Your life is a gift and anything else than "self-made".



I opened a window and showed you something. Now you try to fight with the clearer view and fresher air, I fear.

What a wonderful impression of someone you think sounds smart.

 

[hadit]

Impressive. You found one event that you think you can explain by examinating context as seen through your eyes. I'm not sure the subject of the temple being destroyed was even metioned in this thread, other than by you. If you want to answer the question of whether the bible is contradictory, perhaps you might stick with the contradictions that are being discussed, instead of injecting a completely different story.

Set em up, knock em down was your intention I suppose. I prefer to set up my own questions and present the contradictions that trouble me, if you don't mind.

On the contrary, you presented that link as evidence that Paul contradicted Jesus. I was merely showing that the first item of "evidence" was far from being evidence at all. Are you trying to tell me that you didn't even bother to go through the link you yourself provided?

Now on to the next one. You source presents this as a contradiction:

Paul says:

1Cor.2
[13] And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who possess the Spirit.
Gal.1
[12] For I did not receive it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through a revelation of Jesus Christ.

Jesus says:
John.17
[14] I have given them thy word;
[17] Sanctify them in the truth; thy word is truth.

How is there a contradiction between the Word of God, which is inspired by the Spirit, imparting truth and Jesus imparting truth?

 

[Hawkins]

It's a matter of perspectives. Humans speak different things from the different perspectives. From the perspective of God's sovereignty, only a few will be saved at the end as known to God. However, from the perspective of Law, then God's salvation applies to "whoever".

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

So the big picture is, God knows who shall be saved at the end. However, He's not a just God if He only applies His foreknowledge but without a standard. That is, "He knows before hand" is not a good reason to decide who shall be saved. God thus defined Law as a standard such that whoever abide by His Law which is followed by a so-called Final Judgment, to a said standard shall enter Heaven. The process is witnessed by the chosen angels and saints. It is a fair and well-witnessed process which stands even when you made the assumption that God doesn't have the foreknowledge. Through this fair and well-witnessed process, those pass the Final Judgment shall be saved. Somehow on the other hand, God wrote down the IDs of those saved in the Book of Life such that you may later cross check how good He and His foreknowdge is.

So from the perspective of Law whoever pass the Final Judgment shall be saved. From the perspective of God's foreknowledge, only few will be saved at the end through the narrow gate.

 

[Meriweather]

You freely admit the bible can't be taken literally.

I freely assert that there are parts of the Bible that were never intended to be taken literally. That's a fairly modern adaptation along with the idea that the Bible was/is meant to get people into heaven. No, sir. The Bible is/was intended as a guide through this present life. The majority of Americans do not believe every word in the Bible is to be taken literally. Your literal interpretation is in the minority. And, if that draws one closer to God, not a problem or an issue at all. If it separates one from God, may want to take a different tact.

 

[Dadoalex]

I heard fear gives soles wings. Perhaps I should try this fear thing. But let me ask Hermes first. He's a specialist for all problems in context "how to fly with wings on the feet".

There ya go.
Unable to defend your position you try in vain to belittle that which you cannot understand.
Monotheism at work.

 

[Meriweather]

So who determinse which parts are literal, and which parts can be ignored? How can Christianity, which is supposed to be based on the teachings of Jesus, who supposedly didn't even have a word for hell, have avoidence of hell as it's main goal?

First we start with the premise we are handed a mystery we can only partially understand. The Foundation is God is love and redemption is open to all. We do the research, we listen, we understand all the different theories, and then follow the one that draws us closer to God. We understand the person who manages to get closest to God is a millimeter closer than anyone else.

Jesus' had a very positive proclamation: The Kingdom of God is at hand, meaning within the reach of everyone, today, right now. What prevents a person from entering? Anger with one's brother, that could bring the fires of Gehenna into you. Anger is a powerful emotion that needs to be addressed and resolved quickly. Remember to make things right with your brother before attending to gifts before God.

Jesus message is not about avoiding hell, it is about claiming what is ours, what is God's plan for all.

 

[Meriweather]

Regardless of Paul's intentions, he claimed some people never have the option of avoidng hell,

Once again, Paul wasn't aware of any hell. What he was aware of is that evil or wicked behavior is like trying to bring reverse sides of a magnet together. They repulse each other--no emotion and no bad feelings involved, it is the simple reality. Paul terms this the wrath of God, but as scripture teaches, our emotions are not God's emotions; our ways are not God's ways. We must keep that in mind.

 

[Meriweather]

Regardless of Paul's intentions, he claimed some people never have the option of avoidng hell

Addressing "never have the option". Of course everyone has the option and Paul says this himself, and of course Jesus said it. Turn away from disobedience and towards the will of God. Remember, this is where Paul was doing his own cherry-picking (proof-texting);.

 

[Meriweather]

Again, If you can find comfort of such a hodgepodge of religious beliefs, then I'm a little jealous.

Comfort? Don't fool yourself. Making sense of the thoughts of others--perhaps Paul especially--is no easy task. Someone in your Baptist history thought they could make it easy by claiming, "Just take everything literally!" What an absolutely lazy way to read/study the Bible! You chose the easy way out. You have the hodgepodge of religious beliefs because I always return to what I know from experience and the foundation of the Bible: God is love. Redemption is for all. And why running from that comforts you is beyond my understanding. You are determined to believe God is a tyrant and redemption is for hardly anyone.

 

[Meriweather]

I know how freeing it is to believe a benevolent loving entity is in charge, and all is as it should be. I just cant find that meening in such contradicory messages as found in the bible.

Stop thinking of God as benevolent. God has presented us with a world/life to take charge of ourselves. It is not easy, we are here to learn--and to also have fun. We were not given an easy-peasy assignment unworthy of our attention and effort. Humanity asked for the challenge, and God provided it. He is watching over us, but He is not protecting us from what we requested. Wrapping us up in cotton batting and sticking us on a shelf is not anything we should want anyway. Live this life, meet its challenges and expectations. And may hope be with your always.

 

[zaangalewa]

There ya go.
Unable to defend your position you try in vain to belittle that which you cannot understand.
Monotheism at work.

I fear you will need a long time to study Buddhism until you will be able to understand what Meister Eckhart said when he spoke about poorness. If I would be a Buddhistic master I guess I could have problems where to start to teach you.

 

[zaangalewa]

What a wonderful impression of someone you think sounds smart.

?

"Smart" ... one moment ... "The injection only smarted for a moment." .. got it: 'smart' has something to do with the German word "Schmerz" (=pain). To be wise is more smart and less painful, isn't it?

 

[BULLDOG]

First we start with the premise we are handed a mystery we can only partially understand. The Foundation is God is love and redemption is open to all. We do the research, we listen, we understand all the different theories, and then follow the one that draws us closer to God. We understand the person who manages to get closest to God is a millimeter closer than anyone else.

Jesus' had a very positive proclamation: The Kingdom of God is at hand, meaning within the reach of everyone, today, right now. What prevents a person from entering? Anger with one's brother, that could bring the fires of Gehenna into you. Anger is a powerful emotion that needs to be addressed and resolved quickly. Remember to make things right with your brother before attending to gifts before God.

Jesus message is not about avoiding hell, it is about claiming what is ours, what is God's plan for all.

I don't have a problem with Jesus, or at least the charactor called Jesus. Modern Christianity has little to do with that part. It's the demand of unerring fealty to a god who is described as loving and forgiving, but whose exploits can only be seen as the acts of a hateful, uncaring petty mind. I have tried to reconsile the vastly different examples of what that god is supposed to be like, and what his actions have shown.

 

[hadit]

On the contrary, you presented that link as evidence that Paul contradicted Jesus. I was merely showing that the first item of "evidence" was far from being evidence at all. Are you trying to tell me that you didn't even bother to go through the link you yourself provided?

Now on to the next one. You source presents this as a contradiction:

Paul says:

1Cor.2
[13] And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who possess the Spirit.
Gal.1
[12] For I did not receive it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through a revelation of Jesus Christ.

Jesus says:
John.17
[14] I have given them thy word;
[17] Sanctify them in the truth; thy word is truth.

How is there a contradiction between the Word of God, which is inspired by the Spirit, imparting truth and Jesus imparting truth?

The next "contradiction" from your source:

Paul says:
Rom.14
[9] For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.

Jesus says:
Luke.20
[38] Now he is not God of the dead, but of the living;

Now, this one is particularly easy, just by quoting the rest of Luke 20:38:

38 He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive.”

Since to God, everyone is alive, there can be no God of the dead, because there are no dead. Different perspectives, not a contradiction. Also, Paul was illustrating the Christ shared not only physical life with humans, but physical death as well. Clearly, to both Paul and Yeshua, death is just a transition, not a termination.

 

[hadit]

I don't have a problem with Jesus, or at least the charactor called Jesus. Modern Christianity has little to do with that part. It's the demand of unerring fealty to a god who is described as loving and forgiving, but whose exploits can only be seen as the acts of a hateful, uncaring petty mind. I have tried to reconsile the vastly different examples of what that god is supposed to be like, and what his actions have shown.

Then you need to understand the vast amount of time God extended His grace and mercy before He brought judgement. You're thinking in time scales of a single human life. He granted centuries.

 

[BULLDOG]

?

"Smart" ... one moment ... "The injection only smarted for a moment." .. got it: 'smart' has something to do with the German word "Schmerz" (=pain). To be wise is more smart and less painful, isn't it?

You've forced mr to modify my remark.

"What a desperate attempt by you to sound like what you think a smart person might sound like. "

 

[BULLDOG]

Then you need to understand the vast amount of time God extended His grace and mercy before He brought judgement. You're thinking in time scales of a single human life. He granted centuries.

I'm not sure how individuals can be responsible for their ancestors sins. Are children held responsible for their father's sins? How old do you think people lived to be back then?

 

[hadit]

I'm not sure how individuals can be responsible for their ancestors sins. Are children held responsible for their father's sins? How old do you think people lived to be back then?

God gives warnings before judgement and those who ignore those warnings have only themselves to blame. I've seen a lot of warnings about God's judgement and I'm sure you have too. Ignore them if you want, but don't complain when God passes judgement.

 

[BULLDOG]

God gives warnings before judgement and those who ignore those warnings have only themselves to blame. I've seen a lot of warnings about God's judgement and I'm sure you have too. Ignore them if you want, but don't complain when God passes judgement.

I'll keep that in mind. Seems that lately, most warnings are coming from TV preachers and nutbag politicians

 

[hadit]

I'll keep that in mind. Seems that lately, most warnings are coming from TV preachers and nutbag politicians

Politicians don't matter, they come and go, spouting off like they're significant. Warnings from God's Word, however, are never safe to ignore. God's judgement is a terrifying thing.