Police License Plate Recognition Vehicles

[Missourian]

This may be old news to some, but I saw a "License Plate Recognition Vehicle" scanning every plate on the highway today. This wasn't a police cruiser that happened to be scanning plates...this was a police vehicle dedicated solely to license plate recognition and capture.

How do I know? It was printed in large block letters across the trunk hatch.

The privacy issues created by this technology are staggering.

City Cops' Plate Scanner is a License to Snoop


By Bruce Schneier

New Haven Register

September 19, 2004

New Haven police have a new law enforcement tool: a license-plate scanner. Similar to a radar gun, it reads the license plates of moving or parked cars and links with remote police databases, immediately providing information about the car and owner.

Right now the police check if there are any taxes owed on the car, if the car or license plate is stolen, and if the car is unregistered or uninsured. A car that comes up positive is towed.

On the face of it, this is nothing new. The police have always been able to run a license plate. The difference is they would do it manually, and that limited its use. It simply wasn't feasible for the police to run the plates of every car in a parking garage, or every car that passed through an intersection. What's different isn't the police tactic, but the efficiency of the process. Technology is fundamentally changing the nature of surveillance.

Years ago, surveillance meant trench-coated detectives following people down streets. It was laborious and expensive, and was only used when there was reasonable suspicion of a crime.

Modern surveillance is the policeman with a license-plate scanner, or even a remote license-plate scanner mounted on a traffic light and a policeman sitting at a computer in the station. It's the same, but it's completely different. It's wholesale surveillance.

And it disrupts the balance between the powers of the police and the rights of the people.

Link http://www.schneier.com/essay-057.html

 

[Dis]

What privacy issue? Seriously.. If you haven't done anything wrong, aren't skirting the law for anything, don't have any unpaid fines, haven't stolen your car, and are driving with a valid license and insurance, who cares if they run your plate?

 

[catzmeow]

It's a privacy issue because as the federal laws have been interpreted, the police are required to have REASONABLE SUSPICION of criminal activity before collecting and/or analyzing information on private citizens. I have a suspicion that this will be thrown out.

This isn't like cameras at stoplights, this is wholesale snooping without probably cause. That's problematic.

 

[Zoom-boing]

This may be old news to some, but I saw a "License Plate Recognition Vehicle" scanning every plate on the highway today. This wasn't a police cruiser that happened to be scanning plates...this was a police vehicle dedicated solely to license plate recognition and capture.

How do I know? It was printed in large block letters across the trunk hatch.

The privacy issues created by this technology are staggering.

City Cops' Plate Scanner is a License to Snoop


By Bruce Schneier

New Haven Register

September 19, 2004

New Haven police have a new law enforcement tool: a license-plate scanner. Similar to a radar gun, it reads the license plates of moving or parked cars and links with remote police databases, immediately providing information about the car and owner.

Right now the police check if there are any taxes owed on the car, if the car or license plate is stolen, and if the car is unregistered or uninsured. A car that comes up positive is towed.

On the face of it, this is nothing new. The police have always been able to run a license plate. The difference is they would do it manually, and that limited its use. It simply wasn't feasible for the police to run the plates of every car in a parking garage, or every car that passed through an intersection. What's different isn't the police tactic, but the efficiency of the process. Technology is fundamentally changing the nature of surveillance.

Years ago, surveillance meant trench-coated detectives following people down streets. It was laborious and expensive, and was only used when there was reasonable suspicion of a crime.

Modern surveillance is the policeman with a license-plate scanner, or even a remote license-plate scanner mounted on a traffic light and a policeman sitting at a computer in the station. It's the same, but it's completely different. It's wholesale surveillance.

And it disrupts the balance between the powers of the police and the rights of the people.

Link Op Ed: City Cops' Plate Scanner is a License to Snoop

I'm all for getting law breakers to pay up; this seems like an effective way to do it. Why isn't this a good thing? If you haven't done anything wrong, what's the problem?

 

[Dis]

It's a privacy issue because as the federal laws have been interpreted, the police are required to have REASONABLE SUSPICION of criminal activity before collecting and/or analyzing information on private citizens. I have a suspicion that this will be thrown out.

This isn't like cameras at stoplights, this is wholesale snooping without probably cause. That's problematic.

It's not like they're stopping you, pulling you over, and making you wait while they run your plates.. They're simply scanning as you're driving to where you need to be... Again, if you are doing everything legally, what's the problem? I dunno about you, but I'd rather someone that lost their license due to a DUI, hit & run, or whatever be yanked off the road before they can do more harm...

 

[KittenKoder]

Faster, easier, more effective, and cheaper ... same purpose. I like it. As Dis pointed out, at least you don't have to wait an hour while they run your plates for a routine stop anymore.

 

[Missourian]

What privacy issue? Seriously.. If you haven't done anything wrong, aren't skirting the law for anything, don't have any unpaid fines, haven't stolen your car, and are driving with a valid license and insurance, who cares if they run your plate?

Extending that logic...I should allow the FBI to listen in on all phone conversation...as I have no conversations with. criminals or terrorists to worry about them overhearing, and allow the INS to search my house once a week...I hide no illegal immigrants in there, and have drug sniffing dogs at every intersection...sure they'll catch some lawbreakers, but I don't carry contraband so nothing for me to worry about. Sure these are extreme examples, but that is the road we are heading down.

The police should need some probable cause to run a license plate...like the article said, if I wanted my whereabouts known, I wouldn't need a license plate...I would just have my name and address printed on the tailgate of my pickup.

 

[Dis]

What privacy issue? Seriously.. If you haven't done anything wrong, aren't skirting the law for anything, don't have any unpaid fines, haven't stolen your car, and are driving with a valid license and insurance, who cares if they run your plate?

Extending that logic...I should allow the FBI to listen in on all phone conversation...as I have no conversations with. criminals or terrorists to worry about them overhearing, and allow the INS to search my house once a week...I hide no illegal immigrants in there, and have drug sniffing dogs at every intersection...sure they'll catch some lawbreakers, but I don't carry contraband so nothing for me to worry about. Sure these are extreme examples, but that is the road we are heading down.

The police should need some probable cause to run a license plate...like the article said, if I wanted my whereabouts known, I wouldn't need a license plate...I would just have my name and address printed on the tailgate of my pickup.

I expect most peoples conversations would bore the FBI to tears... And yes, your other examples are pretty much over the top.. But I don't think any harm is being done with them just zapping a license plate in passing.. Like I said.. if it gets dangerous people off the roads.. The only people that need be worried are those that shouldn't be there in the first place.

I also don't think it's going to go as far as you do, either, but that's just me.

Then again, I'm not exactly prone to doing *anything* illegal (I don't even drive after I've had a single drink), so...it really doesn't phase me right now.

 

[KittenKoder]

What privacy issue? Seriously.. If you haven't done anything wrong, aren't skirting the law for anything, don't have any unpaid fines, haven't stolen your car, and are driving with a valid license and insurance, who cares if they run your plate?

Extending that logic...I should allow the FBI to listen in on all phone conversation...as I have no conversations with. criminals or terrorists to worry about them overhearing, and allow the INS to search my house once a week...I hide no illegal immigrants in there, and have drug sniffing dogs at every intersection...sure they'll catch some lawbreakers, but I don't carry contraband so nothing for me to worry about. Sure these are extreme examples, but that is the road we are heading down.

The police should need some probable cause to run a license plate...like the article said, if I wanted my whereabouts known, I wouldn't need a license plate...I would just have my name and address printed on the tailgate of my pickup.

You do realize they don't have to have probable cause to run a plate, and considering if your car was stolen you wouldn't want the to require that since that's how they find stolen cars to return to their rightful owners. Running plates is already done, this just speeds up the process and cuts down on the required personnel or increases the number of cars they can find. All that info is already easy to track, so trust me, this in no way increases how much they know about you.

 

[Missourian]

What privacy issue? Seriously.. If you haven't done anything wrong, aren't skirting the law for anything, don't have any unpaid fines, haven't stolen your car, and are driving with a valid license and insurance, who cares if they run your plate?

Extending that logic...I should allow the FBI to listen in on all phone conversation...as I have no conversations with. criminals or terrorists to worry about them overhearing, and allow the INS to search my house once a week...I hide no illegal immigrants in there, and have drug sniffing dogs at every intersection...sure they'll catch some lawbreakers, but I don't carry contraband so nothing for me to worry about. Sure these are extreme examples, but that is the road we are heading down.

The police should need some probable cause to run a license plate...like the article said, if I wanted my whereabouts known, I wouldn't need a license plate...I would just have my name and address printed on the tailgate of my pickup.

I expect most peoples conversations would bore the FBI to tears... And yes, your other examples are pretty much over the top.. But I don't think any harm is being done with them just zapping a license plate in passing.. Like I said.. if it gets dangerous people off the roads.. The only people that need be worried are those that shouldn't be there in the first place.

I also don't think it's going to go as far as you do, either, but that's just me.

Then again, I'm not exactly prone to doing *anything* illegal (I don't even drive after I've had a single drink), so...it really doesn't phase me right now.

I can easily envision the power this technology imparts to the government being turned to not-so-noble uses, especially in light of a recent DHS memo on domestic terrorism.

Imagine unmarked vehicles making passes thru parking lots of Tea Party rallies, or Sierra Club meeting, or PETA lectures, or Minute Men assemblies. In seconds a list is compiled, cross referenced and added to a database for analysis.

We know Hoover attempted this without this technology...think about the temptation when this modern marvel makes it virtually undetectable and instantaneous.

 

[Dis]

Extending that logic...I should allow the FBI to listen in on all phone conversation...as I have no conversations with. criminals or terrorists to worry about them overhearing, and allow the INS to search my house once a week...I hide no illegal immigrants in there, and have drug sniffing dogs at every intersection...sure they'll catch some lawbreakers, but I don't carry contraband so nothing for me to worry about. Sure these are extreme examples, but that is the road we are heading down.

The police should need some probable cause to run a license plate...like the article said, if I wanted my whereabouts known, I wouldn't need a license plate...I would just have my name and address printed on the tailgate of my pickup.

I expect most peoples conversations would bore the FBI to tears... And yes, your other examples are pretty much over the top.. But I don't think any harm is being done with them just zapping a license plate in passing.. Like I said.. if it gets dangerous people off the roads.. The only people that need be worried are those that shouldn't be there in the first place.

I also don't think it's going to go as far as you do, either, but that's just me.

Then again, I'm not exactly prone to doing *anything* illegal (I don't even drive after I've had a single drink), so...it really doesn't phase me right now.

I can easily envision the power this technology imparts to the government being turned to not-so-noble uses, especially in light of a recent DHS memo on domestic terrorism.

Imagine unmarked vehicles making passes thru parking lots of Tea Party rallies, or Sierra Club meeting, or PETA lectures, or Minute Men assemblies. In seconds a list is compiled, cross referenced and added to a database for analysis.

We know Hoover attempted this without this technology...think about the temptation when this modern marvel makes it virtually undetectable and instantaneous.

Look at it this way..some uber hot chick cop could think you're hot, run your plate, find out where you live, and show up wearing nothing but her holster, and dangling a pair of handcuffs.

Oh, the abuse..

 

[KittenKoder]

Extending that logic...I should allow the FBI to listen in on all phone conversation...as I have no conversations with. criminals or terrorists to worry about them overhearing, and allow the INS to search my house once a week...I hide no illegal immigrants in there, and have drug sniffing dogs at every intersection...sure they'll catch some lawbreakers, but I don't carry contraband so nothing for me to worry about. Sure these are extreme examples, but that is the road we are heading down.

The police should need some probable cause to run a license plate...like the article said, if I wanted my whereabouts known, I wouldn't need a license plate...I would just have my name and address printed on the tailgate of my pickup.

I expect most peoples conversations would bore the FBI to tears... And yes, your other examples are pretty much over the top.. But I don't think any harm is being done with them just zapping a license plate in passing.. Like I said.. if it gets dangerous people off the roads.. The only people that need be worried are those that shouldn't be there in the first place.

I also don't think it's going to go as far as you do, either, but that's just me.

Then again, I'm not exactly prone to doing *anything* illegal (I don't even drive after I've had a single drink), so...it really doesn't phase me right now.

I can easily envision the power this technology imparts to the government being turned to not-so-noble uses, especially in light of a recent DHS memo on domestic terrorism.

Imagine unmarked vehicles making passes thru parking lots of Tea Party rallies, or Sierra Club meeting, or PETA lectures, or Minute Men assemblies. In seconds a list is compiled, cross referenced and added to a database for analysis.

We know Hoover attempted this without this technology...think about the temptation when this modern marvel makes it virtually undetectable and instantaneous.

Seriously? You really think they'd track every move of every car that way? Most cars have GPS, if they really wanted to do that they'd use GPS since then they wouldn't have to run around following you. Also, don't you realize that they randomly check plates already to increase their chances of finding stolen vehicles and plates? This only decreases the speed of the current checks, it doesn't offer them more information than they already have nor does it allow them to "track" movements. You are over thinking this and sounding like a conspiracy nut.