Zone1 Question For Catholics

[Cellblock2429]

Is this true? If somebody confesses a murder the priest isn't allowed to go to the police about it? No offense to OhPleaseJustQuit since I know that she's a practicing Catholic and all of the other Catholics on here but this comment is aimed towards the religion itself and I don't mean to offend anybody by it. People wonder why I'm not a part of this whacked out religion. I mean to each their own as you do you, but still!! Just not for me is all.

/—-/ I’m Catholic and the priest is correct. He explained it clearly.

 

[Blackrook]

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In the case of the penitent that confessed the grave sin and stated that they have no intention to stop committing the sin, the priest can toss them out of the confessional before the Act of Contrition, and refuse to give absolution, thus negating the whole point of the sinner even bothering with confession.

But I'm fine with the Seal of the Confessional staying in place. It was there when I converted, and nobody forced my conversion. I have committed an act tantamount to abetting murder, when I worked for an abortionist, and the only person who needs to know this is my Lord.


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My advice (I know people don't like getting advice) is go to confession because for me, going to confession and receiving the words of absolution was an enormous relief.

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

My advice (I know people don't like getting advice) is go to confession because for me, going to confession and receiving the words of absolution was an enormous relief.

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I try to go to confession every other week. Our diocese is drastically short of priests lately.

But yes, there is no other feeling like the feeling of receiving absolution and receiving my penance.


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[Blackrook]

The decline in vocations is a symptom of the watering down of the Catholic faith since Vatican II.

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

The decline in vocations is a symptom of the watering down of the Catholic faith since Vatican II.

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Have you ever seen this woman speak? Very first hand accounts of why the seminaries are turning out such losers.




I am so fortunate to have a wonderful church with a good holy priest in my small town. It hurts to see how much he can't say for fear of being cancelled.


.

 

[zaangalewa]

Is this true?

Sure. But what?

If somebody confesses a murder the priest isn't allowed to go to the police about it?

Exactly. But the priest will give your hypothetically murderer an advice what's the best to do in the concrete situation. For example: To go to the police because you have to stand by your actions. But in some cases to do something else could perhaps be more wise. The damage caused to living people must be minimised. Important is that the perpetrator can once again take a path towards God out of his own motivation. God is life.

 

[zaangalewa]

The decline in vocations is a symptom of the watering down of the Catholic faith since Vatican II.

You are a Lefebvreist and no Catholic by saying so. Wanting to turn back the clock to before 1962 would firstly take you back to a world in which you would not be at home, and with this absurd opinion you are not at home here today either. You must somehow realise that bishop Lefebvre was not exactly one of the great minds.

Consult not your fears but your hopes and your dreams. Think not about your frustrations, but about your unfulfilled potential. Concern yourself not with what you tried and failed in, but with what it is still possible for you to do.
Pope John XXIII



"O Toi l'au-delà de tout" de saint Grégoire de Nazianze

O Toi l'au-delà de tout,
comment t'appeler d'un autre nom ?
Quelle hymne peut te chanter ?
aucun mot ne t'exprime.
Quel esprit te saisir ?
nulle intelligence ne te conçoit.
Seul, tu es ineffable ;
tout ce qui se dit est sorti de toi.
Seul, tu es inconnaissable ;
tout ce qui se pense est sorti de toi.
Tous les êtres te célèbrent,
ceux qui parlent et ceux qui sont muets.
Tous les êtres te rendent hommage,
ceux qui pensent comme ceux qui ne pensent pas.
L'universel désir, le gémissement de tous
aspire vers toi
Tout ce qui existe te prie
et vers toi tout être qui sait lire ton univers
fait monter un hymne de silence.
Tout ce qui demeure, demeure en toi seul.
Le mouvement de l'univers déferle en toi.
De tous les êtres tu es la fin,
tu es unique.
Tu es chacun et tu n'es aucun.
Tu n'es pas un être seul, tu n'es pas l'ensemble :
Tu as tous les noms,
comment t'appellerai-je ?
Toi le seul qu'on ne peut nommer ;
quel esprit céleste pourra pénétrer les nuées
qui voilent le ciel lui-même ?
Aie pitié, ô Toi, l'au-delà de tout ;
comment t'appeler d'un autre nom ?
-----
‘O Thou beyond all’ by Saint Gregory of Nazianzus

O You beyond all,
how can we call you by any other name?
What hymn can sing of you?
no words can express you.
What spirit can grasp you?
no intelligence can conceive you.
You alone are ineffable;
all that is said has come from you.
You alone are unknowable;
everything that is thought has come out of you.
All beings celebrate you,
those who speak and those who are silent.
All beings pay you homage,
those who think and those who do not.
The universal desire, the groan of all
yearns for you
All that exists prays to you
and to you every being who can read your universe
raises a hymn of silence.
All that remains, remains in you alone.
The movement of the universe surges through you.
Of all beings you are the end,
you are unique.
You are each and you are none.
You are not a single being, you are not the whole:
You have every name,
what shall I call you?
You are the only one who cannot be named;
what heavenly spirit can penetrate the clouds
that veil heaven itself?
Have mercy, O Thou beyond all;
how can I call you by any other name?

 

[Blackrook]

I'm a Lefebvreist because I've noticed the problems with the Catholic Church started with Vatican II?

No, I'm not.

 

[zaangalewa]

I'm a Lefebvreist because I've noticed the problems with the Catholic Church started with Vatican II?

No, I'm not.

You are. Catholics have no problem with the rules of Vaticanum II. Vaticanum II is our all common history. You exclude yourselve - while you the same time try to speak for the church. Don't try to be the Lord of the church. This job has already been taken.

 

[zaangalewa]

Blackrook

By the way - what most people seem not to know: What someone not understands one is not able to do and so one has not to do this. But this not means not to like to understand. Always again - and always new. Church is now - in this second.

 

[Cellblock2429]

Blackrook

By the way - what most people seem not to know: What someone not understands one is not able to do and so one has not to do this. But this not means not to like to understand. Always again - and always new. Church is now - in this second.

/—-/ That makes no sense. It’s a word salad.

 

[Z99]

That is the big problem with the catholic church trying to deal in absolutes such as the seal of the confessional.

There is NOTHING Biblical about this doctrine. It's man-made and NOT from God.

 

[Z99]

My advice (I know people don't like getting advice) is go to confession because for me, going to confession and receiving the words of absolution was an enormous relief.

Why not just talk to God? God wants a relationship with you. God created you, not the Catholic Church. God gives you forever life, not the Catholic Church. So why do you go to the Catholic Church when God wants you to go to him? He's your father, not the Catholic Church.

By the way, I was a Catholic for 50 years and then the Holy Spirit opened my eyes.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Is this true? If somebody confesses a murder the priest isn't allowed to go to the police about it? No offense to OhPleaseJustQuit since I know that she's a practicing Catholic and all of the other Catholics on here but this comment is aimed towards the religion itself and I don't mean to offend anybody by it. People wonder why I'm not a part of this whacked out religion. I mean to each their own as you do you, but still!! Just not for me is all.

It falls under legal 'privilege. The one you're interested in is number 6 in the list.

In legal and professional contexts, privilege refers to protections that keep certain communications and information confidential and exempt from disclosure in legal proceedings. Here’s a breakdown of the main categories of privilege:

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Attorney-Client Privilege​

What It Protects:

• Confidential communications between a client and their attorney made for the purpose of seeking or providing legal advice.
• Applies to both spoken and written communications.

Exceptions:

• Crime-Fraud Exception: If a client is using the attorney’s advice to commit or cover up a crime, the privilege does not apply.
• Third-Party Presence: If a third party is present (unless necessary for legal counsel), privilege may be lost.

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Work Product Doctrine​

What It Protects:

• Documents and materials prepared by an attorney (or someone working for them) in anticipation of litigation.
• Protects notes, memos, research, and strategy discussions from being disclosed to the opposing party.

Exceptions:

• If the opposing party can show they have a "substantial need" for the information and cannot obtain it elsewhere, a court may order partial disclosure.

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Spousal Privilege​

What It Protects:
There are two types of spousal privilege:
Testimonial Privilege (Marriage Must Be Ongoing)

• A spouse cannot be forced to testify against their current spouse in criminal cases.
• The witness-spouse can choose whether to testify, but the defendant-spouse cannot prevent them from doing so.

Marital Communications Privilege (Survives Divorce)

• Confidential communications between spouses during their marriage are protected even after divorce.
• Exceptions: If the communication was about a crime against the spouse or their child, privilege does not apply.

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Doctor-Patient Privilege​

What It Protects:

• Medical records and communications between a patient and their doctor.
• Prevents doctors from testifying about private medical discussions.

Exceptions:

• If the patient waives the privilege (e.g., filing a lawsuit for medical malpractice).
• If there is a public health risk (e.g., reporting infectious diseases).
• If medical records are relevant to a criminal investigation (e.g., a DUI suspect’s blood alcohol level).

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Psychotherapist-Patient Privilege​

What It Protects:

• Confidential therapy sessions with psychiatrists, psychologists, and licensed therapists.
• Recognized in most legal systems to protect mental health treatment.

Exceptions:

• If the patient poses a threat to themselves or others (e.g., threats of violence).
• If mental health is directly at issue in a lawsuit (e.g., an insanity defense in criminal cases).

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Clergy-Penitent Privilege​

What It Protects:

• Confessions and spiritual guidance given to clergy (priests, pastors, rabbis, imams, etc.).
• Prevents clergy from being forced to testify about religious confessions.

Exceptions:

• Some states require clergy to report child abuse or certain violent crimes.

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Executive Privilege​

What It Protects:

• Communications between the President and advisors in the interest of protecting national security and decision-making processes.
• Used to prevent disclosure of sensitive government information.

Exceptions:

• Cannot be used to shield illegal activity (e.g., Nixon’s Watergate tapes).
• Courts can override executive privilege if there is an overwhelming need for the information in a legal case.

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Legislative Privilege (Speech & Debate Clause)​

What It Protects:

• Members of Congress (and state legislatures) are immune from prosecution or lawsuits for statements made during official legislative duties.
• Designed to protect lawmakers from retaliation for their political actions.

Exceptions:

• Does not protect statements made outside official legislative duties (e.g., campaign speeches, private meetings).
• Does not cover criminal acts (e.g., bribery, corruption).

---

Accountant-Client Privilege (Limited)​

What It Protects:

• Some states and federal laws provide limited privilege for communications with accountants regarding tax advice.

Exceptions:

• Not as strong as attorney-client privilege.
• The IRS and courts can compel disclosure in tax fraud cases.

---

Journalist’s Privilege (Reporter's Shield Laws)​

What It Protects:

• Journalists may refuse to disclose confidential sources in some states (depending on shield laws).

Exceptions:

• No federal shield law exists in the U.S.—judges may compel journalists to reveal sources in criminal cases.
• Courts can override the privilege in cases involving national security or public safety.

---

Summary Chart:​

Privilege Type	Protects	Common Exceptions
Attorney-Client	Legal advice & representation	Crime-fraud exception, third-party presence
Work Product	Attorney’s case preparation materials	If opposing party has no alternative source
Spousal	Communications & testimony between spouses	Crimes against spouse/child, voluntary testimony
Doctor-Patient	Medical records & discussions	Public health concerns, malpractice lawsuits
Psychotherapist-Patient	Therapy records & discussions	Danger to self/others, court orders
Clergy-Penitent	Religious confessions	Mandatory reporting in some abuse cases
Executive	Presidential communications	Cannot shield illegal activity, court orders
Legislative	Statements in official duties	Bribery, corruption, non-legislative actions
Accountant-Client	Financial & tax advice (limited)	Tax fraud, IRS subpoenas
Journalist’s	Confidential sources	National security, public safety concerns

---

Key Takeaways:​

Not all privileges are absolute—most have exceptions where courts can override them.
Attorney-client & work product privileges are the strongest but still have limits.
Spousal, doctor-patient, and therapist-patient privileges are common in personal cases.
Executive & legislative privileges protect government officials, but not from criminal actions.

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

I'm a Lefebvreist because I've noticed the problems with the Catholic Church started with Vatican II?

No, I'm not.

.

I am far from a Lefebvreist and I've really noticed the problems and accept that VII was the start of the problems.


.

 

[zaangalewa]

/—-/ That makes no sense. It’s a word salad.

Example: When the pope made a council in Rome and decided that the Pope is infallible all German bishops left this council because they did not like to vote against the pope. Was this council infallible? They said "no". To make such a rule was a disaster in logic.

Later a secular law was made in Germany what did forbid to fire a Catholic clerics because he not believes in the infallibility of the Pope. Reason: To believe this or not to believe this is only a question of conscience.

Indeed the rule "infallibility" - which nearly no one understanss who thinks about - was used only in one case as far as I know. And also what the pope said in this context is very strange and I don't know why this should be important.

I don't know anyone who thinks the infallibility of the pope is an essential catholic belief. Or with other words: the unity of the church is more important than this rule.

Because not every pope is a teacher of the church indeed only a weaker form makes sense when infallibility is seen as undeceivability. In this case the Pope not on his own says something but decides in a conflict. Referee decision!

And now my word salad again:

By the way - what most people seem not to know: What someone not understands one is not able to do and so one has not to do this. But this not means not to like to understand. Always again - and always new. Church is now - in this second.

Do you now understand what I like to say?

 

[Meriweather]

Why not just talk to God? God wants a relationship with you. God created you, not the Catholic Church. God gives you forever life, not the Catholic Church. So why do you go to the Catholic Church when God wants you to go to him? He's your father, not the Catholic Church.

By the way, I was a Catholic for 50 years and then the Holy Spirit opened my eyes.

Why preclude either one? Can you tell us about your experience with the Holy Spirit and how your eyes were opened?

 

[Meriweather]

It falls under legal 'privilege. The one you're interested in is number 6 in the list.

Excellent. I'll add another thought upon which to reflect. Non-Catholic Christians say they have no need of a confessional and confess their sins straight to God. Suppose they confess a murder to God. Are there any complaints about God not notifying the authorities?

In his life time, Jesus told people who came to him, "Your sins are forgiven." Today, a priest represents Jesus, and Jesus is not known for reporting these sins to the authorities of his time.

 

[zaangalewa]

There is NOTHING Biblical about this doctrine. It's man-made and NOT from God.

By the way: The bible is made from Jews and Catholics under god's inspiration. And this inspiration began long ago in a time we do not know any longer and this inspiration also never stopped.

What do you think about Cat Stevens? One day he opened his eyes and saw he is a Muslim. Is he your friend or your enemy now? Here an old Christian Celtic song sung by him:

 

[Cellblock2429]

Example: When the pope made a council in Rome and decided that the Pope is infallible all German bishops left this council because they did not like to vote against the pope. Was this council infallible? They said "no". To make such a rule was a disaster in logic.

Later a secular law was made in Germany what did forbid to fire a Catholic clerics because he not believes in the infallibility of the Pope. Reason: To believe this or not to believe this is only a question of conscience.

Indeed the rule "infallibility" - which nearly no one understanss who thinks about - was used only in one case as far as I know. And also what the pope said in this context is very strange and I don't know why this should be important.

I don't know anyone who thinks the infallibility of the pope is an essential catholic belief. Or with other words: the unity of the church is more important than this rule.

Because not every pope is a reacher of the church indeed only a weaker from makes sense when infallibility is seen as undeceivability. In this case the Pope not on his own says something but decides in a conflict. Referee decision!

And now my word salad again:


Do you now understand what I like to say?

/---/ Catholic here.

www.catholic.com › tract › papal-infallibility Papal Infallibility | Catholic Answers Tract​

"Infallibility belongs in a special way to the pope as head of the bishops (Matt. 16:17–19; John 21:15–17). As Vatican II remarked, it is a charism the pope “enjoys in virtue of his office, when, as the supreme shepherd and teacher of all the faithful, who confirms his brethren in their faith (Luke 22:32), he proclaims by a definitive act some doctrine of faith or morals. Therefore his definitions, of themselves, and not from the consent of the Church, are justly held irreformable, for they are pronounced with the assistance of the Holy Spirit, an assistance promised to him in blessed Peter.”

The infallibility of the pope is not a doctrine that suddenly appeared in Church teaching; rather, it is a doctrine that was implicit in the early Church. It is only our understanding of infallibility that has developed and been more clearly understood over time. In fact, the doctrine of infallibility is implicit in these Petrine texts: John 21:15–17 (“Feed my sheep . . . ”), Luke 22:32 (“I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail”), and Matthew 16:18 (“You are Peter . . . ”).