POLL: Ugly Politics

[sartre play]

OP-er, do you mean attack in the sense of attacking the person airing an idea or position? Or do you mean attacking the idea/proposition, not the person who makes it?

If you mean the former, I'm not terribly given to that other than with regard to individuals who don't exhibit the expected degree of mental acuity when expressing their ideas. With regard to the latter, I "attack" the idea because as the individuals presents it, it's lame, and I'll criticize (constructive or deprecating) the proposition regardless of whether I agree with it because there's no rational basis for leaving to stand unassailed a poorly developed idea, no matter one's personal affinity toward it. I do that because I take public policy design, enactment and implementation, along with governance and leadership quite seriously.

Perhaps that's a personal thing. In my life, since I was a child, I've never found success from doing things half-assed, so I don't have much, if any, tolerance for slovenliness when others -- family, friends, colleagues, or random people -- display it when interacting with me. I don't disrespect others and their ideas by not giving them the best consideration I can, and I don't care to bother with folks who don't do the same.

I mean, at some point, one has to commit to always striving in all they do to be outstandingly, to manifest excellence to the best of one's ability. That's what living is, isn't it? Life isn't about squeaking by; it's about flourishing by taking the bull by the horns. I don't one's advancement and growth stops when one stops doing so, and once one reaches that point, one is a drag on society not a contributor to it.

I was thinking more of the general madness that has taken over political discussion. Believing any and every rumor that puts the other side in a bad light. Personal attacks, name-calling, distortions, deflection, straw man arguments, outright lies.

Full disclosure: I do admit that it's possible it's no worse than before, but it sure as hell seems that way to me.

Y'know, when I see something that is broken, my impulse is to fix it, not make it worse. So a lot of this just doesn't make sense to me.
.

Cons started it. We libs are learning quickly. Getting hit hard over the head with the 2016 2x4 has taught us that we need to raise the temperature to thermonuclear

Well, my argument is that the Regressives played a role in 2016, cramming PC & Identity Politics down the country's throat until it choked and pushed back. The liberals in the videos I posted earlier agree.
.

My team does not have conhatelie&cryradio that started with Rush. Your side has been thermonuclear for decades.

I will admit that getting my team out to vote is damn hard. Your side is lucky we don't vote or you would never win another election.

As far as Identity Politics goes, of course you all hate it. You only have one identity ~ white males women who obey.

Actually, I'm a left-leaning Independent, I voted for Hillary. I'm just horrified about what has happened to the Democrats.

And I agree. If I were to point to one place at which this madness started, I would point to Rush and his merry band of copycats.

I'm virulently anti-PC and anti-Identity Politics because they are divisive, dishonest and counter-productive.
.

Am also anti-pc, yet with growing reluctance take up much of Democratic policy's. only because it appears that Republicans have gone bat s@#$ crazy.

 

[MarkDuffy]

Let's assume that most people here enjoy how ugly our politics have become. The Righties jumped all over Obama for every real, perceived, supposed or imagined sin, and the Lefties are doing the same with Trump. It's all reflected on USMB all day, every day. Absolutely as nasty and dirty and ugly as possible, 24/7.

So what motivates you to do this? Choose whatever answers are appropriate.
.

Been a democrat all my, never been a liberal, they have destroyed my party, I will not forgive them and will expose them every chance I get...they have reared several generations of Americans who just cannot think or see...btw, gun violence only became a problem since the 60's and the rise/infection of liberalism and it is plaguing liberal areas at a far greater rate than conservative which is the Libs and cons are taking the sides they take in this.

I usually divide that end into actual liberals - the people you and I probably like - and the Regressives, aka the illiberal leftist authoritarians who have taken over the party.

Once again --- "Liberal" and "Authoritarian" are polar opposites. You can't use one as an adjective to the other's noun. It would be like saying "cold heat".

And neither of them refer to a "party". Parties and philosophies are two different things with two different functions.

I'm a liberal. Sure liberals can be authoritarian. I have crazy members of my posse just like the cons do. OK, not as many cuz cons are totally insane.

I'll even give you an example of my crazies ~ Climate Change Alarmists.

Climate Change Alarmists???

These are called scientists and we are talking about the top scientists in the world. Can you please explain to me how a large body of people who have spent their whole life studying the field are wrong and the the research of an equable standard to prove so...

Conspiracy Theories don't count... Apart from anything else how does that many people of integrity all agree to back the same lie?

Yes, Climate Change is real and we have already won! trump will be gone and we will be back in Paris.

Waaay before doomsday, we will run out of reachable fossil fuels and Mom Nature will use the current ocean's overpowered CO2 buffering ability to return the planet to normal. In the mean time, move away from coastal areas, don't expect my tax dollars to shore up your cliff mansions and and enjoy the new north pole lake.

I am more worried about the coming oil wars.

 

[Mac1958]

I was thinking more of the general madness that has taken over political discussion. Believing any and every rumor that puts the other side in a bad light. Personal attacks, name-calling, distortions, deflection, straw man arguments, outright lies.

Full disclosure: I do admit that it's possible it's no worse than before, but it sure as hell seems that way to me.

Y'know, when I see something that is broken, my impulse is to fix it, not make it worse. So a lot of this just doesn't make sense to me.
.

Cons started it. We libs are learning quickly. Getting hit hard over the head with the 2016 2x4 has taught us that we need to raise the temperature to thermonuclear

Well, my argument is that the Regressives played a role in 2016, cramming PC & Identity Politics down the country's throat until it choked and pushed back. The liberals in the videos I posted earlier agree.
.

My team does not have conhatelie&cryradio that started with Rush. Your side has been thermonuclear for decades.

I will admit that getting my team out to vote is damn hard. Your side is lucky we don't vote or you would never win another election.

As far as Identity Politics goes, of course you all hate it. You only have one identity ~ white males women who obey.

Actually, I'm a left-leaning Independent, I voted for Hillary. I'm just horrified about what has happened to the Democrats.

And I agree. If I were to point to one place at which this madness started, I would point to Rush and his merry band of copycats.

I'm virulently anti-PC and anti-Identity Politics because they are divisive, dishonest and counter-productive.
.

Am also anti-pc, yet with growing reluctance take up much of Democratic policy's. only because it appears that Republicans have gone bat s@#$ crazy.

I've reached a point where I don't want to go near either one. I just don't understand this win-at-all-costs, us vs. them, the nastier the better shit.
.

 

[Cellblock2429]

Let's assume that most people here enjoy how ugly our politics have become. The Righties jumped all over Obama for every real, perceived, supposed or imagined sin, and the Lefties are doing the same with Trump. It's all reflected on USMB all day, every day. Absolutely as nasty and dirty and ugly as possible, 24/7.

So what motivates you to do this? Choose whatever answers are appropriate.
.

/----/ Politics in the US have always been ugly. Read how DemocRATS attacked Abe Lincoln
Lincoln and the Copperheads

 

[imawhosure]

Let's assume that most people here enjoy how ugly our politics have become. The Righties jumped all over Obama for every real, perceived, supposed or imagined sin, and the Lefties are doing the same with Trump. It's all reflected on USMB all day, every day. Absolutely as nasty and dirty and ugly as possible, 24/7.

So what motivates you to do this? Choose whatever answers are appropriate.
.

My motivation is simple Mac---------> I WAS a Democrat! The Democrats have given up on their base, and traded them in for FUTURE (possibly) Americans, and they want ME to finance it!

The Democrats claim (or used to) to be for the working people, and yet they either want working people to pay higher taxes to support their illegal alien infrastructure, or drive up the debt to support said infrastructure, lowering the value of any monies a working person saves.

Just THINK about the tax cuts offered today-------> a middle class family gets to keep MORE of their money; but the Democrats think that is bad. It could raise the deficit, and this is not for, nor against that premise; but...........the money comes to MY pocket, so if that happens, I got the reward, so now I pay the penalty.

In the Democratic scenario, I get NOTHING, and yet I STILL pay the penalty! How they even sell their nonsense is beyond me; but I suppose when you have almost 1/2 the country paying nothing, it becomes easier to convince 2 to 5% of the rest of the people who DO pay something to go along with the program, if you brow beat them enough.

I wonder if today's Democrats realize that that the mantra for forever used to be------------>expand the middle class working people, because they will vote for us! Today, the mantra is---------->expand the poor; even if we have to import them, because they will vote for us as long as we take dollars from those who pay taxes, and give it to THEM!

 

[Mac1958]

Let's assume that most people here enjoy how ugly our politics have become. The Righties jumped all over Obama for every real, perceived, supposed or imagined sin, and the Lefties are doing the same with Trump. It's all reflected on USMB all day, every day. Absolutely as nasty and dirty and ugly as possible, 24/7.

So what motivates you to do this? Choose whatever answers are appropriate.
.

My motivation is simple Mac---------> I WAS a Democrat! The Democrats have given up on their base, and traded them in for FUTURE (possibly) Americans, and they want ME to finance it!

The Democrats claim (or used to) to be for the working people, and yet they either want working people to pay higher taxes to support their illegal alien infrastructure, or drive up the debt to support said infrastructure, lowering the value of any monies a working person saves.

Just THINK about the tax cuts offered today-------> a middle class family gets to keep MORE of their money; but the Democrats think that is bad. It could raise the deficit, and this is not for, nor against that premise; but...........the money comes to MY pocket, so if that happens, I got the reward, so now I pay the penalty.

In the Democratic scenario, I get NOTHING, and yet I STILL pay the penalty! How they even sell their nonsense is beyond me; but I suppose when you have almost 1/2 the country paying nothing, it becomes easier to convince 2 to 5% of the rest of the people who DO pay something to go along with the program, if you brow beat them enough.

I wonder if today's Democrats realize that that the mantra for forever used to be------------>expand the middle class working people, because they will vote for us! Today, the mantra is---------->expand the poor; even if we have to import them, because they will vote for us as long as we take dollars from those who pay taxes, and give it to THEM!

They've been too busy dividing people into little grievance groups and screaming RACIST to spend much time talking about the middle class.

They do seem to understand that they've forgotten about the middle class, and I expect them to address it better going forward, but they have not yet realized how repulsive so many Americans find their SJW bullshit.
.

 

[Votto]

Let's assume that most people here enjoy how ugly our politics have become. The Righties jumped all over Obama for every real, perceived, supposed or imagined sin, and the Lefties are doing the same with Trump. It's all reflected on USMB all day, every day. Absolutely as nasty and dirty and ugly as possible, 24/7.

So what motivates you to do this? Choose whatever answers are appropriate.
.

My motivation is simple Mac---------> I WAS a Democrat! The Democrats have given up on their base, and traded them in for FUTURE (possibly) Americans, and they want ME to finance it!

The Democrats claim (or used to) to be for the working people, and yet they either want working people to pay higher taxes to support their illegal alien infrastructure, or drive up the debt to support said infrastructure, lowering the value of any monies a working person saves.

Just THINK about the tax cuts offered today-------> a middle class family gets to keep MORE of their money; but the Democrats think that is bad. It could raise the deficit, and this is not for, nor against that premise; but...........the money comes to MY pocket, so if that happens, I got the reward, so now I pay the penalty.

In the Democratic scenario, I get NOTHING, and yet I STILL pay the penalty! How they even sell their nonsense is beyond me; but I suppose when you have almost 1/2 the country paying nothing, it becomes easier to convince 2 to 5% of the rest of the people who DO pay something to go along with the program, if you brow beat them enough.

I wonder if today's Democrats realize that that the mantra for forever used to be------------>expand the middle class working people, because they will vote for us! Today, the mantra is---------->expand the poor; even if we have to import them, because they will vote for us as long as we take dollars from those who pay taxes, and give it to THEM!

Marx said the Middle Class needed to be destroyed, It was the key for the lower masses to rise up in enough numbers for their bloody socialist revolution

 

[Pogo]

I voted Mango cuz I like Mango

DAMN RIGHT
.

Meh -- I don't particularly like or dislike mango but it was the only choice that didn't presuppose the fatal presupposition that "everybody wants to attack a collective". That assumption has no basis to exist. To that end I woulda voted Pineapple, Kumquat, or almost anything except Raisin.

I notice Mango has been winning the poll the entire time too.

Actually when in an Indian restaurant I always order a mango lassi, but that's only because they don't offer peach.

 

[Votto]

I voted Mango cuz I like Mango

DAMN RIGHT
.

Meh -- I don't particularly like or dislike mango but it was the only choice that didn't presuppose the fatal presupposition that "everybody wants to attack a collective". That assumption has no basis to exist. To that end I woulda voted Pineapple, Kumquat, or almost anything except Raisin.

I notice Mango has been winning the poll the entire time too.

Actually when in an Indian restaurant I always order a mango lassi, but that's only because they don't offer peach.

Of course mango won.

Now if a poll choice was fecal stain instead of mango, most would have probably voted for that over political crap as well.

 

[tycho1572]

I’m not alone with faulting career democrats for the ugliness we’re currently seeing.

 

[bripat9643]

Let's assume that most people here enjoy how ugly our politics have become. The Righties jumped all over Obama for every real, perceived, supposed or imagined sin, and the Lefties are doing the same with Trump. It's all reflected on USMB all day, every day. Absolutely as nasty and dirty and ugly as possible, 24/7.

So what motivates you to do this? Choose whatever answers are appropriate.
.

Mac, you need to face one fact.

It was the left who indulged in character assassination, ridicule, and marginalization according to procedure as written by Saul Alinsky

“Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.”

“…you do what you can with what you have and clothe it with moral arguments.”

– Saul Alinsky, Rules for Radicals

The bed wetters were not prepared for the fact that their asinine policies and failed philosophies would become the subject of ridicule and end up losing public support. They used to have a monopoly on information, now news stories like this:

Transgender Wyoming woman convicted of sexually assaulting 10-year-old girl in bathroom

Undermine their globalist agenda. Most people are sick of these malcontents and their bullshit. It may even lead to a civil war, but it will be short and sweet. The libturds in their near sighted nihilistic views did not consider the outcome of attempting to brainwash the masses to hate guns. Only their zealots were indoctrinated and remain mostly terrified of guns. The people who resist conformity love freedom and have weapons. It's a battle the moonbats set themselves up to fail.

That conservative perspective doesn't answer my question.

This kind of behavior obviously isn't going to improve anything, so I'm curious about its motivations.

Would I be right in guessing that, for you, constructive communication is pointless because your intent is to ultimately "beat" the other side?
.

Ridiculing and insulting the left sure as hell will improve things. Bashing their heads in would be even better.

 

[Votto]

I’m not alone with faulting career democrats for the ugliness we’re currently seeing.

Racist! Misogynist! Bigot! Deplorable!

How dare you?

 

[Votto]

Let's assume that most people here enjoy how ugly our politics have become. The Righties jumped all over Obama for every real, perceived, supposed or imagined sin, and the Lefties are doing the same with Trump. It's all reflected on USMB all day, every day. Absolutely as nasty and dirty and ugly as possible, 24/7.

So what motivates you to do this? Choose whatever answers are appropriate.
.

Mac, you need to face one fact.

It was the left who indulged in character assassination, ridicule, and marginalization according to procedure as written by Saul Alinsky

“Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.”

“…you do what you can with what you have and clothe it with moral arguments.”

– Saul Alinsky, Rules for Radicals

The bed wetters were not prepared for the fact that their asinine policies and failed philosophies would become the subject of ridicule and end up losing public support. They used to have a monopoly on information, now news stories like this:

Transgender Wyoming woman convicted of sexually assaulting 10-year-old girl in bathroom

Undermine their globalist agenda. Most people are sick of these malcontents and their bullshit. It may even lead to a civil war, but it will be short and sweet. The libturds in their near sighted nihilistic views did not consider the outcome of attempting to brainwash the masses to hate guns. Only their zealots were indoctrinated and remain mostly terrified of guns. The people who resist conformity love freedom and have weapons. It's a battle the moonbats set themselves up to fail.

That conservative perspective doesn't answer my question.

This kind of behavior obviously isn't going to improve anything, so I'm curious about its motivations.

Would I be right in guessing that, for you, constructive communication is pointless because your intent is to ultimately "beat" the other side?
.

Ridiculing and insulting the left sure as hell will improve things. Bashing their heads in would be even better.

Bashing their heads? How would that hurt them?

 

[Pogo]

Let's assume that most people here enjoy how ugly our politics have become. The Righties jumped all over Obama for every real, perceived, supposed or imagined sin, and the Lefties are doing the same with Trump. It's all reflected on USMB all day, every day. Absolutely as nasty and dirty and ugly as possible, 24/7.

So what motivates you to do this? Choose whatever answers are appropriate.
.

/----/ Politics in the US have always been ugly. Read how DemocRATS attacked Abe Lincoln
Lincoln and the Copperheads

I read your link, because I have some interest in that period. It was a nice page of history but it didn't look particularly rancorous. I didn't see the sense of Eliminationism we're talking here; looks like it was opposition to Lincoln (specifically) based on Constitutional concerns, not an idea to eliminate ALL opposition like a bacteria.

My read of what we're discussing here still goes back to those "fallacies of collective" -- the idea of "us and them", where "they" -- be they Democrats, Republicans, the left, the right, communists, socialists, "regressives" or whatever --- must be simply exterminated in bulk. Looks like your Copperheads were specifically anti-Lincoln and his policies, not anti-an entire group.

 

[Pogo]

I voted Mango cuz I like Mango

DAMN RIGHT
.

Meh -- I don't particularly like or dislike mango but it was the only choice that didn't presuppose the fatal presupposition that "everybody wants to attack a collective". That assumption has no basis to exist. To that end I woulda voted Pineapple, Kumquat, or almost anything except Raisin.

I notice Mango has been winning the poll the entire time too.

Actually when in an Indian restaurant I always order a mango lassi, but that's only because they don't offer peach.

Of course mango won.

Now if a poll choice was fecal stain instead of mango, most would have probably voted for that over political crap as well.

I doubt it.

Open a poll and I shall demonstrate by boycotting it.

 

[bripat9643]

Let's assume that most people here enjoy how ugly our politics have become. The Righties jumped all over Obama for every real, perceived, supposed or imagined sin, and the Lefties are doing the same with Trump. It's all reflected on USMB all day, every day. Absolutely as nasty and dirty and ugly as possible, 24/7.

So what motivates you to do this? Choose whatever answers are appropriate.
.

Mac, you need to face one fact.

It was the left who indulged in character assassination, ridicule, and marginalization according to procedure as written by Saul Alinsky

“Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.”

“…you do what you can with what you have and clothe it with moral arguments.”

– Saul Alinsky, Rules for Radicals

The bed wetters were not prepared for the fact that their asinine policies and failed philosophies would become the subject of ridicule and end up losing public support. They used to have a monopoly on information, now news stories like this:

Transgender Wyoming woman convicted of sexually assaulting 10-year-old girl in bathroom

Undermine their globalist agenda. Most people are sick of these malcontents and their bullshit. It may even lead to a civil war, but it will be short and sweet. The libturds in their near sighted nihilistic views did not consider the outcome of attempting to brainwash the masses to hate guns. Only their zealots were indoctrinated and remain mostly terrified of guns. The people who resist conformity love freedom and have weapons. It's a battle the moonbats set themselves up to fail.

That conservative perspective doesn't answer my question.

This kind of behavior obviously isn't going to improve anything, so I'm curious about its motivations.

Would I be right in guessing that, for you, constructive communication is pointless because your intent is to ultimately "beat" the other side?
.

Ridiculing and insulting the left sure as hell will improve things. Bashing their heads in would be even better.

Bashing their heads? How would that hurt them?

Good point!

 

[SeaGal]

Well, that was inevitable. Look at what they've lost, look at how they lost (electoral votes), look at who they lost to.

Full disclosure, I voted against Trump. But the behaviors of the Left and many Democrats have been unlike anything I've ever seen. My personal theory is that they thought that the fight was over, that Obama's wins marked the turning point, the Fundamental Change they've been hoping for, and that demographics were guaranteeing it from here on.

So this loss was a huge shock, on multiple levels, and they're just not having it.

I think you're probably right. I can't ever remember hearing the abundance of demeaning and dismissive rhetoric coming from elected officials directed toward the electorate as we've heard over the past 9 years. Street corners, newspaper, commentators, yes - but our representatives in government?...ominous.

ps - I voted against Hillary, as well as against her husband, twice.

 

[bripat9643]

Well, that was inevitable. Look at what they've lost, look at how they lost (electoral votes), look at who they lost to.

Full disclosure, I voted against Trump. But the behaviors of the Left and many Democrats have been unlike anything I've ever seen. My personal theory is that they thought that the fight was over, that Obama's wins marked the turning point, the Fundamental Change they've been hoping for, and that demographics were guaranteeing it from here on.

So this loss was a huge shock, on multiple levels, and they're just not having it.

I think you're probably right. I can't ever remember hearing the abundance of demeaning and dismissive rhetoric coming from elected officials directed toward the electorate as we've heard over the past 9 years. Street corners, newspaper, commentators, yes - but our representatives in government?...ominous.

ps - I voted against Hillary, as well as against her husband, twice.

Whenever the douche bag snowflakes in this forum insult Trump, make no mistake that they were insulting anyone who voted for him as well. That's why they all deserve to be treated with contempt.

 

[jillian]

Let's assume that most people here enjoy how ugly our politics have become. The Righties jumped all over Obama for every real, perceived, supposed or imagined sin, and the Lefties are doing the same with Trump. It's all reflected on USMB all day, every day. Absolutely as nasty and dirty and ugly as possible, 24/7.

So what motivates you to do this? Choose whatever answers are appropriate.
.

you left out the actual reason....

I don't do "alternative facts" and no one should tolerate intolerance and bigotry

I'm sure you've noticed the emboldening of white supremacist scum

 

[Pete7469]

That conservative perspective doesn't answer my question.

This kind of behavior obviously isn't going to improve anything, so I'm curious about its motivations.

Would I be right in guessing that, for you, constructive communication is pointless because your intent is to ultimately "beat" the other side?
.

I do not see how the political/cultural conflict in question can end unless one side (the global collectivists preferably) are destroyed as far as how much influence they have by the wide variety of people who reject marxism, reject globalism, and reject liberal immorality.

We are never going to come together because there is no "middle ground" here. You can't have just a little bit of marxism in the "minds" of people who are consumed with envy and hatred for "The %1, or The Rich, or The Jews, or The Corporations" (or whatever boogeymen cause liberal mattresses to stay soiled), and I will find no "middle ground" with "people" who believe I am not endowed by God with the right to self defense, the right to own an arsenal, the right to keep everything I earn, and the right to avoid engaging in business with "people" who disgust me.

I stand by my assertion that it isn't "my side" that has destroyed any and all avenues for "constructive communication". My side is reviled by pop culture in the media, condemned by radical leftist political interest groups posing as advocates of liberty and attacked by mindless lemmings who endorse fascist political philosophy and tactics but are stupid enough to insist they're attacking fascists.

So yes, you're goddamned right I want to "beat" these parasites in the same manner and tactics they used to marginalize those of us who do not want to be euroweenies. My ancestors left europe deliberately. If these assholes want to live that way, they can either go there or kill themselves. It makes no difference to me.