Zone1 Mary's Consent

[Care4all]

"Blessed among all women", not quite what you said

(Gabriel was the messenger from God....God was speaking through him.)

And

Luke 1:47-
…47and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior! 48For He has looked with favor on the humble state of His servant. From now on all generations will call me blessed. 49For the Mighty One has done great things for me. Holy is His name.…

 

[Meriweather]

Why do Catholics elevate her above the Bible that Catholics put together?

'Elevate' may be the key to this discussion. First, the Bible states Mary's position testified to by an angel of God. Mary was full of God's grace, and Mary states that this grace is not of her own doing but was given to her by God, her savior. She was immaculately conceived, a truth, a tradition, which Mary confirmed at Lourdes. Early Christians noted Mary's rather singular life of remaining a virgin throughout her life. This would not have been discussed, noted by early Christians had it not been out of the ordinary because married women were expected to have sex and to bear children. The Bible states that Mary will be called blessed down through the ages. Think about this...blessed by whom? God, of course. Scripture states that among women, Mary is the most blessed, the most favored/graced.

This is Mary's position, she was not 'elevated' to it. So....Why would anyone want to pull her down from this position? Reflect carefully and deeply. The answer may be the bitterness among women that they were not the one chosen by God, filled with His grace, and chosen to be the mother of Jesus. Why should Mary be more blessed than they? Their conclusion? She wasn't! We will call her a sinner! It was the luck of the draw that she (or any sinner) became the mother of Jesus! She is not the most blessed of all women! She did not retain her virginity! And on and on.

Could it be, that the haunting question then becomes, "Why wasn't I good enough?"

Mary provides the answer. She testifies that God raises high the lowly. God, indeed, did raise her up. Here is where Mary becomes a model to us. Hey, I'm lowly! Why wasn't I chosen to be raised high!? Except...we are, all of us who believe are raised up.

I look at my lowly life, I see where God has raised me, the life He has given me, His very real presence in His relationship with me. Because I understand God's relationship with me is unique and one-of-a-kind (here in the weeds of sin), I have a glimpse of His relationship with ALL others. Unique.

I can imagine God's relationship with Mary as among the flowers. I can imagine God's relationship with me as among the weeds. I can imagine God's relationship with some others being among thorns and brambles. The relationship that fills me with the greater awe are God's relationships among the thorns and brambles. I've given God more trouble than Mary ever did, but He deemed me worth being with anyway. Others have given God a great deal more trouble than I would ever think of, but look! God regards them as more than worthy of entering into a relationship with them, too!

We are all blessed.

 

[TNHarley]

Mary was a whore. She made that up to not make Joseph think she was repugnant.
Jesus was obviously not the messiah. The Messianic age never happened.
"ohhh but it will happen in his return" Oh yeah? Why did that not get established till after he died? The Jewish messiah is supposed to be human. Humans dont die, and come back thousands of years later.
The whole thing is hilarious, really. Longest running deception in history!

 

[Care4all]

Mary was a whore. She made that up to not make Joseph think she was repugnant.
Jesus was obviously not the messiah. The Messianic age never happened.
"ohhh but it will happen in his return" Oh yeah? Why did that not get established till after he died? The Jewish messiah is supposed to be human. Humans dont die, and come back thousands of years later.
The whole thing is hilarious, really. Longest running deception in history!

FYI- Elijah is human, and the Bible states he will return...

 

[ReinyDays]

The Bible states it when it CLEARLY states that Jesus had brothers and sisters

Where does the Bible state Mary's age? ... what strawman are you arguing with here ... my post #52 is my position in this matter ...

I've been clear about the "legendary" nature of my claims ... what religious folks would call "apocryphal" writings ... why do you wish to suppress that information if you're not a practicing Catholic? ...

 

[Road Runner]

So, who are Jesus's blood relatives today?

Well Jesus never had any biological children but from His brothers and sisters who knows?

One problem with Mary being "Sinless" then, is that it has to spiral backwards into all kinds of folktale stuff. For instance, the way SHE was conceived was also kind of miraculous, so that she becomes something like a female version of Christ himself.

Never supposed to be this way. And I say this as a big fan of the very human Mary.

Another problem is that if Mary was sinless then why didn't she just die on the cross for our sins? Why did Jesus have to do it?

Maybe to you, but Jesus is not and never has been lost among many saints.

She does not need to be a sinner, or a non Virgin as you seem to think....anything and everything is possible with God, no?

Mary is not the Savior and that's the point.

That doesn't mean she wasn't a sinner, she was human, not divine, and all humans are sinners.

Except for Jesus Christ.

 

[Meriweather]

Another problem is that if Mary was sinless then why didn't she just die on the cross for our sins? Why did Jesus have to do it?

Have to do it? God, Himself, took on human form and nature so that He could take on the sins of the world, and redeem the world He created. Listen. Many men and women died for the faith; I would bet Mary, herself, would die for the faith. This is different for giving one's life so that all would know sins are forgiven. No one can make that Covenant except God--and God became our sacrifice--and the sacrifice we offer--for the forgiveness of sins which is His Covenant with us. Remember? God alone forgives sins.

 

[Road Runner]

Have to do it? God, Himself, took on human form and nature so that He could take on the sins of the world, and redeem the world He created. Listen. Many men and women died for the faith; I would bet Mary, herself, would die for the faith. This is different for giving one's life so that all would know sins are forgiven. No one can make that Covenant except God--and God became our sacrifice--and the sacrifice we offer--for the forgiveness of sins which is His Covenant with us. Remember? God alone forgives sins.

I don't agree with any of that. Jesus died on the cross for our sins because He's the ONLY one who could. Period. End of story.

 

[BreezeWood]

This is the big problem with Catholicism really: Jesus Christ is lost in the parade of other saints, the chief of which is Mary. She was not sinless. She does not need to be.

you only claim sinfulness as the momentum for christianities existence - without sin there is no need for 92's religion - as some do live their lives.

same for mary who either never sinned or sinned no more before her son was born having learned the knowledge of what sin is to have the fortitude to not commit one again and was noticed by the heavens. as she conveyed to jesus her knowledge and their acceptance is what made them special to the heavens for their part in the events of the 1st century.

 

[LibertyKid]

Mary was a whore. She made that up to not make Joseph think she was repugnant.
Jesus was obviously not the messiah. The Messianic age never happened.
"ohhh but it will happen in his return" Oh yeah? Why did that not get established till after he died? The Jewish messiah is supposed to be human. Humans dont die, and come back thousands of years later.
The whole thing is hilarious, really. Longest running deception in history!

Some of the points you're making and the 'beliefs' that you are stating, especially regarding the eschatology, Jesus didn't say himself. Some of the concepts of his "second coming" and how that will take place didn't come about until dispensationalism came about by Darby. That was the 1800s. And the reason why dispensationalism came about is because many Christians have this absolute NEED to try and harmonize the Old Testament and the New Testament together, when in fact, no one was EVER commanded by Jesus, Paul, or any of the other apostles or disciples in the first century to organize and create a canonized library of first century letters and the Jewish Tanakh and call it the word of God.

Modern Christians need to ask themselves this question? What did the first Century Christians, especially those that saw Christ or had first and second hand accounts of Christ, believe to be 'saved' or considered 'Christian'?

 

[Meriweather]

I don't agree with any of that. Jesus died on the cross for our sins because He's the ONLY one who could. Period. End of story.

Which was what I said...but since I said it, you disagree. Out of curiosity, who do you think I said could have done the same. I could use a good laugh.

 

[Road Runner]

Which was what I said...but since I said it, you disagree. Out of curiosity, who do you think I said could have done the same. I could use a good laugh.

Nobody but that wasn't my point.

 

[Meriweather]

Nobody but that wasn't my point.

What was your point? Jesus (One with the Father) is the savior of mankind. Among Christians there should be 100% agreement on this. So why are you disagreeing with me? What is your point?

 

[Road Runner]

What was your point? Jesus (One with the Father) is the savior of mankind. Among Christians there should be 100% agreement on this. So why are you disagreeing with me? What is your point?

That Catholicism treats Mary like a savior too and she isn't. She's blessed by God and Jesus' mother but that's it.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Mary boned another guy (God) and should have been stoned to death per Jewish Law. Oh shit,!

Well sure, why do you think she lied?

 

[Zincwarrior]

Well sure, why do you think she lied?

That stoning thing is real pain.

 

[Meriweather]

That Catholicism treats Mary like a savior too

Wrong. Far from it.

 

[Road Runner]

Wrong. Far from it.

Really? Because I see an awful lot of glorifying Mary and not an awful lot glorifying Jesus Christ and you can't even pray to Jesus either can you? As apparently He has secretaries that you have to go through first.

 

[ding]

Really? Because I see an awful lot of glorifying Mary and not an awful lot glorifying Jesus Christ and you can't even pray to Jesus either can you? As apparently He has secretaries that you have to go through first.

This isn't correct.

 

[Road Runner]

This isn't correct.

So Catholics do pray to Jesus then?