Open Minded Agnostic Atheist

[Grumblenuts]

Athiest.

The first thing I will ask god when I see him is which religion was right. I think his answer will be none of them.

In fact this is what god told Joseph Smith in 1800. Told him to start a new one. True story.

The first thing I will ask god when I see him (them) is which religion was right.

.
perhaps, the one prescribed during antiquity for admission to the Everlasting - the triumph of good vs evil - for those that might attempt the challenge. from the beginning.

Perhaps? Do you know or are you guessing?

Perhaps? Do you know or are you guessing?

.
that is built in the physiology ...

View attachment 343880

try transforming from one being to another, bobo - but you never listen at least you are not a desert reject.

the rejects believe - mutation, is that a word in your vocabulary.

Great image. Besides mutation which implies natural selection, it strongly evokes evolution.. at least for me. {turning into a} Insect? Fish? Bird?

 

[Meriweather]

Well I do think that they use religion to control us still so yes, in a way this is still happening. Baptists teach dying is the only solution.

Remember this Arrestive Development song?

Never heard or knew a peep of this song, but then I am far from Baptist, Evangelical, or Pentecostal. Then, this thing about "control". Look more closely. There is a definite difference between leadership and what you are labeling as "control". Your control is nothing more than a person who wants control trying to figure out the way the wind is blowing within a particular group and then leaping in with what these people want to hear anyway. It's not control, it is the group producing a willing, charismatic spokesperson for further control of the group. Groups want affirmation.

And...people leaving the group want affirmation. Isn't that why you choose to toss criticisms of 'control' and 'cherry-picking' into the discussion? People tend to nod in solemn agreement that both merit disapproval.

My point is that so matter which side a person falls on, people choose to leave organized religion for good reasons--or choose to remain within for equally good reasons. And, in both groups there are people there for the wrong reasons as well.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Reading the C.S. Lewis criticism of a non-Christian and non-“religious” spirituality, that “sort of vague belief in a higher power or impersonal ‘force’” (comment #57), and some other comments here as well, reminded me of mythologist and philosopher Joseph Campbell, and his popular slogan: “Follow your bliss.”

Campbell was a pretty smart guy who had studied many religions and argued that the we ought think of belief in “God” or gods not as a way to understand the meaning of life, but more as a way to experience life more deeply. Skipping across epochs and geography and religions, he in the end offered a modern slant on the question, implying that while it was certainly silly to hang around “Waiting for Godot,” it is still possible to find our own bliss. The “way” to that bliss would of course be different for the scholar, the warrior, the artist, the doctor, but it was there waiting for us. This of course seemed predicated on our having more real life choices than many in the world. It also, and here is what bothered me, seemed to leave us without any guides to morality or even “social consolation.”

After all, except for movies and the modern dream machine in all its facets, except for rock concerts and spectator sports, or maybe the low thrills of tribal identity found in politics, where do we find that collective experience of being alive and part of something larger than ourselves? In the real world of today, we see old nationalism dragging us back to a sort of primitive collective consolation, as some find in MAGA, and others find in the progressive pursuit of more and more money. These have become for many a “way” to collective or personal bliss.

Even the transcendental consolation we may experience renewing our peace of mind or recharging our “spirits” when walking in the woods, or working in our gardens, or off on our boat, only make us happy. They don’t give us what C.S. Lewis seems arrogantly to aspire to — “eternal life.”

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Atheism is denying there are any gods

Not always. Look up the definition. Mere lack of belief in gods qualifies.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

If one admits to gods existing then says he is an atheist he is contradicting himself

If one admits to gods POSSIBLY existing, but lacks belief in any gods, that one is an agnostic atheist

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I would rather use the dictionary

Then use it. The definition you posted clearly states, "lack of belief".

 

[sealybobo]

I am totally open to the idea that god is real I just don’t believe any religions are real. I like debating with theists who agree religions are man made up. I agree the universe and this planet are amazing. And it seems like it’s too perfect and there has to be some higher power. But we know so little still. Maybe there are other universes? Maybe there was is or will be life around every star eventually. Maybe not as advance as us but maybe more. And maybe the spirit lives on forever after you die. Just seems like wishful thinking to me. But I hope so. These are unknowable things.

So far I see no evidence of god and I don’t believe one exists. Everything can be explained scientifically. What can’t, may never be known. Those gaps aren’t god.

Seems silly to know that you can’t know. Lol

Looking at the universe, God’s existence is obvious.

Seeing God and His Beauty in Math

Dr. Wilson has been thinking long and hard about how the mathematical structure of the world points towards God's existence and beauty. in this interview, he explains how his understanding of math drives him to worship God more deeply and how math should motivate Christians to care about doing...

www.biola.edu

To you maybe but not obvious to all of us. Keep an open mind please.

 

[sealybobo]

If one admits to gods existing then says he is an atheist he is contradicting himself

If one admits to gods POSSIBLY existing, but lacks belief in any gods, that one is an agnostic atheist

That's what i call myself and why I call myself an agnostic atheist.

# 21 of our Atheist Bible Online explains this

Why there is no god

Responses to common theist arguments

whynogod.wordpress.com

The existence and non-existence of a god are not equally probable outcomes. The majority of things we can possibly imagine do not exist. Thus, belief is not as valid a position as skepticism when dealing with unsupported or unfalsifiable claims. Agnostic atheism is the most rational position.

 

[sealybobo]

I am totally open to the idea that god is real I just don’t believe any religions are real. I like debating with theists who agree religions are man made up. I agree the universe and this planet are amazing. And it seems like it’s too perfect and there has to be some higher power. But we know so little still. Maybe there are other universes? Maybe there was is or will be life around every star eventually. Maybe not as advance as us but maybe more. And maybe the spirit lives on forever after you die. Just seems like wishful thinking to me. But I hope so. These are unknowable things.

So far I see no evidence of god and I don’t believe one exists. Everything can be explained scientifically. What can’t, may never be known. Those gaps aren’t god.

This is one of the best posts on religion I've ever seen!

The big questions: Who am I? Why an I here? How did I get here? Is there more to life than arguing politics at USMB?

I come to usmb because I enjoy it. I haven’t been on as much because I have a boat and it’s summertime. Plus sales are down because of corona so I don’t fuck around during the day like I did when things were good.

I truly love you guys even you conservatives. God bless you if he exists.

I grew up Roman Catholic, but I find I read Chabad almost daily. I appreciate their sense of community, brotherhood and love of fellow man.

Enjoy your journey Sealy, it's yours to discover

My girlfriend calls herself a Scientologist.

Scientology is nothing else than a criminal organisation. Scientology has absolutelly nothing to do with religion. Your girlfriend has a damned dangerous problem now.

When she came from Belarus her new mail order step dad sent her to some classes. She can’t explain the religion to me but whatever she learned in those classes she liked. Of course she’s not a real member like her rich step father. He’s like a level 5. Tom cruise is like a 12. She’s probably level 1

She's not involved enough to be in any danger.

Scientology is a criminal organisation - nothing else.

Her mom is going to take everything this step father has when he dies so they just tell him what he wants to hear. Or, maybe he is going to leave it all to the church??? I could see him pulling that move on them.

Same could be said for a lot of Christian churches in America. It's fleecing and lying to people and telling them god requires 10% of their pay.

 

[sealybobo]

You can't be an agnostic atheist.

Sure you can. Atheism strictly means not accepting a belief in any gods. Agnostic atheism is also not knowing if gods exist or not (which is actually most atheists). Gnostic atheists "know" gods don't exist.

Atheism is denying there are any gods

Christians too are "denying" that there are any gods. Better to say: Christians don't believe in gods or polytheism - we are monotheists, we believe in god.

Agnosticism leaves the possibility of the existence of gods

What's not really correct. Agnosticism is not a belief or a religion or an alternative in such a direction - it is also not a statement of probability; it is a philosophy, which finds out the existence of god is not provable, so no one is able to know whether god exists or not exists.

but will not state there are any gods without more proof or that there are gods but people can never really know them

If one admits to gods existing then says he is an atheist he is contradicting himself

Someone, who follows the philosophy "agnosticism" is able to believe in god or able to believe in atheism. What such a philosopher not is able to believe is "god exists and not exists the same time". The reason is not that god is not able to exist and not to exist the same time - god is allmighty. The reason is that we are not able to think this philosophically, because this is a contradiction. It hurts our rationality to do so.

Good point. Does an agnostic say they have CONCLUDED that god is unknowable or are they undecided?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Does an agnostic say they have CONCLUDED that god is unknowable or are they undecided?

It could be either. Agnosticism simply means, "not knowing".

 

[Thunderbird]

I am totally open to the idea that god is real I just don’t believe any religions are real. I like debating with theists who agree religions are man made up. I agree the universe and this planet are amazing. And it seems like it’s too perfect and there has to be some higher power. But we know so little still. Maybe there are other universes? Maybe there was is or will be life around every star eventually. Maybe not as advance as us but maybe more. And maybe the spirit lives on forever after you die. Just seems like wishful thinking to me. But I hope so. These are unknowable things.

So far I see no evidence of god and I don’t believe one exists. Everything can be explained scientifically. What can’t, may never be known. Those gaps aren’t god.

Seems silly to know that you can’t know. Lol

Looking at the universe, God’s existence is obvious.

Seeing God and His Beauty in Math

Dr. Wilson has been thinking long and hard about how the mathematical structure of the world points towards God's existence and beauty. in this interview, he explains how his understanding of math drives him to worship God more deeply and how math should motivate Christians to care about doing...

www.biola.edu

To you maybe but not obvious to all of us. Keep an open mind please.

Don’t be closed minded regarding your agnosticism. Consider the facts, they may lead you to theism.

Twenty Arguments God's Existence by Peter Kreeft (& Ronald K. Tacelli)

www.peterkreeft.com

What Do "Fine-tuning" and the "Multiverse" Say About God? - BioLogos

Some Christians argue that fine-tuning is proof of God’s existence, while some atheists argue that the multiverse replaces God. Is either side right?

biologos.org

 

[sealybobo]

Does an agnostic say they have CONCLUDED that god is unknowable or are they undecided?

It could be either. Agnosticism simply means, "not knowing".

Theists don't like it when I call myself an agnostic atheist. I do so because

a. I look around and see no evidence of god(s). As far as the gods in the holy books, I'm an atheist. Don't buy it for one second. Willing to bet my soul on it.
b. It's unknowable if God continues to hide. You would have to be a god yourself to know 100% for sure because you'd have to look everywhere not only in this universe but in all the other rhelms such as heaven to see if he's hiding.

So since no one can ever say for sure without further evidence, I'm agnostic but while I'm on the fence I strongly lean towards disbelief.

And that's ok. I don't think a god would care if a cat or you believes in it.

 

[sealybobo]

I am totally open to the idea that god is real I just don’t believe any religions are real. I like debating with theists who agree religions are man made up. I agree the universe and this planet are amazing. And it seems like it’s too perfect and there has to be some higher power. But we know so little still. Maybe there are other universes? Maybe there was is or will be life around every star eventually. Maybe not as advance as us but maybe more. And maybe the spirit lives on forever after you die. Just seems like wishful thinking to me. But I hope so. These are unknowable things.

So far I see no evidence of god and I don’t believe one exists. Everything can be explained scientifically. What can’t, may never be known. Those gaps aren’t god.

Seems silly to know that you can’t know. Lol

Looking at the universe, God’s existence is obvious.

Seeing God and His Beauty in Math

Dr. Wilson has been thinking long and hard about how the mathematical structure of the world points towards God's existence and beauty. in this interview, he explains how his understanding of math drives him to worship God more deeply and how math should motivate Christians to care about doing...

www.biola.edu

To you maybe but not obvious to all of us. Keep an open mind please.

Don’t be closed minded regarding your agnosticism. Consider the facts, they may lead you to theism.

Twenty Arguments God's Existence by Peter Kreeft (& Ronald K. Tacelli)

www.peterkreeft.com

What Do "Fine-tuning" and the "Multiverse" Say About God? - BioLogos

Some Christians argue that fine-tuning is proof of God’s existence, while some atheists argue that the multiverse replaces God. Is either side right?

biologos.org

I doubt it. But I remain open to any new evidence.

Most likely I'll start to believe when I find out I'm terminal but I have told myself not to do that when that day comes. That's just wishful thinking and being scared of death.

 

[Blues Man]

Atheism is denying there are any gods

Not always. Look up the definition. Mere lack of belief in gods qualifies.

Can you really have a lack of belief in something that exists?

Can you have a lack of belief that 2/3 of the earth's surface is covered in water?

Or a lack of belief that the earth has a moon?

 

[Thunderbird]

I am totally open to the idea that god is real I just don’t believe any religions are real. I like debating with theists who agree religions are man made up. I agree the universe and this planet are amazing. And it seems like it’s too perfect and there has to be some higher power. But we know so little still. Maybe there are other universes? Maybe there was is or will be life around every star eventually. Maybe not as advance as us but maybe more. And maybe the spirit lives on forever after you die. Just seems like wishful thinking to me. But I hope so. These are unknowable things.

So far I see no evidence of god and I don’t believe one exists. Everything can be explained scientifically. What can’t, may never be known. Those gaps aren’t god.

Seems silly to know that you can’t know. Lol

Looking at the universe, God’s existence is obvious.

Seeing God and His Beauty in Math

Dr. Wilson has been thinking long and hard about how the mathematical structure of the world points towards God's existence and beauty. in this interview, he explains how his understanding of math drives him to worship God more deeply and how math should motivate Christians to care about doing...

www.biola.edu

To you maybe but not obvious to all of us. Keep an open mind please.

Please don’t be closed minded regarding your agnosticism. Consider the facts, they may lead you to theism.

Twenty Arguments God's Existence by Peter Kreeft (& Ronald K. Tacelli)

www.peterkreeft.com

What Do "Fine-tuning" and the "Multiverse" Say About God? - BioLogos

Some Christians argue that fine-tuning is proof of God’s existence, while some atheists argue that the multiverse replaces God. Is either side right?

biologos.org

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Consider the facts, they may lead you to theism.

Those aren't facts. Those are philosophical arguments. They aren't compelling to evidence-based thinkers to accept such an extraordinary idea.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Can you really have a lack of belief in something that exists?

Agnostic atheists acknowledge the possibility that gods exist, on the basis that they cannot be ruled out. Not that they do exist. Else they would be theists.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Yes, fears and anxieties abound. The list is long. More so when the ride appears to be ending. Thus the potential profit motive remains strong. Best git 'em while they're really young and gullible!

And yes, people lacked belief in a "round" Earth until convinced otherwise by scientific advancement. Many here still strongly lack belief in AGW or convincingly pretend to. Absence of belief is evidence of neither the absence nor presence of god(s).

 

[Thunderbird]

Consider the facts, they may lead you to theism.

Those aren't facts. Those are philosophical arguments. They aren't compelling to evidence-based thinkers to accept such an extraordinary idea.

The arguments are based on facts. If you want to refute said arguments please be specific.