Zone1 Paying Reparations for the Past

[IM2]

No, it isn't. It's based on the fact that none of you deserve it.

It's based on what I said. Because:

I am quite sure no one living in 1980 was alive when the U.S. government made the Fort Laramie treaty with the Sioux Nation or were participants in Custers violation of that treaty. Nor were they alive when President Grant decided it was OK to let settlers and people prospecting for gold tresspass into land promised to the Sioux thereby violating the treaty. No one in 1980 was alive when the U.S. government decided to take the land from the Sioux by military force. No one in 1980 was alive when the U.S. government decided to cut off supplies they promised the Sioux as condition for their surrender after whipping the U.S. Army at The Battle of Little Bighorn. But in 1980, the government of the United States decided reparations were due to the Sioux Nation for what was done to them in the 1800’s. They awarded the Sioux nation 105 million dollars. Now to our Sioux Nation brothers and sisters, let me say that money is just a pittance of what you are truly owed, but my point here is to render the excuses made in opposition to reparations for blacks to what it is, the racist refusal to take responsibility for what this government has done to black citizens of this nation.

United States v. Sioux Nation of Indians :: 448 U.S. 371 (1980) :: Justia US Supreme Court Center, United States v. Sioux Nation of Indians, 448 U.S. 371 (1980)

And since the violations kept going and still happen now, your argument based on white race baited garbage, has no merit. You simply have no ground to stand on and "I'm white and I say so" is not an argument.

 

[IM2]

blacks get reperations every first of the month for 50 plus years.

That's a lie. STFU.

 

[ninja007]

That's a lie. STFU.

TRUE/ The very thing your typing on was invented by a white person.

 

[IM2]

TRUE/ The very thing your typing on was invented by a white person.

You're . And what you said was not true.

Then we have this:

Image courtesy of Dr. Mark Dean & Sergei Korolko/Getty Images

Color IBM PC Monitor and Gigahertz Chip, Co-Invented by Mark Dean c. 1980 and 1999​

Before flat screens and hi-definition LCD monitors were the norm, PC displays were limited to screens with no color that were tethered to computers with limited processing power. That all changed thanks to Black inventor and engineer Mark Dean. Dean began working for IBM as a chief engineer in the early 1980s, making up a team of 12 people who would develop the first IBM PC. In addition to helping create IBM’s original machine in his early years with the company, he also worked to develop the color monitor and led the team that developed the first gigahertz processor. The massive chip, built in 1999, would allow for for higher processing rates at faster speeds within PCs.

8 Black Inventors Who Made Daily Life Easier | HISTORY

Black inventors changed the way we live through their brilliant innovations, from the traffic light to the ironing board.

www.history.com

 

[woodwork201]

No. This is a case against the government.

Which is exactly why your idea is idiotic.

The government signed treaties with the Indians - contracts, so to speak but even more so and more binding. Absolute obligations according to the Supremacy Clause in the Constitution; treaties made in accordance with the Constitution are the law of the land.

The government didn't sign any treaties or contracts with slaves. As sad as it was, slavery was the law of the land. If you want to sue someone, sue the British, the Portugese, the Dutch, and the Africans who started the slavery in the US.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

So you want people who never owned slaves.
To give money to people who were never slaves? ...

/ thread

 

[woodwork201]

You're . And what you said was not true.

Then we have this:
View attachment 658973

Image courtesy of Dr. Mark Dean & Sergei Korolko/Getty Images

Color IBM PC Monitor and Gigahertz Chip, Co-Invented by Mark Dean c. 1980 and 1999​

Before flat screens and hi-definition LCD monitors were the norm, PC displays were limited to screens with no color that were tethered to computers with limited processing power. That all changed thanks to Black inventor and engineer Mark Dean. Dean began working for IBM as a chief engineer in the early 1980s, making up a team of 12 people who would develop the first IBM PC. In addition to helping create IBM’s original machine in his early years with the company, he also worked to develop the color monitor and led the team that developed the first gigahertz processor. The massive chip, built in 1999, would allow for for higher processing rates at faster speeds within PCs.

8 Black Inventors Who Made Daily Life Easier | HISTORY

Black inventors changed the way we live through their brilliant innovations, from the traffic light to the ironing board.

www.history.com

Those are fantastic stories. Thanks for sharing them. Now, get the schools to start telling black children about these stories and the great things they can do on their own if they only work hard. Tell your Democrat leaders to make successful black stories central to teaching all children. Tell the Democrats to teach black children mathematics and science so they can go on to college, learn even more, and replicate the great things done by the black people in your linked article.

 

[woodwork201]

Except they are the ones who have been listening. I do think that working on this inflation and Ukraine might be higher priorities. Republicans won't even vote for voting rights.

You're shitting me... Seriously? Black people don't have the right to vote? Well, damn. I'm writing my Congressman tonight and telling her I want that fixed immediately. I thought that the 15th Amendment had given all citizens the right to vote. I thought that Section 2 of the 15th Amendment allowed Congress to fix that: "The Congress shall have the power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation."

I'm curious though; if no black people are voting, then this Congress person was elected by white people.. Surprising but it completely disproves racism in white voters.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

These threads are stupid, boring and repetitive.

 

[there4eyeM]

The country exists due to collective action. Even though the U.S. is not paradise, we would have to admit that most Americans are as well or better off here than they would be in their places of ethnic origin. That is because the nation is where it is due to what it did in the past, collectively taken. Many past actions were constructive and some were not, but where we are now is better than humans have been before.
The nature of America's radically different form of government should have eliminated the domination of groups by other groups. Europeans should have stopped oppressing the peoples they found in America, men should have stopped oppressing women, slavery should never have been allowed. Though much was accomplished in initiating the Union and enormous freedoms were established, not everything was possible to be achieved at one time.
Off all the problems not adequately addressed at the inception of our country, slavery was certainly one of the greatest. It festered until crisis compelled resolution. A cataclysmic war of horrible ferocity was fought. Hundreds of thousands died. An immense price was paid, in every sense of the term. That war did not solve every problem and did not resolve the error of racism. It did result in the end of slavery. America paid the price for its initial mistake of allowing the institution to exist. To revisit that now and try to set some dollar amount on payments from some people to others cannot be begun until the value of all those deaths is established.
After that, we can start to debate how much women are owed.

 

[Mac-7]

The difference from where IM2 is and where he wants to be is:

The US government admits that it didnt honor the treaties it made with the Indians and they were removed from land that rightfully belonged to them

But there is no practical way to right that wrong since we cannot and will not return the stolen land to them

Black people who were held in slavery were wronged also but all the slaves are dead and laws were passed guaranteeing equal protection for blacks today.

Meaning that blacks who were never slaves are not entitled to reparations

 

[IM2]

The difference from where IM2 is and where he wants to be is:

The US government admits that it didnt honor the treaties it made with the Indians and they were removed from land that rightfully belonged to them

But there is no practical way to right that wrong since we cannot and will not return the stolen land to them

Black people who were held in slavery were wronged also but all the slaves are dead and laws were passed guaranteeing equal protection for blacks today.

Meaning that blacks who were never slaves are not entitled to reparations

The problem with this mumbo jumbo is the fact that blacks who have endured the effects of Jim Crown and the people today who grew up during jim crow who make laws and policies in our current system have suffered from continued violations and the refusal of whites to follow equal opportunity laws.

You really don't have an argument. But you'll keep trying.

 

[fncceo]

The opposition to black reparations is based on sheer racist hatred.

Or based on the fact that it's a phenomenally bad idea.

 

[IM2]

The country exists due to collective action. Even though the U.S. is not paradise, we would have to admit that most Americans are as well or better off here than they would be in their places of ethnic origin. That is because the nation is where it is due to what it did in the past, collectively taken. Many past actions were constructive and some were not, but where we are now is better than humans have been before.
The nature of America's radically different form of government should have eliminated the domination of groups by other groups. Europeans should have stopped oppressing the peoples they found in America, men should have stopped oppressing women, slavery should never have been allowed. Though much was accomplished in initiating the Union and enormous freedoms were established, not everything was possible to be achieved at one time.
Off all the problems not adequately addressed at the inception of our country, slavery was certainly one of the greatest. It festered until crisis compelled resolution. A cataclysmic war of horrible ferocity was fought. Hundreds of thousands died. An immense price was paid, in every sense of the term. That war did not solve every problem and did not resolve the error of racism. It did result in the end of slavery. America paid the price for its initial mistake of allowing the institution to exist. To revisit that now and try to set some dollar amount on payments from some people to others cannot be begun until the value of all those deaths is established.
After that, we can start to debate how much women are owed.

Again, the end of slavery did not end white atrocities against blacks. There was no war to end slavery. America didn't pay shit to the people that created the wealth that began making America the wealthiest country on earth. Again, you really have no argument, and it gets old repeating that reparations are not just for slavery to a bunch of people who want to play silly games.

“From its inception, the country’s legal foundations, political architecture, and civic fabric were designed to privilege the well-being of those who declared themselves white at the expense of Native Americans, African Americans, and other people of color. Generation after generation, as the baldest tactics were challenged, white America creatively renewed and reworked this pact to protect ourselves from political disempowerment, economic uncertainty, legal jeopardy, and physical violence. When the weight of the blood spilled by over 750,000 Americans shattered outright slavery, white America picked up the shards, fashioning them into a ramshackle but effective system of sharecropping, lynching, convict leasing, segregationist Jim Crow laws, restrictive immigration policies, appeals to “states’ rights,” voter suppression, and mass incarceration.” -Robert P. Jones

We cannot discuss what women are owed because white women were complicit in slavery and apartheid. On top of that, women who got divorced have been getting alimony payments for years. Those are reparations. I mean you guys think you're making logical arguments but you aren't.

 

[IM2]

Or based on the fact that it's a phenomenally bad idea.

Only to white racists. Reparations is the solution to economic inequality. The government has given whites direct economic assistance at least 3 times in it's history and that help has given whites the economic advantages they have now. Yet we have a subculture in the white communuty suffeering from a delusion whereby they believe they lifted themselves up alone.

 

[IM2]

We heard the slogan, “Make America Great Again” (MAGA) from 2016 to 2020. Millions of working-class whites purchased red baseball caps, proudly sporting them on their heads. M.A.G.A refers to a return to days right-wing whites believed America grew and prospered based on hard work and merit. The leader of this movement was a man born in 1946. This is important because most people in national leadership today were born shortly after World War II and grew up in the prosperous aftermath. They were children while their parents availed themselves of the massive government assistance primarily given to whites. They grew up in racially segregated suburbs in homes their parents paid for with the help of guaranteed loans backed by the government.

Their parents, primarily fathers, were able to take advantage of all the government benefits from the G.I. bill. They watched the government enact a massive infrastructure project that has created permanent jobs in all fifty states called the interstate highway system. As children during that era, they were oblivious to the enormous government assistance whites received. As they grew up during this era and the so-called American work ethic was preached about, they saw only the progress and grew up to believe it was due to rugged individualism and earned by merit.

These are the people telling us today that government cannot help us. And you descend from these people talking about how blacks should not get reparations.

 

[there4eyeM]

Sorry to have added to another troll thread.

 

[IM2]

Sorry to have added to another troll thread.

This is no troll thread. Those like you don't seem to understand the importance of this issue. You guys dismiss the last 160 years as if everything was OK. You guys seem to believe that words on paper are automatically followed. Maybe that's how it is for whites, but that doesn't happen for us. And I do think it's time you guys faced this instead of making these wack arguments that do not make sense.

 

[fncceo]

Reparations is the solution to economic inequality.

No, because A) eliminating the sources of economic inequality is the solution.

Giving someone a one-off payment won't solve any systemic issues and, within a very short time, after all the reparations money has been spent, the inequality will still remain.

And B) economic inequality isn't specific to any one particular group. Most minority groups face some sort of economic inequality.

If you are really looking to rectify economic inequality via a one-time handout, then the only logical recipient of reparations would be women (regardless of race).

Women, according to studies, in 2022 make 16% less for men working the same job. Annual personal income in America is 24 Trillion ... so American women earn 4.16 TRILLION less than American men every year. That is $38,500 less for EVERY SINGLE woman of job age in America each year.

Multiply that by the number of years women have received less than men ... since the founding of the US in 1776, 246 years ago ... that comes out to $9.5 MILLION to each woman of job age in America.

Then, we could include job age Hispanics, Asians, Native Americans, etc, and see where the numbers go from there.


And, even if we did that ... it wouldn't do anything about actually addressing the economic inequalities that started the disparity in the first place.

 

[westwall]

It's based on what I said. Because:

I am quite sure no one living in 1980 was alive when the U.S. government made the Fort Laramie treaty with the Sioux Nation or were participants in Custers violation of that treaty. Nor were they alive when President Grant decided it was OK to let settlers and people prospecting for gold tresspass into land promised to the Sioux thereby violating the treaty. No one in 1980 was alive when the U.S. government decided to take the land from the Sioux by military force. No one in 1980 was alive when the U.S. government decided to cut off supplies they promised the Sioux as condition for their surrender after whipping the U.S. Army at The Battle of Little Bighorn. But in 1980, the government of the United States decided reparations were due to the Sioux Nation for what was done to them in the 1800’s. They awarded the Sioux nation 105 million dollars. Now to our Sioux Nation brothers and sisters, let me say that money is just a pittance of what you are truly owed, but my point here is to render the excuses made in opposition to reparations for blacks to what it is, the racist refusal to take responsibility for what this government has done to black citizens of this nation.

United States v. Sioux Nation of Indians :: 448 U.S. 371 (1980) :: Justia US Supreme Court Center, United States v. Sioux Nation of Indians, 448 U.S. 371 (1980)

And since the violations kept going and still happen now, your argument based on white race baited garbage, has no merit. You simply have no ground to stand on and "I'm white and I say so" is not an argument.

Those payments were because the federal government stole land that was covered by a treaty, thus it was an ongoing crime.

It wasn't for crimes against people, but for theft of property from people who are still alive.