Zone1 Mary's Consent

[SweetSue92]

As opposed to an outer space marriage?

Meaning, they had sex and had children, of course.

Catholics would have it that Mary remained a married virgin (!) for all her life. Against all other Biblical teachings.

 

[ChristisKing]

Meaning, they had sex and had children, of course.

Catholics would have it that Mary remained a married virgin (!) for all her life. Against all other Biblical teachings.

I know I'm just joking.

 

[Meriweather]

Why was Mary not allowed a fully human, productive marriage after the birth of Jesus Christ, Our Lord?

Before she was even betrothed, married, she took a vow of virginity; Joseph a vow of chastity. Again, this is early Christian tradition, and most likely remembered and talked about because this was not the usual custom of Judaism, quite the contrary. However, later investigation shows that within Judaism at this time, there were minor sects within Judaism that there were small communities where a few did take these vows.

The Bible does tell us that Jesus had kin; as ReinyDays noted, the Bible never says Mary is the mother of anyone other than Jesus. There is also the incident at the foot of the cross where Jesus tells John, 'Behold your mother'; and to Mary, 'Behold your son'. John would not have taken Mary under his care had Mary had other sons, children.

For me, the more interesting question is why, fifteen hundred years later, Protestants disregarded all of this and insisted on seeing Mary as a sexual being with numerous other children. Early on, one of the early Christians went to one of the Church leaders because of the concern that in Latin (even though the Latin still meant a large range of relatives) this Christian was concerned that some might take frater to mean Jesus had full-blooded brothers. The leader laughed and scoffed, "Who would ever believe that!"

The point is that the Catholic and Orthodox Church maintain the first century words and traditions that were passed on regarding Mary and Jesus' family. Protestants, for some reason, found it vitally important to change Mary's story and I've never been clear on why they wished to do this other than for some reason they decided it was an absolute must for Mary to have had sex and other children. Why is this so important to Protestants?

 

[ChristisKing]

Nonsense! Mary and Joseph had other children and the Bible doesn't mention anything about Mary promising to forever be a virgin.

 

[SweetSue92]

Before she was even betrothed, married, she took a vow of virginity; Joseph a vow of chastity. Again, this is early Christian tradition, and most likely remembered and talked about because this was not the usual custom of Judaism, quite the contrary. However, later investigation shows that within Judaism at this time, there were minor sects within Judaism that there were small communities where a few did take these vows.

The Bible does tell us that Jesus had kin; as ReinyDays noted, the Bible never says Mary is the mother of anyone other than Jesus. There is also the incident at the foot of the cross where Jesus tells John, 'Behold your mother'; and to Mary, 'Behold your son'. John would not have taken Mary under his care had Mary had other sons, children.

For me, the more interesting question is why, fifteen hundred years later, Protestants disregarded all of this and insisted on seeing Mary as a sexual being with numerous other children. Early on, one of the early Christians went to one of the Church leaders because of the concern that in Latin (even though the Latin still meant a large range of relatives) this Christian was concerned that some might take frater to mean Jesus had full-blooded brothers. The leader laughed and scoffed, "Who would ever believe that!"

The point is that the Catholic and Orthodox Church maintain the first century words and traditions that were passed on regarding Mary and Jesus' family. Protestants, for some reason, found it vitally important to change Mary's story and I've never been clear on why they wished to do this other than for some reason they decided it was an absolute must for Mary to have had sex and other children. Why is this so important to Protestants?

No. Wrong. Your faith did not keep this in the canon, the actual Bible, guided by the Holy Spirit. She was a sexual being because she was fully human, and a sinner like the rest of us

 

[Care4all]

Nonsense! Mary and Joseph had other children and the Bible doesn't mention anything about Mary promising to forever be a virgin.

So, who are Jesus's blood relatives today?

 

[Care4all]

No. Wrong. Your faith did not keep this in the canon, the actual Bible, guided by the Holy Spirit. She was a sexual being because she was fully human, and a sinner like the rest of us

So God chose Mary to bear His son, because she was a sinner, like the rest of us?

That makes no sense to me?

Can you explain why God would do that....?

 

[SweetSue92]

So God chose Mary to bear His son, because she was a sinner, like the rest of us?

That makes no sense to me?

Can you explain why God would do that....?

Yes, of course. Just as He chose Abraham, Moses, David, and Solomon, also, all sinners.

This is the big problem with Catholicism really: Jesus Christ is lost in the parade of other saints, the chief of which is Mary. She was not sinless. She does not need to be.

 

[SweetSue92]

So, who are Jesus's blood relatives today?

One thing is sure: Mary had an immaculate conception. So. Did God use part of her DNA to create the human Jesus Christ, or did He use her womb rather like a surrogate? We don't know. Surely Jesus was raised with human brothers and sisters, James being a notable one. Did he share "blood" with James? We don't know. I don't think it matters.

 

[SweetSue92]

Nonsense! Mary and Joseph had other children and the Bible doesn't mention anything about Mary promising to forever be a virgin.

One problem with Mary being "Sinless" then, is that it has to spiral backwards into all kinds of folktale stuff. For instance, the way SHE was conceived was also kind of miraculous, so that she becomes something like a female version of Christ himself.

Never supposed to be this way. And I say this as a big fan of the very human Mary.

 

[Care4all]

Yes, of course. Just as He chose Abraham, Moses, David, and Solomon, also, all sinners.

This is the big problem with Catholicism really: Jesus Christ is lost in the parade of other saints, the chief of which is Mary. She was not sinless. She does not need to be.

Maybe to you, but Jesus is not and never has been lost among many saints.

She does not need to be a sinner, or a non Virgin as you seem to think....anything and everything is possible with God, no?

 

[Care4all]

One problem with Mary being "Sinless" then, is that it has to spiral backwards into all kinds of folktale stuff. For instance, the way SHE was conceived was also kind of miraculous, so that she becomes something like a female version of Christ himself.

Never supposed to be this way. And I say this as a big fan of the very human Mary.

Nope. More like the very elderly Abraham and Sarah, bearing Isaac.... God had a direct hand in it....

 

[SweetSue92]

Maybe to you, but Jesus is not and never has been lost among many saints.

She does not need to be a sinner, or a non Virgin as you seem to think....anything and everything is possible with God, no?

Why do Catholics elevate her above the Bible that Catholics put together?

It makes no sense in any context.

 

[SweetSue92]

Nope. More like the very elderly Abraham and Sarah, bearing Isaac.... God had a direct hand in it....

Well no actually, not like that at all, I would say. Sarah got pg the usual way. God basically reversed what we can assume was her menopause. Miracle? Yes. But not a miracle "against nature". It was a natural conception.

Not so for Mary.

Funny that I concede the miraculous but not that Mary needs to be sinless for it to happen, nor that she had to remain a perpetual virgin. And I am not Catholic.

Really, I think the perpetual virgin stuff can be put down to popes/bishops/priests being celibate for some reason--and to be frank, some embedded misogyny in the Catholic church.

 

[buttercup]

So God chose Mary to bear His son, because she was a sinner, like the rest of us?

That makes no sense to me?

Can you explain why God would do that....?

No one said or implied that, so why would you ask such a silly question? I'm sure there were a number of reasons why God chose her, but I think the scriptures are clear that her faith and obedience made her stand out.

That doesn't mean she wasn't a sinner, she was human, not divine, and all humans are sinners.

 

[Care4all]

No one said or implied that, so why would you ask such a silly question? I'm sure there were a number of reasons why God chose her, but I think the scriptures are clear that her faith and obedience made her stand out.

That doesn't mean she wasn't a sinner, she was human, not divine, and all humans are sinners.

What I believe is she was chosen by God from the beginning, to bear His Child....before she was even born. God interacted with her parents who were old and unable to have a child, much like Sarah and Abraham, with God's Devine intervention, delivered their son....Her parents through God's Devine power, had her.

God knew what He was doing, and again, with His Devine intervention, had her deliver His son because she was prepared to do so...before she was even born.

Did God prepare her by being different from all other women that could have bore his son?

My answer is, with no doubt, God did so....she was faithful and obedient and full of grace from God, and all generations of humans would call her Blessed....as the Bible states.

I don't view that with insult, as you all seem to do....?

 

[Carl in Michigan]

she's be a ho in the very WASP suburban town in which I grew up----
back in the day-----to wit----HAPPY DAYS---da fifties

And the Jewish hood would like to have stoned her, so there's that with your bigotry

 

[Care4all]

Why do Catholics elevate her above the Bible that Catholics put together?

It makes no sense in any context.

I don't think they elevate her above the Bible, the Bible states she would be elevated among all women, forever and ever....in every generation, and every generation to come.

 

[irosie91]

And the Jewish hood would like to have stoned her, so there's that with your bigotry

wrong------coming up preggers was never a crime in JEW-HOOD------
you is thinking of HESTER PRYNNE

I don't think they elevate her above the Bible, the Bible states she would be elevated among all women, forever and ever....in every generation, and every generation to come.

THE BIBLE STATES----kinda a circular argument-----but that's ok with me

And the Jewish hood would like to have stoned her, so there's that with your bigotry

wrong!!! coming up preggers was never criminalized in jew-hood----your
jelly bean school marm lied

 

[Carl in Michigan]

I don't think they elevate her above the Bible, the Bible states she would be elevated among all women, forever and ever....in every generation, and every generation to come.

"Blessed among all women", not quite what you said