Opera yanked out of Fear of Muslims...

[theHawk]

BERLIN, Germany (AP) -- A leading opera house called off a production of Mozart's "Idomeneo" that features the severed head of the Prophet Mohammed, setting off a furious debate Tuesday over Islam, freedom of speech and the role of art.

The furor is the latest in Europe over religious sensitivities -- following cartoons of the prophet first published in a Danish newspaper and recent remarks by Pope Benedict XVI decrying holy war.

Kirsten Harms, director of Berlin's Deutsche Oper, announced "with great regret" that she had decided to cancel the three year old production after state security officials warned it could provoke dangerous reactions in the current politically charged climate.

After its premiere in 2003, the production by Hans Neuenfels drew widespread criticism over a scene in which King Idomeneo presents the severed heads not only of the Greek god of the sea, Poseidon, but also of Mohammed, Jesus and Buddha.
The severed heads are an addition by director Neuenfels to the 225-year-old opera, which was last performed by the company in March 2004.

Harms defended her decision, which she described as "weighing artistic freedom and freedom of a theater ... against the question of security for people's lives."

But the move immediately provoked strong reactions across Germany.

Outraged politicians called the decision to pull the production "crazy" and "a fatal signal" of caving into extremism. Response from Germany's Islamic community was mixed, with some praising the decision and others calling on Muslims to accept the role of provocation in art.

The leader of Germany's Islamic Council welcomed the move, saying a depiction of Mohammed with a severed head "could certainly offend Muslims."

more ...
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/09/27/berlin.opera.ap/index.html

They're perfectly willing to show a beheaded Jesus and Buddha, but not of Muhammed. These sniviling liberals are such cowards.

 

[dmp]

more ...
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/09/27/berlin.opera.ap/index.html

They're perfectly willing to show a beheaded Jesus and Buddha, but not of Muhammed. These sniviling liberals are such cowards.

It's because Christians and Buddhists won't RIOT in the streets, destroy cities, KILL People...why? Because THEY are the religions of PEACE. Islam is a faith based in violence and death to non-believers.

 

[padisha emperor]

It's because Christians and Buddhists won't RIOT in the streets, destroy cities, KILL People...why? Because THEY are the religions of PEACE. Islam is a faith based in violence and death to non-believers.

I'm not muslim, I have, like the most part of the European and the French (Eldest daughter of Church), a christian culture (even if i'm personnally agnostic), so don't misunderstand my words, this is not an attack against Christianism.


Christianity is a peacefull religion ? Yes. But Islam too.
Islam knows several troubles. But Islam is not the religion you can see during the tragic events of these last years. This is not Islam, this is the fundamentalist interpretation of Islam. The islamists are not muslim, they're extremists. The real Islam is a quite peacefull religion. It respect the Christians and Jews. Look at the Q'ran, it is mentionned that a Muslim HAS TO respect the "People of the book", i.e the Bible : Christians and Jews. IN Bagdad, in the Middle age, lots of Christians and Jews were living side by side with the muslims. Some texts of this period shows that some Muslims were buying wine to the Christians, etc...
Abraham and Jesus are for Islam prophets, like Muhamad. The difference for Muhamad (Mahomet) is that he's the last prophet, after him God won't speak to a Man. It's why he is for Islam the most important. But the simple fact that muslims recognize Abraham and Jesus as prophets shows that Allah is the same god than Yaveh or God. Same God, same prophets.
the opposition between Christians and Muslims have political origins : Extension of the muslim territories during the VII-VIIIth c..........Then, struggle between the two "civilisations".
Same for the Jews : political origins (same Land for Jews and for some Muslims, the palestinians).
Because before these troubles inter-religions, the Q'ran said that Islam respect Christians and Jews...
The great rector of the Mosquee of Damas (Syria) said, about the kamikaze attempts in Palestine, that the belief "kill a Jew or a Christian, you'll go to paradize with 50 virgins" is wrong : if you kill a Jew or a Christian, you go NOT AT ALL on Allah's side, you'll be damned for eternity. I think that this man is quite competent in the domain of muslim theology....



And : you can't say that a religion is a violent religion only because some fundamentalists show a big violence :

Christianism knew a lot of violence times : only for the ones concerning France : Crusades (killing in the name of God), crusade against the Albigeois (beginning of the XIIIth, with Simon de Montfort (who said the famous "Kill them all, God will recognize His", in 1213 in Murat), , the persecutions against the Jews, the heretics, the Inquisition...The Wars of Religion (1562-1598), a real civil war BETWEEN CHRISTIANS in France, with the extremists "Ligue" and the family de Guise, the insurrection of the Vendée in 1793 and the murder of the republicans in the name of God....

These are just examples, and only in France (os imagine at the sall of the planet). Only to show that during several centuries, the most violent religion on earth was Christianism. Now, it is the fundamentalist Islam. but twio things :

- here again, the Islam of the terrorists or extremists is not the real Islam.
- You can't say that Islam is a violent religion for tragic events and facts, because if you say that, then Christianism can receive the same qualification.

These 2 religions are peacefull religion, but the application, the execution of them can know troubles when the priests and imams are radical persons and make false the message of these religions.

 

[CSM]

I'm not muslim, I have, like the most part of the European and the French (Eldest daughter of Church), a christian culture (even if i'm personnally agnostic), so don't misunderstand my words, this is not an attack against Christianism.


Christianity is a peacefull religion ? Yes. But Islam too.
Islam knows several troubles. But Islam is not the religion you can see during the tragic events of these last years. This is not Islam, this is the fundamentalist interpretation of Islam. The islamists are not muslim, they're extremists. The real Islam is a quite peacefull religion. It respect the Christians and Jews. Look at the Q'ran, it is mentionned that a Muslim HAS TO respect the "People of the book", i.e the Bible : Christians and Jews. IN Bagdad, in the Middle age, lots of Christians and Jews were living side by side with the muslims. Some texts of this period shows that some Muslims were buying wine to the Christians, etc...
Abraham and Jesus are for Islam prophets, like Muhamad. The difference for Muhamad (Mahomet) is that he's the last prophet, after him God won't speak to a Man. It's why he is for Islam the most important. But the simple fact that muslims recognize Abraham and Jesus as prophets shows that Allah is the same god than Yaveh or God. Same God, same prophets.
the opposition between Christians and Muslims have political origins : Extension of the muslim territories during the VII-VIIIth c..........Then, struggle between the two "civilisations".
Same for the Jews : political origins (same Land for Jews and for some Muslims, the palestinians).
Because before these troubles inter-religions, the Q'ran said that Islam respect Christians and Jews...
The great rector of the Mosquee of Damas (Syria) said, about the kamikaze attempts in Palestine, that the belief "kill a Jew or a Christian, you'll go to paradize with 50 virgins" is wrong : if you kill a Jew or a Christian, you go NOT AT ALL on Allah's side, you'll be damned for eternity. I think that this man is quite competent in the domain of muslim theology....



And : you can't say that a religion is a violent religion only because some fundamentalists show a big violence :

Christianism knew a lot of violence times : only for the ones concerning France : Crusades (killing in the name of God), crusade against the Albigeois (beginning of the XIIIth, with Simon de Montfort (who said the famous "Kill them all, God will recognize His", in 1213 in Murat), , the persecutions against the Jews, the heretics, the Inquisition...The Wars of Religion (1562-1598), a real civil war BETWEEN CHRISTIANS in France, with the extremists "Ligue" and the family de Guise, the insurrection of the Vendée in 1793 and the murder of the republicans in the name of God....

These are just examples, and only in France (os imagine at the sall of the planet). Only to show that during several centuries, the most violent religion on earth was Christianism. Now, it is the fundamentalist Islam. but twio things :

- here again, the Islam of the terrorists or extremists is not the real Islam.
- You can't say that Islam is a violent religion for tragic events and facts, because if you say that, then Christianism can receive the same qualification.

These 2 religions are peacefull religion, but the application, the execution of them can know troubles when the priests and imams are radical persons and make false the message of these religions.

Islam is indeed a violent religion. This has been argued over and over on this board. Drawing parallels to the Christianity of the 14th century to Islam today is a cop out. Let's draw the parallels between Christianity and Islam TODAY!

 

[padisha emperor]

Islam is indeed a violent religion. This has been argued over and over on this board. Drawing parallels to the Christianity of the 14th century to Islam today is a cop out. Let's draw the parallels between Christianity and Islam TODAY!

Today the Islam you can see on CNN is not the real Islam, it is, as I said, fundamentalist interpretation of the Q'ran.
The most part of the muslims are not terrorists, don't want to kill christians.

The historical parallels between Christianism and Islam was here only to show you that you can't say a religion is violent because some of its believers are violents, because Christianism knew lots ans lots of violence actions. Sometimes, it was even genocides : the crusade in the south of France of the french lords from north of France lead by Simon de Montfort against the Albigeois, the Cathars, was a real genocide (according to the definition of the genocide of the Convention against the genocide (9/12/1948). I did mention several others crimes in my previous post, and this was not an exhaustive list. But is Christianism violent for this ? No. It was just some people, politicians and ecclesiatics, at this time, who make an interpretation of the Bible and the pontifical texts, interpretation allowing such crimes.
It is EXACTLY the same for the islamists now. they are not really muslim, they have a wrong interpretation of the Q'ran.

if Islam is a violent religion, why the Q'ran orders to respect the Jews and the Christians ? Why during several centuries, in a lot of muslim countries, there were no problems with Christians ?

Was Simon de Montfort a good representation of the Christian ? No. Was the inquisition a good representation of Christianism ? No. It was fundamentalist interpretation of the Holy Bible. Did God order to kill the Jews, the heretic, did He order to "Kill them all" ? No at all. but some people did it all the same. And now, everybody agree to say that these things were not the application of christian dogma. So, why can't be able to do a same reflexion for Islam ?
90% of the muslim population has nothing to do with the terrorists. they don't thinik the same about Islam. And they admit that the extremists are bad for Islam because they - the extremists - show a wrong face of Islam.

Islam is not the ennemy. Muslims are not our foes. The ennemies are the terrorists, the extremists. And they are ennemy of the free world, but also ennemy of the Muslims.