MN Faces Idea Of Lower Drinking Age, Again

[Agnapostate]

MN Faces Idea Of Lower Drinking Age, Again | KSFY.com - Your Source for News, Sports, Weather, and Community Events Sioux Falls, South Dakota 57104 | Local News

State lawmakers in Minnesota are bringing forward a plan to lower the drinking age from 21 to 18, and even allowing those sixteen and seventeen to drink in bars in accompanied by their parents.

There are at least four state representatives who are backing the plan.

Tom Hackbarth, a Republican from District 48A said, "I think that bars and restaurants are having a difficult time right now with the smoking ban that went into place. I think with economic times the way they are, I've never opposed the drinking age being 18."

He says the proposal could help the tavern industry. However, Mothers Against Drunk Driving opposes this idea.

Julie Zamora, a representative of MADD, said, "People who start drinking at younger ages are more likely to have problems with alcohol later in life."

This is not the first time that Minnesota has faced this issue. Last year a similar proposal was brought to the legislature, but never got a full hearing.

A commendable plan.

 

[auditor0007]

MN Faces Idea Of Lower Drinking Age, Again | KSFY.com - Your Source for News, Sports, Weather, and Community Events Sioux Falls, South Dakota 57104 | Local News

State lawmakers in Minnesota are bringing forward a plan to lower the drinking age from 21 to 18, and even allowing those sixteen and seventeen to drink in bars in accompanied by their parents.

There are at least four state representatives who are backing the plan.

Tom Hackbarth, a Republican from District 48A said, "I think that bars and restaurants are having a difficult time right now with the smoking ban that went into place. I think with economic times the way they are, I've never opposed the drinking age being 18."

He says the proposal could help the tavern industry. However, Mothers Against Drunk Driving opposes this idea.

Julie Zamora, a representative of MADD, said, "People who start drinking at younger ages are more likely to have problems with alcohol later in life."

This is not the first time that Minnesota has faced this issue. Last year a similar proposal was brought to the legislature, but never got a full hearing.

A commendable plan.

I tend to agree. At the same time, I think there needs t be some restrictions and guidelines. Drinking problems among younger people is not as much of a problem throughout much of Europe, and they allow younger people to drink at an earlier age. But it's not as cut and dry as just allowing these people the right to drink.

When it is said that people who start drinking at an earlier age are more likely to have problems with alcohol later in life, the problem is that kids that currently drink at an earlier age tend to do it for one reason only, and that is to get shit faced. If we did a better job of teaching our kids to drink responsilby, that might change.

 

[strollingbones]

i dont agree...lowering the drinking age does increase deaths by drunks on the highways

 

[garyd]

Well it seems to be a rather drastic way to cut down on school over crowding.

 

[jillian]

i dont agree...lowering the drinking age does increase deaths by drunks on the highways

I actually think that has a lot to do with how drinking is viewed as a "rite of passage" here where it isn't in other countries.

But I do think someone who's old enough to join the military should be able to buy a beer.

 

[roomy]

It is 18 the UK but they usually start at around 13/14 on the street corners and parks.

 

[jillian]

It is 18 the UK but they usually start at around 13/14 on the street corners and parks.

I think my friends were 15.,.. 'cept it was people's basements.

 

[pete]

It is 18 the UK but they usually start at around 13/14 on the street corners and parks.

It starts at 13/14 here as well in some cases and not a small number younger.
As was mentioned if you can put your life on the line in the military why cant you decide if you would like a beer legally.
My 20 year old has tried it, but doesnt drink and my 15 year old tried it and hopefully learned her lesson.
We teach not just let them run wild and I would like to beleive if they do drink they would call us or do the right thing. Its OUR responsibility.

 

[garyd]

Trouble is too many parents have totally abrogated the responsibility of being a parent.

 

[Agnapostate]

i dont agree...lowering the drinking age does increase deaths by drunks on the highways

That is a factually inaccurate claim, at least if you are referring to the 20,000+ lives that were allegedly saved by the drinking age since 1984.

The NHTSA's own data indicates that the number of lost lives among the same age group in Canada fell by a similar proportion, despite the fact that the drinking age remains 18 or 19 in Canada, depending on the region.

U.S. Department of Transportation - NHTSA - Determine Why There Are Fewer Young Alcohol-Impaired Drivers - IV. What Caused the Decrease? - DOT HS 809 348

This is alternately attributed to vehicular safety improvements, anti drunk-driving safety campaigns, or some other factor, but it is clear that a minimum drinking age of 21 is not the factor that saved lives.

Fatal crash data. Data from 1982 to date from the seven provinces for which these data are available (Alberta, British Columbia, Manitoba, New Brunswick, Ontario, Prince Edward Island, and Saskatchewan) were provided by the Transport Injury Research Foundation (TIRF). The data differ slightly from the United States FARS data in three ways. First, they record driver fatalities rather than driver involvements in fatal crashes. Second, they aggregate drivers age 16-19 rather than drivers under 21 as has been used for the United States. Finally, the TIRF file does not estimate alcohol presence for a driver without a BAC test. The proportion of fatally injured drivers with a positive BAC is calculated only for the drivers with a BAC test. Most drivers are tested: 76 percent of the age 16-19 driver fatalities in 1982 and 93 percent in 1997.

These differences may affect comparisons between the Canadian and United States data somewhat. For example, if BAC tests are available less frequently for sober drivers than for drinking drivers, then the proportion of fatally-injured drivers with a positive BAC calculated only from the tested drivers may overstate the proportion for all fatally-injured drivers. But these differences should not affect the trends over time or trend comparisons between the two countries.

Figure 31 shows the trend in Canadian fatally-injured drinking drivers aged 16-19. It looks rather similar to the United States trend of Figure 1, with a rapid decrease through about 1993 and no substantial change since then. (The Canadian trend fluctuates more from year to year than the United States trend since the absolute number of Canadian traffic fatalities is much smaller.) Figure 32 shows how very similar the two trends are by plotting both using a base of 1982 = 100 percent.

Figure 31.
Canadian Driver Fatalities, Age 16-19, with Positive BAC​

Figure 32.
US and Canadian Trends, Percentage Change from 1982
US: drivers under age 21 in fatal crashes with positive BAC (FARS)
Canada: driver fatalities age 16-19 with positive BAC (TIRF)​

Figure 33 shows the trend in the proportion of fatally-injured Canadian drivers with a positive BAC. The trend is similar to the corresponding United States trend of Figure 3. The absolute percentages are higher in Canada: 67 percent in 1982 (compared to 43 percent in the United States) and 39 percent in 1997 (compared to 21 percent). Some of this difference may be a result of the different methods used to estimate alcohol involvement in the two data files. Some may in fact reflect higher drinking and driving rates in Canada. But the trends in the two countries again appear very similar. Figure 34 compares the trends directly.

Figure 33.
Percent of Canadian Driver Fatalities, Age 16-19, with Positive BAC​

Figure 34.
US and Canadian Trends, Percentage Change from 1982
US: percentage of drivers under age 21 in fatal crashes with positive BAC (FARS)
Canada: percentage of driver fatalities age 16-19 with positive BAC (TIRF)​

Figures 32 and 34 show the same thing: as measured by fatal crash data, youth drinking and driving decreases in the United States and Canada from 1982 to 1997 were virtually identical. Other data strengthen this conclusion. In both countries, the number of young drinking drivers in fatal crashes decreased more rapidly than the number of older drinking drivers. A roadside survey in British Columbia produced results similar to Roeper and Voas (1999): a much smaller proportion of drivers age 16-19 than older drivers had a positive BAC, or a BAC exceeding the legal limit of 0.08 (Mayhew and Simpson, 1999).

Survey data. Smart, Adlaf, and Walsh (1994) report on biennial surveys of about 4,000 Ontario high school students similar to the Monitoring the Future surveys in the United States. Table 17 summarizes self-reported drinking changes from 1979 to 1991 from the two surveys.
Since the Ontario data come from a sample of students in grades 7-13, while the United States data come from high school seniors, it's no surprise that overall self-reported drinking levels are lower in Ontario. The reductions, though, are generally similar: a modest reduction in annual drinking, substantial reductions in binge drinking, and reductions close to 50 percent in both daily drinking (at low levels in both countries) and driving after drinking.

Hence, we obviously need to reanalyze the claim made by researchers that the minimum drinking age of 21 is responsible for reducing alcohol-related crash fatalities in the U.S.

It is 18 the UK but they usually start at around 13/14 on the street corners and parks.

The purchase age is 18 in the UK; I believe the actual drinking age is effectively 5. The UK is a separate case from the rest of Europe, though, which has substantially lower drinking ages than the U.S., and lower binge drinking rates as a result.

 

[WilliamC]

Lots of good comments here however having lived in UK Germany, Netherlands, Cyprus and having spent quite a lot of time in France the key element from my experience is not the age at which people start drinking but their attitudes towards socialising and the use of alcohol. I don't see any merit in using age to reduce drunk driving, iwhy not ban it all together, I am sure that has been tried some where before but was not very successful.

In the UK, as an earlier post indicated, access to and the use of consumption is seen as a rite of passage with too often the end result or desired outcome being to become drunk. Much of many peoples socialising revolves around pubs and drinking establishments where "binge drinking" encouraged and subsidised by unscrupulous publicans who offer 2 for 1 and happy hours which too often result in lots of drunken disorderly dont behavior from the younger generation. Restaurants/Bar eateries actively discourage parents from taking children therefore they are not exposed to social drinking and don't develop the ability to drink responsibly and in moderation.

On the European continent alcohol is considered as being just one element of a social gathering with cross generational socialising much more of the norm. When you go to a restaurant it is anticipated that you will take your children they will often drink wine and water from a young age, you learn to drink responsibly from your family and their peers. In this way there is not the same "status" which is generated by breeching a prohibition generating a desire to drink and look "cool", those who over indulge are not looked upon with respect.

Attitudes in the UK are changing as more people are exposed to the continent but perhaps the water-hole has already been poisoned and patterns of irresponsible drinking too deeply entrenched now. As for our family we all drink responsibly, if we are having a meal either at home or in a restaurant my 11 year old daughter is offered wine and water, more often than not she declines preferring a mineral water, juice or the unavoidable coke. She fully understands about the impact that alcohol can have if not drunk in moderation and with food and hopefully we have sown the correct seeds.

My perspective, expose and educate your children to alcohol from an early age, set the right example and don't put arbitrary age barriers which raise status for those who mange to circumnavigate the rules.

 

[Agnapostate]

You're right; I don't believe that specific age restrictions are an effective solution, and in fact, I don't support a minimum drinking age. I believe that moderation should be the fundamental element involved in alcohol consumption from an early age.

 

[Article 15]

The gov't will take away their highway funding if they do this.

 

[Agnapostate]

Oh, and everyone watch 60 Minutes tonight.

Boulder police chief to advocate lower drinking age on '60 Minutes' : County News : ColoradoDaily.com Boulder, CO

Boulder Police Chief Mark Beckner says he hopes his appearance tonight on CBS’ “60 Minutes” will get people talking about potential solutions to binge drinking and alcohol-enforcement issues.

But he said he also knows going national with his opinion that the legal drinking age should be lowered to 18 as part of a larger reform on alcohol laws might stir some controversy.

“We shouldn’t be afraid to have the discussion,” Beckner said. “We’ve got problems now, and the drinking for ages 18 to 21 is on the rise. Why wouldn’t we want to include everything on the table for discussion?”

 

[Agnapostate]

The gov't will take away their highway funding if they do this.

Ultimately, some states must be prepared to sacrifice it.

 

[alan1]

Lower the drinking age to 16 and raise the driving age to 21.
That way, by the time somebody starts driving, they already know what effects alcohol has on them.

 

[Agnapostate]

Lower the drinking age to 16 and raise the driving age to 21.
That way, by the time somebody starts driving, they already know what effects alcohol has on them.

No, that's not an effective solution. There's really no evidence that poor driving has a causative link with age.

 

[alan1]

Lower the drinking age to 16 and raise the driving age to 21.
That way, by the time somebody starts driving, they already know what effects alcohol has on them.

No, that's not an effective solution. There's really no evidence that poor driving has a causative link with age.

Actually, I think age can affect driving skills, although, that would be in the other direction. Some of the worst drivers on the road are the elderly.

More of the issue with young drivers is their lack of judgment more so than a lack of skill.

 

[Agnapostate]

Actually, I think age can affect driving skills, although, that would be in the other direction. Some of the worst drivers on the road are the elderly.

I suppose that's a valid point, considering that reflexes reach their highest point during youth.

More of the issue with young drivers is their lack of judgment more so than a lack of skill.

I've seen no evidence that that's causatively linked to youth either.

 

[alan1]

Actually, I think age can affect driving skills, although, that would be in the other direction. Some of the worst drivers on the road are the elderly.

I suppose that's a valid point, considering that reflexes reach their highest point during youth.

More of the issue with young drivers is their lack of judgment more so than a lack of skill.

I've seen no evidence that that's causatively linked to youth either.

There are exceptions to everything, but in general, youths tend to have poorer judgment than adults. Part of that is just lack of life experience.