POLL: Trump indictment day for stealing classified documents?

[tahuyaman]

...but the thinking power of a Dim is quite narrow.

They don’t think. They run on emotion.

They are partisan hacks. They believe what the Democrats tell them to believe. That’s easier than thinking.

 

[WorldWatcher]

If he’s indicted, he’ll make the claim. You people are effing clueless.

You particularly are shockingly stupid. Only an idiot would think Trump would not raise the fact that he declassified the documents.

What would be refreshing would be to have a discussion with an intelligent liberal. That’s not going to happen here.

Read what I said, I didn't say he wouldn't raise it in the future. I hope he does.

I said he hasn't made the claim (past tense) in court. Which is true.

I'd love for the FPOTUS to make the claim in a court of law, and then watch the DOJ lawyers shred that claim before a jury.

BTW - I'm not a liberal. Voted GOP in every federal election from 1978 to 2016 (voted twice for Kasich once in the general, once in the primary). I didn't vote FOR Biden in 2020, I voted AGAINST Trump. I wish neither was running for 2024.

WW

 

[Godboy]

It sounds like the indictment(s) will be forthcoming this week - so which day?

EX-PREZ IN A PANIC: TRUMP THINKS CHARGES ARE CLOSE

They wont charge him for taking the documents because, if they did that, they would have to charge Biden too. Instead they will charge him with "obstruction" on what apparently wasnt a crime in the first place. I mean if they arent charging either president for taking documents, then taking documents isnt a crime, right?

 

[tahuyaman]

Read what I said, I didn't say he wouldn't raise it in the future. I hope he does.

I said he hasn't made the claim (past tense) in court. Which is true.

I'd love for the FPOTUS to make the claim in a court of law, and then watch the DOJ lawyers shred that claim before a jury.

BTW - I'm not a liberal. Voted GOP in every federal election from 1978 to 2016 (voted twice for Kasich once in the general, once in the primary). I didn't vote FOR Biden in 2020, I voted AGAINST Trump. I wish neither was running for 2024.

WW

He hasn’t been indicted on this yet.

Jeebus

 

[hadit]

It sounds like the indictment(s) will be forthcoming this week - so which day?

EX-PREZ IN A PANIC: TRUMP THINKS CHARGES ARE CLOSE

Meanwhile, outside the hate filled fever swamp, the rest of the world carries on with little concern over the endless efforts to get something, anything, on a former president, save to shake their heads in amazement at the depth of the obsession.

 

[tahuyaman]

They wont charge him for taking the documents because, if they did that, they would have to charge Biden too. Instead they will charge him with "obstruction" on what apparently wasnt a crime in the first place. I mean if they arent charging either president for taking documents, then taking documents isnt a crime, right?

The obstruction won’t work either because he was asked to add security measures to where he was storing the documents and he complied. In reality, the documents are more secure now.

 

[WorldWatcher]

He hasn’t been indicted on this yet.

Jeebus

Of course not. Never said he was.

All I said was a stated fact. When asked by Judge Dearie if the proceedings following the August search warrant if the FPOTUS was claiming to have declassified the documents, the response was a refusal to answer.

**IF** indicted (future tense), and if he raises the claim in court, that claim will not be taken as gospel. The Prosecution will then be allowed to impeach the claim.

All of that is true.

WW

 

[tahuyaman]

Meanwhile, outside the hate filled fever swamp, the rest of the world carries on with little concern over the endless efforts to get something, anything, on a former president, save to shake their heads in amazement at the depth of the obsession.

The motivation is to somehow find a way to eliminate him as a candidate.

This is a great example of our justice department trying to interfere in an upcoming election.

 

[tahuyaman]

Of course not. Never said he was.

All I said was a stated fact. When asked by Judge Dearie if the proceedings following the August search warrant if the FPOTUS was claiming to have declassified the documents, the response was a refusal to answer.

**IF** indicted (future tense), and if he raises the claim in court, that claim will not be taken as gospel. The Prosecution will then be allowed to impeach the claim.

All of that is true.

WW

The documents were declassified by Trump. He’s not going to claim otherwise.

 

[WorldWatcher]

The obstruction won’t work either because he was asked to add security measures to where he was storing the documents and he complied. In reality, the documents are more secure now.

The obstruction charge isn't going to be based on putting a lock on the door in June 2022 while the NARA/FBI was getting a search warrant (executed in August).

It will be for stonewalling the NARA for 16 months, stonewalling the NARA/FBI for two more months, failure to comply with a court ordered subpoena, moving records to hide them, etc.

[BTW - It was very nice of them to add a lock on the door while the government was getting the search warrant. Thanks to them.]

WW

 

[WorldWatcher]

The documents were declassified by Trump. He’s not going to claim otherwise.

As I said will love to see him make the claim before a judge.

He says that was done in advance and not expost facto. He will have to prove that to counter the classification information the government will show.

WW

 

[tahuyaman]

The obstruction charge isn't going to be based on putting a lock on the door in June 2022 while the NARA/FBI was getting a search warrant (executed in August).

It will be for stonewalling the NARA for 16 months, stonewalling the NARA/FBI for two more months, failure to comply with a court ordered subpoena, moving records to hide them, etc.

[BTW - It was very nice of them to add a lock on the door while the government was getting the search warrant. Thanks to them.]

WW

I suggest that you research the Presidential Records Act. Then get back to me. I doubt you’ll do that though. It won’t support your partisan agenda.

 

[WorldWatcher]

I suggest that you research the Presidential Records Act. Then get back to me. I doubt you’ll do that though. It won’t support your partisan agenda.

Presidential Records (44 U.S.C. Chapter 22)

(44 U.S.C. Chapter 22) § 2201. Definitions § 2202. Ownership of Presidential records § 2203. Management and custody of Presidential records § 2204. Restrictions on access to Presidential records § 2205. Exceptions to restricted access § 2206. Regulations § 2207. Vice-Presidential records § Note...

www.archives.gov

Here is the full text of the act. Read it multiple times over the last year or so.

So what part would you like to discuss?

WW

 

[tahuyaman]

As I said will love to see him make the claim before a judge.

He says that was done in advance and not expost facto. He will have to prove that to counter the classification information the government will show.

WW

Fact. A president had the authority to declassify just about anything he wishes to declassify. A judge can’t change that.

There’s no defined procedure in place which dictates how a president declassifies information. A judge can’t invent this process.

A president doesn’t need to make public declaration that he declassified information. A judge can’t say otherwise.

 

[tahuyaman]

Presidential Records (44 U.S.C. Chapter 22)

(44 U.S.C. Chapter 22) § 2201. Definitions § 2202. Ownership of Presidential records § 2203. Management and custody of Presidential records § 2204. Restrictions on access to Presidential records § 2205. Exceptions to restricted access § 2206. Regulations § 2207. Vice-Presidential records § Note...

www.archives.gov

Here is the full text of the act. Read it multiple times over the last year or so.

So what part would you like to discuss?

WW

The part that says a president doesn’t the authority to declassify things he wants to declassify. You won’t, because you won’t find that.

 

[tahuyaman]

Trump caused formerly sane people to lose their mind and it’s a permanent condition. It’s the most bizarre thing I’ve ever seen in American politics. Plus those Bo lost their mind, don’t know it.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Fact. A president had the authority to declassify just about anything he wishes to declassify. A judge can’t change that.

There’s no defined procedure in place which dictates how a president declassifies information. A judge can’t invent this process.

A president doesn’t need to make public declaration that he declassified information. A judge can’t say otherwise.

#1 Never said he didn't.

#2 An ex-President also can't claim he did when he didn't as a means of CYA.

#3 So he will make the claim he did, then the DOJ gets to impeach the claim. Then it will be up to the Judge and Jury on who they believe.

#4 You are fundamentally wrong if you think a President can secretly and mentally declassify information and not tell anyone.

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See this is what people that don't understand "classified" shows. Documents are not "declassified" it is the information in the document that is declassified.

For example let’s say that there are 6 copies of a specific document containing specific classified information. One located in the White House, 5 located amongst various agencies which also need the document. In addition there are subordinate documents that contain (either in part of in whole some of the same classified information).

Under a normal process when the information contained in a highly classified documents is declassified (or downgraded) that impacts all copies of the document (its information, and subordinate documents containing the same information in whole or portions of a subordinate document).

So If the FPOTUS "declassified" a document, he is really declassifying the information in that document. If the FPOTUS, while acting as POTUS, "declassified" the information without telling anyone (either directly or in writing) for that specific document, you end up with:

• One copy of the information located at the White House (or one of his Country Clubs) being "declassified", and
• Five copies of the information located at the responsible agencies still being classified as the responsible agencies will not know the information was declassified because the FPOTUS (while POTUS) just mentally declassified the information in his head.

The result is someone could be prosecuted for improper handling of classified material for actions related to the 5 responsible agency documents, but not for improper handling of the exact same document if the source of the document was the White House. But they contain the same information! By this we are talking about the information in the document and subordinate information which sourced the document which can have even wider reaching impacts.

The national security infrastructure cannot function in a reasonable way if the same information is both classified and declassified at the same time simply because the POTUS chooses not to tell anyone.

Kind of a Schrodinger's Classified document where the same information is both classified and declassified at the same time until someone asks the FPOTUS to find out if he mentally and secretly declassified it without telling anyone while still POTUS. Normal people wouldn't know just be looking at the document.

WW

 

[WorldWatcher]

I suggest that you research the Presidential Records Act. Then get back to me. I doubt you’ll do that though. It won’t support your partisan agenda.

Presidential Records (44 U.S.C. Chapter 22)

(44 U.S.C. Chapter 22) § 2201. Definitions § 2202. Ownership of Presidential records § 2203. Management and custody of Presidential records § 2204. Restrictions on access to Presidential records § 2205. Exceptions to restricted access § 2206. Regulations § 2207. Vice-Presidential records § Note...

www.archives.gov

Here is the full text of the act. Read it multiple times over the last year or so.

So what part would you like to discuss?

WW

The part that says a president doesn’t the authority to declassify things he wants to declassify. You won’t, because you won’t find that.

You directed me to the Presidential Records Act of 1978, when I ask about what part you want to discuss you refer me to something not in the Presidential Records Act?

That makes no sense.

You said "I suggest that you research the Presidential Records Act. Then get back to me.". I have, I'm getting back to you and I'm asking what part of the law you referred me to should I get back with you about?

(And I again, I've never claimed a President while in office can't declassify information. So take that strawman somewhere else please.)

WW

 

[tahuyaman]

You directed me to the Presidential Records Act of 1978, when I ask about what part you want to discuss you refer me to something not in the Presidential Records Act?

That makes no sense.

You said "I suggest that you research the Presidential Records Act. Then get back to me.". I have, I'm getting back to you and I'm asking what part of the law you referred me to should I get back with you about?

(And I again, I've never claimed a President while in office can't declassify information. So take that strawman somewhere else please.)

WW

You aren’t intelligent enough to participate in this discussion.

 

[tahuyaman]

You guys say things when you have no idea what you’re talking about.


He’s already made the claim he declassified them. He had the authority to declassify just about anything he wanted to declassify. There’s also no defined process to do that. A presidents authority to declassify is quite broad.

Now some idiot is claiming the fact that Trump declassified the info he retained is fake news. WTF?