Palestine and Jerusalem belong to Muslims

[Delta4Embassy]

"Palestine and Jerusalem belong to Muslims"

"If you want it, come and claim it!"

There is nothing sexy or glorious about someone holding a gun, especially a kid like that.

Too vague?

"If you want him, come and claim him!" - "Lord of the Rings"

Haha fair enough, But I'm sure I don't have to tell you that there is a big difference between fantasy violence and real life conflict. Easy to cheer when an orc gets beheaded, but watching people cheer while humans butcher each other is tragic. I have seen the bodies of those hacked to death by machetes. It looks a lot different than Peter Jackson imagined it. I never link the two as I tend to find it dehumanizing and a downplaying of the seriousness of the issue.

Sure, but a lot of movies, especially in the fantasy and sci-fi genres are symbolic for real world things. If said in a real-world sorta movie, the intent would be clear and upset people, so writers often use make-believe genres to say what they wanna say without offending people. "Star Wars" was a Greek mythical story for example following identical themes the Greeks used with heros, monsters, etc. "The Matrix" was a Jewish metaphor through and through.

Star Wars sources and analogues - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

"Star Wars, the popular space opera saga, and cultural touchstone, is acknowledged to have been inspired by many sources. These include Hinduism, Qigong, Greek philosophy, Greek mythology, Roman history, Roman mythology, parts of the Abrahamic religions, Confucianism, Shintō, and Taoism, not to mention countless cinematic precursors."

Beyond the Matrix

"The Matrix is a powerful metaphor expressing some of Judaism's most fundamental beliefs."

While Tolkien denies LOtR was a metaphor (for WWII) that doesn't mean I can't make it one.

 

[Osomir]

"Palestine and Jerusalem belong to Muslims"

"If you want it, come and claim it!"

There is nothing sexy or glorious about someone holding a gun, especially a kid like that.

Too vague?

"If you want him, come and claim him!" - "Lord of the Rings"

Haha fair enough, But I'm sure I don't have to tell you that there is a big difference between fantasy violence and real life conflict. Easy to cheer when an orc gets beheaded, but watching people cheer while humans butcher each other is tragic. I have seen the bodies of those hacked to death by machetes. It looks a lot different than Peter Jackson imagined it. I never link the two as I tend to find it dehumanizing and a downplaying of the seriousness of the issue.

Sure, but a lot of movies, especially in the fantasy and sci-fi genres are symbolic for real world things. If said in a real-world sorta movie, the intent would be clear and upset people, so writers often use make-believe genres to say what they wanna say without offending people. "Star Wars" was a Greek mythical story for example following identical themes the Greeks used with heros, monsters, etc. "The Matrix" was a Jewish metaphor through and through.

Star Wars sources and analogues - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

"Star Wars, the popular space opera saga, and cultural touchstone, is acknowledged to have been inspired by many sources. These include Hinduism, Qigong, Greek philosophy, Greek mythology, Roman history, Roman mythology, parts of the Abrahamic religions, Confucianism, Shintō, and Taoism, not to mention countless cinematic precursors."

Beyond the Matrix

"The Matrix is a powerful metaphor expressing some of Judaism's most fundamental beliefs."

While Tolkien denies LOtR was a metaphor (for WWII) that doesn't mean I can't make it one.

I enjoy mythology and fantasy, and I often see the influences of history and historical mythology especially within the fantasy and sci-fi genres. That doesn't bother me, the glorification of killing each other tends to though. I've also known people who literally try to cope with the realities of conflict that they are faced with by equating themselves to fantasy or mythical figures / story lines. Those men always break once reality becomes too much for them to fit into their conceptualizations. Outside of conflict zones, it makes fighting seem more clean and meaningful than it tends to be. stabbing an orc from horseback while dramatic music plays is a lot different than a little boy who is forced to rape his grandmother and beat his father to death with a stick before being given drugs and brainwashed into killing civilians for sport.

 

[Roudy]

"They never ruled", eh. Take for example the Hamdanid dynasty:

The Hamdanid dynasty (Arabic: حمدانيون‎ Ḥamdānyūn) was a Shi'a[1] MuslimArab dynasty of northern Iraq (Al-Jazirah) and Syria (890-1004). They descended from the ancient Banu Taghlib Christian tribe of Mesopotamia and east Arabia. The Hamdanid dynasty was founded by Hamdan ibn Hamdun (after whom it is named), when he was appointed governor of Mardin in SE Anatolia by the Abbasid Caliphs in 890.

His son Abdallah (904-929) was in turn appointed governor of Mosul in northern Iraq (906) and even governed Baghdad (914). His sons were installed as governors in Mosul and Aleppo.

The rule of Hassan Nasir ad-Daula (929-968), governor of Mosul and Diyarbakır, was sufficiently tyrannical to cause him to be deposed by his own family.

His lineage still ruled in Mossul, a heavy defeat by the Buyids in 979 notwithstanding, until 990. After this, their area of control in northern Iraq was divided between the Uqailids and the Marwanids.

Ali Saif al-Daula 'Sword of the State' ruled (945-967) Northern Syria from Aleppo, and became the most important opponent of the Byzantine Empire's (Christian) expansion. His court was a centre of culture, thanks to its nurturing of Arabic literature, but it lost this status after the Byzantine conquest of Aleppo.

To stop the Byzantine advance, Aleppo was put under the suzerainty of the Fatimids in Egypt, but in 1003 the Fatimids deposed the Hamdanids anyway.

*****RIGHT, TRADITIONALLY NON POLITICAL.

Stop acting like you know what you're talking about, YOU HAVE NO IDEA.
The clerics always wanted power, however they were subdued by the Shah and his father. Islam is a political movement, Shia or Sunni.

Notice Ahmed can't admit he's a Muslim, nor will he admit what the Koran says about Israel. Come on Ahmed, out with it. Ha ha ha.

Hamdun wasn't a member of the Ulama. Try again. Also worth noting, family dynasties are not Ulama ruled states, they are well, family dynasties. It's kind of right there in the name.

Are you operating under the false impression that anybody in The West really gives a rat's ass about dead caliphs and caliphates?

I don't expect anyone to care about them or to share my love of history. I was merely initially pointing out that Roudy's assertion that Iranian style modern political shiism was the historical norm (or even the current norm) was inaccurate. The only historical entity that I referenced prior to this were the Safavids. Roudy and aris brought up all of the others, so perhaps your question would be best directed at them.

who gives a shiite! You claimed that shiite clerics generally stayed out of politics. When proven wrong you then diverted to "well they aren't the same type of Shiites, or they aren't the Ullama".

Irrelevant!

Once again even if you ignore the fact that you had to point to a completely different branch of Islam to support a general point you made about 12er shiism, I also feel inclined to point out that finding one example doesn't support your hypothesis that said methodology was / is the norm. In order for a norm to exist it has to be common

The norm existed and it was common for clerics to rule or to have influence, as I exhibited. Besides, who gives a shiite and what does it matter? Your lack of real knowledge is clearly showing by the ignorant statements you constantly make. Also, which insane person would study about Islam in depth (and from Western sources) and know so little? Man, you are truly pathetic. You just throw out irrelevant, incorrect factoids which have nothing to do with reality.

 

[Roudy]

"Palestine and Jerusalem belong to Muslims"

"If you want it, come and claim it!"

There is nothing sexy or glorious about someone holding a gun, especially a kid like that.

Then you haven't dated Israeli women. They would kick your whiney ass three times over and don't take shit from any man. If you're an insecure man who thinks men have an inherent right to rule over women and abuse them as they do in most of the Muslim world, stay away from Israeli women.

 

[Osomir]

Hamdun wasn't a member of the Ulama. Try again. Also worth noting, family dynasties are not Ulama ruled states, they are well, family dynasties. It's kind of right there in the name.

Are you operating under the false impression that anybody in The West really gives a rat's ass about dead caliphs and caliphates?

I don't expect anyone to care about them or to share my love of history. I was merely initially pointing out that Roudy's assertion that Iranian style modern political shiism was the historical norm (or even the current norm) was inaccurate. The only historical entity that I referenced prior to this were the Safavids. Roudy and aris brought up all of the others, so perhaps your question would be best directed at them.

who gives a shiite! You claimed that shiite clerics generally stayed out of politics. When proven wrong you then diverted to "well they aren't the same type of Shiites, or they aren't the Ullama".

Irrelevant!

Once again even if you ignore the fact that you had to point to a completely different branch of Islam to support a general point you made about 12er shiism, I also feel inclined to point out that finding one example doesn't support your hypothesis that said methodology was / is the norm. In order for a norm to exist it has to be common

The norm existed and it was common for clerics to rule or to have influence, as I exhibited. Besides, who gives a shiite and what does it matter? Your lack of real knowledge is clearly showing by the ignorant statements you constantly make. Also, which insane person would study about Islam in depth (and from Western sources) and know so little? Man, you are truly pathetic. You just throw out irrelevant, incorrect factoids which have nothing to do with reality.

You haven't shown a single case of the ulama ruling outside of Iran.

 

[Osomir]

"Palestine and Jerusalem belong to Muslims"

"If you want it, come and claim it!"

There is nothing sexy or glorious about someone holding a gun, especially a kid like that.

Then you haven't dated Israeli women. They would kick your whiney ass three times over and don't take shit from any man. If you're an insecure man who thinks men have an inherent right to rule over women and abuse them as they do in most of the Muslim world, stay away from Israeli women.

My thesis was on women's rights within developmental economics I work with women empowerment all of the time, from post conflict situations to business development. You're just getting more and more desperate, as I stated before, when you can't support your positions factually you simply result to personal attacks. Pretty typical.

 

[Phoenall]

"Palestine and Jerusalem belong to Muslims"

"If you want it, come and claim it!"

There is nothing sexy or glorious about someone holding a gun, especially a kid like that.

There is nothing sexy about supporting islamonazi terrorism either, yet you do it all the time

 

[Roudy]

"Palestine and Jerusalem belong to Muslims"

"If you want it, come and claim it!"

There is nothing sexy or glorious about someone holding a gun, especially a kid like that.

Then you haven't dated Israeli women. They would kick your whiney ass three times over and don't take shit from any man. If you're an insecure man who thinks men have an inherent right to rule over women and abuse them as they do in most of the Muslim world, stay away from Israeli women.

My thesis was on women's rights within developmental economics I work with women empowerment all of the time, from post conflict situations to business development. You're just getting more and more desperate, as I stated before, when you can't support your positions factually you simply result to personal attacks. Pretty typical.

Sounds like your thesis was in making diversionary, irrelevant and false comments because nothing you just said negates what I stated about Israeli women. Anybody who knows Israelis and Israeli women will confirm. Again, I speak from real life experience from living in Israel for two years, having visited it at least 9 times, and dated Israeli women both in Israeli and the U.S., and you speak out of Uranus. That woman is not a kid either, she is of military service age, which would be the same as it is in the US.

Nor does your thesis answer why someone like you would bother to learn so many outdated factoids about Islam.

You must be a Turk. Ha ha ha.

 

[Phoenall]

"Palestine and Jerusalem belong to Muslims"

"If you want it, come and claim it!"

There is nothing sexy or glorious about someone holding a gun, especially a kid like that.

Too vague?

"If you want him, come and claim him!" - "Lord of the Rings"

Haha fair enough, But I'm sure I don't have to tell you that there is a big difference between fantasy violence and real life conflict. Easy to cheer when an orc gets beheaded, but watching people cheer while humans butcher each other is tragic. I have seen the bodies of those hacked to death by machetes. It looks a lot different than Peter Jackson imagined it. I never link the two as I tend to find it dehumanizing and a downplaying of the seriousness of the issue.

Sure, but a lot of movies, especially in the fantasy and sci-fi genres are symbolic for real world things. If said in a real-world sorta movie, the intent would be clear and upset people, so writers often use make-believe genres to say what they wanna say without offending people. "Star Wars" was a Greek mythical story for example following identical themes the Greeks used with heros, monsters, etc. "The Matrix" was a Jewish metaphor through and through.

Star Wars sources and analogues - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

"Star Wars, the popular space opera saga, and cultural touchstone, is acknowledged to have been inspired by many sources. These include Hinduism, Qigong, Greek philosophy, Greek mythology, Roman history, Roman mythology, parts of the Abrahamic religions, Confucianism, Shintō, and Taoism, not to mention countless cinematic precursors."

Beyond the Matrix

"The Matrix is a powerful metaphor expressing some of Judaism's most fundamental beliefs."

While Tolkien denies LOtR was a metaphor (for WWII) that doesn't mean I can't make it one.

Tolkiens Lord of the Rings was a metaphor for islam if you read the many biographies written. Quite a lot of fantasy writers draw on islam for inspiration for the bad guys, take Goodkind and his Sword of Truth books that casts the muslims as the bad guys that mass murder, rape and pillage and collect cannon fodder as they progress to take over the world.

 

[Osomir]

"Palestine and Jerusalem belong to Muslims"

"If you want it, come and claim it!"

There is nothing sexy or glorious about someone holding a gun, especially a kid like that.

Then you haven't dated Israeli women. They would kick your whiney ass three times over and don't take shit from any man. If you're an insecure man who thinks men have an inherent right to rule over women and abuse them as they do in most of the Muslim world, stay away from Israeli women.

My thesis was on women's rights within developmental economics I work with women empowerment all of the time, from post conflict situations to business development. You're just getting more and more desperate, as I stated before, when you can't support your positions factually you simply result to personal attacks. Pretty typical.

Sounds like your thesis was in making diversionary, irrelevant and false comments because nothing you just said negates what I stated about Israeli women. Anybody who knows Israelis and Israeli women will confirm. Again, I speak from real life experience from living in Israel for two years, having visited it at least 9 times, and dated Israeli women both in Israeli and the U.S., and you speak out of Uranus. That woman is not a kid either, she is of military service age, which would be the same as it is in the US.

Nor does your thesis answer why someone like you would bother to learn so many outdated factoids about Islam.

You must be a Turk. Ha ha ha.

She is a child, with a gun. I have seen many like her in Sierra Leone, Liberia, the DRC, Uganda, and the Sudan. There is nothing sexy about conflict.The fact that we glorify it is childish and revolting.

I know about Islam because I specialize in conflict and terrorism, and post conflict development and I specialize in sub-Saharan Africa and have a love of history. I know because I care, because I have witnessed it, and because it allows me to be better at my job.

 

[Lipush]

A child?

an 18 year old is not a child.

 

[Osomir]

A child?

an 18 year old is not a child.

Yes they are.

 

[Roudy]

Are you operating under the false impression that anybody in The West really gives a rat's ass about dead caliphs and caliphates?

I don't expect anyone to care about them or to share my love of history. I was merely initially pointing out that Roudy's assertion that Iranian style modern political shiism was the historical norm (or even the current norm) was inaccurate. The only historical entity that I referenced prior to this were the Safavids. Roudy and aris brought up all of the others, so perhaps your question would be best directed at them.

who gives a shiite! You claimed that shiite clerics generally stayed out of politics. When proven wrong you then diverted to "well they aren't the same type of Shiites, or they aren't the Ullama".

Irrelevant!

Once again even if you ignore the fact that you had to point to a completely different branch of Islam to support a general point you made about 12er shiism, I also feel inclined to point out that finding one example doesn't support your hypothesis that said methodology was / is the norm. In order for a norm to exist it has to be common

The norm existed and it was common for clerics to rule or to have influence, as I exhibited. Besides, who gives a shiite and what does it matter? Your lack of real knowledge is clearly showing by the ignorant statements you constantly make. Also, which insane person would study about Islam in depth (and from Western sources) and know so little? Man, you are truly pathetic. You just throw out irrelevant, incorrect factoids which have nothing to do with reality.

You haven't shown a single case of the ulama ruling outside of Iran.

This is where you are caught lying. We were never discussing "the Ullama" you simply claimed that it was not common in Shia history for clerics or religious leaders to become involved in politics. That has been proven utterly false. Prior to that you were whining that there is no way Khomeini could be referred to as Islam, and I also proved that one to be false a as we. You diverted and the Ullama after I proved that your statement about clerics running Shia countries turned out to be false.

So like I said, you have no real knowledge, just empty factoids and lies. Here is your claim on post #57 of this thread:

"Iran's council is by far one of the weakest Shia theological institutions in the world. Shia centers of theology tend to surround Qom and Najaf. Historically speaking and theologically speaking, Iran's political shia model goes against classical Shia Islam and is a relatively new expression on the faith."

Utterly false and incorrect, historically, factually, and currently. Now run along before I make you eat your own words. Ha ha ha.

 

[Roudy]

A child?

an 18 year old is not a child.

Yes they are.

Another ignorant statement. Then all miltaries in the world are using children.

 

[Osomir]

I don't expect anyone to care about them or to share my love of history. I was merely initially pointing out that Roudy's assertion that Iranian style modern political shiism was the historical norm (or even the current norm) was inaccurate. The only historical entity that I referenced prior to this were the Safavids. Roudy and aris brought up all of the others, so perhaps your question would be best directed at them.

who gives a shiite! You claimed that shiite clerics generally stayed out of politics. When proven wrong you then diverted to "well they aren't the same type of Shiites, or they aren't the Ullama".

Irrelevant!

Once again even if you ignore the fact that you had to point to a completely different branch of Islam to support a general point you made about 12er shiism, I also feel inclined to point out that finding one example doesn't support your hypothesis that said methodology was / is the norm. In order for a norm to exist it has to be common

The norm existed and it was common for clerics to rule or to have influence, as I exhibited. Besides, who gives a shiite and what does it matter? Your lack of real knowledge is clearly showing by the ignorant statements you constantly make. Also, which insane person would study about Islam in depth (and from Western sources) and know so little? Man, you are truly pathetic. You just throw out irrelevant, incorrect factoids which have nothing to do with reality.

You haven't shown a single case of the ulama ruling outside of Iran.

This is where you are caught lying. We were never discussing "the Ullama" you simply claimed that it was not common in Shia history for clerics or religious leaders to become involved in politics. That has been proven utterly false. Prior to that you were whining that there is no way Khomeini could be referred to as Islam, and I also proved that one to be false a as we. You diverted and the Ullama after I proved that your statement about clerics running Shia countries turned out to be false.

So like I said, you have no real knowledge, just empty factoids and lies. Here is your claim on post #57 of this thread:

"Iran's council is by far one of the weakest Shia theological institutions in the world. Shia centers of theology tend to surround Qom and Najaf. Historically speaking and theologically speaking, Iran's political shia model goes against classical Shia Islam and is a relatively new expression on the faith."

Utterly false and incorrect, historically, factually, and currently. Now run along before I make you eat your own words. Ha ha ha.

So show me a single example of Iran's political style model in the history of 12er Shiism then.

 

[Osomir]

A child?

an 18 year old is not a child.

Yes they are.

Then all miltaries in the world are using children.

I would agree.

 

[Roudy]

"Palestine and Jerusalem belong to Muslims"

"If you want it, come and claim it!"

There is nothing sexy or glorious about someone holding a gun, especially a kid like that.

Then you haven't dated Israeli women. They would kick your whiney ass three times over and don't take shit from any man. If you're an insecure man who thinks men have an inherent right to rule over women and abuse them as they do in most of the Muslim world, stay away from Israeli women.

My thesis was on women's rights within developmental economics I work with women empowerment all of the time, from post conflict situations to business development. You're just getting more and more desperate, as I stated before, when you can't support your positions factually you simply result to personal attacks. Pretty typical.

Sounds like your thesis was in making diversionary, irrelevant and false comments because nothing you just said negates what I stated about Israeli women. Anybody who knows Israelis and Israeli women will confirm. Again, I speak from real life experience from living in Israel for two years, having visited it at least 9 times, and dated Israeli women both in Israeli and the U.S., and you speak out of Uranus. That woman is not a kid either, she is of military service age, which would be the same as it is in the US.

Nor does your thesis answer why someone like you would bother to learn so many outdated factoids about Islam.

You must be a Turk. Ha ha ha.

She is a child, with a gun. I have seen many like her in Sierra Leone, Liberia, the DRC, Uganda, and the Sudan. There is nothing sexy about conflict.The fact that we glorify it is childish and revolting.

I know about Islam because I specialize in conflict and terrorism, and post conflict development and I specialize in sub-Saharan Africa and have a love of history. I know because I care, because I have witnessed it, and because it allows me to be better at my job.

According to US law an 18 year old is considered a total adult. Stop talking out of your anus.

 

[Osomir]

There is nothing sexy or glorious about someone holding a gun, especially a kid like that.

Then you haven't dated Israeli women. They would kick your whiney ass three times over and don't take shit from any man. If you're an insecure man who thinks men have an inherent right to rule over women and abuse them as they do in most of the Muslim world, stay away from Israeli women.

My thesis was on women's rights within developmental economics I work with women empowerment all of the time, from post conflict situations to business development. You're just getting more and more desperate, as I stated before, when you can't support your positions factually you simply result to personal attacks. Pretty typical.

Sounds like your thesis was in making diversionary, irrelevant and false comments because nothing you just said negates what I stated about Israeli women. Anybody who knows Israelis and Israeli women will confirm. Again, I speak from real life experience from living in Israel for two years, having visited it at least 9 times, and dated Israeli women both in Israeli and the U.S., and you speak out of Uranus. That woman is not a kid either, she is of military service age, which would be the same as it is in the US.

Nor does your thesis answer why someone like you would bother to learn so many outdated factoids about Islam.

You must be a Turk. Ha ha ha.

She is a child, with a gun. I have seen many like her in Sierra Leone, Liberia, the DRC, Uganda, and the Sudan. There is nothing sexy about conflict.The fact that we glorify it is childish and revolting.

I know about Islam because I specialize in conflict and terrorism, and post conflict development and I specialize in sub-Saharan Africa and have a love of history. I know because I care, because I have witnessed it, and because it allows me to be better at my job.

According to US law an 18 year old is considered a total adult. Stop talking out of your anus.

You've never been a parent have you? You've never seen conflict either.

 

[Roudy]

who gives a shiite! You claimed that shiite clerics generally stayed out of politics. When proven wrong you then diverted to "well they aren't the same type of Shiites, or they aren't the Ullama".

Irrelevant!

Once again even if you ignore the fact that you had to point to a completely different branch of Islam to support a general point you made about 12er shiism, I also feel inclined to point out that finding one example doesn't support your hypothesis that said methodology was / is the norm. In order for a norm to exist it has to be common

The norm existed and it was common for clerics to rule or to have influence, as I exhibited. Besides, who gives a shiite and what does it matter? Your lack of real knowledge is clearly showing by the ignorant statements you constantly make. Also, which insane person would study about Islam in depth (and from Western sources) and know so little? Man, you are truly pathetic. You just throw out irrelevant, incorrect factoids which have nothing to do with reality.

You haven't shown a single case of the ulama ruling outside of Iran.

This is where you are caught lying. We were never discussing "the Ullama" you simply claimed that it was not common in Shia history for clerics or religious leaders to become involved in politics. That has been proven utterly false. Prior to that you were whining that there is no way Khomeini could be referred to as Islam, and I also proved that one to be false a as we. You diverted and the Ullama after I proved that your statement about clerics running Shia countries turned out to be false.

So like I said, you have no real knowledge, just empty factoids and lies. Here is your claim on post #57 of this thread:

"Iran's council is by far one of the weakest Shia theological institutions in the world. Shia centers of theology tend to surround Qom and Najaf. Historically speaking and theologically speaking, Iran's political shia model goes against classical Shia Islam and is a relatively new expression on the faith."

Utterly false and incorrect, historically, factually, and currently. Now run along before I make you eat your own words. Ha ha ha.

So show me a single example of Iran's political style model in the history of 12er Shiism then.

12er Shiism? You diverted to that and "the Ullama" after I proved how wrong you were. You could have not been more wrong. Quit while you're ahead so you can come back and bullshit another day.

 

[Lipush]

A child?

an 18 year old is not a child.

Yes they are.

No they're not. Drafting age at 18 is perfectly fine. and legal