Little Known Facts About General Robert Edward Lee

[rightwinger]

Some of these I already knew, but some suprised me.

Which ones surprised you?

That he was as opposed to slavery as he was and most of his family was pro-Union.

That is a Lost Cause myth....

The Myth of the Kindly General Lee

The legend of the Confederate leader’s heroism and decency is based in the fiction of a person who never existed.

www.theatlantic.com

When two of his slaves escaped and were recaptured, Lee either beat them himself or ordered the overseer to “lay it on well.” Wesley Norris, one of the slaves who was whipped, recalled that “not satisfied with simply lacerating our naked flesh, Gen. Lee then ordered the overseer to thoroughly wash our backs with brine, which was done.”

Lincoln is based on fiction. In reality he had the gift of a great quip but he was as racist as the next guy and an utterly confused politician who misjudged the confederacy to the point of criminality. Maybe he was distracted by his personal life but he did nothing to try to prevent the bloodshed of the civil war. Grant's alcoholism was well known but downplayed by the media and General Sherman was as crazy as legend says. Sherman, Sheridan and the rest of the Union rapists and pillagers would have been hanged in a just world.

Lincoln was way ahead of his time in opposition to slavery. The Lincoln/Douglas debates were unprecedented
Grants alcoholism was overstated. He was known to drink when he was bored or inactive. While engaging in battle, he was sober
I think Sherman understood the nature of war more than anyone. It was not a noble cause, it was about death and destruction.

LOL. You just exposed yourself as a fool.

Dishonest Abe NEVER opposed slavery. In fact, he offered to ensconce it in the Constitution if the South stopped secession and paid the tariff.

You’d know this if you bothered to read his first inaugural speech.

How many times will it take before you learn?

View attachment 326924

Amazingly you still can’t spot a lying opportunist at your advanced age, even after I’ve schooled you for ten years.

You are going all goofy on us

The South seceded precisely because of Lincoln’s stated views on slavery. The election of Lincoln threw the South into a panic and they elected to secede and form a slave state rather than see what Lincoln may do about the slave issue

You are confusing things. Let’s not debate why the South seceded. That is an entirely different issue

The debate is did Dishonest Abe REALLY oppose slavery. Clearly he did not.

Guess what gramps, Trump isn’t the first politician to lie all the time.

You are still going all goofy on us.

Lincoln’s position on abolition was well established. He had opposed the institution for over a decade. Lincoln was the most abolitionist of any major candidate of that era.
So much so, the southern states seceded rather than be ruled by him

True. On the other hand, wouldn't be the first politician, that, once in office, didn't pursue a campaign promise that would be hard, AND he did talk a lot of shit about NOT being against slavery, when he was trying to avoid secession.

Once Lincoln assumed office, his priority was to do whatever necessary to preserve the Union, resolving slavery was secondary.

But once the war was underway and it was clear that the North would win, Lincoln made passing the 13th amendment a priority and acceptance a requirement for Southern States rejoining the union

The GOP platform of no new slave states, was an obvious long term strategy to end slavery.

Lincoln's attempts at diplomacy with the South, was an obvious attempt to get them to not take action, so that time would quickly undermine their already weak position.

That is not "secondary" that is just wanting to reduce the cost of achieving the goal, ie abolition.


And "long term" might not have been all that long. States were being added pretty quick back then.

Lincoln’s personal opposition to slavery was long established in both his public speeches and private correspondence

Politically, he was pragmatic. He had no expectations that he could end slavery with the stroke of the pen. Lincoln favored a process of gradual emancipation. He favored compensating slave owners for the loss of their slaves, having individual states gradually abandoning the practice.

The south would have been better off if they had not panicked

LOL. The cultist ALWAYS ignores uncomfortable facts about their beloved Dishonest Abe.

You have yet to add anything of value to this discussion

 

[gipper]

Lincoln, the worst tyrant in american history.
Got 600k americans killed because he didnt want secession and disrupt the economy. Shit all over the bill of rights because he didnt want secession. Sent Sherman to rape murder and pillage because he didnt want sympathizers.
Wish booth would have acted sooner. He is still an american hero though.

Exactly right, yet Americans are duped by the state to think him a fucking saint.

It’s disgusting.

No wonder we elect assholes like Don, W, and Ears. Too many dumb people vote.

 

[gipper]

Some of these I already knew, but some suprised me.

Which ones surprised you?

That he was as opposed to slavery as he was and most of his family was pro-Union.

That is a Lost Cause myth....

The Myth of the Kindly General Lee

The legend of the Confederate leader’s heroism and decency is based in the fiction of a person who never existed.

www.theatlantic.com

When two of his slaves escaped and were recaptured, Lee either beat them himself or ordered the overseer to “lay it on well.” Wesley Norris, one of the slaves who was whipped, recalled that “not satisfied with simply lacerating our naked flesh, Gen. Lee then ordered the overseer to thoroughly wash our backs with brine, which was done.”

Lincoln is based on fiction. In reality he had the gift of a great quip but he was as racist as the next guy and an utterly confused politician who misjudged the confederacy to the point of criminality. Maybe he was distracted by his personal life but he did nothing to try to prevent the bloodshed of the civil war. Grant's alcoholism was well known but downplayed by the media and General Sherman was as crazy as legend says. Sherman, Sheridan and the rest of the Union rapists and pillagers would have been hanged in a just world.

Lincoln was way ahead of his time in opposition to slavery. The Lincoln/Douglas debates were unprecedented
Grants alcoholism was overstated. He was known to drink when he was bored or inactive. While engaging in battle, he was sober
I think Sherman understood the nature of war more than anyone. It was not a noble cause, it was about death and destruction.

LOL. You just exposed yourself as a fool.

Dishonest Abe NEVER opposed slavery. In fact, he offered to ensconce it in the Constitution if the South stopped secession and paid the tariff.

You’d know this if you bothered to read his first inaugural speech.

How many times will it take before you learn?

View attachment 326924

Amazingly you still can’t spot a lying opportunist at your advanced age, even after I’ve schooled you for ten years.

You are going all goofy on us

The South seceded precisely because of Lincoln’s stated views on slavery. The election of Lincoln threw the South into a panic and they elected to secede and form a slave state rather than see what Lincoln may do about the slave issue

You are confusing things. Let’s not debate why the South seceded. That is an entirely different issue

The debate is did Dishonest Abe REALLY oppose slavery. Clearly he did not.

Guess what gramps, Trump isn’t the first politician to lie all the time.

You are still going all goofy on us.

Lincoln’s position on abolition was well established. He had opposed the institution for over a decade. Lincoln was the most abolitionist of any major candidate of that era.
So much so, the southern states seceded rather than be ruled by him

True. On the other hand, wouldn't be the first politician, that, once in office, didn't pursue a campaign promise that would be hard, AND he did talk a lot of shit about NOT being against slavery, when he was trying to avoid secession.

Once Lincoln assumed office, his priority was to do whatever necessary to preserve the Union, resolving slavery was secondary.

But once the war was underway and it was clear that the North would win, Lincoln made passing the 13th amendment a priority and acceptance a requirement for Southern States rejoining the union

The GOP platform of no new slave states, was an obvious long term strategy to end slavery.

Lincoln's attempts at diplomacy with the South, was an obvious attempt to get them to not take action, so that time would quickly undermine their already weak position.

That is not "secondary" that is just wanting to reduce the cost of achieving the goal, ie abolition.


And "long term" might not have been all that long. States were being added pretty quick back then.

Lincoln’s personal opposition to slavery was long established in both his public speeches and private correspondence

Politically, he was pragmatic. He had no expectations that he could end slavery with the stroke of the pen. Lincoln favored a process of gradual emancipation. He favored compensating slave owners for the loss of their slaves, having individual states gradually abandoning the practice.

The south would have been better off if they had not panicked

LOL. The cultist ALWAYS ignores uncomfortable facts about their beloved Dishonest Abe.

You have yet to add anything of value to this discussion

Just the facts jack.

 

[gipper]

A battle tactics thread has now gone to shit.

Sorry. Lincoln cultists needed a good ass kicking.

 

[rightwinger]

Some of these I already knew, but some suprised me.

Which ones surprised you?

That he was as opposed to slavery as he was and most of his family was pro-Union.

That is a Lost Cause myth....

The Myth of the Kindly General Lee

The legend of the Confederate leader’s heroism and decency is based in the fiction of a person who never existed.

www.theatlantic.com

When two of his slaves escaped and were recaptured, Lee either beat them himself or ordered the overseer to “lay it on well.” Wesley Norris, one of the slaves who was whipped, recalled that “not satisfied with simply lacerating our naked flesh, Gen. Lee then ordered the overseer to thoroughly wash our backs with brine, which was done.”

Lincoln is based on fiction. In reality he had the gift of a great quip but he was as racist as the next guy and an utterly confused politician who misjudged the confederacy to the point of criminality. Maybe he was distracted by his personal life but he did nothing to try to prevent the bloodshed of the civil war. Grant's alcoholism was well known but downplayed by the media and General Sherman was as crazy as legend says. Sherman, Sheridan and the rest of the Union rapists and pillagers would have been hanged in a just world.

Lincoln was way ahead of his time in opposition to slavery. The Lincoln/Douglas debates were unprecedented
Grants alcoholism was overstated. He was known to drink when he was bored or inactive. While engaging in battle, he was sober
I think Sherman understood the nature of war more than anyone. It was not a noble cause, it was about death and destruction.

LOL. You just exposed yourself as a fool.

Dishonest Abe NEVER opposed slavery. In fact, he offered to ensconce it in the Constitution if the South stopped secession and paid the tariff.

You’d know this if you bothered to read his first inaugural speech.

How many times will it take before you learn?

View attachment 326924

Amazingly you still can’t spot a lying opportunist at your advanced age, even after I’ve schooled you for ten years.

You are going all goofy on us

The South seceded precisely because of Lincoln’s stated views on slavery. The election of Lincoln threw the South into a panic and they elected to secede and form a slave state rather than see what Lincoln may do about the slave issue

You are confusing things. Let’s not debate why the South seceded. That is an entirely different issue

The debate is did Dishonest Abe REALLY oppose slavery. Clearly he did not.

Guess what gramps, Trump isn’t the first politician to lie all the time.

You are still going all goofy on us.

Lincoln’s position on abolition was well established. He had opposed the institution for over a decade. Lincoln was the most abolitionist of any major candidate of that era.
So much so, the southern states seceded rather than be ruled by him

True. On the other hand, wouldn't be the first politician, that, once in office, didn't pursue a campaign promise that would be hard, AND he did talk a lot of shit about NOT being against slavery, when he was trying to avoid secession.

Once Lincoln assumed office, his priority was to do whatever necessary to preserve the Union, resolving slavery was secondary.

But once the war was underway and it was clear that the North would win, Lincoln made passing the 13th amendment a priority and acceptance a requirement for Southern States rejoining the union

The GOP platform of no new slave states, was an obvious long term strategy to end slavery.

Lincoln's attempts at diplomacy with the South, was an obvious attempt to get them to not take action, so that time would quickly undermine their already weak position.

That is not "secondary" that is just wanting to reduce the cost of achieving the goal, ie abolition.


And "long term" might not have been all that long. States were being added pretty quick back then.

Lincoln’s personal opposition to slavery was long established in both his public speeches and private correspondence

Politically, he was pragmatic. He had no expectations that he could end slavery with the stroke of the pen. Lincoln favored a process of gradual emancipation. He favored compensating slave owners for the loss of their slaves, having individual states gradually abandoning the practice.

The south would have been better off if they had not panicked

LOL. The cultist ALWAYS ignores uncomfortable facts about their beloved Dishonest Abe.

You have yet to add anything of value to this discussion

Just the facts jack.

When are you going to provide any?

 

[gipper]

Some of these I already knew, but some suprised me.

Which ones surprised you?

That he was as opposed to slavery as he was and most of his family was pro-Union.

That is a Lost Cause myth....

The Myth of the Kindly General Lee

The legend of the Confederate leader’s heroism and decency is based in the fiction of a person who never existed.

www.theatlantic.com

When two of his slaves escaped and were recaptured, Lee either beat them himself or ordered the overseer to “lay it on well.” Wesley Norris, one of the slaves who was whipped, recalled that “not satisfied with simply lacerating our naked flesh, Gen. Lee then ordered the overseer to thoroughly wash our backs with brine, which was done.”

Lincoln is based on fiction. In reality he had the gift of a great quip but he was as racist as the next guy and an utterly confused politician who misjudged the confederacy to the point of criminality. Maybe he was distracted by his personal life but he did nothing to try to prevent the bloodshed of the civil war. Grant's alcoholism was well known but downplayed by the media and General Sherman was as crazy as legend says. Sherman, Sheridan and the rest of the Union rapists and pillagers would have been hanged in a just world.

Lincoln was way ahead of his time in opposition to slavery. The Lincoln/Douglas debates were unprecedented
Grants alcoholism was overstated. He was known to drink when he was bored or inactive. While engaging in battle, he was sober
I think Sherman understood the nature of war more than anyone. It was not a noble cause, it was about death and destruction.

LOL. You just exposed yourself as a fool.

Dishonest Abe NEVER opposed slavery. In fact, he offered to ensconce it in the Constitution if the South stopped secession and paid the tariff.

You’d know this if you bothered to read his first inaugural speech.

How many times will it take before you learn?

View attachment 326924

Amazingly you still can’t spot a lying opportunist at your advanced age, even after I’ve schooled you for ten years.

You are going all goofy on us

The South seceded precisely because of Lincoln’s stated views on slavery. The election of Lincoln threw the South into a panic and they elected to secede and form a slave state rather than see what Lincoln may do about the slave issue

You are confusing things. Let’s not debate why the South seceded. That is an entirely different issue

The debate is did Dishonest Abe REALLY oppose slavery. Clearly he did not.

Guess what gramps, Trump isn’t the first politician to lie all the time.

You are still going all goofy on us.

Lincoln’s position on abolition was well established. He had opposed the institution for over a decade. Lincoln was the most abolitionist of any major candidate of that era.
So much so, the southern states seceded rather than be ruled by him

True. On the other hand, wouldn't be the first politician, that, once in office, didn't pursue a campaign promise that would be hard, AND he did talk a lot of shit about NOT being against slavery, when he was trying to avoid secession.

Once Lincoln assumed office, his priority was to do whatever necessary to preserve the Union, resolving slavery was secondary.

But once the war was underway and it was clear that the North would win, Lincoln made passing the 13th amendment a priority and acceptance a requirement for Southern States rejoining the union

The GOP platform of no new slave states, was an obvious long term strategy to end slavery.

Lincoln's attempts at diplomacy with the South, was an obvious attempt to get them to not take action, so that time would quickly undermine their already weak position.

That is not "secondary" that is just wanting to reduce the cost of achieving the goal, ie abolition.


And "long term" might not have been all that long. States were being added pretty quick back then.

Lincoln’s personal opposition to slavery was long established in both his public speeches and private correspondence

Politically, he was pragmatic. He had no expectations that he could end slavery with the stroke of the pen. Lincoln favored a process of gradual emancipation. He favored compensating slave owners for the loss of their slaves, having individual states gradually abandoning the practice.

The south would have been better off if they had not panicked

LOL. The cultist ALWAYS ignores uncomfortable facts about their beloved Dishonest Abe.

Years ago my son and I walked Pickett’s Charge. I thought WTF is wrong with Lee. How could he order such an idiotic assault? But then, his entire handling of the battle was nonsensical. It’s as if he lost his mind.

He was outnumbered, the enemy held the high ground, had tons of artillery perfectly placed, and Lee lacked his cavalry leading up to the battle and for the first day or so. How he could have thought a major engagement at Gettysburg was a good idea, is hard to fathom.

 

[rightwinger]

Some of these I already knew, but some suprised me.

Which ones surprised you?

That he was as opposed to slavery as he was and most of his family was pro-Union.

That is a Lost Cause myth....

The Myth of the Kindly General Lee

The legend of the Confederate leader’s heroism and decency is based in the fiction of a person who never existed.

www.theatlantic.com

When two of his slaves escaped and were recaptured, Lee either beat them himself or ordered the overseer to “lay it on well.” Wesley Norris, one of the slaves who was whipped, recalled that “not satisfied with simply lacerating our naked flesh, Gen. Lee then ordered the overseer to thoroughly wash our backs with brine, which was done.”

Lincoln is based on fiction. In reality he had the gift of a great quip but he was as racist as the next guy and an utterly confused politician who misjudged the confederacy to the point of criminality. Maybe he was distracted by his personal life but he did nothing to try to prevent the bloodshed of the civil war. Grant's alcoholism was well known but downplayed by the media and General Sherman was as crazy as legend says. Sherman, Sheridan and the rest of the Union rapists and pillagers would have been hanged in a just world.

Lincoln was way ahead of his time in opposition to slavery. The Lincoln/Douglas debates were unprecedented
Grants alcoholism was overstated. He was known to drink when he was bored or inactive. While engaging in battle, he was sober
I think Sherman understood the nature of war more than anyone. It was not a noble cause, it was about death and destruction.

LOL. You just exposed yourself as a fool.

Dishonest Abe NEVER opposed slavery. In fact, he offered to ensconce it in the Constitution if the South stopped secession and paid the tariff.

You’d know this if you bothered to read his first inaugural speech.

How many times will it take before you learn?

View attachment 326924

Amazingly you still can’t spot a lying opportunist at your advanced age, even after I’ve schooled you for ten years.

You are going all goofy on us

The South seceded precisely because of Lincoln’s stated views on slavery. The election of Lincoln threw the South into a panic and they elected to secede and form a slave state rather than see what Lincoln may do about the slave issue

You are confusing things. Let’s not debate why the South seceded. That is an entirely different issue

The debate is did Dishonest Abe REALLY oppose slavery. Clearly he did not.

Guess what gramps, Trump isn’t the first politician to lie all the time.

You are still going all goofy on us.

Lincoln’s position on abolition was well established. He had opposed the institution for over a decade. Lincoln was the most abolitionist of any major candidate of that era.
So much so, the southern states seceded rather than be ruled by him

True. On the other hand, wouldn't be the first politician, that, once in office, didn't pursue a campaign promise that would be hard, AND he did talk a lot of shit about NOT being against slavery, when he was trying to avoid secession.

Once Lincoln assumed office, his priority was to do whatever necessary to preserve the Union, resolving slavery was secondary.

But once the war was underway and it was clear that the North would win, Lincoln made passing the 13th amendment a priority and acceptance a requirement for Southern States rejoining the union

The GOP platform of no new slave states, was an obvious long term strategy to end slavery.

Lincoln's attempts at diplomacy with the South, was an obvious attempt to get them to not take action, so that time would quickly undermine their already weak position.

That is not "secondary" that is just wanting to reduce the cost of achieving the goal, ie abolition.


And "long term" might not have been all that long. States were being added pretty quick back then.

Lincoln’s personal opposition to slavery was long established in both his public speeches and private correspondence

Politically, he was pragmatic. He had no expectations that he could end slavery with the stroke of the pen. Lincoln favored a process of gradual emancipation. He favored compensating slave owners for the loss of their slaves, having individual states gradually abandoning the practice.

The south would have been better off if they had not panicked

LOL. The cultist ALWAYS ignores uncomfortable facts about their beloved Dishonest Abe.

Years ago my son and I walked Pickett’s Charge. I thought WTF is wrong with Lee. How could he order such an idiotic assault? But then, his entire handling of the battle was nonsensical. It’s as if he lost his mind.

He was outnumbered, the enemy held the high ground, had tons of artillery perfectly placed, and Lee lacked his cavalry leading up to the battle and for the first day or so. How he could have thought a major engagement at Gettysburg was a good idea, is hard to fathom.

Try walking Maryes Heights in Fredericksburg if you want to see an idiotic assault.
While Lee made one assault in Pickett’s Charge, Union forces sent wave after wave to try to dislodge Lee from Maryes Heights

 

[SmokeALib]

Some of these I already knew, but some suprised me.

Which ones surprised you?

That he was as opposed to slavery as he was and most of his family was pro-Union.

That is a Lost Cause myth....

The Myth of the Kindly General Lee

The legend of the Confederate leader’s heroism and decency is based in the fiction of a person who never existed.

www.theatlantic.com

When two of his slaves escaped and were recaptured, Lee either beat them himself or ordered the overseer to “lay it on well.” Wesley Norris, one of the slaves who was whipped, recalled that “not satisfied with simply lacerating our naked flesh, Gen. Lee then ordered the overseer to thoroughly wash our backs with brine, which was done.”

Lincoln is based on fiction. In reality he had the gift of a great quip but he was as racist as the next guy and an utterly confused politician who misjudged the confederacy to the point of criminality. Maybe he was distracted by his personal life but he did nothing to try to prevent the bloodshed of the civil war. Grant's alcoholism was well known but downplayed by the media and General Sherman was as crazy as legend says. Sherman, Sheridan and the rest of the Union rapists and pillagers would have been hanged in a just world.

Lincoln was way ahead of his time in opposition to slavery. The Lincoln/Douglas debates were unprecedented
Grants alcoholism was overstated. He was known to drink when he was bored or inactive. While engaging in battle, he was sober
I think Sherman understood the nature of war more than anyone. It was not a noble cause, it was about death and destruction.

LOL. You just exposed yourself as a fool.

Dishonest Abe NEVER opposed slavery. In fact, he offered to ensconce it in the Constitution if the South stopped secession and paid the tariff.

You’d know this if you bothered to read his first inaugural speech.

How many times will it take before you learn?

View attachment 326924

Amazingly you still can’t spot a lying opportunist at your advanced age, even after I’ve schooled you for ten years.

You are going all goofy on us

The South seceded precisely because of Lincoln’s stated views on slavery. The election of Lincoln threw the South into a panic and they elected to secede and form a slave state rather than see what Lincoln may do about the slave issue

You are confusing things. Let’s not debate why the South seceded. That is an entirely different issue

The debate is did Dishonest Abe REALLY oppose slavery. Clearly he did not.

Guess what gramps, Trump isn’t the first politician to lie all the time.

You are still going all goofy on us.

Lincoln’s position on abolition was well established. He had opposed the institution for over a decade. Lincoln was the most abolitionist of any major candidate of that era.
So much so, the southern states seceded rather than be ruled by him

True. On the other hand, wouldn't be the first politician, that, once in office, didn't pursue a campaign promise that would be hard, AND he did talk a lot of shit about NOT being against slavery, when he was trying to avoid secession.

Once Lincoln assumed office, his priority was to do whatever necessary to preserve the Union, resolving slavery was secondary.

But once the war was underway and it was clear that the North would win, Lincoln made passing the 13th amendment a priority and acceptance a requirement for Southern States rejoining the union

The GOP platform of no new slave states, was an obvious long term strategy to end slavery.

Lincoln's attempts at diplomacy with the South, was an obvious attempt to get them to not take action, so that time would quickly undermine their already weak position.

That is not "secondary" that is just wanting to reduce the cost of achieving the goal, ie abolition.


And "long term" might not have been all that long. States were being added pretty quick back then.

Lincoln’s personal opposition to slavery was long established in both his public speeches and private correspondence

Politically, he was pragmatic. He had no expectations that he could end slavery with the stroke of the pen. Lincoln favored a process of gradual emancipation. He favored compensating slave owners for the loss of their slaves, having individual states gradually abandoning the practice.

The south would have been better off if they had not panicked

LOL. The cultist ALWAYS ignores uncomfortable facts about their beloved Dishonest Abe.

Years ago my son and I walked Pickett’s Charge. I thought WTF is wrong with Lee. How could he order such an idiotic assault? But then, his entire handling of the battle was nonsensical. It’s as if he lost his mind.

He was outnumbered, the enemy held the high ground, had tons of artillery perfectly placed, and Lee lacked his cavalry leading up to the battle and for the first day or so. How he could have thought a major engagement at Gettysburg was a good idea, is hard to fathom.

Lee was never the same after losing Jackson.

 

[gipper]

Some of these I already knew, but some suprised me.

Which ones surprised you?

That he was as opposed to slavery as he was and most of his family was pro-Union.

That is a Lost Cause myth....

The Myth of the Kindly General Lee

The legend of the Confederate leader’s heroism and decency is based in the fiction of a person who never existed.

www.theatlantic.com

When two of his slaves escaped and were recaptured, Lee either beat them himself or ordered the overseer to “lay it on well.” Wesley Norris, one of the slaves who was whipped, recalled that “not satisfied with simply lacerating our naked flesh, Gen. Lee then ordered the overseer to thoroughly wash our backs with brine, which was done.”

Lincoln is based on fiction. In reality he had the gift of a great quip but he was as racist as the next guy and an utterly confused politician who misjudged the confederacy to the point of criminality. Maybe he was distracted by his personal life but he did nothing to try to prevent the bloodshed of the civil war. Grant's alcoholism was well known but downplayed by the media and General Sherman was as crazy as legend says. Sherman, Sheridan and the rest of the Union rapists and pillagers would have been hanged in a just world.

Lincoln was way ahead of his time in opposition to slavery. The Lincoln/Douglas debates were unprecedented
Grants alcoholism was overstated. He was known to drink when he was bored or inactive. While engaging in battle, he was sober
I think Sherman understood the nature of war more than anyone. It was not a noble cause, it was about death and destruction.

LOL. You just exposed yourself as a fool.

Dishonest Abe NEVER opposed slavery. In fact, he offered to ensconce it in the Constitution if the South stopped secession and paid the tariff.

You’d know this if you bothered to read his first inaugural speech.

How many times will it take before you learn?

View attachment 326924

Amazingly you still can’t spot a lying opportunist at your advanced age, even after I’ve schooled you for ten years.

You are going all goofy on us

The South seceded precisely because of Lincoln’s stated views on slavery. The election of Lincoln threw the South into a panic and they elected to secede and form a slave state rather than see what Lincoln may do about the slave issue

You are confusing things. Let’s not debate why the South seceded. That is an entirely different issue

The debate is did Dishonest Abe REALLY oppose slavery. Clearly he did not.

Guess what gramps, Trump isn’t the first politician to lie all the time.

You are still going all goofy on us.

Lincoln’s position on abolition was well established. He had opposed the institution for over a decade. Lincoln was the most abolitionist of any major candidate of that era.
So much so, the southern states seceded rather than be ruled by him

True. On the other hand, wouldn't be the first politician, that, once in office, didn't pursue a campaign promise that would be hard, AND he did talk a lot of shit about NOT being against slavery, when he was trying to avoid secession.

Once Lincoln assumed office, his priority was to do whatever necessary to preserve the Union, resolving slavery was secondary.

But once the war was underway and it was clear that the North would win, Lincoln made passing the 13th amendment a priority and acceptance a requirement for Southern States rejoining the union

The GOP platform of no new slave states, was an obvious long term strategy to end slavery.

Lincoln's attempts at diplomacy with the South, was an obvious attempt to get them to not take action, so that time would quickly undermine their already weak position.

That is not "secondary" that is just wanting to reduce the cost of achieving the goal, ie abolition.


And "long term" might not have been all that long. States were being added pretty quick back then.

Lincoln’s personal opposition to slavery was long established in both his public speeches and private correspondence

Politically, he was pragmatic. He had no expectations that he could end slavery with the stroke of the pen. Lincoln favored a process of gradual emancipation. He favored compensating slave owners for the loss of their slaves, having individual states gradually abandoning the practice.

The south would have been better off if they had not panicked

LOL. The cultist ALWAYS ignores uncomfortable facts about their beloved Dishonest Abe.

Years ago my son and I walked Pickett’s Charge. I thought WTF is wrong with Lee. How could he order such an idiotic assault? But then, his entire handling of the battle was nonsensical. It’s as if he lost his mind.

He was outnumbered, the enemy held the high ground, had tons of artillery perfectly placed, and Lee lacked his cavalry leading up to the battle and for the first day or so. How he could have thought a major engagement at Gettysburg was a good idea, is hard to fathom.

Lee was never the same after losing Jackson.

Very true.

 

[gipper]

Some of these I already knew, but some suprised me.

Which ones surprised you?

That he was as opposed to slavery as he was and most of his family was pro-Union.

That is a Lost Cause myth....

The Myth of the Kindly General Lee

The legend of the Confederate leader’s heroism and decency is based in the fiction of a person who never existed.

www.theatlantic.com

When two of his slaves escaped and were recaptured, Lee either beat them himself or ordered the overseer to “lay it on well.” Wesley Norris, one of the slaves who was whipped, recalled that “not satisfied with simply lacerating our naked flesh, Gen. Lee then ordered the overseer to thoroughly wash our backs with brine, which was done.”

Lincoln is based on fiction. In reality he had the gift of a great quip but he was as racist as the next guy and an utterly confused politician who misjudged the confederacy to the point of criminality. Maybe he was distracted by his personal life but he did nothing to try to prevent the bloodshed of the civil war. Grant's alcoholism was well known but downplayed by the media and General Sherman was as crazy as legend says. Sherman, Sheridan and the rest of the Union rapists and pillagers would have been hanged in a just world.

Lincoln was way ahead of his time in opposition to slavery. The Lincoln/Douglas debates were unprecedented
Grants alcoholism was overstated. He was known to drink when he was bored or inactive. While engaging in battle, he was sober
I think Sherman understood the nature of war more than anyone. It was not a noble cause, it was about death and destruction.

LOL. You just exposed yourself as a fool.

Dishonest Abe NEVER opposed slavery. In fact, he offered to ensconce it in the Constitution if the South stopped secession and paid the tariff.

You’d know this if you bothered to read his first inaugural speech.

How many times will it take before you learn?

View attachment 326924

Amazingly you still can’t spot a lying opportunist at your advanced age, even after I’ve schooled you for ten years.

You are going all goofy on us

The South seceded precisely because of Lincoln’s stated views on slavery. The election of Lincoln threw the South into a panic and they elected to secede and form a slave state rather than see what Lincoln may do about the slave issue

You are confusing things. Let’s not debate why the South seceded. That is an entirely different issue

The debate is did Dishonest Abe REALLY oppose slavery. Clearly he did not.

Guess what gramps, Trump isn’t the first politician to lie all the time.

You are still going all goofy on us.

Lincoln’s position on abolition was well established. He had opposed the institution for over a decade. Lincoln was the most abolitionist of any major candidate of that era.
So much so, the southern states seceded rather than be ruled by him

True. On the other hand, wouldn't be the first politician, that, once in office, didn't pursue a campaign promise that would be hard, AND he did talk a lot of shit about NOT being against slavery, when he was trying to avoid secession.

Once Lincoln assumed office, his priority was to do whatever necessary to preserve the Union, resolving slavery was secondary.

But once the war was underway and it was clear that the North would win, Lincoln made passing the 13th amendment a priority and acceptance a requirement for Southern States rejoining the union

The GOP platform of no new slave states, was an obvious long term strategy to end slavery.

Lincoln's attempts at diplomacy with the South, was an obvious attempt to get them to not take action, so that time would quickly undermine their already weak position.

That is not "secondary" that is just wanting to reduce the cost of achieving the goal, ie abolition.


And "long term" might not have been all that long. States were being added pretty quick back then.

Lincoln’s personal opposition to slavery was long established in both his public speeches and private correspondence

Politically, he was pragmatic. He had no expectations that he could end slavery with the stroke of the pen. Lincoln favored a process of gradual emancipation. He favored compensating slave owners for the loss of their slaves, having individual states gradually abandoning the practice.

The south would have been better off if they had not panicked

LOL. The cultist ALWAYS ignores uncomfortable facts about their beloved Dishonest Abe.

Years ago my son and I walked Pickett’s Charge. I thought WTF is wrong with Lee. How could he order such an idiotic assault? But then, his entire handling of the battle was nonsensical. It’s as if he lost his mind.

He was outnumbered, the enemy held the high ground, had tons of artillery perfectly placed, and Lee lacked his cavalry leading up to the battle and for the first day or so. How he could have thought a major engagement at Gettysburg was a good idea, is hard to fathom.

Try walking Maryes Heights in Fredericksburg if you want to see an idiotic assault.
While Lee made one assault in Pickett’s Charge, Union forces sent waive after waive to try to dislodge Lee from Maryes Heights

I’ve done that too.

You’re right for once, that was even more dumb. Incompetent generals cost lives. Just like incompetent presidents like Dishonest Abe fuck things up.

 

[Correll]

Some of these I already knew, but some suprised me.

Which ones surprised you?

That he was as opposed to slavery as he was and most of his family was pro-Union.

That is a Lost Cause myth....

The Myth of the Kindly General Lee

The legend of the Confederate leader’s heroism and decency is based in the fiction of a person who never existed.

www.theatlantic.com

When two of his slaves escaped and were recaptured, Lee either beat them himself or ordered the overseer to “lay it on well.” Wesley Norris, one of the slaves who was whipped, recalled that “not satisfied with simply lacerating our naked flesh, Gen. Lee then ordered the overseer to thoroughly wash our backs with brine, which was done.”

Lincoln is based on fiction. In reality he had the gift of a great quip but he was as racist as the next guy and an utterly confused politician who misjudged the confederacy to the point of criminality. Maybe he was distracted by his personal life but he did nothing to try to prevent the bloodshed of the civil war. Grant's alcoholism was well known but downplayed by the media and General Sherman was as crazy as legend says. Sherman, Sheridan and the rest of the Union rapists and pillagers would have been hanged in a just world.

Lincoln was way ahead of his time in opposition to slavery. The Lincoln/Douglas debates were unprecedented
Grants alcoholism was overstated. He was known to drink when he was bored or inactive. While engaging in battle, he was sober
I think Sherman understood the nature of war more than anyone. It was not a noble cause, it was about death and destruction.

LOL. You just exposed yourself as a fool.

Dishonest Abe NEVER opposed slavery. In fact, he offered to ensconce it in the Constitution if the South stopped secession and paid the tariff.

You’d know this if you bothered to read his first inaugural speech.

How many times will it take before you learn?

View attachment 326924

Amazingly you still can’t spot a lying opportunist at your advanced age, even after I’ve schooled you for ten years.

You are going all goofy on us

The South seceded precisely because of Lincoln’s stated views on slavery. The election of Lincoln threw the South into a panic and they elected to secede and form a slave state rather than see what Lincoln may do about the slave issue

You are confusing things. Let’s not debate why the South seceded. That is an entirely different issue

The debate is did Dishonest Abe REALLY oppose slavery. Clearly he did not.

Guess what gramps, Trump isn’t the first politician to lie all the time.

You are still going all goofy on us.

Lincoln’s position on abolition was well established. He had opposed the institution for over a decade. Lincoln was the most abolitionist of any major candidate of that era.
So much so, the southern states seceded rather than be ruled by him

True. On the other hand, wouldn't be the first politician, that, once in office, didn't pursue a campaign promise that would be hard, AND he did talk a lot of shit about NOT being against slavery, when he was trying to avoid secession.

Once Lincoln assumed office, his priority was to do whatever necessary to preserve the Union, resolving slavery was secondary.

But once the war was underway and it was clear that the North would win, Lincoln made passing the 13th amendment a priority and acceptance a requirement for Southern States rejoining the union

The GOP platform of no new slave states, was an obvious long term strategy to end slavery.

Lincoln's attempts at diplomacy with the South, was an obvious attempt to get them to not take action, so that time would quickly undermine their already weak position.

That is not "secondary" that is just wanting to reduce the cost of achieving the goal, ie abolition.


And "long term" might not have been all that long. States were being added pretty quick back then.

Lincoln’s personal opposition to slavery was long established in both his public speeches and private correspondence

Politically, he was pragmatic. He had no expectations that he could end slavery with the stroke of the pen. Lincoln favored a process of gradual emancipation. He favored compensating slave owners for the loss of their slaves, having individual states gradually abandoning the practice.

The south would have been better off if they had not panicked

Their way of life was built on the Plantation System, and they saw that dying, within their lifetimes.

Calling it panic, is easy to do.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

To take the measure of Robert E. Lee — and even more Abraham Lincoln — requires seeing them in historical context. Any fool can take a snippet of a quote here, take a fact out of context there ... to make a wild charge.

The “Lost Cause” arguments that see Lincoln as a monster or a dictator who was never against slavery, that argue the essential cause of the war was a difference over “tariffs” or “states rights” and NOT over slavery and all its consequences, these can be rejected out of hand. Those arguments are childish, like saying every Southerner was consciously fighting for slavery, that Robert E. Lee was a coward and traitor who did not see himself as a patriot, that black people all loved their masters, or that not any did.

The great abolitionist preacher “Sojourner Truth,” even she as a young mistress “loved” and diligently and proudly served her Old Dutch Hudson Valley plantation master. He gave her children while his wife fumed. But years later she left that master, and when he went after her she sued him and won freedom in NY courts. She had been sold several times, separated from her parents and family, lost her brothers and sisters, seen her African lover beaten near to death, her little boy taken from her and abused. Yet she had once loved that old master of hers.

She was just an illiterate black woman, who could cook and plow and sew and serve, but she became a great abolitionist heroine, invited to meet Abraham Lincoln at the White House. Her grandchildren served in the Union Army. She was respected by all the famous abolitionists, white and black, free and “self-emancipated.” Frederick Douglass and John Brown were both inspired by her example. Before the war, she had hushed and stayed the arms of more than one threatening mob of rock wielding whites, as she traveled all over the North and West, moving hearts like no other. A very religious woman, with a fiery tongue and a wicked sense of humor.

I’m reading a long biography about her life now. She lived into the 1880s I think, ever a reformer. Haven’t finished it yet. I wonder what she would have said about Robert E. Lee.

 

[Correll]

To take the measure of Robert E. Lee — and even more Abraham Lincoln — requires seeing them in historical context. Any fool can take a snippet of a quote here, take a fact out of context there ... to make a wild charge.

The “Lost Cause” arguments that see Lincoln as a monster or a dictator who was never against slavery, that argue the essential cause of the war was a difference over “tariffs” or “states rights” and NOT over slavery and all its consequences, these can be rejected out of hand. Those arguments are childish, like saying every Southerner was consciously fighting for slavery, that Robert E. Lee was a coward and traitor who did not see himself as a patriot, that black people all loved their masters, or that not any did.

The great abolitionist preacher “Sojourner Truth,” even she as a young mistress “loved” and diligently and proudly served her Old Dutch Hudson Valley plantation master. He gave her children while his wife fumed. But years later she left that master, and when he went after her she sued him and won freedom in NY courts. She had been sold several times, separated from her parents and family, lost her brothers and sisters, seen her African lover beaten near to death, her little boy taken from her and abused. Yet she had once loved that old master of hers.

She was just an illiterate black woman, who could cook and plow and sew and serve, but she became a great abolitionist heroine, invited to meet Abraham Lincoln at the White House. Her grandchildren served in the Union Army. She was respected by all the famous abolitionists, white and black, free and “self-emancipated.” Frederick Douglass and John Brown were both inspired by her example. Before the war, she had hushed and stayed the arms of more than one threatening mob of rock wielding whites, as she traveled all over the North and West, moving hearts like no other. A very religious woman, with a fiery tongue and a wicked sense of humor.

I’m reading a long biography about her life now. She lived into the 1880s I think, ever a reformer. Haven’t finished it yet. I wonder what she would have said about Robert E. Lee.

I would like to hear that too.

I appreciate that you included in your list of childish arguments, that "Lee as a coward or a traitor...".

 

[rightwinger]

Some of these I already knew, but some suprised me.

Which ones surprised you?

That he was as opposed to slavery as he was and most of his family was pro-Union.

That is a Lost Cause myth....

The Myth of the Kindly General Lee

The legend of the Confederate leader’s heroism and decency is based in the fiction of a person who never existed.

www.theatlantic.com

When two of his slaves escaped and were recaptured, Lee either beat them himself or ordered the overseer to “lay it on well.” Wesley Norris, one of the slaves who was whipped, recalled that “not satisfied with simply lacerating our naked flesh, Gen. Lee then ordered the overseer to thoroughly wash our backs with brine, which was done.”

Lincoln is based on fiction. In reality he had the gift of a great quip but he was as racist as the next guy and an utterly confused politician who misjudged the confederacy to the point of criminality. Maybe he was distracted by his personal life but he did nothing to try to prevent the bloodshed of the civil war. Grant's alcoholism was well known but downplayed by the media and General Sherman was as crazy as legend says. Sherman, Sheridan and the rest of the Union rapists and pillagers would have been hanged in a just world.

Lincoln was way ahead of his time in opposition to slavery. The Lincoln/Douglas debates were unprecedented
Grants alcoholism was overstated. He was known to drink when he was bored or inactive. While engaging in battle, he was sober
I think Sherman understood the nature of war more than anyone. It was not a noble cause, it was about death and destruction.

LOL. You just exposed yourself as a fool.

Dishonest Abe NEVER opposed slavery. In fact, he offered to ensconce it in the Constitution if the South stopped secession and paid the tariff.

You’d know this if you bothered to read his first inaugural speech.

How many times will it take before you learn?

View attachment 326924

Amazingly you still can’t spot a lying opportunist at your advanced age, even after I’ve schooled you for ten years.

You are going all goofy on us

The South seceded precisely because of Lincoln’s stated views on slavery. The election of Lincoln threw the South into a panic and they elected to secede and form a slave state rather than see what Lincoln may do about the slave issue

You are confusing things. Let’s not debate why the South seceded. That is an entirely different issue

The debate is did Dishonest Abe REALLY oppose slavery. Clearly he did not.

Guess what gramps, Trump isn’t the first politician to lie all the time.

You are still going all goofy on us.

Lincoln’s position on abolition was well established. He had opposed the institution for over a decade. Lincoln was the most abolitionist of any major candidate of that era.
So much so, the southern states seceded rather than be ruled by him

True. On the other hand, wouldn't be the first politician, that, once in office, didn't pursue a campaign promise that would be hard, AND he did talk a lot of shit about NOT being against slavery, when he was trying to avoid secession.

Once Lincoln assumed office, his priority was to do whatever necessary to preserve the Union, resolving slavery was secondary.

But once the war was underway and it was clear that the North would win, Lincoln made passing the 13th amendment a priority and acceptance a requirement for Southern States rejoining the union

The GOP platform of no new slave states, was an obvious long term strategy to end slavery.

Lincoln's attempts at diplomacy with the South, was an obvious attempt to get them to not take action, so that time would quickly undermine their already weak position.

That is not "secondary" that is just wanting to reduce the cost of achieving the goal, ie abolition.


And "long term" might not have been all that long. States were being added pretty quick back then.

Lincoln’s personal opposition to slavery was long established in both his public speeches and private correspondence

Politically, he was pragmatic. He had no expectations that he could end slavery with the stroke of the pen. Lincoln favored a process of gradual emancipation. He favored compensating slave owners for the loss of their slaves, having individual states gradually abandoning the practice.

The south would have been better off if they had not panicked

Their way of life was built on the Plantation System, and they saw that dying, within their lifetimes.

Calling it panic, is easy to do.

They saw it dying
That was one of the reasons they created the Confederacy. To ensure free labor for their plantations

 

[Correll]

Some of these I already knew, but some suprised me.

Which ones surprised you?

That he was as opposed to slavery as he was and most of his family was pro-Union.

That is a Lost Cause myth....

The Myth of the Kindly General Lee

The legend of the Confederate leader’s heroism and decency is based in the fiction of a person who never existed.

www.theatlantic.com

When two of his slaves escaped and were recaptured, Lee either beat them himself or ordered the overseer to “lay it on well.” Wesley Norris, one of the slaves who was whipped, recalled that “not satisfied with simply lacerating our naked flesh, Gen. Lee then ordered the overseer to thoroughly wash our backs with brine, which was done.”

Lincoln is based on fiction. In reality he had the gift of a great quip but he was as racist as the next guy and an utterly confused politician who misjudged the confederacy to the point of criminality. Maybe he was distracted by his personal life but he did nothing to try to prevent the bloodshed of the civil war. Grant's alcoholism was well known but downplayed by the media and General Sherman was as crazy as legend says. Sherman, Sheridan and the rest of the Union rapists and pillagers would have been hanged in a just world.

Lincoln was way ahead of his time in opposition to slavery. The Lincoln/Douglas debates were unprecedented
Grants alcoholism was overstated. He was known to drink when he was bored or inactive. While engaging in battle, he was sober
I think Sherman understood the nature of war more than anyone. It was not a noble cause, it was about death and destruction.

LOL. You just exposed yourself as a fool.

Dishonest Abe NEVER opposed slavery. In fact, he offered to ensconce it in the Constitution if the South stopped secession and paid the tariff.

You’d know this if you bothered to read his first inaugural speech.

How many times will it take before you learn?

View attachment 326924

Amazingly you still can’t spot a lying opportunist at your advanced age, even after I’ve schooled you for ten years.

You are going all goofy on us

The South seceded precisely because of Lincoln’s stated views on slavery. The election of Lincoln threw the South into a panic and they elected to secede and form a slave state rather than see what Lincoln may do about the slave issue

You are confusing things. Let’s not debate why the South seceded. That is an entirely different issue

The debate is did Dishonest Abe REALLY oppose slavery. Clearly he did not.

Guess what gramps, Trump isn’t the first politician to lie all the time.

You are still going all goofy on us.

Lincoln’s position on abolition was well established. He had opposed the institution for over a decade. Lincoln was the most abolitionist of any major candidate of that era.
So much so, the southern states seceded rather than be ruled by him

True. On the other hand, wouldn't be the first politician, that, once in office, didn't pursue a campaign promise that would be hard, AND he did talk a lot of shit about NOT being against slavery, when he was trying to avoid secession.

Once Lincoln assumed office, his priority was to do whatever necessary to preserve the Union, resolving slavery was secondary.

But once the war was underway and it was clear that the North would win, Lincoln made passing the 13th amendment a priority and acceptance a requirement for Southern States rejoining the union

The GOP platform of no new slave states, was an obvious long term strategy to end slavery.

Lincoln's attempts at diplomacy with the South, was an obvious attempt to get them to not take action, so that time would quickly undermine their already weak position.

That is not "secondary" that is just wanting to reduce the cost of achieving the goal, ie abolition.


And "long term" might not have been all that long. States were being added pretty quick back then.

Lincoln’s personal opposition to slavery was long established in both his public speeches and private correspondence

Politically, he was pragmatic. He had no expectations that he could end slavery with the stroke of the pen. Lincoln favored a process of gradual emancipation. He favored compensating slave owners for the loss of their slaves, having individual states gradually abandoning the practice.

The south would have been better off if they had not panicked

Their way of life was built on the Plantation System, and they saw that dying, within their lifetimes.

Calling it panic, is easy to do.

They saw it dying
That was one of the reasons they created the Confederacy. To ensure free labor for their plantations

If Lincoln has been honest about his intent, do you think he could have won the election?

 

[gipper]

To take the measure of Robert E. Lee — and even more Abraham Lincoln — requires seeing them in historical context. Any fool can take a snippet of a quote here, take a fact out of context there ... to make a wild charge.

The “Lost Cause” arguments that see Lincoln as a monster or a dictator who was never against slavery, that argue the essential cause of the war was a difference over “tariffs” or “states rights” and NOT over slavery and all its consequences, these can be rejected out of hand. Those arguments are childish, like saying every Southerner was consciously fighting for slavery, that Robert E. Lee was a coward and traitor who did not see himself as a patriot, that black people all loved their masters, or that not any did.

The great abolitionist preacher “Sojourner Truth,” even she as a young mistress “loved” and diligently and proudly served her Old Dutch Hudson Valley plantation master. He gave her children while his wife fumed. But years later she left that master, and when he went after her she sued him and won freedom in NY courts. She had been sold several times, separated from her parents and family, lost her brothers and sisters, seen her African lover beaten near to death, her little boy taken from her and abused. Yet she had once loved that old master of hers.

She was just an illiterate black woman, who could cook and plow and sew and serve, but she became a great abolitionist heroine, invited to meet Abraham Lincoln at the White House. Her grandchildren served in the Union Army. She was respected by all the famous abolitionists, white and black, free and “self-emancipated.” Frederick Douglass and John Brown were both inspired by her example. Before the war, she had hushed and stayed the arms of more than one threatening mob of rock wielding whites, as she traveled all over the North and West, moving hearts like no other. A very religious woman, with a fiery tongue and a wicked sense of humor.

I’m reading a long biography about her life now. She lived into the 1880s I think, ever a reformer. Haven’t finished it yet. I wonder what she would have said about Robert E. Lee.

She was born into slavery. Guess where?

Rifton New York...wtf!

 

[SmokeALib]

Some of these I already knew, but some suprised me.

Which ones surprised you?

That he was as opposed to slavery as he was and most of his family was pro-Union.

That is a Lost Cause myth....

The Myth of the Kindly General Lee

The legend of the Confederate leader’s heroism and decency is based in the fiction of a person who never existed.

www.theatlantic.com

When two of his slaves escaped and were recaptured, Lee either beat them himself or ordered the overseer to “lay it on well.” Wesley Norris, one of the slaves who was whipped, recalled that “not satisfied with simply lacerating our naked flesh, Gen. Lee then ordered the overseer to thoroughly wash our backs with brine, which was done.”

Lincoln is based on fiction. In reality he had the gift of a great quip but he was as racist as the next guy and an utterly confused politician who misjudged the confederacy to the point of criminality. Maybe he was distracted by his personal life but he did nothing to try to prevent the bloodshed of the civil war. Grant's alcoholism was well known but downplayed by the media and General Sherman was as crazy as legend says. Sherman, Sheridan and the rest of the Union rapists and pillagers would have been hanged in a just world.

Lincoln was way ahead of his time in opposition to slavery. The Lincoln/Douglas debates were unprecedented
Grants alcoholism was overstated. He was known to drink when he was bored or inactive. While engaging in battle, he was sober
I think Sherman understood the nature of war more than anyone. It was not a noble cause, it was about death and destruction.

LOL. You just exposed yourself as a fool.

Dishonest Abe NEVER opposed slavery. In fact, he offered to ensconce it in the Constitution if the South stopped secession and paid the tariff.

You’d know this if you bothered to read his first inaugural speech.

How many times will it take before you learn?

View attachment 326924

Amazingly you still can’t spot a lying opportunist at your advanced age, even after I’ve schooled you for ten years.

You are going all goofy on us

The South seceded precisely because of Lincoln’s stated views on slavery. The election of Lincoln threw the South into a panic and they elected to secede and form a slave state rather than see what Lincoln may do about the slave issue

You are confusing things. Let’s not debate why the South seceded. That is an entirely different issue

The debate is did Dishonest Abe REALLY oppose slavery. Clearly he did not.

Guess what gramps, Trump isn’t the first politician to lie all the time.

You are still going all goofy on us.

Lincoln’s position on abolition was well established. He had opposed the institution for over a decade. Lincoln was the most abolitionist of any major candidate of that era.
So much so, the southern states seceded rather than be ruled by him

True. On the other hand, wouldn't be the first politician, that, once in office, didn't pursue a campaign promise that would be hard, AND he did talk a lot of shit about NOT being against slavery, when he was trying to avoid secession.

Once Lincoln assumed office, his priority was to do whatever necessary to preserve the Union, resolving slavery was secondary.

But once the war was underway and it was clear that the North would win, Lincoln made passing the 13th amendment a priority and acceptance a requirement for Southern States rejoining the union

Well, once the war was under way, it was not clear the north would win. For the 1st couple years, the south was winning bigly. It wasn't until they ventured north of Virginia (Antietam, Gettysburg) after losing Jackson at Chancellorsville that they started losing. Chancellorsville was a huge victory for the south, and some argue that Antietam was close to a draw (Lee retreated, however). The north could had wiped out Lee's army at that time, but elected not to go after him.

 

[Correll]

Some of these I already knew, but some suprised me.

Which ones surprised you?

That he was as opposed to slavery as he was and most of his family was pro-Union.

That is a Lost Cause myth....

The Myth of the Kindly General Lee

The legend of the Confederate leader’s heroism and decency is based in the fiction of a person who never existed.

www.theatlantic.com

When two of his slaves escaped and were recaptured, Lee either beat them himself or ordered the overseer to “lay it on well.” Wesley Norris, one of the slaves who was whipped, recalled that “not satisfied with simply lacerating our naked flesh, Gen. Lee then ordered the overseer to thoroughly wash our backs with brine, which was done.”

Lincoln is based on fiction. In reality he had the gift of a great quip but he was as racist as the next guy and an utterly confused politician who misjudged the confederacy to the point of criminality. Maybe he was distracted by his personal life but he did nothing to try to prevent the bloodshed of the civil war. Grant's alcoholism was well known but downplayed by the media and General Sherman was as crazy as legend says. Sherman, Sheridan and the rest of the Union rapists and pillagers would have been hanged in a just world.

Lincoln was way ahead of his time in opposition to slavery. The Lincoln/Douglas debates were unprecedented
Grants alcoholism was overstated. He was known to drink when he was bored or inactive. While engaging in battle, he was sober
I think Sherman understood the nature of war more than anyone. It was not a noble cause, it was about death and destruction.

LOL. You just exposed yourself as a fool.

Dishonest Abe NEVER opposed slavery. In fact, he offered to ensconce it in the Constitution if the South stopped secession and paid the tariff.

You’d know this if you bothered to read his first inaugural speech.

How many times will it take before you learn?

View attachment 326924

Amazingly you still can’t spot a lying opportunist at your advanced age, even after I’ve schooled you for ten years.

You are going all goofy on us

The South seceded precisely because of Lincoln’s stated views on slavery. The election of Lincoln threw the South into a panic and they elected to secede and form a slave state rather than see what Lincoln may do about the slave issue

You are confusing things. Let’s not debate why the South seceded. That is an entirely different issue

The debate is did Dishonest Abe REALLY oppose slavery. Clearly he did not.

Guess what gramps, Trump isn’t the first politician to lie all the time.

You are still going all goofy on us.

Lincoln’s position on abolition was well established. He had opposed the institution for over a decade. Lincoln was the most abolitionist of any major candidate of that era.
So much so, the southern states seceded rather than be ruled by him

True. On the other hand, wouldn't be the first politician, that, once in office, didn't pursue a campaign promise that would be hard, AND he did talk a lot of shit about NOT being against slavery, when he was trying to avoid secession.

Once Lincoln assumed office, his priority was to do whatever necessary to preserve the Union, resolving slavery was secondary.

But once the war was underway and it was clear that the North would win, Lincoln made passing the 13th amendment a priority and acceptance a requirement for Southern States rejoining the union

Well, once the war was under way, it was not clear the north would win. For the 1st couple years, the south was winning bigly. It wasn't until they ventured north of Virginia (Antietam, Gettysburg) after losing Jackson at Chancellorsville that they started losing. Chancellorsville was a huge victory for the south, and some argue that Antietam was close to a draw (Lee retreated, however). The north could had wiped out Lee's army at that time, but elected not to go after him.

Indeed, a more realpolitic Britain, might have wanted to see America split into two, to reduce a potential rival.

 

[SmokeALib]

Some of these I already knew, but some suprised me.

Which ones surprised you?

That he was as opposed to slavery as he was and most of his family was pro-Union.

That is a Lost Cause myth....

The Myth of the Kindly General Lee

The legend of the Confederate leader’s heroism and decency is based in the fiction of a person who never existed.

www.theatlantic.com

When two of his slaves escaped and were recaptured, Lee either beat them himself or ordered the overseer to “lay it on well.” Wesley Norris, one of the slaves who was whipped, recalled that “not satisfied with simply lacerating our naked flesh, Gen. Lee then ordered the overseer to thoroughly wash our backs with brine, which was done.”

Lincoln is based on fiction. In reality he had the gift of a great quip but he was as racist as the next guy and an utterly confused politician who misjudged the confederacy to the point of criminality. Maybe he was distracted by his personal life but he did nothing to try to prevent the bloodshed of the civil war. Grant's alcoholism was well known but downplayed by the media and General Sherman was as crazy as legend says. Sherman, Sheridan and the rest of the Union rapists and pillagers would have been hanged in a just world.

Lincoln was way ahead of his time in opposition to slavery. The Lincoln/Douglas debates were unprecedented
Grants alcoholism was overstated. He was known to drink when he was bored or inactive. While engaging in battle, he was sober
I think Sherman understood the nature of war more than anyone. It was not a noble cause, it was about death and destruction.

LOL. You just exposed yourself as a fool.

Dishonest Abe NEVER opposed slavery. In fact, he offered to ensconce it in the Constitution if the South stopped secession and paid the tariff.

You’d know this if you bothered to read his first inaugural speech.

How many times will it take before you learn?

View attachment 326924

Amazingly you still can’t spot a lying opportunist at your advanced age, even after I’ve schooled you for ten years.

You are going all goofy on us

The South seceded precisely because of Lincoln’s stated views on slavery. The election of Lincoln threw the South into a panic and they elected to secede and form a slave state rather than see what Lincoln may do about the slave issue

You are confusing things. Let’s not debate why the South seceded. That is an entirely different issue

The debate is did Dishonest Abe REALLY oppose slavery. Clearly he did not.

Guess what gramps, Trump isn’t the first politician to lie all the time.

You are still going all goofy on us.

Lincoln’s position on abolition was well established. He had opposed the institution for over a decade. Lincoln was the most abolitionist of any major candidate of that era.
So much so, the southern states seceded rather than be ruled by him

True. On the other hand, wouldn't be the first politician, that, once in office, didn't pursue a campaign promise that would be hard, AND he did talk a lot of shit about NOT being against slavery, when he was trying to avoid secession.

Once Lincoln assumed office, his priority was to do whatever necessary to preserve the Union, resolving slavery was secondary.

But once the war was underway and it was clear that the North would win, Lincoln made passing the 13th amendment a priority and acceptance a requirement for Southern States rejoining the union

Well, once the war was under way, it was not clear the north would win. For the 1st couple years, the south was winning bigly. It wasn't until they ventured north of Virginia (Antietam, Gettysburg) after losing Jackson at Chancellorsville that they started losing. Chancellorsville was a huge victory for the south, and some argue that Antietam was close to a draw (Lee retreated, however). The north could had wiped out Lee's army at that time, but elected not to go after him.

Indeed, a more realpolitic Britain, might have wanted to see America split into two, to reduce a potential rival.

Who's to say why McClellan elected not to go after Lee at his most vulnerable (retreat). My vote goes to McClellan was inept.

 

[rightwinger]

Some of these I already knew, but some suprised me.

Which ones surprised you?

That he was as opposed to slavery as he was and most of his family was pro-Union.

That is a Lost Cause myth....

The Myth of the Kindly General Lee

The legend of the Confederate leader’s heroism and decency is based in the fiction of a person who never existed.

www.theatlantic.com

When two of his slaves escaped and were recaptured, Lee either beat them himself or ordered the overseer to “lay it on well.” Wesley Norris, one of the slaves who was whipped, recalled that “not satisfied with simply lacerating our naked flesh, Gen. Lee then ordered the overseer to thoroughly wash our backs with brine, which was done.”

Lincoln is based on fiction. In reality he had the gift of a great quip but he was as racist as the next guy and an utterly confused politician who misjudged the confederacy to the point of criminality. Maybe he was distracted by his personal life but he did nothing to try to prevent the bloodshed of the civil war. Grant's alcoholism was well known but downplayed by the media and General Sherman was as crazy as legend says. Sherman, Sheridan and the rest of the Union rapists and pillagers would have been hanged in a just world.

Lincoln was way ahead of his time in opposition to slavery. The Lincoln/Douglas debates were unprecedented
Grants alcoholism was overstated. He was known to drink when he was bored or inactive. While engaging in battle, he was sober
I think Sherman understood the nature of war more than anyone. It was not a noble cause, it was about death and destruction.

LOL. You just exposed yourself as a fool.

Dishonest Abe NEVER opposed slavery. In fact, he offered to ensconce it in the Constitution if the South stopped secession and paid the tariff.

You’d know this if you bothered to read his first inaugural speech.

How many times will it take before you learn?

View attachment 326924

Amazingly you still can’t spot a lying opportunist at your advanced age, even after I’ve schooled you for ten years.

You are going all goofy on us

The South seceded precisely because of Lincoln’s stated views on slavery. The election of Lincoln threw the South into a panic and they elected to secede and form a slave state rather than see what Lincoln may do about the slave issue

You are confusing things. Let’s not debate why the South seceded. That is an entirely different issue

The debate is did Dishonest Abe REALLY oppose slavery. Clearly he did not.

Guess what gramps, Trump isn’t the first politician to lie all the time.

You are still going all goofy on us.

Lincoln’s position on abolition was well established. He had opposed the institution for over a decade. Lincoln was the most abolitionist of any major candidate of that era.
So much so, the southern states seceded rather than be ruled by him

True. On the other hand, wouldn't be the first politician, that, once in office, didn't pursue a campaign promise that would be hard, AND he did talk a lot of shit about NOT being against slavery, when he was trying to avoid secession.

Once Lincoln assumed office, his priority was to do whatever necessary to preserve the Union, resolving slavery was secondary.

But once the war was underway and it was clear that the North would win, Lincoln made passing the 13th amendment a priority and acceptance a requirement for Southern States rejoining the union

Well, once the war was under way, it was not clear the north would win. For the 1st couple years, the south was winning bigly. It wasn't until they ventured north of Virginia (Antietam, Gettysburg) after losing Jackson at Chancellorsville that they started losing. Chancellorsville was a huge victory for the south, and some argue that Antietam was close to a draw (Lee retreated, however). The north could had wiped out Lee's army at that time, but elected not to go after him.

Well, it wasn’t that the South was winning but that they were not losing. The Union was still taking the war to them and had effectively blockaded their ports.
A win for the North was conquering the South
A win for the South was always a cessation of conflict.