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Oxford Supt Letter Re: Counselor's Decision

SweetSue92

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As a public school teacher, I'm sick about this. People think these decisions are easy, black and white. They are not. I know the counselor(s) who made the decision to return Ethan Crumbley to class are probably sick with remorse. On top of their own regret, many in the community are calling for lawsuits and recriminations.

But the facts are:

1. Ethan Crumbley lied and said the pictures were of video games. Many, many, MANY kids are obsessed with video games and I have seen many kids draw pictures of video games over my career.

2. The counselors talked to Ethan and he seemed calm. He wanted to go back to class and was concerned about his homework. He did not display what they thought were homicidal or suicidal tendencies.

3. They spoke to the parents--who KNEW he has access to a gun and said nothing--and the parents REFUSED to take him home. Counselors made clear: he needs outside counseling within 48 hours or we call CPS

4. After the parents left, their choices were:

--Send Ethan back to class, which he was asking for (remember they had no way of knowing he had a gun)
--Get the cops involved to force the parents to pick him up somehow or
--Keep him in the office until the end of the day

Undoubtedly, that last step was the mistake. But I would call it a mistake given the circumstances, not "criminal negligence" or anything like willful harm. And I would add if people want repercussions--those repercussions will take us back to Zero Tolerance. That means if your kid, at any age, draws a picture of a weapon of any kind, or chews this pop tart in the shape of a gun (remember that?) it's an automatic suspension. Then we know we catch every single Ethan Crumbley, true. But, we catch a lot of kids who are really drawing pictures of video games, too.

Pick one.

Here's the excerpt from the letter:

On Nov. 29, the suspect was discovered by a teacher to be viewing images of bullets on his cell phone during class. The suspect met with a counselor and another staff member and indicated he and his mother recently went to the shooting range and that shooting sports are a family hobby. Consistent with our school policies and procedures, the school attempted to make contact with the student’s mother to discuss the incident but did not initially hear back. The next day, his parents confirmed his account.

On the morning of Nov. 30, a teacher observed concerning drawings and written statements that have been detailed in media reports, which the teacher reported to school counselors and the Dean of students. The student was immediately removed from the classroom and brought to the guidance counselor’s office where he claimed the drawing was part of a video game he was designing and informed counselors that he planned to pursue video game design as a career. The student’s parents were also called in. Because it was difficult to reach the parents, the student remained in the office for an hour and a half while counselors continued to observe, analyze and speak with the student. While waiting for his parents to arrive, the student verbalized his concern he would be missing homework assignments and requested his science homework, which he then worked on while in the office. At no time did counselors believe the student might harm others based on his behavior, responses and demeanor, which appeared calm. In addition, despite media reports, whether or not the gun was in his backpack has not been confirmed by law enforcement to our knowledge nor by our investigation at this time. While both of his parents were present, counselors asked specific probing questions regarding the potential for self-harm or harm to others. His answers, which were affirmed by his parents during the interview, led counselors to again conclude he did not intend on committing either self-harm or harm to others. The student’s parents never advised the school district that he had direct access to a firearm or that they had recently purchased a firearm for him. Counseling was recommended for him, and his parents were notified that they had 48 hours to seek counseling for their child or the school would contact Child Protective Services.

When the parents were asked to take their son home for the day, they flatly refused and left without their son, apparently to return to work. Given the fact that the child had no prior disciplinary infractions, the decision was made he would be returned to the classroom rather than sent home to an empty house. These incidents remained at the guidance counselor level and were never elevated to the principal or assistant principal’s office. While we understand this decision has caused anger, confusion and prompted understandable questioning ,the counselors made a judgment based on their professional training and clinical experience and did not have all the facts we now know. Our counselors are deeply committed longstanding school members who have dedicated their lives to supporting students and addressing student mental health and behavioral issues

 

XponentialChaos

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Wow. I actually agree with you for once.
 

fncceo

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We still haven't quite mastered pre-crime technology yet...

mrjpg.jpeg
 

JoeB131

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As a public school teacher, I'm sick about this. People think these decisions are easy, black and white. They are not. I know the counselor(s) who made the decision to return Ethan Crumbley to class are probably sick with remorse. On top of their own regret, many in the community are calling for lawsuits and recriminations.

But the facts are:

1. Ethan Crumbley lied and said the pictures were of video games. Many, many, MANY kids are obsessed with video games and I have seen many kids draw pictures of video games over my career.

2. The counselors talked to Ethan and he seemed calm. He wanted to go back to class and was concerned about his homework. He did not display what they thought were homicidal or suicidal tendencies.

3. They spoke to the parents--who KNEW he has access to a gun and said nothing--and the parents REFUSED to take him home. Counselors made clear: he needs outside counseling within 48 hours or we call CPS

4. After the parents left, their choices were:

--Send Ethan back to class, which he was asking for (remember they had no way of knowing he had a gun)
--Get the cops involved to force the parents to pick him up somehow or
--Keep him in the office until the end of the day

Undoubtedly, that last step was the mistake. But I would call it a mistake given the circumstances, not "criminal negligence" or anything like willful harm. And I would add if people want repercussions--those repercussions will take us back to Zero Tolerance. That means if your kid, at any age, draws a picture of a weapon of any kind, or chews this pop tart in the shape of a gun (remember that?) it's an automatic suspension. Then we know we catch every single Ethan Crumbley, true. But, we catch a lot of kids who are really drawing pictures of video games, too.

Pick one.

Here's the excerpt from the letter:

On Nov. 29, the suspect was discovered by a teacher to be viewing images of bullets on his cell phone during class. The suspect met with a counselor and another staff member and indicated he and his mother recently went to the shooting range and that shooting sports are a family hobby. Consistent with our school policies and procedures, the school attempted to make contact with the student’s mother to discuss the incident but did not initially hear back. The next day, his parents confirmed his account.

On the morning of Nov. 30, a teacher observed concerning drawings and written statements that have been detailed in media reports, which the teacher reported to school counselors and the Dean of students. The student was immediately removed from the classroom and brought to the guidance counselor’s office where he claimed the drawing was part of a video game he was designing and informed counselors that he planned to pursue video game design as a career. The student’s parents were also called in. Because it was difficult to reach the parents, the student remained in the office for an hour and a half while counselors continued to observe, analyze and speak with the student. While waiting for his parents to arrive, the student verbalized his concern he would be missing homework assignments and requested his science homework, which he then worked on while in the office. At no time did counselors believe the student might harm others based on his behavior, responses and demeanor, which appeared calm. In addition, despite media reports, whether or not the gun was in his backpack has not been confirmed by law enforcement to our knowledge nor by our investigation at this time. While both of his parents were present, counselors asked specific probing questions regarding the potential for self-harm or harm to others. His answers, which were affirmed by his parents during the interview, led counselors to again conclude he did not intend on committing either self-harm or harm to others. The student’s parents never advised the school district that he had direct access to a firearm or that they had recently purchased a firearm for him. Counseling was recommended for him, and his parents were notified that they had 48 hours to seek counseling for their child or the school would contact Child Protective Services.


When the parents were asked to take their son home for the day, they flatly refused and left without their son, apparently to return to work. Given the fact that the child had no prior disciplinary infractions, the decision was made he would be returned to the classroom rather than sent home to an empty house. These incidents remained at the guidance counselor level and were never elevated to the principal or assistant principal’s office. While we understand this decision has caused anger, confusion and prompted understandable questioning ,the counselors made a judgment based on their professional training and clinical experience and did not have all the facts we now know. Our counselors are deeply committed longstanding school members who have dedicated their lives to supporting students and addressing student mental health and behavioral issues


Sounds like a lot of excuses to excuse incompetence, Islamophobic Twat.

If Ethan had been named Jamal, the cops would have been called that day.
If he had been named Mohammed, they'd have shipped his ass off to Gitmo.

But since he was a white kid with a white bread name like "Ethan", well, just send the little scamp back to class!
 

Unkotare

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Sounds like a lot of excuses to excuse incompetence, Islamophobic Twat.

If Ethan had been named Jamal, the cops would have been called that day.
If he had been named Mohammed, they'd have shipped his ass off to Gitmo.

But since he was a white kid with a white bread name like "Ethan", well, just send the little scamp back to class!

Go troll somewhere else, clown.
 

strollingbones

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now we are asking teachers to be mental health workers? Remember the school nurse? where did she/he go? the parents are responsible here, simple as that. they gave him the gun and should have know where the gun was. I used trigger locks on my guns where i had a kid in the house.
hindsight is 20/20 and it easy to forget the other side of the story.

suing the school system is liken to suing the police and city...very expensive for both systems and it gets passed to the tax payers
 

JoeB131

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Go troll somewhere else, clown.

Yes, dripping Poop, no one dare criticize the ineptitude of Public Education.

The biggest result of Covid... Parents finally got on to some of the ship you all were up to.
 

Unkotare

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Yes, dripping Poop, no one dare criticize the ineptitude of Public Education.

The biggest result of Covid... Parents finally got on to some of the ship you all were up to.
You really seem to like talking about things you know absolutely nothing about.
 

JoeB131

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You really seem to like talking about things you know absolutely nothing about.

School Administrators knew this kid was seriously messed up, sent him back to his classroom with a gun and he proceeded to gun down some of his classmates....

What part of that doesn't fall under EPIC FAIL?
 

B. Kidd

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Teachers decided that he had a backpack, so let's not check it before sending him back to class, because school shootings only happen in other places, but not here.
They should be sued for everything they are not really worth 6 ways to Sunday for not having one iota of common sense amongst them!
 

Mac-7

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School Administrators knew this kid was seriously messed up, sent him back to his classroom with a gun
Thats a half truth and a half lie

The school did not know he had a gun
 

Mac-7

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They also didn't search his backpack after he engaged in some seriously deranged behavior.
I cant argue with that

Other than the part about being seriously deranged

All he did that the school was aware of was look up ammunition online while at school
 

JoeB131

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I cant argue with that

Other than the part about being seriously deranged

All he did that the school was aware of was look up ammunition online while at school

And drew some very disturbing pictures of murdering people.

His behavior was bad enough they called down his parents to take him home.
 

Mac-7

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And drew some very disturbing pictures of murdering people.

His behavior was bad enough they called down his parents to take him home.
Obviously the teachers were indecisive

I think thats caused by decades of attack by the ACLU and ambulance chasing lawyers along with bad court decisions that have undermined the authority of the teachers

In the end they chose to to nothing when 40 years ago they would have been more assertive

I dont know what crumby’s home environment was like

Maybe God was missing from his upbringing

Being a child from a broken home he seems to have been heavily influenced by the toxic lib culture of violence and kinky sex in popular media

For the teachers on that day it was a judgement call and they took the path of least resistance
 

JoeB131

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Obviously the teachers were indecisive

I think thats caused by decades of attack by the ACLU and ambulance chasing lawyers along with bad court decisions that have undermined the authority of the teachers

In the end they chose to to nothing when 40 years ago they would have been more assertive

Oh, bullshit.

The real problem is that the schools only get assertive for a few weeks after a school shooting, then they get lax...

I dont know what crumby’s home environment was like

Maybe God was missing from his upbringing

Being a child from a broken home he seems to have been heavily influenced by the toxic lib culture of violence and kinky sex in popular media

For the teachers on that day it was a judgement call and they took the path of least resistance

HIs parents were gun nuts... he's completely one of yours.

Don't try passing this off as anything else.
 

struth

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Sounds like a lot of excuses to excuse incompetence, Islamophobic Twat.

If Ethan had been named Jamal, the cops would have been called that day.
If he had been named Mohammed, they'd have shipped his ass off to Gitmo.

But since he was a white kid with a white bread name like "Ethan", well, just send the little scamp back to class!
if the demafascist hadn’t defunded the police the police would have been there

we still have school resource officers here…sadly in places like detroit, where the demafascict run the place, the police have been cut out…because public safely, children safety isn’t important…pandering for votes is more important
 

struth

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Oh, bullshit.

The real problem is that the schools only get assertive for a few weeks after a school shooting, then they get lax...



HIs parents were gun nuts... he's completely one of yours.

Don't try passing this off as anything else.
speaking of gun nuts, how’s Alec Baldwin?
 

JoeB131

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if the demafascist hadn’t defunded the police the police would have been there

we still have school resource officers here…sadly in places like detroit, where the demafascict run the place, the police have been cut out…because public safely, children safety isn’t important…pandering for votes is more important

They didn't have to call the police. Just send the little bastard home and tell his parents he doesn't get to come back until they've gotten him counselling.

They had School Resource officers at Columbine, Stoneman, VA Tech and a lot of other places that have had school shootings. The idea that the mere presense of a police department's low-performers being assigned to a school is going to actually deter a school shooter is silly.
 

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