My take on the Wuhan Virus

[White 6]

At

Not deceptive, just not supportive of the premise that the economy should be put back wide open, because the only people dying of it are old people, so it doesn't matter, because the economy should be more important to the the younger people. There appears to be a repeating feeling expressed on the board, that younger people should go about their lives, whether they continue to spread the disease or not, because older people are the ones in danger and that they have little or no value to younger generation.

This is my take on this virus.

Human lives are very valuable, and the duty of a government is to protect them.

However, we are at a point where the government and the people both want a solution "without sacrifices".

And this kind of solution won't be possible.

This situation against the virus has been called "a war", and war causes lots of casualties. So, we must start calling heroes to the dead ones because the virus. And will be more heroes in the future.

One casualty from every 1,000 troops is a very low percent.

But the war is not over yet.

Then, the government and the people must give up their demands and have an agreement where casualties will be accepted without retaliations.

The government allowing the reopening of cities and people returning to their daily life AT THEIR OWN RISK.

If the rate of casualties increases, people won't put the responsibility on the government, and the government won't close back cities as well.

As in any war, it will be lots of casualties and lots of survivors.

You just can have a win win scenario with a pandemic, you must be ready to lose your life so others will have a better life.

But, I know, like me you are here in these forums expecting the government alone to do the job for you, to demand and demand but you are never in the mood to do a sacrifice. Pride consumes you, arrogance guides you, you want everything served in the table. The education given to you has made you a coward.

You just forgot how those real men from the past fought for you to enjoy what you have today. If this pandemic happened 200 years ago, those men, women, elder and even children won't hesitate to suffer and sacrifice even themselves at exchange of giving better future to others.

And with this war against the virus you expect the government to be the only one fighting against it.

You see one death between 1,000 and you cry wolf, hide under the table, tremble like sneak with epilepsy and cry.

Tell the government you will go to work and have your normal life AT YOUR OWN RISK, and you and your family won't demand anything if you die because the virus. Sign your paper enlisting to the war against the virus and be ready to die for or have victory.

Show you are a man.

Hi. Just read your BS post. You can trivialize the disease with your stats, all you want. Here is some trivialization. Since about March 14, New York has had 20,681 people die, 507 died there just yesterday. A month and a half and 20,681 died in that one state. Vast majority of American deaths, 49,845 last I looked (the highest death toll on the entire planet by far) started dying around the same time to about 15 days earlier, so we are looking at around 50,000 in about 2 months. You want to liken it to a war? We lost 211,454 in Vietnam with 1,597 still missing, mostly between 1959 and 1975. We were not losing nearly 50,000 troops in two month periods during that 15 to 16 year war. Between 2003 and 2011 we lost 36,710 in 8 years of that senseless BS in Iraq, and we are way past that in the last two months, losing 2,325 American across the country yesterday. This ain't war. The dying are unarmed civilians, totally without the ability to fight and kill the enemy that is killing them.

Don't tell me about real men fighting for me, a 20 plus year combat arms officer, last serving active duty on G3 staff/ V Corps while 2 conflicts were being managed. I Know a little more about it than you. I have taught more about it than you. Don't preach to me and wag the flag in my face dweeb. I don't know who you served, but I know damn well who I served.

Even at my age I tremble before no man. Anybody fall down dead in front of you and forced you to take direct action to try in vain to save their life in the last month? I looked it in the face, knowing I was taking a chance, but there wasn't anybody else. A little hard to sleep, waking up seeing that face. He was a nice young man, two weeks back from Detroit, visiting his mother.

I'm not going back to work, PERIOD. My dues are paid.

I do not want to see the individual states rush back in, any sooner than the local conditions of the individual states and city's situations warrant, with a modicum of belief that the local epidemic can be reasonably be contained or managed without provoking an early second wave. Pretty sure we will have a second wave in the fall, but apparently can't be helped. People are important to me, probably more so, than to you. Don't bring me any more of your crap tonight, unless you wish to join the dishonorably ignored.

 

[jwoodie]

At

Not deceptive, just not supportive of the premise that the economy should be put back wide open, because the only people dying of it are old people, so it doesn't matter, because the economy should be more important to the the younger people. There appears to be a repeating feeling expressed on the board, that younger people should go about their lives, whether they continue to spread the disease or not, because older people are the ones in danger and that they have little or no value to younger generation.

This is my take on this virus.

Human lives are very valuable, and the duty of a government is to protect them.

However, we are at a point where the government and the people both want a solution "without sacrifices".

And this kind of solution won't be possible.

This situation against the virus has been called "a war", and war causes lots of casualties. So, we must start calling heroes to the dead ones because the virus. And will be more heroes in the future.

One casualty from every 1,000 troops is a very low percent.

But the war is not over yet.

Then, the government and the people must give up their demands and have an agreement where casualties will be accepted without retaliations.

The government allowing the reopening of cities and people returning to their daily life AT THEIR OWN RISK.

If the rate of casualties increases, people won't put the responsibility on the government, and the government won't close back cities as well.

As in any war, it will be lots of casualties and lots of survivors.

You just can have a win win scenario with a pandemic, you must be ready to lose your life so others will have a better life.

But, I know, like me you are here in these forums expecting the government alone to do the job for you, to demand and demand but you are never in the mood to do a sacrifice. Pride consumes you, arrogance guides you, you want everything served in the table. The education given to you has made you a coward.

You just forgot how those real men from the past fought for you to enjoy what you have today. If this pandemic happened 200 years ago, those men, women, elder and even children won't hesitate to suffer and sacrifice even themselves at exchange of giving better future to others.

And with this war against the virus you expect the government to be the only one fighting against it.

You see one death between 1,000 and you cry wolf, hide under the table, tremble like sneak with epilepsy and cry.

Tell the government you will go to work and have your normal life AT YOUR OWN RISK, and you and your family won't demand anything if you die because the virus. Sign your paper enlisting to the war against the virus and be ready to die for or have victory.

Show you are a man.

Hi. Just read your BS post. You can trivialize the disease with your stats, all you want. Here is some trivialization. Since about March 14, New York has had 20,681 people die, 507 died there just yesterday. A month and a half and 20,681 died in that one state. Vast majority of American deaths, 49,845 last I looked (the highest death toll on the entire planet by far) started dying around the same time to about 15 days earlier, so we are looking at around 50,000 in about 2 months. You want to liken it to a war? We lost 211,454 in Vietnam with 1,597 still missing, mostly between 1959 and 1975. We were not losing nearly 50,000 troops in two month periods during that 15 to 16 year war. Between 2003 and 2011 we lost 36,710 in 8 years of that senseless BS in Iraq, and we are way past that in the last two months, losing 2,325 American across the country yesterday. This ain't war. The dying are unarmed civilians, totally without the ability to fight and kill the enemy that is killing them.

Don't tell me about real men fighting for me, a 20 plus year combat arms officer, last serving active duty on G3 staff/ V Corps while 2 conflicts were being managed. I Know a little more about it than you. I have taught more about it than you. Don't preach to me and wag the flag in my face dweeb. I don't know who you served, but I know damn well who I served.

Even at my age I tremble before no man. Anybody fall down dead in front of you and forced you to take direct action to try in vain to save their life in the last month? I looked it in the face, knowing I was taking a chance, but there wasn't anybody else. A little hard to sleep, waking up seeing that face. He was a nice young man, two weeks back from Detroit, visiting his mother.

I'm not going back to work, PERIOD. My dues are paid.

I do not want to see the individual states rush back in, any sooner than the local conditions of the individual states and city's situations warrant, with a modicum of belief that the local epidemic can be reasonably be contained or managed without provoking an early second wave. Pretty sure we will have a second wave in the fall, but apparently can't be helped. People are important to me, probably more so, than to you. Don't bring me any more of your crap tonight, unless you wish to join the dishonorably ignored.

LOL, aren't you sanctimonious.

P.S. How did you come up with: We lost 211,454 in Vietnam? I thought it was 55,000.

 

[beagle9]

Are they even taking workers temps at these facilities,,,,,,....Wasn't impressed with the industry after moving DAD through 3 different ones in five - 6 yrs

That might be part of the problem, where as we have all lived so long in trusting each other, that people are afraid of stigmatizing each other by taking precautions around each other. To answer your question with an opinion, is that I think all businesses should be taking the nessesary steps in keeping their employees, their clients, their patients, and their customers safe. Makes absolutely no sense not to do it now.

 

[beagle9]

At

Not deceptive, just not supportive of the premise that the economy should be put back wide open, because the only people dying of it are old people, so it doesn't matter, because the economy should be more important to the the younger people. There appears to be a repeating feeling expressed on the board, that younger people should go about their lives, whether they continue to spread the disease or not, because older people are the ones in danger and that they have little or no value to younger generation.

This is my take on this virus.

Human lives are very valuable, and the duty of a government is to protect them.

However, we are at a point where the government and the people both want a solution "without sacrifices".

And this kind of solution won't be possible.

This situation against the virus has been called "a war", and war causes lots of casualties. So, we must start calling heroes to the dead ones because the virus. And will be more heroes in the future.

One casualty from every 1,000 troops is a very low percent.

But the war is not over yet.

Then, the government and the people must give up their demands and have an agreement where casualties will be accepted without retaliations.

The government allowing the reopening of cities and people returning to their daily life AT THEIR OWN RISK.

If the rate of casualties increases, people won't put the responsibility on the government, and the government won't close back cities as well.

As in any war, it will be lots of casualties and lots of survivors.

You just can have a win win scenario with a pandemic, you must be ready to lose your life so others will have a better life.

But, I know, like me you are here in these forums expecting the government alone to do the job for you, to demand and demand but you are never in the mood to do a sacrifice. Pride consumes you, arrogance guides you, you want everything served in the table. The education given to you has made you a coward.

You just forgot how those real men from the past fought for you to enjoy what you have today. If this pandemic happened 200 years ago, those men, women, elder and even children won't hesitate to suffer and sacrifice even themselves at exchange of giving better future to others.

And with this war against the virus you expect the government to be the only one fighting against it.

You see one death between 1,000 and you cry wolf, hide under the table, tremble like sneak with epilepsy and cry.

Tell the government you will go to work and have your normal life AT YOUR OWN RISK, and you and your family won't demand anything if you die because the virus. Sign your paper enlisting to the war against the virus and be ready to die for or have victory.

Show you are a man.

Hi. Just read your BS post. You can trivialize the disease with your stats, all you want. Here is some trivialization. Since about March 14, New York has had 20,681 people die, 507 died there just yesterday. A month and a half and 20,681 died in that one state. Vast majority of American deaths, 49,845 last I looked (the highest death toll on the entire planet by far) started dying around the same time to about 15 days earlier, so we are looking at around 50,000 in about 2 months. You want to liken it to a war? We lost 211,454 in Vietnam with 1,597 still missing, mostly between 1959 and 1975. We were not losing nearly 50,000 troops in two month periods during that 15 to 16 year war. Between 2003 and 2011 we lost 36,710 in 8 years of that senseless BS in Iraq, and we are way past that in the last two months, losing 2,325 American across the country yesterday. This ain't war. The dying are unarmed civilians, totally without the ability to fight and kill the enemy that is killing them.

Don't tell me about real men fighting for me, a 20 plus year combat arms officer, last serving active duty on G3 staff/ V Corps while 2 conflicts were being managed. I Know a little more about it than you. I have taught more about it than you. Don't preach to me and wag the flag in my face dweeb. I don't know who you served, but I know damn well who I served.

Even at my age I tremble before no man. Anybody fall down dead in front of you and forced you to take direct action to try in vain to save their life in the last month? I looked it in the face, knowing I was taking a chance, but there wasn't anybody else. A little hard to sleep, waking up seeing that face. He was a nice young man, two weeks back from Detroit, visiting his mother.

I'm not going back to work, PERIOD. My dues are paid.

I do not want to see the individual states rush back in, any sooner than the local conditions of the individual states and city's situations warrant, with a modicum of belief that the local epidemic can be reasonably be contained or managed without provoking an early second wave. Pretty sure we will have a second wave in the fall, but apparently can't be helped. People are important to me, probably more so, than to you. Don't bring me any more of your crap tonight, unless you wish to join the dishonorably ignored.

All that said, but do you realize that the remedies are turning out to be worse than the disease ?? We can do this, and do it right, but we can't live in fear. A whole heaping of common sense is needed now, and a whole lot of respect for one another is also needed. Greed must not over ride safety on the job sites for anyone that is working people. Where greed is, so shall the virus be also. So companies best get with the safety aspect of this thing, and leave no man or woman behind.

 

[Leo123]

I'd be willing to agree with that, but the problem is, there have been several children who have caught the virus and died. The latest one was a 5 year old girl who was the daughter of a firefighter and a police officer.

Then, there was the infant that died.

There have also been many cases requiring hospitalization of people under the age of 30.

I don't know about the 5-year old but the infant was a premie just at the stage where sex can be determined. Both very tragic for sure.

 

[Leo123]

Never said I did. You skipped the Period (,) after the word died. That ended the sentence, in case you fail english.

Well, you fail reading comprehension. I asked what you think, not what you said:

Do you really think 78% of deaths were people under 60 years old, or are you being deliberately deceptive?

As to your being deliberately deceptive, the answer is obvious.

Not deceptive, just not supportive of the premise that the economy should be put back wide open, because the only people dying of it are old people, so it doesn't matter, because the economy should be more important to the the younger people. There appears to be a repeating feeling expressed on the board, that younger people should go about their lives, whether they continue to spread the disease or not, because older people are the ones in danger and that they have little or no value to younger generation.

The Devil's in the details. Older folks with underlying conditions are most in danger not all older folks we are told. Also, this virus seems much more prevalent in highly, dense populations such as NY and NJ. Full disclosure...I am an older person and I am all for opening up the economy. I can see a fast declining benefit for keeping everything closed down, in fact, I believe it is at the point of possibly causing more harm than good. I live in a fairly rural area and there is no one here who has shown symptoms of this virus and there are a lot of retirees here. When I go to our little town, most older folks do not wear masks. Only if they travel to the nearest Metro area (about 30 miles away) do they dawn them. Also, don't forget, we were told by the 'medical experts' that wearing a mask is to protect others not yourself. I think we are losing our common sense with this virus. I do not believe that most younger folks believe their elders have 'no value' either. Most here are respectful. Just my opinion....

 

[Syriusly]

It is a viral contagion that makes about one in 10 people have serious symptoms, one in 100 sick enough to seek medical treatment and one in 1,000 die prematurely. It's principal danger is to older people with preexisting conditions who are susceptible to pneumonia-like infections. The actual threat to the general population is minimal.

Agree/disagree? (Please explain.)

You provided absolutely no references to support your claims. You also claim no subject matter expertise. You also neglected to mention how contagious it is.
So literally no scientific or medical authority agrees with you.

Mortality Analyses - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center

How does mortality differ across countries? Examining the number of deaths per confirmed case and per 100,000 population. A global comparison.

coronavirus.jhu.edu

9 Things Everyone Should Know About the Coronavirus Outbreak

With concerns rising in the U.S. and throughout the world about the global impact of SARS-CoV-2 and COVID-19, we provide the nine things you need to know about the pandemic.

www.yalemedicine.org

CDC report noting that 20% of those who have been hospitalized for the disease in the U.S. are younger adults (between 20 and 44 years old).

The Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) Outbreak in China—Summary of a China CDC Report

This Viewpoint summarizes key epidemiologic and clinical findings from all cases of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) reported through February 11, 2020, in mainland China, and case trends in response to government attempts to control and contain the infection.

jamanetwork.com

Spectrum of disease (N = 44 415)

• Mild: 81% (36 160 cases)
• Severe: 14% (6168 cases)
• Critical: 5% (2087 cases)

The overall case-fatality rate (CFR) was 2.3%

I am not sure why older Americans are not considered to be part of the 'general population' but I think a disease that kills 2.3% of those who get infected is something to take seriously.

 

[Syriusly]

Anecdotes are irrelevant to the OP.

The OP provided nothing more substantial than the anecdotes that have been mentioned. As I noted previously, you failed to provide any evidence to support your claims.
Show us your evidence.

 

[Syriusly]

Never said I did. You skipped the Period (,) after the word died. That ended the sentence, in case you fail english.

Well, you fail reading comprehension. I asked what you think, not what you said:

Do you really think 78% of deaths were people under 60 years old, or are you being deliberately deceptive?

As to your being deliberately deceptive, the answer is obvious.

Wow- considering that you started this thread without any evidence to support your claim- and you then attack people who make their claims as being 'deliberately deceptive'- that is a whole lot of pot calling the kettle black.
So far in this thread I have seen nothing to support the claims in your OP.

 

[Rocko]

It is a viral contagion that makes about one in 10 people have serious symptoms, one in 100 sick enough to seek medical treatment and one in 1,000 die prematurely. It's principal danger is to older people with preexisting conditions who are susceptible to pneumonia-like infections. The actual threat to the general population is minimal.

Agree/disagree? (Please explain.)

How could anyone disagree with all evidence you presented to backup your claims

 

[Syriusly]

At

Not deceptive, just not supportive of the premise that the economy should be put back wide open, because the only people dying of it are old people, so it doesn't matter, because the economy should be more important to the the younger people. There appears to be a repeating feeling expressed on the board, that younger people should go about their lives, whether they continue to spread the disease or not, because older people are the ones in danger and that they have little or no value to younger generation.

This is my take on this virus.

Human lives are very valuable, and the duty of a government is to protect them.

However, we are at a point where the government and the people both want a solution "without sacrifices".

And this kind of solution won't be possible.

This situation against the virus has been called "a war", and war causes lots of casualties. So, we must start calling heroes to the dead ones because the virus. And will be more heroes in the future.

One casualty from every 1,000 troops is a very low percent.

But the war is not over yet.

Then, the government and the people must give up their demands and have an agreement where casualties will be accepted without retaliations.

The government allowing the reopening of cities and people returning to their daily life AT THEIR OWN RISK.

If the rate of casualties increases, people won't put the responsibility on the government, and the government won't close back cities as well.

As in any war, it will be lots of casualties and lots of survivors.

You just can have a win win scenario with a pandemic, you must be ready to lose your life so others will have a better life.

But, I know, like me you are here in these forums expecting the government alone to do the job for you, to demand and demand but you are never in the mood to do a sacrifice. Pride consumes you, arrogance guides you, you want everything served in the table. The education given to you has made you a coward.

You just forgot how those real men from the past fought for you to enjoy what you have today. If this pandemic happened 200 years ago, those men, women, elder and even children won't hesitate to suffer and sacrifice even themselves at exchange of giving better future to others.

And with this war against the virus you expect the government to be the only one fighting against it.

You see one death between 1,000 and you cry wolf, hide under the table, tremble like sneak with epilepsy and cry.

Tell the government you will go to work and have your normal life AT YOUR OWN RISK, and you and your family won't demand anything if you die because the virus. Sign your paper enlisting to the war against the virus and be ready to die for or have victory.

Show you are a man.

Hi. Just read your BS post. You can trivialize the disease with your stats, all you want. Here is some trivialization. Since about March 14, New York has had 20,681 people die, 507 died there just yesterday. A month and a half and 20,681 died in that one state. Vast majority of American deaths, 49,845 last I looked (the highest death toll on the entire planet by far) started dying around the same time to about 15 days earlier, so we are looking at around 50,000 in about 2 months. You want to liken it to a war? We lost 211,454 in Vietnam with 1,597 still missing, mostly between 1959 and 1975. We were not losing nearly 50,000 troops in two month periods during that 15 to 16 year war. Between 2003 and 2011 we lost 36,710 in 8 years of that senseless BS in Iraq, and we are way past that in the last two months, losing 2,325 American across the country yesterday. This ain't war. The dying are unarmed civilians, totally without the ability to fight and kill the enemy that is killing them.

Don't tell me about real men fighting for me, a 20 plus year combat arms officer, last serving active duty on G3 staff/ V Corps while 2 conflicts were being managed. I Know a little more about it than you. I have taught more about it than you. Don't preach to me and wag the flag in my face dweeb. I don't know who you served, but I know damn well who I served.

Even at my age I tremble before no man. Anybody fall down dead in front of you and forced you to take direct action to try in vain to save their life in the last month? I looked it in the face, knowing I was taking a chance, but there wasn't anybody else. A little hard to sleep, waking up seeing that face. He was a nice young man, two weeks back from Detroit, visiting his mother.

I'm not going back to work, PERIOD. My dues are paid.

I do not want to see the individual states rush back in, any sooner than the local conditions of the individual states and city's situations warrant, with a modicum of belief that the local epidemic can be reasonably be contained or managed without provoking an early second wave. Pretty sure we will have a second wave in the fall, but apparently can't be helped. People are important to me, probably more so, than to you. Don't bring me any more of your crap tonight, unless you wish to join the dishonorably ignored.

LOL, aren't you sanctimonious.
.

Again.....pot calling the kettle black.

Where is the evidence to support your OP?

 

[ABikerSailor]

It is a viral contagion that makes about one in 10 people have serious symptoms, one in 100 sick enough to seek medical treatment and one in 1,000 die prematurely. It's principal danger is to older people with preexisting conditions who are susceptible to pneumonia-like infections. The actual threat to the general population is minimal.

Agree/disagree? (Please explain.)

I fail to understand how, after weeks when coronavirus was all the rage, one can so ignorant about it.

About 15% fall seriously ill.

About 10 to 15% seek medical treatment.

About 1 in 100 die. The recent study in New York found a death rate of 0.76%.

Most deaths are in the older cohorts and those - also younger - with preexisting conditions.

The threat to the younger is very real. They die less often, but fall seriously ill at quite a considerable rate, including needing a ventilator. At one point, 40% of those on a ventilator were from the 20 to 45 years old cohort. Also, those younger facing serious illness continue to live with a significantly reduced lung function. Whether that will eventually go away we - obviously - don't know yet.

Well, if you want to know what the percentage of mortality is, just remember the math they taught you in school. Take the death rate and divide it by the number of cases, and that will give you the mortality percentage.

Today, the US had a total of 911K virus cases. The current death toll is 51,516.

Divide 51,516 by 911,000 and you end up with 0.05654, which means the mortality rate is right around 5 1/2 percent.

 

[Rocko]

It is a viral contagion that makes about one in 10 people have serious symptoms, one in 100 sick enough to seek medical treatment and one in 1,000 die prematurely. It's principal danger is to older people with preexisting conditions who are susceptible to pneumonia-like infections. The actual threat to the general population is minimal.

Agree/disagree? (Please explain.)

I fail to understand how, after weeks when coronavirus was all the rage, one can so ignorant about it.

About 15% fall seriously ill.

About 10 to 15% seek medical treatment.

About 1 in 100 die. The recent study in New York found a death rate of 0.76%.

Most deaths are in the older cohorts and those - also younger - with preexisting conditions.

The threat to the younger is very real. They die less often, but fall seriously ill at quite a considerable rate, including needing a ventilator. At one point, 40% of those on a ventilator were from the 20 to 45 years old cohort. Also, those younger facing serious illness continue to live with a significantly reduced lung function. Whether that will eventually go away we - obviously - don't know yet.

Well, if you want to know what the percentage of mortality is, just remember the math they taught you in school. Take the death rate and divide it by the number of cases, and that will give you the mortality percentage.

Today, the US had a total of 911K virus cases. The current death toll is 51,516.

Divide 51,516 by 911,000 and you end up with 0.05654, which means the mortality rate is right around 5 1/2 percent.

The mortality rate has likely peaked and will go down as predicted. The cases are going up and will continue to go up as testing gets better, but we’re seeing a drop in ICU cases. The deaths are the lagging indicator. Models in March predicted the morality rate would peak at 4%, right now its higher, but we’ve tested less than 2% of the population. Fauci estimated that COVID 19 is likely to be about 10x more deadly than the flu, but he was just repeating information from the models which have been consistently wrong, so who knows what the death rate will be once we have a firm idea from collecting much more data. What we do know is even if the mortality rate is maybe lower than we first thought it would be the virus has spread fast enough to kill a lot of people, and it would be worse without the strict social distancing guidelines in place.

 

[Rocko]

You have to look at it like this, up until now we’ve only had the ability to test those that are sick enough. People have been discouraged to get test unless they have a few symptoms. Now we’re starting to test everyone who wants a test in New Jersey and other place. That and the antibodie tests will clear up the data as far as the mortality rate

 

[Manonthestreet]

This Virus Is Tough, but History Provides Perspective: The 1968 Pandemic and the Vietnam War

2020 has been a rough year. 1968 was worse. Granted, as of late April, we are only a third of the way into this tumultuous and frustrating new decade. Unless the United States goes t

www.realcleardefense.com

Lived thru a greater pandemic than this one without even knowing it. Was only 8. Do remember couple bad yrs of flu when the four of us were upstairs in 2 bedrooms. Dont remember Mom and Dad ever being sick despite having to clean up. Third paragraph lays it out and how weak we have become in comparison.

 

[luchitociencia]

Hi. Just read your BS post. You can trivialize the disease with your stats, all you want. Here is some trivialization. Since about March 14, New York has had 20,681 people die, 507 died there just yesterday. A month and a half and 20,681 died in that one state. Vast majority of American deaths, 49,845 last I looked (the highest death toll on the entire planet by far) started dying around the same time to about 15 days earlier, so we are looking at around 50,000 in about 2 months. You want to liken it to a war? We lost 211,454 in Vietnam with 1,597 still missing, mostly between 1959 and 1975. We were not losing nearly 50,000 troops in two month periods during that 15 to 16 year war. Between 2003 and 2011 we lost 36,710 in 8 years of that senseless BS in Iraq, and we are way past that in the last two months, losing 2,325 American across the country yesterday. This ain't war. The dying are unarmed civilians, totally without the ability to fight and kill the enemy that is killing them.

You are counting the casualties the wrong way.

4,287 US troops as casualties in Iraq but about 300,000 Iraqi casualties (including civilians) at the end of that invasion.

You forgot that every war you have mentioned has happened in foreign land.

Now the war is in this land, and the number of casualties by this enemy Corona virus will be enormous, it is expected to be huge.

Don't tell me about real men fighting for me, a 20 plus year combat arms officer, last serving active duty on G3 staff/ V Corps while 2 conflicts were being managed. I Know a little more about it than you. I have taught more about it than you. Don't preach to me and wag the flag in my face dweeb. I don't know who you served, but I know damn well who I served.

This is a new war, do you want to enlist again?

Even at my age I tremble before no man. Anybody fall down dead in front of you and forced you to take direct action to try in vain to save their life in the last month? I looked it in the face, knowing I was taking a chance, but there wasn't anybody else. A little hard to sleep, waking up seeing that face. He was a nice young man, two weeks back from Detroit, visiting his mother.

I remember once, two women were hit by a car that made the typical hit and run. One was unconscious with no hope, the another was conscious but with broken legs and bleeding a lot from the face. While neighbors were calling the ambulance, I just took my jacket and tried to hold the blood while talking to her. Most of people acted as witness, probably because the view was terrible.

Decades later I myself suffered an accident which required calling an ambulance. I ended bleeding from the head like crazy with my body facing down. At one moment I thought my brain was out and that those were my last minutes. After I recovered I was surprised myself that in those moments when the incident happened I didn't feel any fear but I accepted dying that way at that moment. I remember I was looking at the floor full of blood and I just said: "well... this is it..."

Luckily nothing but a huge cut which required stitches was the cause of the bleeding, however I ended one inch shorter because one vertebrae disc collapsed due to the falling from high altitude. Had lots of medicines and therapy but I refused surgeries.

And, I'm different than you, I have been always a complete coward at the time of fighting, always running rather than confronting someone, but when I had no choice then I tried to hit the harder I can. (my grandfather taught me so).

You and I are completely different, but when is about a fight with an unknown enemy, and the future of my children are in play, I don't hesitate to leave my cowardice aside and fight. At my age (and at your age), if any fight , to me it won't be about "me" anymore, but about others, about the future generation.

You might think different, and I will understand.

I'm not going back to work, PERIOD. My dues are paid.

 

[beagle9]

It is a viral contagion that makes about one in 10 people have serious symptoms, one in 100 sick enough to seek medical treatment and one in 1,000 die prematurely. It's principal danger is to older people with preexisting conditions who are susceptible to pneumonia-like infections. The actual threat to the general population is minimal.

Agree/disagree? (Please explain.)

You provided absolutely no references to support your claims. You also claim no subject matter expertise. You also neglected to mention how contagious it is.
So literally no scientific or medical authority agrees with you.

Mortality Analyses - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center

How does mortality differ across countries? Examining the number of deaths per confirmed case and per 100,000 population. A global comparison.

coronavirus.jhu.edu

9 Things Everyone Should Know About the Coronavirus Outbreak

With concerns rising in the U.S. and throughout the world about the global impact of SARS-CoV-2 and COVID-19, we provide the nine things you need to know about the pandemic.

www.yalemedicine.org

CDC report noting that 20% of those who have been hospitalized for the disease in the U.S. are younger adults (between 20 and 44 years old).

The Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) Outbreak in China—Summary of a China CDC Report

This Viewpoint summarizes key epidemiologic and clinical findings from all cases of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) reported through February 11, 2020, in mainland China, and case trends in response to government attempts to control and contain the infection.

jamanetwork.com

Spectrum of disease (N = 44 415)

• Mild: 81% (36 160 cases)
• Severe: 14% (6168 cases)
• Critical: 5% (2087 cases)

The overall case-fatality rate (CFR) was 2.3%

I am not sure why older Americans are not considered to be part of the 'general population' but I think a disease that kills 2.3% of those who get infected is something to take seriously.

Ahhh the numbers, the numbers, but what is hidden in the numbers or is it that the numbers are being manipulated for political reasons ?? I would hope not, but after what I have seen since 2016, how can anyone trust anything anymore ?? Ralm Emmanuel alledgedly said it himself, "never let a good crisis go to waste" right ? Nevermind we have an election coming up, because of course no one would try to capitalize on that with this thing now would they ?? Pffft.

 

[Coyote]

At

Not deceptive, just not supportive of the premise that the economy should be put back wide open, because the only people dying of it are old people, so it doesn't matter, because the economy should be more important to the the younger people. There appears to be a repeating feeling expressed on the board, that younger people should go about their lives, whether they continue to spread the disease or not, because older people are the ones in danger and that they have little or no value to younger generation.

This is my take on this virus.

Human lives are very valuable, and the duty of a government is to protect them.

However, we are at a point where the government and the people both want a solution "without sacrifices".

And this kind of solution won't be possible.

This situation against the virus has been called "a war", and war causes lots of casualties. So, we must start calling heroes to the dead ones because the virus. And will be more heroes in the future.

One casualty from every 1,000 troops is a very low percent.

But the war is not over yet.

Then, the government and the people must give up their demands and have an agreement where casualties will be accepted without retaliations.

The government allowing the reopening of cities and people returning to their daily life AT THEIR OWN RISK.

If the rate of casualties increases, people won't put the responsibility on the government, and the government won't close back cities as well.

As in any war, it will be lots of casualties and lots of survivors.

You just can have a win win scenario with a pandemic, you must be ready to lose your life so others will have a better life.

But, I know, like me you are here in these forums expecting the government alone to do the job for you, to demand and demand but you are never in the mood to do a sacrifice. Pride consumes you, arrogance guides you, you want everything served in the table. The education given to you has made you a coward.

You just forgot how those real men from the past fought for you to enjoy what you have today. If this pandemic happened 200 years ago, those men, women, elder and even children won't hesitate to suffer and sacrifice even themselves at exchange of giving better future to others.

And with this war against the virus you expect the government to be the only one fighting against it.

You see one death between 1,000 and you cry wolf, hide under the table, tremble like sneak with epilepsy and cry.

Tell the government you will go to work and have your normal life AT YOUR OWN RISK, and you and your family won't demand anything if you die because the virus. Sign your paper enlisting to the war against the virus and be ready to die for or have victory.

Show you are a man.

Have you asked that segment of the population how they feel about being selected to be “casualties”?

 

[White 6]

At

Not deceptive, just not supportive of the premise that the economy should be put back wide open, because the only people dying of it are old people, so it doesn't matter, because the economy should be more important to the the younger people. There appears to be a repeating feeling expressed on the board, that younger people should go about their lives, whether they continue to spread the disease or not, because older people are the ones in danger and that they have little or no value to younger generation.

This is my take on this virus.

Human lives are very valuable, and the duty of a government is to protect them.

However, we are at a point where the government and the people both want a solution "without sacrifices".

And this kind of solution won't be possible.

This situation against the virus has been called "a war", and war causes lots of casualties. So, we must start calling heroes to the dead ones because the virus. And will be more heroes in the future.

One casualty from every 1,000 troops is a very low percent.

But the war is not over yet.

Then, the government and the people must give up their demands and have an agreement where casualties will be accepted without retaliations.

The government allowing the reopening of cities and people returning to their daily life AT THEIR OWN RISK.

If the rate of casualties increases, people won't put the responsibility on the government, and the government won't close back cities as well.

As in any war, it will be lots of casualties and lots of survivors.

You just can have a win win scenario with a pandemic, you must be ready to lose your life so others will have a better life.

But, I know, like me you are here in these forums expecting the government alone to do the job for you, to demand and demand but you are never in the mood to do a sacrifice. Pride consumes you, arrogance guides you, you want everything served in the table. The education given to you has made you a coward.

You just forgot how those real men from the past fought for you to enjoy what you have today. If this pandemic happened 200 years ago, those men, women, elder and even children won't hesitate to suffer and sacrifice even themselves at exchange of giving better future to others.

And with this war against the virus you expect the government to be the only one fighting against it.

You see one death between 1,000 and you cry wolf, hide under the table, tremble like sneak with epilepsy and cry.

Tell the government you will go to work and have your normal life AT YOUR OWN RISK, and you and your family won't demand anything if you die because the virus. Sign your paper enlisting to the war against the virus and be ready to die for or have victory.

Show you are a man.

Hi. Just read your BS post. You can trivialize the disease with your stats, all you want. Here is some trivialization. Since about March 14, New York has had 20,681 people die, 507 died there just yesterday. A month and a half and 20,681 died in that one state. Vast majority of American deaths, 49,845 last I looked (the highest death toll on the entire planet by far) started dying around the same time to about 15 days earlier, so we are looking at around 50,000 in about 2 months. You want to liken it to a war? We lost 211,454 in Vietnam with 1,597 still missing, mostly between 1959 and 1975. We were not losing nearly 50,000 troops in two month periods during that 15 to 16 year war. Between 2003 and 2011 we lost 36,710 in 8 years of that senseless BS in Iraq, and we are way past that in the last two months, losing 2,325 American across the country yesterday. This ain't war. The dying are unarmed civilians, totally without the ability to fight and kill the enemy that is killing them.

Don't tell me about real men fighting for me, a 20 plus year combat arms officer, last serving active duty on G3 staff/ V Corps while 2 conflicts were being managed. I Know a little more about it than you. I have taught more about it than you. Don't preach to me and wag the flag in my face dweeb. I don't know who you served, but I know damn well who I served.

Even at my age I tremble before no man. Anybody fall down dead in front of you and forced you to take direct action to try in vain to save their life in the last month? I looked it in the face, knowing I was taking a chance, but there wasn't anybody else. A little hard to sleep, waking up seeing that face. He was a nice young man, two weeks back from Detroit, visiting his mother.

I'm not going back to work, PERIOD. My dues are paid.

I do not want to see the individual states rush back in, any sooner than the local conditions of the individual states and city's situations warrant, with a modicum of belief that the local epidemic can be reasonably be contained or managed without provoking an early second wave. Pretty sure we will have a second wave in the fall, but apparently can't be helped. People are important to me, probably more so, than to you. Don't bring me any more of your crap tonight, unless you wish to join the dishonorably ignored.

LOL, aren't you sanctimonious.

P.S. How did you come up with: We lost 211,454 in Vietnam? I thought it was 55,000.

Oops. total US casualties, includes wounded, other, missing ect. United States military casualties of war - Wikipedia

War................................................Year..................................Combat......Other...............Total Killed.....Wounded......Total US Casualties

Vietnam War​

1955–1975​

47,424

10,785

58,209

153,303

211,454

 

[White 6]

At

Not deceptive, just not supportive of the premise that the economy should be put back wide open, because the only people dying of it are old people, so it doesn't matter, because the economy should be more important to the the younger people. There appears to be a repeating feeling expressed on the board, that younger people should go about their lives, whether they continue to spread the disease or not, because older people are the ones in danger and that they have little or no value to younger generation.

This is my take on this virus.

Human lives are very valuable, and the duty of a government is to protect them.

However, we are at a point where the government and the people both want a solution "without sacrifices".

And this kind of solution won't be possible.

This situation against the virus has been called "a war", and war causes lots of casualties. So, we must start calling heroes to the dead ones because the virus. And will be more heroes in the future.

One casualty from every 1,000 troops is a very low percent.

But the war is not over yet.

Then, the government and the people must give up their demands and have an agreement where casualties will be accepted without retaliations.

The government allowing the reopening of cities and people returning to their daily life AT THEIR OWN RISK.

If the rate of casualties increases, people won't put the responsibility on the government, and the government won't close back cities as well.

As in any war, it will be lots of casualties and lots of survivors.

You just can have a win win scenario with a pandemic, you must be ready to lose your life so others will have a better life.

But, I know, like me you are here in these forums expecting the government alone to do the job for you, to demand and demand but you are never in the mood to do a sacrifice. Pride consumes you, arrogance guides you, you want everything served in the table. The education given to you has made you a coward.

You just forgot how those real men from the past fought for you to enjoy what you have today. If this pandemic happened 200 years ago, those men, women, elder and even children won't hesitate to suffer and sacrifice even themselves at exchange of giving better future to others.

And with this war against the virus you expect the government to be the only one fighting against it.

You see one death between 1,000 and you cry wolf, hide under the table, tremble like sneak with epilepsy and cry.

Tell the government you will go to work and have your normal life AT YOUR OWN RISK, and you and your family won't demand anything if you die because the virus. Sign your paper enlisting to the war against the virus and be ready to die for or have victory.

Show you are a man.

Hi. Just read your BS post. You can trivialize the disease with your stats, all you want. Here is some trivialization. Since about March 14, New York has had 20,681 people die, 507 died there just yesterday. A month and a half and 20,681 died in that one state. Vast majority of American deaths, 49,845 last I looked (the highest death toll on the entire planet by far) started dying around the same time to about 15 days earlier, so we are looking at around 50,000 in about 2 months. You want to liken it to a war? We lost 211,454 in Vietnam with 1,597 still missing, mostly between 1959 and 1975. We were not losing nearly 50,000 troops in two month periods during that 15 to 16 year war. Between 2003 and 2011 we lost 36,710 in 8 years of that senseless BS in Iraq, and we are way past that in the last two months, losing 2,325 American across the country yesterday. This ain't war. The dying are unarmed civilians, totally without the ability to fight and kill the enemy that is killing them.

Don't tell me about real men fighting for me, a 20 plus year combat arms officer, last serving active duty on G3 staff/ V Corps while 2 conflicts were being managed. I Know a little more about it than you. I have taught more about it than you. Don't preach to me and wag the flag in my face dweeb. I don't know who you served, but I know damn well who I served.

Even at my age I tremble before no man. Anybody fall down dead in front of you and forced you to take direct action to try in vain to save their life in the last month? I looked it in the face, knowing I was taking a chance, but there wasn't anybody else. A little hard to sleep, waking up seeing that face. He was a nice young man, two weeks back from Detroit, visiting his mother.

I'm not going back to work, PERIOD. My dues are paid.

I do not want to see the individual states rush back in, any sooner than the local conditions of the individual states and city's situations warrant, with a modicum of belief that the local epidemic can be reasonably be contained or managed without provoking an early second wave. Pretty sure we will have a second wave in the fall, but apparently can't be helped. People are important to me, probably more so, than to you. Don't bring me any more of your crap tonight, unless you wish to join the dishonorably ignored.

All that said, but do you realize that the remedies are turning out to be worse than the disease ?? We can do this, and do it right, but we can't live in fear. A whole heaping of common sense is needed now, and a whole lot of respect for one another is also needed. Greed must not over ride safety on the job sites for anyone that is working people. Where greed is, so shall the virus be also. So companies best get with the safety aspect of this thing, and leave no man or woman behind.

True, but disease is pretty bad today.

USA State	Total Cases	New Cases	Total Deaths	New Deaths	Active Cases	Tot Cases/ 1M pop	Deaths/ 1M pop	Total Tests	Tests/ 1M pop	Source
USA Total	924,402	+37,960	52,168	+1,934	761,802	2,793	158	5,015,602	15,153

United States COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

United States Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info