More Brutality? How many cops need to go to jail before it stops?

[XponentialChaos]

I’m not sure how anyone can see the dog necessary in that particular arrest. The guy was being fully cooperative.

Not only was he cooperative but he was completely surrounded by at least 6 officers. And they all just stood there and watched the guy get mauled.

C'mon guys. We need our police officers to be better than this.

..X would do everything PERFECT all the time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! -he is perfect!!!
...there is not a problem of police brutality ..all stats/etc here:

there is no police brutality problem

..there are 10 MILLION arrests per year--this is not counting traffic stops ..there are 30 million calls for police assistance ..and how many without--a--question--police caused murder/manslaughter deaths ??? let's go high and say 30 [ and 30 is a lot more than there really is ] ..that's 1...

www.usmessageboard.com

I'm not perfect, but I wouldn't send a dog to maul someone that was fully cooperative.

1. this is not like making a cheese sandwich --it's complicated
2.he was endangering all kinds of people with the car chase-fk him--he deserved it...they didn't kill him...

How complicated is it to not send a dog to attack someone being compliant?

This isn’t rocket science here.

I don't disagree but why are people so focused every single time on the criminal's abuse received instead of focusing more on why the criminals are doing idiotic things that make any of this possible in the first place?

If people just stop being criminal thugs, then imagine what a pleasant world it really could be.

Speaking of imagining a better world. Just a thought to explore:

Instead of coddling and making criminals into glorified martyrs, we should make punishing criminals more severe. You steal a car and endanger lives with a high speed chase? You get tied to a RR track until a train runs over you. You resist arrest in any physical fashion? shot dead legally.

Implement this law, and word gets out quick. Watch how quickly the criminals put their hands up and comply, or here's a thought, maybe reconsider committing a crime.

Right. We should just make people less shitty. That would be great if we could accomplish that.

Will more severe punishment accomplish that? I don’t know but I’m highly skeptical.
Do states with more severe punishments have less crime rates? Do countries with more severe punishment have less crime? If you have data/evidence for this, I’ll listen.

But I don’t think it’s that simple. I think it’s naive to think that a single policy change will make everyone a good, decent person.

I think it’s easier to easier to make improvements to our trained professional officers than to expect our society to magically turn into good people. But ideally, we can strive for both.

 

[SavannahMann]

I’m not sure how anyone can see the dog necessary in that particular arrest. The guy was being fully cooperative.

Not only was he cooperative but he was completely surrounded by at least 6 officers. And they all just stood there and watched the guy get mauled.

C'mon guys. We need our police officers to be better than this.

..X would do everything PERFECT all the time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! -he is perfect!!!
...there is not a problem of police brutality ..all stats/etc here:

there is no police brutality problem

..there are 10 MILLION arrests per year--this is not counting traffic stops ..there are 30 million calls for police assistance ..and how many without--a--question--police caused murder/manslaughter deaths ??? let's go high and say 30 [ and 30 is a lot more than there really is ] ..that's 1...

www.usmessageboard.com

I'm not perfect, but I wouldn't send a dog to maul someone that was fully cooperative.

1. this is not like making a cheese sandwich --it's complicated
2.he was endangering all kinds of people with the car chase-fk him--he deserved it...they didn't kill him...

How complicated is it to not send a dog to attack someone being compliant?

This isn’t rocket science here.

I don't disagree but why are people so focused every single time on the criminal's abuse received instead of focusing more on why the criminals are doing idiotic things that make any of this possible in the first place?

If people just stop being criminal thugs, then imagine what a pleasant world it really could be.

Speaking of imagining a better world. Just a thought to explore:

Instead of coddling and making criminals into glorified martyrs, we should make punishing criminals more severe. You steal a car and endanger lives with a high speed chase? You get tied to a RR track until a train runs over you. You resist arrest in any physical fashion? shot dead legally.

Implement this law, and word gets out quick. Watch how quickly the criminals put their hands up and comply, or here's a thought, maybe reconsider committing a crime.

Of course. I mean. Look at Iran. They Stone people to death and have zero crime. No. Wait. They don’t have zero crime.

The Soviets had a severe system and never had zero crime. The Chinese have a brutal system and still have crime.

France and the US had public executions. They still had crime in both. England had public executions and public punishments. Crime still existed. All through history your attitude prevailed and there has never been a crime free period because of it.

So let’s consider something else. Norway has a rehabilitation focus to their criminals. And their Recidivism rate is less than ten percent. Ours is of course much much higher. If we accept that it will never be zero then shouldn’t we do whatever we can to get it as low as possible?

But let’s pretend that your way would really work. What happens next? Everyone would kill cops. Why not? You can only be executed once. What do you have to lose?

 

[cnm]

Police are taught not to get between the handler and the offender. Dogs have been known to get so focused on the job that they have bitten members as well as suspects.

Here anyone may seize or destroy a dog to stop it attacking people or stock. Don't you have that sort of rule there?

 

[SavannahMann]

As we can see, conservatives aren’t going to do anything to stop the brutality.

Rightists will continue to deflect and make excuses, claim these are only ‘isolated incidents’ and that no reform is needed.

And conservatives will repeat their usual lies about calling for law enforcement reform is being ‘anti-cop,’ when in fact nothing could be further from the truth.

To the OP’s question, it’s not going to stop as long as conservatives ignore the problem and oppose necessary, warranted reforms.

You expect PERFECT cops. There comes a time when emotions take over. The lesson is. Be careful who you piss off. The guy put a lot of innocent lives in danger. I have no sympathy.

During aircraft accident or incident investigations the actions of the pilots are examined in minute details. The final report is brutal where the actions of the pilot are concerned.

One example. The pilots of TACA 110. The engines went out on approach to New Orleans. The investigation determined that the engines needed a fix. The designers needed to fix something that nobody had ever really considered. Ok. Great.

The pilots landed a 737 on a Levy. The only example of a off field landing of a passenger jet. No injuries. No deaths. It was the best possible outcome. Yet the investigators found the pilots had not waited long enough to restart the engines causing a Hot Start and damage to the engines as well as the final failure of the engines.

I have always said that I probably would have done the same thing. I would have used duct tape to hold the igniter buttons down.

The point is that only by honestly and with such brutally honest assessments can we learn the truth and prevent the same accident from happening again. That is not perfection. That is what we expect. We expect the pilots to do it right. We expect medical people to do it right. We expect drivers to do it right.

When your teenager son gets a flat tire on the interstate and crashes. After he gets out of the hospital you are going to talk to him about what he did wrong. He did not turn the car properly. He did not gently brake to the side. We expect drivers to do it right. We expect them to avoid accidents. When they do not we see them issued citations and possibly sued to make restitution.

Only when we are discussing Law Enforcement do we say that anything they do is understandable. Nobody is perfect.

When the Doctor amputates the wrong leg do we say hey no big deal. Nobody is perfect. When a Trucker plows through an intersection and wipes out a Minivan full of kids we do not shrug and say hey Nobody is Perfect. We say the Trucker was wrong. We say the Doctor is wrong. We hold them accountable.

Why is it wrong to expect the same level of proficiency from Law Enforcement that we expect from every other profession? Millions of people face situations with a second to decide what to do where we say they screwed up. Only Cops get a pass.

 

[harmonica]

As we can see, conservatives aren’t going to do anything to stop the brutality.

Rightists will continue to deflect and make excuses, claim these are only ‘isolated incidents’ and that no reform is needed.

And conservatives will repeat their usual lies about calling for law enforcement reform is being ‘anti-cop,’ when in fact nothing could be further from the truth.

To the OP’s question, it’s not going to stop as long as conservatives ignore the problem and oppose necessary, warranted reforms.

You expect PERFECT cops. There comes a time when emotions take over. The lesson is. Be careful who you piss off. The guy put a lot of innocent lives in danger. I have no sympathy.

During aircraft accident or incident investigations the actions of the pilots are examined in minute details. The final report is brutal where the actions of the pilot are concerned.

One example. The pilots of TACA 110. The engines went out on approach to New Orleans. The investigation determined that the engines needed a fix. The designers needed to fix something that nobody had ever really considered. Ok. Great.

The pilots landed a 737 on a Levy. The only example of a off field landing of a passenger jet. No injuries. No deaths. It was the best possible outcome. Yet the investigators found the pilots had not waited long enough to restart the engines causing a Hot Start and damage to the engines as well as the final failure of the engines.

I have always said that I probably would have done the same thing. I would have used duct tape to hold the igniter buttons down.

The point is that only by honestly and with such brutally honest assessments can we learn the truth and prevent the same accident from happening again. That is not perfection. That is what we expect. We expect the pilots to do it right. We expect medical people to do it right. We expect drivers to do it right.

When your teenager son gets a flat tire on the interstate and crashes. After he gets out of the hospital you are going to talk to him about what he did wrong. He did not turn the car properly. He did not gently brake to the side. We expect drivers to do it right. We expect them to avoid accidents. When they do not we see them issued citations and possibly sued to make restitution.

Only when we are discussing Law Enforcement do we say that anything they do is understandable. Nobody is perfect.

When the Doctor amputates the wrong leg do we say hey no big deal. Nobody is perfect. When a Trucker plows through an intersection and wipes out a Minivan full of kids we do not shrug and say hey Nobody is Perfect. We say the Trucker was wrong. We say the Doctor is wrong. We hold them accountable.

Why is it wrong to expect the same level of proficiency from Law Enforcement that we expect from every other profession? Millions of people face situations with a second to decide what to do where we say they screwed up. Only Cops get a pass.

the same level is expected
NO--millions of people do NOT face the same situations--that's ludicrous

 

[harmonica]

I’m not sure how anyone can see the dog necessary in that particular arrest. The guy was being fully cooperative.

Not only was he cooperative but he was completely surrounded by at least 6 officers. And they all just stood there and watched the guy get mauled.

C'mon guys. We need our police officers to be better than this.

..X would do everything PERFECT all the time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! -he is perfect!!!
...there is not a problem of police brutality ..all stats/etc here:

there is no police brutality problem

..there are 10 MILLION arrests per year--this is not counting traffic stops ..there are 30 million calls for police assistance ..and how many without--a--question--police caused murder/manslaughter deaths ??? let's go high and say 30 [ and 30 is a lot more than there really is ] ..that's 1...

www.usmessageboard.com

I'm not perfect, but I wouldn't send a dog to maul someone that was fully cooperative.

1. this is not like making a cheese sandwich --it's complicated
2.he was endangering all kinds of people with the car chase-fk him--he deserved it...they didn't kill him...

How complicated is it to not send a dog to attack someone being compliant?

This isn’t rocket science here.

....bullshit--these situations are dynamic--you are dealing with IRRATIONAL/dangerous humans--DUH

 

[harmonica]

I’m not sure how anyone can see the dog necessary in that particular arrest. The guy was being fully cooperative.

Not only was he cooperative but he was completely surrounded by at least 6 officers. And they all just stood there and watched the guy get mauled.

C'mon guys. We need our police officers to be better than this.

..X would do everything PERFECT all the time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! -he is perfect!!!
...there is not a problem of police brutality ..all stats/etc here:

there is no police brutality problem

..there are 10 MILLION arrests per year--this is not counting traffic stops ..there are 30 million calls for police assistance ..and how many without--a--question--police caused murder/manslaughter deaths ??? let's go high and say 30 [ and 30 is a lot more than there really is ] ..that's 1...

www.usmessageboard.com

I'm not perfect, but I wouldn't send a dog to maul someone that was fully cooperative.

1. this is not like making a cheese sandwich --it's complicated
2.he was endangering all kinds of people with the car chase-fk him--he deserved it...they didn't kill him...

How complicated is it to not send a dog to attack someone being compliant?

This isn’t rocket science here.

the GReat X and SavMann would do everything perfectly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
..you jackasses--jesus christ---there are going to be problems--it's in my thread--humans make mistakes!
big DUH!!!!
...you people would shit in your pants
--you never made a mistake?????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!???????????

 

[harmonica]

I’m not sure how anyone can see the dog necessary in that particular arrest. The guy was being fully cooperative.

Not only was he cooperative but he was completely surrounded by at least 6 officers. And they all just stood there and watched the guy get mauled.

C'mon guys. We need our police officers to be better than this.

..X would do everything PERFECT all the time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! -he is perfect!!!
...there is not a problem of police brutality ..all stats/etc here:

there is no police brutality problem

..there are 10 MILLION arrests per year--this is not counting traffic stops ..there are 30 million calls for police assistance ..and how many without--a--question--police caused murder/manslaughter deaths ??? let's go high and say 30 [ and 30 is a lot more than there really is ] ..that's 1...

www.usmessageboard.com

I'm not perfect, but I wouldn't send a dog to maul someone that was fully cooperative.

1. this is not like making a cheese sandwich --it's complicated
2.he was endangering all kinds of people with the car chase-fk him--he deserved it...they didn't kill him...

How complicated is it to not send a dog to attack someone being compliant?

This isn’t rocket science here.

if the jackasses wouldn't commit crimes AND resist arrest, there'd be no problem--THEY are to blame also--but you people LOVE criminals---give them a medal and $$$$ = STUPID

 

[Billiejeens]

I’m not sure how anyone can see the dog necessary in that particular arrest. The guy was being fully cooperative.

Not only was he cooperative but he was completely surrounded by at least 6 officers. And they all just stood there and watched the guy get mauled.

C'mon guys. We need our police officers to be better than this.

..X would do everything PERFECT all the time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! -he is perfect!!!
...there is not a problem of police brutality ..all stats/etc here:

there is no police brutality problem

..there are 10 MILLION arrests per year--this is not counting traffic stops ..there are 30 million calls for police assistance ..and how many without--a--question--police caused murder/manslaughter deaths ??? let's go high and say 30 [ and 30 is a lot more than there really is ] ..that's 1...

www.usmessageboard.com

I'm not perfect, but I wouldn't send a dog to maul someone that was fully cooperative.

1. this is not like making a cheese sandwich --it's complicated
2.he was endangering all kinds of people with the car chase-fk him--he deserved it...they didn't kill him...

How complicated is it to not send a dog to attack someone being compliant?

This isn’t rocket science here.

I don't disagree but why are people so focused every single time on the criminal's abuse received instead of focusing more on why the criminals are doing idiotic things that make any of this possible in the first place?

If people just stop being criminal thugs, then imagine what a pleasant world it really could be.

Speaking of imagining a better world. Just a thought to explore:

Instead of coddling and making criminals into glorified martyrs, we should make punishing criminals more severe. You steal a car and endanger lives with a high speed chase? You get tied to a RR track until a train runs over you. You resist arrest in any physical fashion? shot dead legally.

Implement this law, and word gets out quick. Watch how quickly the criminals put their hands up and comply, or here's a thought, maybe reconsider committing a crime.

"I don't disagree but why are people so focused every single time on the criminal's abuse received instead of focusing more on why the criminals are doing idiotic things that make any of this possible in the first place?"


Is it because while normal people were simply living their lives, going to work, taking care of their families we let the inmates take over the alyssum?
and it just keeps spreading?

I think so -
Which clearly was a mistake.
Easier to put the cap on the toothpaste than trying to put the leaked toothpaste back in.

 

[eagle1462010]

Fuck him...........I don't care about the dog.

He did a high speed chase and tried to run over a police officer with his truck.....forcing police to shoot him in defense..........

They were in no mood to be polite to this guy........poor pityful me routine..........

Guess the OP wouldn't care if the Police officer had actually been run over by this idiot..........

Oh well.

 

[Likkmee]

I normally take the side of the cops and the guy probably deserved it but professionally the cops shouldnt have sicked the dog on him.

True. It's dog abuse. I would have tazered him 1/2 a dozen times instead.What happened to those lil flapjacks with the lead inside ? You could smash a mf in the collarbone and his mommy could hear him 10 miles away

 

[eagle1462010]

I normally take the side of the cops and the guy probably deserved it but professionally the cops shouldnt have sicked the dog on him.

True. It's dog abuse. I would have tazered him 1/2 a dozen times instead.What happened to those lil flapjacks with the lead inside ? You could smash a mf in the collarbone and his mommy could hear him 10 miles away

The police need more practice on the gun range............shot at the guy 7 times and missed except for grazing him as he tried to kill them with his truck.

geesh.

 

[WTF19]

I normally take the side of the cops and the guy probably deserved it but professionally the cops shouldnt have sicked the dog on him.

why? asswipe tries to outrun cops and possibly run your family down. i guess you would like this outcome better. right? go get em rover, enjoy the treat!!!

 

[WTF19]

I’m not sure how anyone can see the dog necessary in that particular arrest. The guy was being fully cooperative.

Not only was he cooperative but he was completely surrounded by at least 6 officers. And they all just stood there and watched the guy get mauled.

C'mon guys. We need our police officers to be better than this.

..X would do everything PERFECT all the time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! -he is perfect!!!
...there is not a problem of police brutality ..all stats/etc here:

there is no police brutality problem

..there are 10 MILLION arrests per year--this is not counting traffic stops ..there are 30 million calls for police assistance ..and how many without--a--question--police caused murder/manslaughter deaths ??? let's go high and say 30 [ and 30 is a lot more than there really is ] ..that's 1...

www.usmessageboard.com

I'm not perfect, but I wouldn't send a dog to maul someone that was fully cooperative.

if this moron was co-operative, there wouldnt have been a high speed chase. duh

 

[WTF19]

First I am going to post the raw video.



The suspect had run. He had driven at more than 100 MPH attempting to flee according to reports. And none of that matters one damn bit.

Prescott Valley police defend canine use in traffic arrest

Police on Monday justified the use of an attack dog on a suspect who appeared on a police body cam video to be complying with officers.

apnews.com

Saldivar was complying. He was prone on the ground as directed. He got to his knees as directed. He started to stand obeying orders from the police when they sent in the attack dog.

The Chief says he is not going to second guess the officers on the scene.



Chief. That is literally your job. That is literally the job of a supervisor to judge and assess the performance of subordinates. It is literally the job of a boss to make sure the employees are doing what they are supposed to.

In the meantime the Police have been polled. They insist they do not need reforms. They are doing a fantastic job. Shut up and go away.

Police departments everywhere largely reject calls for woke reforms

hotair.com

This is not doing a fantastic job. This as nearly every recent example of brutality clearly shows that Law Enforcement is desperately in need of reform.

Now. In truth if people are unwilling to change then change will be forced upon them. And the changes forced are most often far more extreme than what could have been done by the participants.

In a week the Prescott Valley Police will be wishing they had said that actions were wrong. In two weeks the cops involved will be facing prosecution for their actions. In a month cops will be fired and the Department will announce the Grand Jury decision to indict.

Not police brutality -- they only let one dog attack him....what is brutality is them not allowing the other dog to have some fun.....

Look....he is an illegal alien criminal scumbag...not a real person

It wasn't like he was standing up for his right to not wear a mask -- something noble...

he must have been set up

 

[XponentialChaos]

I’m not sure how anyone can see the dog necessary in that particular arrest. The guy was being fully cooperative.

Not only was he cooperative but he was completely surrounded by at least 6 officers. And they all just stood there and watched the guy get mauled.

C'mon guys. We need our police officers to be better than this.

..X would do everything PERFECT all the time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! -he is perfect!!!
...there is not a problem of police brutality ..all stats/etc here:

there is no police brutality problem

..there are 10 MILLION arrests per year--this is not counting traffic stops ..there are 30 million calls for police assistance ..and how many without--a--question--police caused murder/manslaughter deaths ??? let's go high and say 30 [ and 30 is a lot more than there really is ] ..that's 1...

www.usmessageboard.com

I'm not perfect, but I wouldn't send a dog to maul someone that was fully cooperative.

1. this is not like making a cheese sandwich --it's complicated
2.he was endangering all kinds of people with the car chase-fk him--he deserved it...they didn't kill him...

How complicated is it to not send a dog to attack someone being compliant?

This isn’t rocket science here.

....bullshit--these situations are dynamic--you are dealing with IRRATIONAL/dangerous humans--DUH

...who are being completely compliant.

 

[XponentialChaos]

if this moron was co-operative, there wouldnt have been a high speed chase. duh

Oh. I wasn’t saying that he was being cooperative during the high speed chase. Was anyone suggesting that he was being cooperative while he was fleeing from the police? That’s weird. I don’t think I saw anyone arguing that. I know I certainly didn’t suggest that he was being cooperative while he was fleeing. That would be silly.

However, once they had him surrounded, he was being fully compliant. That’s what I meant when I said he was being compliant. Not compliant throughout the incident but compliant at the moment that they sent the dog out to attack him.

I hope that clears things up. Sorry if I was being unclear.

 

[XponentialChaos]

I’m not sure how anyone can see the dog necessary in that particular arrest. The guy was being fully cooperative.

Not only was he cooperative but he was completely surrounded by at least 6 officers. And they all just stood there and watched the guy get mauled.

C'mon guys. We need our police officers to be better than this.

..X would do everything PERFECT all the time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! -he is perfect!!!
...there is not a problem of police brutality ..all stats/etc here:

there is no police brutality problem

..there are 10 MILLION arrests per year--this is not counting traffic stops ..there are 30 million calls for police assistance ..and how many without--a--question--police caused murder/manslaughter deaths ??? let's go high and say 30 [ and 30 is a lot more than there really is ] ..that's 1...

www.usmessageboard.com

I'm not perfect, but I wouldn't send a dog to maul someone that was fully cooperative.

1. this is not like making a cheese sandwich --it's complicated
2.he was endangering all kinds of people with the car chase-fk him--he deserved it...they didn't kill him...

How complicated is it to not send a dog to attack someone being compliant?

This isn’t rocket science here.

the GReat X and SavMann would do everything perfectly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
..you jackasses--jesus christ---there are going to be problems--it's in my thread--humans make mistakes!
big DUH!!!!
...you people would shit in your pants
--you never made a mistake?????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!???????????

I didn’t claim I would do everything perfectly but I wouldn’t send a dog to attack someone who was being compliant.

Not that hard.

 

[Billiejeens]

I’m not sure how anyone can see the dog necessary in that particular arrest. The guy was being fully cooperative.

Not only was he cooperative but he was completely surrounded by at least 6 officers. And they all just stood there and watched the guy get mauled.

C'mon guys. We need our police officers to be better than this.

..X would do everything PERFECT all the time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! -he is perfect!!!
...there is not a problem of police brutality ..all stats/etc here:

there is no police brutality problem

..there are 10 MILLION arrests per year--this is not counting traffic stops ..there are 30 million calls for police assistance ..and how many without--a--question--police caused murder/manslaughter deaths ??? let's go high and say 30 [ and 30 is a lot more than there really is ] ..that's 1...

www.usmessageboard.com

I'm not perfect, but I wouldn't send a dog to maul someone that was fully cooperative.

1. this is not like making a cheese sandwich --it's complicated
2.he was endangering all kinds of people with the car chase-fk him--he deserved it...they didn't kill him...

How complicated is it to not send a dog to attack someone being compliant?

This isn’t rocket science here.

....bullshit--these situations are dynamic--you are dealing with IRRATIONAL/dangerous humans--DUH

...who are being completely compliant.

Poor criminal

 

[Billiejeens]

if this moron was co-operative, there wouldnt have been a high speed chase. duh

Oh. I wasn’t saying that he was being cooperative during the high speed chase. Was anyone suggesting that he was being cooperative while he was fleeing from the police? That’s weird. I don’t think I saw anyone arguing that. I know I certainly didn’t suggest that he was being cooperative while he was fleeing. That would be silly.

However, once they had him surrounded, he was being fully compliant. That’s what I meant when I said he was being compliant. Not compliant throughout the incident but compliant at the moment that they sent the dog out to attack him.

I hope that clears things up. Sorry if I was being unclear.

I think people knew what you meant
No rational person would agree with you.